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-   -   Oh no not the ZFT2 tower (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=788989)

dohboy 07-19-2011 9:43 PM

Oh no not the ZFT2 tower
 
3 Attachment(s)
What is Mastercraft thinking having this as the only option to the power tower? Bungy chords, really?

hatepain 07-19-2011 10:17 PM

Yeah thats friggin ugly! They must want everyone to buy the power tower.

wakecumberland 07-20-2011 8:53 AM

Lets hope thats a prototype!

ShawnB 07-20-2011 9:19 AM

The bungee rack looks to be the same base rack they had last year on the ZFT1 tower. You can still get the clamping rack if you want it on the 2. I really dislike the look of this tower over the 4 point but assuming it's strong enough it's a good move for MC. I'm assuming it will be very easy to raise and lower and uses a lot less raw material to build.

sidekicknicholas 07-20-2011 9:45 AM

With the power towers, does it lock up and/or down or does the ram keep it locked? Just wondering if the ram lost power/pressure and someone was riding would the tower fold down from the rider's drag?.... I can't imagine they don't have a failsafe (like a pin or something) but since I haven't played with on in person I figured I would ask

duckguy 07-20-2011 3:32 PM

I like it, up and down and the un-restricted view of a 2 point with less cost than the power tower.

polarbill 07-20-2011 3:35 PM

I just puked in my mouth. That is fugly as hell.

ralph 07-20-2011 5:11 PM

^^^ What he said. FAIL on aesthetics for sure.

mastercraf 07-20-2011 6:30 PM

Everyone hated the power tower when it came out. I think the bungees are a step backwards, but I'm sure if this is the only option offered besides the power tower that it will grow on people.

jason95gt 07-21-2011 9:15 AM

As stated the bungees are the base racks and you can get clamping racks just like now. This tower is either up or down. No middle ground lowering. I too love the 4 leg towers but the two legs help with ease of folding and visibility. The great thing about the MC towers compared to Nautiqe and Bu is that you can still access all the compartments and actually drive the boat with it down. As the other two towers sit on or above the driver. It will grow on people just like any other manufacturers tower.

cwb4me 07-21-2011 9:26 AM

They may grow on some people,but others may not purchase a boat if they don't like the looks of it.

bill_airjunky 07-21-2011 9:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason95gt (Post 1694755)
It will grow on people just like any other manufacturers tower.

Uh, no. They will just lose out on sales.

Why add to the expense, maintenance & support problems any boat has by putting a tower like this on it? It has no obvious benefits, unless the buyer is a complete couch potato who can't actually raise & lower his tower.

The only good thing about MC's Power Tower is that Murphy is makin a little bit off each one.

polarbill 07-21-2011 10:07 AM

Wait a second, is this the only tower you can get? They are going to completely get rid of the standard tower?

ShawnB 07-21-2011 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polarbill (Post 1694780)
Wait a second, is this the only tower you can get? They are going to completely get rid of the standard tower?

Yes, this is the new standard tower on most boats. 190, 197, and X7 will likely still have the 4-pointer full and mini tower available.

wakecumberland 07-21-2011 12:11 PM

Quote:

Uh, no. They will just lose out on sales.
I agree with Bill K. I will NEVER buy a boat with that tower on it.

tyler97217 07-21-2011 12:18 PM

Mastercraft towers have always looked very cutting edge and cool. They were crazy expensive and looked like they should be expensive. If this is really the new tower and only standard option, it will affect sales. I think it looks really cheap, which is not Mastercraft at all. I would certainly not buy a sweet expensive Mastercraft and let them put that tower on it.
Seems like they are really cutting costs everywhere while others are adding to their boats. First the motors and now the towers..... I am curious to see how this unfolds.
In all fairness though people used to hate the illusion tower when it came out and it became an icon. Not sure this will happen this time, but who knows.

ShawnB 07-21-2011 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyler97217 (Post 1694818)
Mastercraft towers have always looked very cutting edge and cool. They were crazy expensive and looked like they should be expensive. If this is really the new tower and only standard option, it will affect sales. I think it looks really cheap, which is not Mastercraft at all. I would certainly not buy a sweet expensive Mastercraft and let them put that tower on it.
Seems like they are really cutting costs everywhere while others are adding to their boats. First the motors and now the towers..... I am curious to see how this unfolds.
In all fairness though people used to hate the illusion tower when it came out and it became an icon. Not sure this will happen this time, but who knows.

Not sure what this means.... The base 5.7 Ilmor motor is AWESOME and I like it a lot better than the MCX that we had in our old X2.

polarbill 07-21-2011 1:06 PM

Wow, just wow. The only way I could ever see buying a mastercraft now is by getting one without a tower and putting on my own Samson or something similar. That tower looks so ghetto. The first step to making it not look so ghetto is to get rid of those 1975 dirt bike shock boots. My go they look terrible. I don 't understand why they are puttin gso much time and effort into motorized towers. Aren't the Nautique and Malibu towers very easy to raise and lower with a single person and don't they have a way to keep from feeling the full weight?

wakecumberland 07-21-2011 1:06 PM

Shawn B, the good news is that the value of your boat will likely go up as demand for the old tower will be much preferred over the new design and would be new boat shoppers looking at the used market. I would be included in that group :)

tyler97217 07-21-2011 1:10 PM

Shawn B - Not saying the motor is better or worse, but my guess is they switched cause it saves them money down the line since it is a sister company. All I was trying to state is it is another cost savings for the company. Sorry for the confusion. I am not talking bad about the motor cause I know nothing about them.

craigtxmc 07-21-2011 1:14 PM

OK peeps, hopefully I can ease some minds and fears. After many dealers reacted the same way you guys are, MasterCraft wisely responded by halting production on the 2012's until the tower was resolved.
We have had boats due since July 6th, and they were supposedly completed last night at midnight with the NEW DESIGN 2-POINT TOWERS!!! However, we have no idea what they are going to look like until it arrives here in Fort Worth, Tx tomorrow afternoon.

And just to clarify some of the bungee cord comments..... The bungee cords are standard on the board racks. However, ALL of our boats will be equipped with the clamping board racks that set MasterCraft's system apart from the bungee corded competition.

As far as we know at this point, MasterCraft will offer base manual ZFT2 towers with ability to upgrade to clamps, and the optional ZFT5 power tower. The power tower is actually a really cool tower and looks sharp in the down position with rigid bimini.

If anyone has any questions please ask. I will be happy to help in any way i can. I'm not certain, but I would probably say the we (TXMC) will get the very first 2012 tomorrow.

Craig.

pc_sledge 07-21-2011 1:50 PM

Thanks Craig, post up some pics if u can.

jason95gt 07-21-2011 2:03 PM

Diggs, you have to get your facts straight about the Ilmor situation. The motor is just about better in every way over the Indmar it is replacing and it is not a sister company. For a short period a couple years ago, they were sister companies until Penske sold his share.

tyler97217 07-21-2011 2:13 PM

Sorry. Just from what I heard and what has been posted on this board.... Not bashing.... except the tower is ugly... back at it...

duckguy 07-21-2011 2:17 PM

What is posted here many times is bashing and over reaction to anything new. I like Bill's Comment about Murphy making money on each tower. Nautique-The king of the ugly tower!

craigtxmc 07-21-2011 3:16 PM

Last 2 cents worth from me....

Ilmor builds every engine you see in Indy car racing. Even if you see Honda on the car, Ilmor built the engine. The cars can't advertise Ilmor in the US. However, in Europe, that same car will have ILMOR on the side of it during races. I believe it's a licensing thing...

The motor runs synthetic oil, cast iron manifolds, and moved alternator, starter, and oil filter to the top of the engine which allows much easier maintenance and keeps those important parts out of the water if the bilge takes on water. 2011 MC offered both Ilmor and Indmar, but 2012 will be exclusive Ilmor. Look for them to introduce fire breathing 6.2L naturally aspirated later in the year.

bill_airjunky 07-21-2011 3:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckguy (Post 1694861)
What is posted here many times is bashing and over reaction to anything new. I like Bill's Comment about Murphy making money on each tower. Nautique-The king of the ugly tower!

I hear ya. But it seems like the Transformer look to this tower is waaaay over the top. Murphy's original Power Tower was quite a bit more simple & had a more conventional look to it.

Remember Metcraft's old tower on Tiges & Calabrias with the integrated padded board racks on top? :eek:
What a POS they turned out to be.

tdc_worm 07-21-2011 8:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigtxmc (Post 1694874)
Last 2 cents worth from me....

Ilmor builds every engine you see in Indy car racing. Even if you see Honda on the car, Ilmor built the engine. The cars can't advertise Ilmor in the US. However, in Europe, that same car will have ILMOR on the side of it during races. I believe it's a licensing thing...

The motor runs synthetic oil, cast iron manifolds, and moved alternator, starter, and oil filter to the top of the engine which allows much easier maintenance and keeps those important parts out of the water if the bilge takes on water. 2011 MC offered both Ilmor and Indmar, but 2012 will be exclusive Ilmor. Look for them to introduce fire breathing 6.2L naturally aspirated later in the year.

Hmmmmm. I am going ton play a little devils advocate here. I don't have a dog in the fight , just like accurate info.

--What are your references that ilmor has a monopoly n Indy car engines?
--GM blocks starter locations are defined by threaded holes in the block and notches in the corresponding places in the bell housings of the selected transmissions. A raised starter would require a one off bell housing and starter combo that would net maybe 1" height before you ran into the head at an astronomical price. References?

I am often wrong but I hate "trust me" statements more than anything.

polarbill 07-21-2011 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdc_worm (Post 1694937)
Hmmmmm. I am going ton play a little devils advocate here. I don't have a dog in the fight , just like accurate info.

--What are your references that ilmor has a monopoly n Indy car engines?
--GM blocks starter locations are defined by threaded holes in the block and notches in the corresponding places in the bell housings of the selected transmissions. A raised starter would require a one off bell housing and starter combo that would net maybe 1" height before you ran into the head at an astronomical price. References?

I am often wrong but I hate "trust me" statements more than anything.

Out of curiosity I googled "ilmor mastercraft starter" and it came up with what appears to be the Delco top mount CCW starter. It originated as the huge direct drive with a pointy nose cone and now is the PG starter with no nose cone. Off the top of my head I believe the Delco number is 9000888 although it isn't available from Delco Remy anymore, or at least not in the aftermarket. Arco imports(assuming) a clone and a couple other companies import clones from China I am sure. So in reality it isn't new and would move it to the top. Having the alternator, starter and oil filter on top is great.

bill_airjunky 07-21-2011 10:07 PM

Hard to tell much of anything in this pic. Other than the standard starter location is empty.

http://sportboatmag.com/files/2011/06/ilmor.jpg

Here you can see the oil filter. Guess it drains downward when the engine isn't running so it shouldn't be messy to clean up after changing.
http://www.ilmor.com/user_area/conte...ooling-v-2.jpg
http://www.ilmor.com/user_area/conte...ntrols-v-1.jpg

Alternator on top
http://www.ilmor.com/user_area/content_media/hero.jpg

ralph 07-22-2011 1:02 AM

Thats a real work of art. Certainly a contrast to that tower

craigtxmc 07-22-2011 7:00 AM

We had a conference call with the president of ILMOR a few months back. Perhaps i am wrong saying they build "ALL" Indy car engines. I'm not a big INDY fan so i may have mispoken. I am confident saying they build Mercedes and Honda engines. I wasn't trying to start any trouble, i was just trying to help out with the blog. I apologize.
**** *****
The IndyCar circuit consists of 17 exhilarating races held around the world, and features some of the best open-wheel drivers in racing today. The highlight of each season is the Indianapolis 500, a grueling 200 lap race around the famous 2.5 mile track at speeds greater than 225 miles per hour. Completing it demands precision engineering. Winning demands extreme dedication. Each Ilmor engine is built on performance expertise gained throughout our Indy-winning heritage, and our unparalleled commitment to be the best.

Ilmor's ties to IndyCar run deep — our company was founded to design and build turbocharged engines for the American-based IndyCar series. The partnership between Swiss-born Mario Illien, British native Paul Morgan and American businessman and racing team owner Roger Penske was first powered by General Motors, and an all new eight cylinder turbocharged Chevrolet engine. In 1986, four-time Indy winner Al Unser became the first to race with the Ilmor-designed engine, and in April 1987 Mario Andretti was the first to secure an Ilmor win. The Ilmor-Chevrolet engine went on to win multiple championships, and rapidly became the dominant engine in Indy racing.

Ilmor later partnered with Mercedes-Benz to produce the MB500I, perhaps the most powerful engine in the nearly 100-year history of the Indy 500. It was driven to victory by famed Indy racer Al Unser, Jr.

Today, Ilmor works in partnership with Honda Performance Development, a partnership that has produced well over 120 victories and is set for more wins in 2011.

Our IndyCar accomplishments include:
17 Indianapolis 500 Wins
240+ IndyCar Wins
220+ IndyCar Pole Positions
13 IndyCar Drivers Championships
8 IndyCar Manufacturers Championships

07launch22ssv 07-22-2011 7:18 AM

FWIW......Indmar has their starters on top for all models, that started with all 2011 production, there have been certain motors that always used top mount starters (mostly malibu).

Quinten1993 07-22-2011 7:22 AM

I asked this at the mastercraft team talk
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/...ad.php?t=42609

ShawnB 07-22-2011 7:28 AM

The only bad thing about the switch to Ilmor was the death of the X1.

craigtxmc 07-22-2011 7:32 AM

Our first 2012 is a few hours from Fort Worth as we speak. I will take photos for all to see as soon as it hits the lot.

wotan 07-22-2011 7:56 AM

The impeller still looks like it would be a pain to replace.... but I give them TONS of credit for moving the rest of the maintenance to the top.

Is that a dry-sump setup? Not sure how else that they'd setup the oil filter like that.

craigtxmc 07-22-2011 8:04 AM

The impeller is more difficult to change on the ILMOR. No doubt. The engine is NOT a dry-sump.

wotan 07-22-2011 1:50 PM

Gotcha... I mistook the transmission/oil cooler as a dry-sump. Since I've never worked on anything fuel-injected in a boat, it was a part I was unfamiliar with! Cool!

tdc_worm 07-22-2011 4:09 PM

Haha Craig, no worries, I wasn't trying to be a dikc, just trying to learn something. Amongst those things I learned was top mounted counter clockwise rotation starters. The following link is a good example of a starter and corresponding bell housing I had no idea existed.

http://www.hardin-marine.com/p-13240...-rotation.aspx

polarbill 07-22-2011 4:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdc_worm (Post 1695206)
Haha Craig, no worries, I wasn't trying to be a dikc, just trying to learn something. Amongst those things I learned was top mounted counter clockwise rotation starters. The following link is a good example of a starter and corresponding bell housing I had no idea existed.

http://www.hardin-marine.com/p-13240...-rotation.aspx

I like the looks of that starter. It is a Denso design that someone has taken and made up the 2 bolt mount. Denso has some really good designs and makes a very good product. I am guessing that is just a clone from the ground up?

tdc_worm 07-22-2011 5:42 PM

Took me forever to fine the starter on the above engine. I was thinking it was a true top mount like I posted in the link. If you look at the third pic, you can see the solenoid with the big red cable and terminal boot in the lower right hand corner. If you look at the first pic, the starter body is the tiny red sliver just in front of the left manifold. So while it is not truly top mounted, it is definitely raised, and it points in the opposite direction of a standard mounted starter.

jason95gt 07-23-2011 10:15 AM

The starter is on the front of the motor, looking at it in a Vdrive boat, underneath the econtrol brain box. You see just the top of it in picture 3 above.

lionel 07-23-2011 7:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craigtxmc (Post 1695006)
Our first 2012 is a few hours from Fort Worth as we speak. I will take photos for all to see as soon as it hits the lot.

Umm.....Cliff hanger? Post pics already :D We're talking days not hours now :(

wakedoc 07-24-2011 4:59 PM

Damn - two strikes! Now that MC has deleted my favourite (205V) hull, and the only option for towers are these monstrosities, I'll have to keep looking (or just try and make my X1 last forever!).

andrew_moreton 07-25-2011 10:42 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I'll let Craig post more photos later but here's a pic of the first 2012 that arrived at TXMC last week.

polarbill 07-25-2011 11:21 AM

Wow, that thing looks like a big ugly pig and that tower makes it look even worse. Terrible job mastercraft, just terrible. The lines don't go with anything, way too much going on and just butt ugly.

aces6692 07-25-2011 11:52 AM

i love MC's but that tower is hideous, it makes last years automatic tower look good! thumbs down on the tower.

lionel 07-25-2011 12:05 PM

Besides the swivel racks which I assume are an option. Not sure what they changed? I like MC, but getting things out to customers with design problems is for the birds. i.e. VDig, Power Tower, Ilmor ECM, etc.

polarbill 07-25-2011 12:30 PM

It kind of looks like they tood the top half of this ugly universal tower and threw in on the hydraulic base.
http://www.taylortowers.com/core/dat...b_P1010306.jpg

chattwake 07-25-2011 12:34 PM

Well, I'm not a fan of that tower. Maybe it will look better with a z5 and a bunch of wetsounds on it. What is the function of the shock absorbers?

polarbill 07-25-2011 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chattwake (Post 1695674)
Well, I'm not a fan of that tower. Maybe it will look better with a z5 and a bunch of wetsounds on it. What is the function of the shock absorbers?

Those aren't shocks, they are hydraulic rams with shock boots over them. So ghetto looking.

timmyb 07-25-2011 1:54 PM

Did they hire a new designer or something? That tower is very disappointing!

dohboy 07-25-2011 4:09 PM

Theres no way that tower looks like it fits the X55

wakecumberland 07-25-2011 5:37 PM

I think they should rename it the ZST2 ....... ZERO SALES TOWER 2

07-25-2011 6:24 PM

No more tower mirror i guess:(

ktrent 07-25-2011 6:36 PM

before we complain lets wait and see how it looks on a smaller boat with a rigid bimmini top. but for now in my opinion it looks terrible. i hated the power tower until i saw it in person with a bimini so maybe my mind will change on this to.

jason95gt 07-26-2011 8:36 AM

When you are spending $130k+ for a X-55, what is another $5k for the power tower? The ZFT2 is meant for the smaller boats and I have already seen a design change on this tower. It has inlays in the middle which make it look much better with a bimini!

jaubrey 07-26-2011 10:59 AM

Wow. Im 100% a mastercraft guy but there is no way I would ever buy a boat with that tower. Lets hope next year they have different options otherwise I will be looking to replace our X30 with another brand. Its just sooo FUGLY.

jason95gt 07-26-2011 11:32 AM

Here is the fix for the towered mirror: http://redlinewatersports.blogspot.c...ew-mirror.html let me know if you need one!

mattscraft 07-26-2011 1:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Here is a picture with the bimini up and side panels added, looks better. I am a huge MC guy, but still not sure on this 2 point tower decision.

polarbill 07-26-2011 2:12 PM

Why must they keep making ugly towers and then using bandaids to fix them. Here is an idea. Make a simple, functional tower that actually good from the get go. Their engineers suck.

ktrent 07-26-2011 3:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason95gt (Post 1695997)
Here is the fix for the towered mirror: http://redlinewatersports.blogspot.c...ew-mirror.html let me know if you need one!

what ever happened to just using what we used years ago. the two small brackets on the widow frame and thumb screws to hold the mirror on. works perfect. thats what i still use on my current boat. its right in front of you so its a perfect view. it blocks more wind and you can lay it down at night or when covering. simple yet functional.

and i was hopping that with a bimini on a smaller boat would be better but come on mastercraft, straps for the bimini, we have towers now in 2011 we used straps in 1999 when we all had exteded pylons. the new tower is just plain weird, it kind makes me think of the wings on those river race jet boats.

i agree when your paying over 80 grand for a boat why would you get a downgrade like this.

gregtay 07-26-2011 3:54 PM

What in the world is the purpose of the side panels?.... is this seriously just extra material added to try to make the tower look better?

dohboy 07-26-2011 4:07 PM

That tower is still ugly with the side covers and the bimini is a giant step backwards.

Sasha2 07-26-2011 9:07 PM

Wow.. That is quite something...hmmm at least they have their name to pull them through.

tnvolgrad 07-26-2011 9:36 PM

They spent all their design time on that POS tower, then copied Tige's layout on the dash (e.g. 2012 MC touch screen is positioned very similar to that of Tige's layout ) - then once they finished designing such a crappy tower, they put a cup holder right above the new touch screen. What a bunch of morons - they have gotten big, fat, dumb, and happy - meanwhile the other brands are passing them.

stxr_racer 07-26-2011 9:43 PM

MC build nice boats but that tower sucks! :eek:

behindtheboat 07-26-2011 9:44 PM

it's as if their engineers don't even use the boats. bad to worse in my opinion, and I am/was an MC guy. It's frustrating because they support the sport with so much, except their boats don't seem to cater to the riders/skiers anymore.

tnvolgrad 07-26-2011 9:53 PM

A follow up to the knock off Tige Dash - what a joke. Atleast make up for that crappy tower with something original.

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...n/58400f10.jpg

http://i1211.photobucket.com/albums/...n/d025b936.jpg

behindtheboat 07-26-2011 9:59 PM

This was brought up in the skiing world, as Nautique moved their speed control to that area as well on the new 200. Why exactly do you want the driver looking down and to the right while driving. It's not a radio in a car, it's something that is monitored during the pull. speaking of, buttons on the steering wheel, when will that happen (if it has let me know)

Thrall 07-27-2011 2:48 PM

I dunno, cup holder on the dash is a great idea I think, either for drinks or just a cubby....as long as they didn't get rid of the cup holders down under the throttle.
Where else would you suggest they put the touch screen (other than up their $%#^, since I don't like touch screen digital controls anyway)? Looks like the best place to me, except all the left handed poeple will biatch about it! They didn't copy anyone on that. Did Ford copy Chevy by putting a speedometer in front of the steering wheel? Nope, that's where it's supposed to go.

I still think the ZFT2 tower looks like crap, just a little less crappy with the side panels.
Don't like the bimini 7.5 ft in the air either. Nice to walk under, doesn't provide much shade and straps???? really??? I even ditched bimini straps on my '96 once I got a tower to mount the bimini on!

ANd please no steering wheel controls, don't even think of adding them!

gregtay 07-27-2011 2:56 PM

Where do all the bimini poles end up when the bimini is folded up? I hope the front of that bimini doesn't shake like crazy over bumps. Sort of looks like something you would see on a sea ray or four winns. Maybe the Tower Bimini guys can come up with something that looks better.

timmyb 07-27-2011 3:03 PM

I don't think steering wheel controls would work due to a boat wheel not having a "true center". It's not like a car where the majority of your time is spent with the wheel perfectly centered.

bmr82 07-27-2011 7:59 PM

I rode in that X-55 that TXMC has last weekend. I'm not a fan of the look of the tower, I don't remember it having bungees. I think it was the locking set up as before. I will say that the tower is study. You can't budge that thing man. It's stout. And folding it down is really nice and easy. You have to pull it down even with the four speakers. Again, not a fan of the looks though. But for what it's worth, it's a solid unit.

behindtheboat 07-27-2011 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmyb (Post 1696379)
I don't think steering wheel controls would work due to a boat wheel not having a "true center". It's not like a car where the majority of your time is spent with the wheel perfectly centered.

you don't drive straight lines for your riders? i can tune the radio in my car without the steering wheel being straight/forward.

dohboy 07-27-2011 9:17 PM

Oh no it gets worse with the new dash! What is that big hole or cut out opposite of the new BIG display? And what are those knobs instead of toggle switches? Come on really! It has a generic look to the whole thing from the tower to the dash. I know they make all there own aluminum stuff, but do they have to keep using it?

ShawnB 07-28-2011 6:33 AM

Considering that the Tige Touch, Malivue, and BIG are all actually made by Medallion, I don't really have a problem with the placement. One of the few things I don't like about the 2011 X25 is how high the BIG screen is. It's convenient to look at but not so easy to see past.

The biggest disappointment is that with a totally new system for 2012 I probably won't be seeing any software updates for the 2011 BIG.

timmyb 07-28-2011 8:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by behindtheboat (Post 1696438)
you don't drive straight lines for your riders? i can tune the radio in my car without the steering wheel being straight/forward.

I do. It depends on the type of controls they put on the steering wheel and their placement as to how good/bad it would work.

alans 07-28-2011 8:08 AM

There is a new software update for the 2011 BIG. It came in the most recent 2011's that we got in. The interface is a lot like the touch screen software.


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