gone to making their seat bases as part of the top hull mold? I was just at the boat show and noticed that all the other big builders (mastercraft, naughty, tige) are doing it. I was just curious about it. Is there some advantage to doing it malibu way? I think the all fiberglass seats look better and would guess they are stronger.

Because you ask....because they CAN'T. The best thing BU does is HIDE what they can't do. The floors in a BU are a honeycomb metal. Basically METAL cardboard. There seat bases are anchored with screws. The floors are multiple pieces of a jigsaw puzzle that have a single piece of fiberglass laminate that hold them together before it is placed in the boat. <BR> <BR>Here are a couple of photos to show how the seat is screwed to the floor and also how the floor is mutiple pieces. <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/538652.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/538653.jpg" alt="Upload">

That is a good question Mike. The one piece fiberglass top seems like a no brainer. Take it from someone with 1200 hours on a 6 year old boat. Malibu seats dont last. The staples used to carpet (hide) the seats just rust and eventually fall out. Also, the screws and brackets used to hold the bases down are steel (not stainless), so they rusted out too.

BU HOO. Yes Malibu's do not last. Its a hole in the water surrounded by fiberglass that you dump your money into

more than one way to skin a cat fellas. If you were number one in the industry why would you copy something the people in second place are doing?

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> Classic

Sure would be nice to be able to pull the boat completely apart to run new cable, clean/replace carpets, fix faulty parts etc...

Why is it that the MC guys are so quick to jump in and "help" explain why Malibu's aren't built the "right" way?

Mike, <BR> <BR>What FACTS that are presented are not the TRUTH, at least the MALITRUTH? Why can't you Malibu guys accept the TRUTH when it is laid out right in front of you. These photos are right from the Malibu website. No one has said that your boat is a POS. You getting all defensive only proves that you guys are on the defense. "Hey dude its just as good as a MasterCraft" If you have to say that...it isn't. <BR> <BR>MattC...not to pick on you. #1 in in boat sales or #1 in TOTAL revenue? Better get your facts straight also.

TK- We get defensive when you're around because all you ever do is troll around bashing any brand but MC(primarily Malibu). <BR>Oh and #1 in sales Malibu doesn't like to bend people over on their prices like MC with their <BR>X-1 and so on.

TK what does it matter? Does it bother you in some way? Just wondering what the point is? Malibu has the lead in market share. If I can save 15-20K by having my seats screwed into the deck I'll take it. I personally like wall to wall carpet instead of wall to wall fiberglass. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on January 27, 2008) <BR> <BR>(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on January 27, 2008)

^^^ Agreed- And have had both. Our 05 Centurion was snap out carpet and I didn't like it as much. Seems more plush being carpet, and we have a carpet saver. Basically a rug same as our carpet to go over our floor in the boat so spills are no biggy. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by tyboarder03 on January 27, 2008)

Every time a person posts on this discussion board they are building their reputation. Those who bash a particular brand, product, person, etc. on a consistent basis with obvious malice, are only hurting their own credibility and that of the brand, product, person, etc. they "represent." <BR> <BR>Rather than getting in a pissing match with such people and putting yourself in the same category, take the higher ground and contribute content to the discussion board which actually helps other members. Brand wars help nobody and make those involved look like insecure haters. <BR> <BR>As you were...

All I can say is that MasterCraft must be the best because that is what the pro tour uses!!! <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>Or maybe Tige is the best because that is the boat used in the Worlds... <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>No... definitely Supra.... Gravity Games.... <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>Sorry... correction.... Centurian... World WakeSurf Championships... <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>Hmmm... really confused.... Maybe BU is the best... because they are the official WakeWorld Boat.... <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>I really dont know...

Wow TK, talk about getting defensive! I never said those aren't Malibu pics...who the @#$% cares if they are? My comment was directed at you as a very helpful MC owner who has pictures all ready to post as "proof" that Malibu's aren't as good as MC's. What is your agenda bro?

So do ya sell MC's TK? Is that what this is about? Quick search of your posts and dude, you are so ready to bash Malibu. It's Bay Area Watersports, right? Build your reputation carefully.

Not too sure I understand the question in the thread? Does Malibu just screw the base into the floor or into some sort of backing built into the floor?

Maybe it's because they offer the dual captains chair configuration or ? Who know's, I'm sure they have their reason and it seems to work for them.

production costs.a fiberglass floor requires a 3th mold.More labour - resin etc.Malibu floors are bonded into the hull and covered up with carpet,it,s cheaper and a lot faster to build.

there are several covert MC dealers on here that are quick to bash other boats. <BR> <BR>most of us just ignore them

IMPO there is no good reason. i think malibu just sticks to their old way even though its not as good. tige also bonds the the hull and deck together with fiberglass not just screwed together like everyone else does. i feel this is also a better way to build a boat. yes its more work and cost more thats why malibu sticks with just screwing in the seat bases. wich is subpar in my book. i am not bashing bu i am just stating i would rather have a boat with molded in seat bases and i also like the fact that tige bonds the two halves of the boat together with more than just screws. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by kko13 on January 27, 2008)

Thanks Dave, for the voice of reason. I am pretty proud to be the owner of ANY boat. I just happen to have a Malibu <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

Everyone else only screws in the two decks? Not everyone. <BR> <BR>So basically they slap down a base and just start screwing into the floor w/o any backing? I guess the true test is that its been working for them and so why change it. Especially if its going to cost more and take more time. They really like getting the most boats out per week. <BR> <BR>All I know is that my boat has a fat, thick backing built into the floor deck. Seriously though has Malibu been having people drop to the floor when they gun it? It works fine right.

Never had a seat break, and I've never heard of one breaking. What does it matter how they are built as long as it works? If you go with the molded seat bases, then you have to deal with numberous spider cracks which doesn't look very classy.

Getting back to the point of the thread...Leo says that the way Malibu does it is not durable...but he is the first I have ever heard of with that problem. <BR> <BR>Leo, you live in Louisiana and often see some brackish or salt water, right? Anyone have this problem with a Bu used only in fresh water? <BR> <BR>(Message edited by talltigeguy on January 27, 2008)

Matt, the seat didn't break. The seat bases are some type of HDPE with carpet either glued or stapled in. The glue is coming undone on the engine cover and the back seat, thus the carpet is falling off in some spots. All of the staples on the seats and engine cover are rusted and will fall out at various times and we will get them stuck in our feet. <BR> <BR>Talltige, the water we ride in is brackish, but very unoticeable. Most people who have never ridden in our area cant even tell the water is brackish. Even to the taste you can barely tell. The engine looks pretty good for 1200 hours. Nothing like an engine used in salt water with the same hours. Also, after doing a lot of work on this boat, I will verify that malibu does not use backing plates. I think I am probably a rare case. I dont know many people who have put over 1000 hours on a 6 year old boat.

This part cracks me up, "The floors in a BU are a honeycomb metal. Basically METAL cardboard." Ha!! Any idea of another instance where aluminum honeycomb is used? Airplane wings, hmm last I checked the aerospace engineers knew something about strength in relation to weight. Cardboard my ass. <BR> <BR>This guy is a dealer in CA? Certainly solves one future option, thanks for making the choice easier TK.

Aluminum honeycomb is also the main structural ingredient in Indy cars and Champ Cars. If you can crash it into a concrete wall at 200+ mph, and walk away, that would constitute a strong material...

Oh TK way to stoop buddy, this will get you some sales.

Was at a boat show today and looked at malibu and MC. I like both boats, but did notice the malibu salesman talked about his boat and it's features. The mastercraft salesman immediately talked about how his boat was built better than a malibu. I wasn't put off, but definitely two different style of salesmanship. I haven't decided if the MC is worth the extra money yet.

I have a BU and personally like the way the seating looks. Im not much for the molded seat frames, Looks kinda cheap, or not as clean. Not sure which one would be stronger but I doubt I would ever have a problem with either design.

I am guess that malibu fiberglass both sides of the honeycomb? <BR> <BR>When I worked at Lockheed Martin, we were building parts for boeing this way. Definately strong compared to weight. I really dont think its that necessary on a boat though. Still a nice concept.

Big Heavy...not San Francisco Bay area, but somewhere in Florida.

Like David says, it is pretty simple to see what you are about with posts like this. The bashing MC owners (no matter the attempt at subtlety) is a definite sign that you are either not happy with your purchase, or just need to prove your choice of boats is better than the market leader. <BR> <BR>What's funny is I rarely see Supra, Tige, Sanger, CC, or any other owners that love to rip on BU like MC. Maybe it's just the perception, but the old saying goes, perception is reality.

Malibu floors are NOT Alloy honeycomb. They are fiberglass, bonded to the hull and stringer system. <BR>There was a time when Malibu used a honeycomb on certain areas of the floor (Ski lockers mainly) It has changed to CNC'd HDPE <BR> <BR>Every part down to the emblims are made of Stainless. If something is rusting, that would constitute a bad run of stainless, or brakish water. <BR> <BR>Malibu Chooses to build the seats the way they do from a maintenance, and appearance aspect. It holds up incredibly well, is quite solid, looks a million times more plush, and with carpet savers, will look great from years to come.

Kinda sorry i asked, didn't mean to start a big argument.

I own mastercraft (07 xstar) now and owned a malibu (05 vlx) right before. Both are great boats, although my seat did fall out in the Malibu..hahaha j.k. To bash either maker is ridiculous, i've had both and both are great boats.

Ponyh8r, <BR> <BR>Don't apologize. I have heard this as a criticism of Malibu before. Obviously, I think the Tige is what has worked best for me. Now I have heard of 1 instance where Malibu's seat construction method failed. He used the boat a lot and in some water that is obviously going to be tough on any metal parts. <BR> <BR>I conclude that if I buy another boat, I sure as heck would not stay away from the bu because of the way they build their seats.

I like Malibus. I've enjoyed every minute I've spent in &amp; behind one. <BR>Personally I'm glad I have friends with other brands of boats, it's nice to have a variety.

I heart them both <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

I'm an MC guy for many reasons. I don't think most boat owners regardless of what they have go around boasting theirs is the best (in public I mean). this might sound stupid but i have encountered a few that do and it is really annoying. i have an Xstar, great, cool, most people don't care, but when that guy comes up and says, "huh, second best behind....." It is frustrating when you actually know the differences between the boats not what mfs/dealers will tell you. I don't let it really get to me because who cares really. but there are differences, some that don't matter, some that do. Bu's have come a long long way, good boat really. So have other brands, supras/moomba from what I tell, but there is still a difference and to say there isn't well...call it what you will...wrong/dumb. as it relates to the point of the thread, it would make the structural integrity of the boat better...period. it would also cost a lot to do so, which is why they don't...seems like most others do now though from what I've seen.

The deck and the hull of the boat are actualy held together by a product called weld-on. It is a substance that chemicaly bonds the deck and the hull together. their are a few other companies out their that use a similar process, but their are some that use only screw to hold the two peices together. The seat base has nothing to do with the structural integrity of the boat itself. I sold MC, supra, and moomba for five years and now sell BU. I have never gained or lost a deal because of seat bases... Each compnay does what they feel works best for them. With that being said, you as the consumer have the right to decide which brand you roll with.....

A boat is a boat is a boat. Can you have fun in it?? I'm sold.

Thank you Bret...well said.

Cant people just be friends, I am an MC guy, and maybe one day when I'm older i will have a bu, or a supra, I love the looks of supras and if I cant afford an x-star when I'm older like I have now, or a bu, I will go for a Supra. I love all the boats. My friend has a bu and I love it, not as much as my boat, but there is no way I would ever bash any other boat make. I'm 16 and there are 30 to 40 year olds all over this forum bashing on other brands like 2nd graders do. Either way, MC and BU are both amazing boats and they hold their own. I would be happy to own either.

Even though TK you are an MC guy and I am too, stop bashing other brands, they all rock, and just because you have one brand doesnt mean every other one blows, your 40 or something and your like a 2 year old saying my bikes cooler! your bike sucks! Act like a 40 year old please, not a 2 year old.

AWSOME! that was well said and from someone who is only 16! Rock On!

Anyone who is affiliated in any way with a company in this industry should have the integrity and class to include that affiliation in their profile.

Thanks scooter, yes I am 16 lol, arent adults supposed to be the mature role models?? and not 2 year olds? I have a 9 year old brother who does everything I do, EVERYTHING, I started him young in motocross, snowboarding, and wakeboarding, and surfing, but even when one of his friends says they got a yamaha or suzuki (he rides honda and loves honda) or a type of boat, even if its bayliner, he says wow cool! even though we may have a different make or even a nicer whatever it is.

Twitch swagga, I agree. Everyone has their own opinion and thats what makes everyone unique. I bought a BU cause I like the way they look and always have. I think every boat has its pros and cons and what someone likes is what is best for them. If they are happy then thats all that matters...

wouldn't that suck if TK lost his job at his precious MC dealership and the only other place in town to work was a Malibu dealership.... <BR> <BR>I sell Malibu as well as several other lines. I could care less which line I sell as long as my bills are paid and my kid isn't hungry. <BR> <BR>It says a TON about a salesman that can't sell his product but instead bashes another out of desperation. <BR>As a salesman you should know that 70% of the deal is selling yourself as well as the other 30% being being the brand you sell, and your knowledge of it. <BR> <BR>carry on TK. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by baschralper on January 30, 2008)

Exactly scooter. TK needs to chill, act his age, act like a presentable adult representing MC as something he likes and prefers, which is what he thinks, rather then its the best and nothing tops it.

A factory tour of both plants, back-to-back will sum this one up. To understand the diff between MC and Malibu build processes, you need to see it 1st hand. The MC build process is much more impressive and extensive than Malibu!!! Why would one say Malibu is the leader? Well that depends on what your definition of a leader is. Just because Malibu has the market share(by a very slim margin) does not make them the best in that market.

been there done that multiple times as have several on this board. There are differences, but each person decides which is better. It looks as if more people chose malibu.

who cares! they both are nice boats. and truthfully how many of you are gonna have the boat for more than 5 years. I know i am on my second boat in 2 years.. i tend to trade up every year or two. this which boat is better is stupid it is funny how a 16 year old has been more mature than most in this thread. lets get one thing straight no matter what boat you have its better than not having one.

explain slim margin? <BR> <BR>show me the difference between the two brands on actual SOLD registered units in the world. <BR>Not how many were produced, how many are sitting in their customers homes right now.

Bayliner is the market share leader everywhere. <BR> <BR>However, they are not the best because of it. <BR> <BR>MC, BU, CC are all quality boats with different features and styles that benefit or appeal to different people. <BR>I am def a MC fan as you can tell by my past posts on here, I do have "owner goggles" as every other boat owner on here does and so deserves to after paying a lot of money for their choice of boat. <BR>Even as well spoken as David Williams is, he has "BU owners goggles" as he should, he gets a free boat. <BR>Also as far as everyone having the class or integrity to put the real info on their profile, GOOD LUCK.

Bayliner is not market share leader. <BR> <BR>If you look at numbers, it's pretty crazy. <BR> <BR>The Best selling 23' Fiberglass Boat in the USA is the 23' wakesetter/sunscape from Malibu. That is going up against the likes of Sea Ray, and Chaparral <BR> <BR>The 3rd best selling 21' Fiberglass boat in the world is the VLX/21LSV Behind Chaparral, and Sea Ray. This is a much more competitive segment

Who cares about market share? Really, I don't think much of it. Toyota has market share in the US, just behind GM, but I would rather have a Lambo or Benz.

Larzon, people on here are saying Bu is number one in market share for Wakeboat/ski boats in total numbers, so that should make them the best. My point is Bayliner as a company sells way more boats than BU, MC combined, but that does not make them better.

How about everyone has the right to like what they want. I have a Malibu, but it won't stop me from riding behind a MC, or a Supra or anything else. Every boat has pros and cons, it's the individual's choice in the end. Who cares who sells more boats either. It's always a pissing contest....it really disappoints me that it always comes to this. How about this, buy what you like or can afford, and have fun, and piss on anyone who doesn't like your choice. <BR> <BR>By the way, my six year old Bu is far from falling apart.....in fact, it would be hard to tell from showroom new.

I like the floors on MC, so easy to keep up... My wife on the other hand says it looks like a school bus!!!! Everybody has different opinions. Having a bu the last five years, I'd say the floor has room for improvement. My seat on the other hand has functioned perfectly.

They may not last long (I trade every year so I do not care) But while they are running and still together (yea right) it has the best WAKE of any boat. LOL <BR>Just my opinion.

Mike asked a question. I hope that he got an answer...amony various unsolicited opinions.

it is completely about production processes that have been refined over years and years of boat building. some started one way and have spent 30 years getting better at it, some build it other ways and have even 80 years of doing it that way. Others fell right in the middle and seem to keep growing. technology changed a few times along the way and each boat company gained its benefits. versatility in the build process i am sure has its perks (ie vlx's and xti's sharing molds) but the strength of a deck that is reinforced by the hull might stand the test of time a little better. maintenance, could way in to the deal. cost of warranties to replace the gas tank? do you remove the center of the floor, or maybe the engine or even the entire deck? once again they each have their benefits, and at the end of the day you pay for them. i don't have a boat right now, and i can't wait to get my new one. so bias is no issue for me i am just a huge fan of the industry and the sport. mike i hope i helped with your question. and i hope that the patriots and giants both lose!

Just curious, what companies have been building boats the same way for 80 years?

<a href="http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/indin-ot/factory.gif" target="_blank">http://www.wcha.org/catalogs/indin-ot/factory.gif</a> <BR> <BR>they have been making boats for 80+ years, just no motors

<a href="http://www.nautiques.com/AboutUs.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.nautiques.com/AboutUs.aspx</a> <BR> <BR>i didn't mean it literally, i am just making the point that this industry has been evolving for a long time

I'm an MC guy, and I've got a big problem with other boat dealers bashing any kind of boats to sell their own. if you can't sell your boat on features alone, or even comparison alone, then you're a bad salesman. and there is a huge difference between comparing and bashing a BU next to a MC. I love my Mastercraft, and I love Mastercrafts in general, but they are not for everyone. My buddy has a LSV, and I love that boat to, so classy, and the lines are so clean! It's all personal preference. I believe in my boat enough to sell it by features and standards alone, there is no need to bash someone else. At the boat show, we had a few people come up to us turned off by another boat brand's sales pitch because everything they said seemed to be anti-MC. I've never heard of an MC dealer turning this around and bashing a BU, or a Tige, or a CC, but I'm sure it's happened! <BR> <BR>I love MC boats, and I love CC boats, I'll take an X-Star, or an 03 210 anyday, but the day you invite me to come and hang on your bu, tige, supra, moomba, whatever, I'm not goin to deny it! That's not what this sport is about. Surfing is the most pure watersport because you eliminate all the garbage and choices that people have between gear and equipment. I know we're never going to get rid of all the companies, but we could take a lesson from the surf community as to the fact that we're only on this earth for so long, let's enjoy it, shred it up, and make some friends!!