Hey Bryan, would love to come out and see/ride your wave in person.. unfortunately I don't live on a coast. <BR> <BR>Jos, Have you ever tried wakesurfing with rollers when you're setting up for an aerial? Not much fun.. definitely throws off your trick , if not completely off of the wave. <BR> <BR>And if this "if you're riding your wakeboard in the chop and you get inside the wake the chop goes away. How is surfing behind the boat different? You're still riding water that just got run over by the boat... " is the case then why are the wakeboarders complaining?

rob, anytime buddy, i have taught lots of people how to surf, even a couple from WW. it wont be 10' your first time out but once you catch a real wave you will probably sell your boat and move to the coast, lol. <BR> <BR>you dont set up for a wake jump behind the boat. and you dont carve into the flats on a wakesurf.

Since most everyone seems to be bashing... <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712349.jpg" alt="Upload">

Hahahaha I like that shirt lol ...I need to get that for my dad!

Jimmy_z, <BR> <BR>Now that's funny man! <BR>How the hell did all those surf pics show up on a wakesurf/wakeboard thread? That's even funnier <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/smile.gif" border=0>

I am not a fan of surfing, personnally, but if the people surfing do what my buddies do, it really isn't a problem. The trick is to stay some what close to shore 25 - 50 feet away from shore and point the surf wake to the shoreline this leaves the butter on the main side for everyone else, skiers and wakeboarders.

i get so pumped when i see a skier throw down a sick left turn. but nothing gets me more stoked then when they come back a throw a right turn to top it off. <BR> <BR>i like that shirt though...

This debate is the something that went on when i was living in Squaw Valley Ski Area &amp; they let this sport called Snowboarding on the hill for a trial period i think in the late 80s lol Skiers were tripping for the first few yr. The skiers would say the snowboarders make to many big turns &amp; jack up all the fresh powder or they would say boarders cant see on backside turns but we got over it fast .If u ride big mountains now days how cares.I Ski &amp; some of my friends Snowboard so what we all have fun ripping the hill u just need a bigger lake like Lake Don Pedro Ca were we go .I also Wakeboard &amp; Wakesurf and grow up water skiing.My point is cant we just get along<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>

Except wakesurfing isn't a sport, it's rehab or something for the old knees to feel good about.

looks like we all have to stop surfing now because Bryan is a real surfer and we can't possibly be surfing, even though we are on a stick and riding a wave(it doesn't count)

^^^^ Yet you say that riding a wakeboard at a cable park is not wakeboarding........

If I post a picture can I also pretend to be an authority <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712435.jpg" alt="Upload">

Someday I will live next to an ocean but until then, I am going to surf behind my boat! I learned how to surf in Hawaii a few years ago and was just dying to be able to do it as much as possible but unfortunately I live in Colorado. I was already addicted to wakeboarding and then discovered wakesurfing. I still love the adrenaline rush that wakeboarding delivers but past 10am on my local lakes wakeboarding isn't fun, it's hard work! <BR> <BR>I don't see how wakesurfing is messing up the water anymore than a 3,000 lb loaded down X-Star for wakeboarding. If you've ever been in the water waiting for the boat to pull you up and have a loaded down boat drive by you, you know what I mean! You're sitting in rollers, big ones! We all have to share!

I think it has more to do with surfing messing up the 'water table' or whatever, which means that along with putting rollers out to the sides of the boat, the long stretch behind the surfer is rolling due to not being on plane. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I've been saying this for a couple of years now. Wakesurfing destroys the water for everyone, as far as the eye can see. No surfing on our boat either.

Inigo your in your mid to late 30s now right???. You may find yourself jacked up 1 day &amp; your not getting younger so u going to kick it on the shore or rip it up wakesurfing ??? but wakesufings not a sport dont trip just rip<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712442.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712443.jpg" alt="Upload">

Yeah, there's a difference, at least, on the delta there is. Follow a loaded wakeboard boat with a rider.....you can ride a couple hundred yards back as the wake moves out to the shore and disapates. Now try that with a surf boat. The wakes don't travel out to shore, they follow the boat, seemingly forever and somehow travel though the tullies to ruin the other side also. <BR> <BR>I've shown up on Vics to find both sides rolled out, and only one boat to be found....a surf boat. Now you've got one boat owning the set of two sloughs that could normally be tubed, wakeboarded, or skied by as many as 10 boats. <BR> <BR>You should do whatever makes you happy on the water. It just sucks that surfing wrecks the water so bad.

J-Rod that was my whole point when I was biatching about them destroying a lake. The roller created do forever, out from the boat and straight behind it. Horrible.

Awww how we come full circle. 10 years ago this thread would be skiers talking about wakeboarders.

I am right there with you J-Rod and Andy. Been there seen that. <BR> <BR>I also find it comical that people think that because they travel to a spot where someone LIVES they have as much of a right to it as the locals. Seriously? The person living there made sacrifices to make that work. A perfect example is Brentwood/Disco Bay. There is not much work in the immediate area and its a relatively small community. The people living there made that sacrifice to ride those local waterways. They likely commute very often and are not afforded the luxuries of a big city...yet its cool for you to come rolling in from your comfy pad into their turf and exclaim how you have an equal right to the waterways....that's a serious case of entitlement right there.

Laird Hamilton wakesurfs.... <BR> <BR>Probably not true but I wanted to be the 100th post

It is frustrating not getting good wakeboard water but the ONLY thing you can really do about it is bitch on the internet or complain about with your friends. Don't care if it is tubers, PWCs, or surfers we all know that on public lakes there is really nothing you can do about it other than find the spots or times where you can get the clean water. Ohh I guess some of you feel that if someone is wrecking your hallowed water you can intimidate the other boaters with salutes or some profane music, sending them big waves, or thump your chest that you are more macho than their crew and if you are one of those all I got to say is THANKS for being a jerk so I too can enjoy the wrath of other boaters because I have wakeboards in my racks. <BR> <BR>Yeah I get ticked too when I can't get the water I want because some other boat is doing X Y or Z, but try not let it ruin my day. It will be less frustrating if you take the "join them rather than hate them" attitude.

It is hard to hate on wakesurfing if you were around for the original wakeboard v. ski battles. It is totally and completely hypocritical. That being said, I HATE wakesurfing. It's the arguments people were making about wakeboarding on steroids...big wakes and inexperience (probably somewhat true)...where wsurfers are ALSO more likely to turn while doing it (or drive in circles), far more likely to be inexperienced/less knowledgeable (scientifically proven to increase powerturn likelihood by 310%), and more likely to throw rollers every which way even if they know what they are doing (see Vics example above). Experienced wakeboarders and skiers can coexist by driving together in straight lines...not so much with wsurfers. <BR> <BR>Anyhow, to each their own...but I sure wish wakesurfing remained something you'd see Byerly do in a video and not on 5 boats every evening ruining the one patch of good local water. <BR> <BR>P.S. I saw a very vocal opponent of wakesurfing hanging at a local lake, surfboard in tow last night! It's okay, come out of the wakesurf closet...

Vince, I've already blown out both knees and would sell my boat before I took up wakesurfing. It just ruins the water in every direction for everyone. <BR> <BR>Surfing in the middle of the day, I could care less, but don't kill the morning butter or the only wind blocked cove. But like you've all said 1st come first serve. Just not on my boat.

I'll wakesurf just to piss you snobs off...too funny!

Disco Bay, got it. Thanks M-Dizzle, now I know where to go when everywhere else is thrashed. <BR> <BR>edit: also wakesurfing wouldn't even be possible if wakeboarders didn't invent internal ballats and fat sack to artificially make <b>their</b> wakes bigger. I don't recall many fisherman, skiers, and hotboaters being stoked on it but <b>that</b> was OK because it wasn't being done to you. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by CAskimmer on July 02, 2009)

I dont kill the morning butter on the Delta i go to Lake Don Pedro were theres lots of room 4 all there + I am a Wakeboarder 2 so i can see somewhat were u r comin from its like snowboarding boreal ski area the Delta or Squaw Valley - Lake Don Pedro U just need more room

what frustrating is that on the delta there will be one boat surfing a slough and THATS IT!!! multiple boats pulling skiers, tubers, riders, etc could get along in that same channel but due to the rollers created not even another surf boat will occupy the same clough... <BR> <BR>now thats weak

I too am not a fan of surfing in the butter. I won't allow it behind my boat, but obviously can't expect others to do the same. I myself, am an Equal Opportunity Hater (lol)! It irritates me if any non-wakeboarder riding boat rolls into the butter when they see someone already there wakeboarding. It's easy to share a line with a wakeboard boat, but just not possible with any other activity. If the non-wakeboarder riders are there first, good for them to beat me to it! If I'm there first and they roll in, I don't get angry....just irritated. I just succumb to the fact that the day suddenly turned into a hang out day vs. riding. I would never encroach upon the barefooters or slalom skiers, and it just puzzles me that others don't show the same courtesy in return. <BR> <BR>PS I felt the same way about respecting others/sharing the water before coming over from the dark side! (Former slalom skier that didn't appreciate wakeboard rollers screwing up the good water if I was there first!) At least now we have a common source of irritation for both skiers and wakeboarders! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>

Speaking of snowboarding I wonder how many people preaching "locals only" snowboard or ski at resorts they don't live at? and do they wait until noon so the people who live there can enjoy the powder?

Kat, I agree. We always stay away from the slalom and barefoot guys, especially if they beat us to the butter.

I need to Rodney King this thread. <BR> <BR>"Can't we all just get along." <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712487.jpg" alt="Upload">

as long as you stop telling me what I can or cannot do and where I can do it. <BR> <BR>I've been a water sports enthusiast since before wakeboarding existed, have respect for everyone on the water and go out of my way to do so. I expect nothing less but the same in return and don't take kindly to others telling me what to do.

You can wakesurf all you want behind my boat....as long as its blown out, or chopped up. <BR> <BR>I ride on a small lake that is maybe 3 miles long, and 1 boat that is wakesurfing can F the entire lake up! We went out the other night to find butter as far as the eye could see. we dropped the boat in with big smiles on our faces, and loaded up. I got in for a butta set....made the first turn and saw the lake had gone to s**t from 1 other boat wakesurfing....They wrecked the lake for 2 hours...

I got my own boat so I don't need to ride behind yours but thanks for the offer

And the wakesurfers were probably bitchin about u 2 u dont have 1000s of # of ballast on your boat jackin up the water WTF wakesurfers like glass to this topic could go on 4 ever. long live the free and brave. happy 4th all <BR> <BR>(Message edited by valsurfer on July 02, 2009)

Thats weird, whenever I wakesurf its only because its too rough to wakeboard. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by benj_t on July 02, 2009)

I do both and 4 so reason if u<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0> just wakeboard you rule the water quite bitchin wakesurfers r not doin to disappear even through u wish they would some deal when ski resorts let snowboarders on the hill people got over it

I get about 30-35 days a year out on the water, and believe me, I don't care if my activities are ruining your water. Really, I don't care. I have limited time to get in whatever fun I can. If the water sucks, I wakesurf or tube. If it's glassy, I Roam it. Slight rippled or chop, I wakeboard. Rollers or no rollers, I am having a good time. <BR> <BR>Sounds to me like a lot of you are spoiled with great water all of the time. How often do you wakeboard in 6" windblown chop??? Happens to me nearly every weekend. I venture a guess that most of you won't even go out when it's like that. <BR> <BR>This gets my vote for "Most Pathetic Thread of the Year"

Gettysburg Pa<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/smile.gif" border=0> <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712500.jpg" alt="Upload">

I can't get into it either. I surfed and grew up in Hawaii (rocky point, backdoors, pipes, Sunset, Alligator Rocks, Waimea point, Chuns, Left Overs, Log Cabins, V-lands) and the occasional South breaks. Now that I moved to Arizona and miss my surf time, I tried it behind the boat last year and hated it. It was so boring. Now that I wake up and have the boat on the lake about 20 minutes before sunrise, I see some surfing already in the glass water and it KILLS me. What's really great is when the wakesurfer falls and they power turn haul a$$ back to go pick them up. WTF! Stay in the open areas!! <BR> <BR>But hey, I guess everyone feels they disserve good water. I'm just speaking out loud here. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

That sounds like lame driving when i wakesurf i go in neutral and kill the wave &amp; slowly come around but i have seen wakeboarders do the samething power turn .See the flag and what it stands 4 freedom.I use to bitch about Illegal Alien in California but its a waste of time they r not going to go away so i focus on the positive in life it makes u feel a whole lot better.Just shout up &amp; ride <BR> <BR>(Message edited by valsurfer on July 02, 2009)

keith sweet photo on profile

If someone is already riding a particular zone then I'll go somewhere else but if I'm there 1st then I'm not going anywhere. I really don't care if anyone else likes it or not. If you have a problem with it, well that's your problem.

F**king Hilariou the whole way thru

Thanks Vince! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

keith, wow what a tuff move that must have been.

it was so "tuff" that I flew like superman! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0>

Difficult to power turn with 1800lbs of ballast on one side of your boat, If you don't stop, add little reverse and turn around in your own wake you will chilli dip the bow. <BR> <BR>"Dat dem der boat has a flat tire"

When I get out early and throw some wakeboard sets guess who I piss off? All the fisherman on the lake that were there before me. I get irritated when my boat gets thrown off list from choppy water and I'm surfing because of whatever the hell everyone else is doing be it wakeboarding, tubing, other surfer's, jets skis or the damn wind. Get the F over yourselves you self involved, delusional jackass'.

This goes out to all my wakeboard bros, <BR>skiers, knee boarders, skateboarders, snowboarders, tubers, fishermen, PWC'ers, real surfers and well, yes, even to those "pesky" wakesurfers that everyone seems to claim are hosing up all the butter. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1svVMFwaOw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1svVMFwaOw</a> <BR> <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/kiss.gif" border=0>

Yo, Vince, <BR>I dig the Flag picture, very nice. <BR>Can I use it?

Dennis yes its a photo i took

Dang, feel the love. <BR> <BR>I really like wakesurfing but like everything you have to be considerate and not be a muppet. At our local spot we have a bay we head into and drive round and round in circles so we don't throw our waves down the arms. "Surf bay"

locals at the delta<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>. this isnt surfing.

Vic's needs a Locals only sign on both ends! haha It should read "LOCALS ONLY! NO POWER TURNS, NO TUBES, NO WAKESURFING, NO TOOLS!!" haha <BR> <BR>I don't hate Wakesurfing on lakes. I don't hate it if you do it in chop. But in nice water its a whole dif story!! I can't stand it!! I don't buy the you can't wakesurf good if the water is bad. My lil bro is the best wakesurfer I have seen just out on the water. He does airs, 360, 720, and pop shuvs. Never once has he wakesurfed in good water!! Always in chop. Oh and about 90% of the ppl wreckin the water can't even drop the rope! So do they really need glass??? Not hatin, just hate havin the only non windy spot useless cuz of one boat!

where is this Vic's spot? i just got a new wake surf board and this place sounds perfect to try it out.

Theres a time and place for wakesurfing, and its definitely not up the arm of the river at bullards bar ruining the water for everyone. bastages <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/angry.gif" border=0>

whats the problem if you wait your rollers to be completly off before turning to pick up your surfers ?

cuz the problem is not the wake you are surfin. The problem is what it does to the water behind the boat. Have you never came up behind a boat thats wakesurfing? For atleast a 1/2 mile behind the boat there is big rollers. Its from the boat goin that speed. Next time you are surfing. look behind your boat about 100ft. you will see about 3 bigger roller between your boat and that 100 ft. well those keep goin on and on and on. so any one behind you will have to deal with that. the whole distance you have been surfing! It SUCK on the delta cuz when its only 500ft wide you can't just go around. you have to deal with it till you can pass <BR> <BR>(Message edited by bigpapaf1f on July 03, 2009)

WAAAAAAAHHHHHH. I don't like them. WAAAAAAHHHHHH<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>

Nick and I wakesurfed the hell out of bald eagle yesterday....all day, from like noon to eight, then wakeboarded when the wind died down at eight. Killer day...on bald eagle...wakesurfing and wakeboarding...

"then wakeboarded when the wind died down" <BR> <BR>exactly!!!!!!!

Sounds like everyone from the Delta needs a box of tissues - get over it. There is always going to be somebody out there to ruin epic water whether it is jetski idiots or somebody enjoying a surf set. Again get over it

I especially like the pretentious attitude coming from Joe seeing that he's privately emailed my sister several times asking to go <b>wakesurfing</b> behind her boat.

The very core of this argument couldn't be more hypocritical. I keep seeing "as long as it doesn't affect the rights of others to enjoy the water" but that's exactly what you're doing by telling people when or where they can surf. You have a much better chance of having a good time in chop than someone in their living room. We pay the same taxes as you and our boats are just as expensive. We have just as much right to that butter as you do. <BR> <BR>It's a tired, hypocritical argument and nobody is going to take you serious. I'm all about respecting others rights and like I said everyone I know goes out of their way to ensure so but I'm not about to go riding at noon to appease a bunch of uptight people. I don't care what you think, you're rights don't supersede mine. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by CAskimmer on July 03, 2009)

How is it hypocritical?? We try to keep the water nice. If i was bit*hin about this then goin out in powerturnin and messin up the water. That would make me hypocritical. But I don't, I try and keep the water nice for everyone. You can wakesurf anywhere. Why do you have to go to the glass to wakesurf? Im not sayin to not go to the glass. Just don't surf or tube in the butter!! Lets say there is 5 or 10 boats wakeboardin &amp; sking on a spot like vics. The water is still great. Then one boat can come and roll it out. Now one boat f-ed up everything for everyone else! You don't think thats wrong of that surfer?? I just don't think thats right when they can go to a spot where there is no other boats try to wakeboard or ski. If they do that everyone is happy. They get to surf, and everyone else still gets to enjoy there day.

I like to surf at the end of the day when I am too tired to take another set. We try to be aware of who is around and what they are doing. I try to steer clear of docked boats, boarders, fisherman and anybody else who is trying to enjoy the water.

Guess what its not your own personal private lake. get over yourselves. But go ahead and rant and rave an worsen the reputation of wakeboarding

Andy, <BR>Since you ride for O'Brien stop them from making wakesurf boards. <BR>While you are at it make sure that <a href="http://www.the-house.com" target="_blank">http://www.the-house.com</a> which you list as your home url quits selling wakesurf boards. It might help with the crowds on your lake. In fact here is a picture of me wakesurfing a pink door on a "butter" day check the background. Did not see a wakeboarder in sight all day should we have just sat in the boat and waited.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712810.jpg" alt="Upload">

If I'm there 1st then I'm not going anywhere. Nothing you can do or say about it. <BR> <BR>and where are all these people doing powerturns while wakesurfing? I personally don't see it happening or how it can even really be as widespread as you claim. For 1 we never get above 10mph (and are 15ft away from the boat instead of 80ft) and if I don't immediately kill the boat before turning at full list it's going to put a boatload of water down my bow and eventually destroy the hull. Not very likely to happen to anyone more than a couple times before they learn. <BR> <BR>Thank god this is America and my rights are just as protected as yours <BR> <BR>(Message edited by CAskimmer on July 03, 2009)

Reason why I'm so passionate about this <BR> <BR>Years back here in San Diego we were told by the wakeboarders to go to El Cap to surf (because at the time the back wasn't opened yet and the place was always chop). Thing is we actually did and for the next 4 years the surf boats outnumbered wakeboarders at least 2 to 1 with usually more then that. Well now that San V is closed and El Cap is the only game in town we're seeing this same attitude there as well and it's BS.

live by the sword, die by the sword. I've signed more than 1 rider contract in my life and there's usually very specific language about what you can and cannot publicly do. <BR> <BR>It has nothing to do about "feelings" or the internet. I just don't like people telling me what to do. <BR> <BR>edit: and if that's not in his contract then he has nothing to worry about <BR> <BR>(Message edited by CAskimmer on July 03, 2009) <BR> <BR>(Message edited by CAskimmer on July 03, 2009)

ah so your one of those kind of guys...... nuff said.

If Andy catches flack from any of his sponsors for things he said then he shouldn't have said it. You can't throw someone in front of a bus if they're already laying in the middle of the street

apparently you're one of those guys too

so you can speak your mind freely but others cant without you crying about it. your basically being........well, a taddle tail,

ah no, im not righting a letter to anyone because i dont like you. ill just tell you and leave it at that.

if vic's put up "locals only" signs on both ends, where's the cie crew gonna ride?

exactly, I'm not representing companies catering to the the entire wakesport community. Anyways I got to go now so I can wake up early and get to the butter 1st