has anyone replaced the hard tanks on a SAN with sacs instead? Did you use the factory fill pump and drain pumps? Did you build a hard cover/box for the sac so you can store stuff on top of it? Did you vent the sacs. Also did you install a sac in the ski locker also. Thinking of doing this. Just dont know yet. Thanks

I have seen this done in a malibu but not a super air. I would be intersted to hear if anyone has done this and how it works as well. You would probably need to upgrade the pumps as well, I've heard that can be rough though.

Why? Sacks rupture

I have sacs that are made with the same material as inflatable boats. It is tougher than the PE used for hard tanks. Hard tanks get damaged when gear is piled on top. They also cut down on storage space. The sacs deflate and the space can then be used for the ride home. Price is $150 each shipped in CONUS with plugs and hose connectors for all three fittings. These are not the waterbed type sacks or fittings. These are the OEM sacks used by some boat makers - just without the huge markup. <BR> <BR><a href="mailto:rider@boarditup.com">rider@boarditup. com</a>

Hey Karl, <BR>How much weight can each sac hold? Do you have multiple sizes to choose from? Any pics of the sacs?

Karl <BR> <BR>I guess I missunderstood and still do--my tanks in my 04 SANTE have a protective cover and I put things on top of them. I understand the sac in the locker if you do not have ballasts built in. <BR> <BR>As far as storage you mentioned installing a "hard cover/box" on top of the deflatable sacs. Gear is gear, you'll have the same amount going out and comming in--what will you gain by the extra work? <BR> <BR>CC uses the same material for the fuel cell as for the ballast tanks. <BR>

"what will you gain by the extra work?" <BR> <BR>When you're out on the water, you've got boards up on the tower, right? When you're traveling, where do you put them? This gives you more options to store things while the boat is on the trailer. Plus, a lot of factory ballast tanks don't make full use of the compartments that they're in (example, Malibus), so by replacing the hard tanks with bags you can get more weight in that space. <BR> <BR>It really shouldn't be that much work, since the plumbing is all there, just a matter of having the right connections.

Tracie <BR> <BR>You do the work and let us know how "easy" it is. <BR> <BR>Any board longer than 119 cm will not fit beside the engine in a SAN--no matter what you do with the tanks. <BR> <BR>Finally, you are adding water, the weight of which is a physical constant. Therefore, 500 lbs of water in a sack takes up the same amount of space as 500 lbs of water in a tank. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by dfish on May 17, 2004)

Whatever Dan. I installed a custom ballast system in my last boat that had nothing to work with, &amp; made that look stock &amp; hidden. I've looked at the connections on the MLS on my Wakesetter &amp; it wouldn't be that hard. If you want to believe it would be, that's totally up to you.

Dan, <BR>I don't know if you're referring to flat tanks, but with wedge tanks, I stored my 135 there all season <BR> <BR>(Message edited by wakeborder5 on May 18, 2004)

I have the wedge tanks, it is 116.85 CM from the bulkhead to the transom. Like I said you can't get 119 CM in. I own an 04 SANTE <BR> <BR>Tracie, didn't think we were discussing a BU. Glad you are capable.

Does anybody have a photo of the SAN rear locker open with the wedge tanks?

Here is mine with all the pretty stuff removed <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/170984.jpg" alt="">

I believe you can get longer boards in there. I store my slalom and combo skis in there. the just slide thru under the rear seats. If you do that with the boards, then longer ones will fit too. Now if you have a battery under each seat, then you might have a problem since I can only store one ski next to the battery. <BR> <BR>I just wish I could get better access to the engine. I might remove the tanks next time to see if that helps with the access issues.

<BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/170989.jpg" alt="Wedge Transom"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/170990.jpg" alt="04 SAN Wedge"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/170991.jpg" alt="119 Board"> <BR> <BR>Guess I'm an idiot or purchased an 04 with even less storage than everyone else

Thanks Robert &amp; Dan, purrrrfect <BR> <BR>(Message edited by ralph on May 18, 2004)

If I am seeing things right CC screwed up the storage on the newer boats. On my locker, the front has a small rectangular hole that is the width of the locker and about 4-5" tall from the floor. This allows you to slip the leading edge of the board under the rear bench seat. It looks like the newer boats have a full bulkhead that does not allow you to do this. That is another strike against all the "improvements" they made since my '02 SANTE. The only good improvement they made was the gauges. The rest of the improvemnets ruined some of the good points of the boat. It also looks like the tank covers are not molded to the same shape of the tank as well either.

I've heard alot of complaints about the storage on the SAN. That was a big issue for me going from my Sport. I must admit it does get extremely cramped, and I am constantly looking for places to put things. Unfortunately, I have not found many.

Where do you keep the full size skis? On mine, they don't fit under the observer's seat due to the kicker sub placement, and the only place they would fit is the rear lockers, now it looks like they won't fit there either. Looks like I will be keeping my SAN for a while, either that or getting a 211 or a BU for my next boat.

That's why we are looking at the new MB B-52 V3. Lots of room with the tanks built in under the boat. Why has the SAN done this yet I wonder?

I have an 03 SAN TE and my 134 CWB absolute will fit on top of the wedge tanks. I wonder why they changed and closed that up? Maybe people complaining about the gear all running to the bottom? Or problems with additional weight on top of wedge tanks? I don't know, but if I was going to buy an 04 boat I don't know if it would be a Nautique (Not to mention I LOVE my 03 and wouldn't want to trade it). Closing up the storage was almost as bad as changing to manual clasps on the sundeck. I also don't care for the design of the new tower.

I would almost bet it has something to do with preventing engine fumes from being able to get into the passenger compartment. I can understand if that was the logic, but there would have been better ways to make it more airtight. <BR> <BR>When I see the knee busters I just shake my head in disbelief. I bet they did that b/c of all the warranty work people were having done to adjust the hatches so they would open at the touch of a button. I have learned that after they are wet they will open just fine, but untill then the vinyl will stick, and it is something I learned to live with. Not a big deal really, but untill I figured out why they kept sticking I had my dealer adjust them about three or four times. They never complained, and in hind sight I kinda feel bad for wasting their time with it.

The sacks are 58" long, 18" wide, and 14" high. I have not weighed them full, but rough cals show about 540 lbs of water. <BR> <BR><a href="mailto:rider@boarditup.com">rider@boarditup. com</a>

Dan, I also own an 04 SANTE with wedge tanks, and I ride 141-142cm boards...there is NO hope of me ever getting a board inside the boat while traveling. The reason you would use sacs though is because they fill into every inch of the compartment, while the plastic tanks waste about enough space to make up for an amazing 10 lbs! wow people, I would rather not mess with a $58,000 dollar boat to get an extra 10-20 lbs of ballast per tank when I could just feed my friends more chips for a dollar a bag...do the math. <BR> <BR>Besides people, you dont buy a SANTE for storage. It's strictly a wakeboarding boat, not intended for family cruising, camping, or whatever else you can think of... <BR> <BR>Dan, I must agree with you. The mental capabilities of many of the people on this site are just going downhill...

Huh, mental capabilities? <BR> <BR>I guess we should all sell our wake only boats as they can't be used for cruising, camping or hanging out. <BR> <BR>BTW John, I think it was clarly illustrated that in '04 CC made the lockers SMALLER by closing off the passthru to the seats in the back. <BR> <BR>I have a TEMET 142.3, and I will take a picture of it in the locker next time I am around the boat. The only way it might not fit, is if it is too wide. I will even take a picture of my combo skis in and out of the side lockers, and my slalom ski in and out of the locker. I can fit an amazing amount of crud on the boat. The only thing I wish i had more of is dry storage, but I think we have that figured out. We are going to get a rubbermaid tub to put under the observer's seat, and that should be big enough for the towels and dry foods we take.

Thats cool Robert...and I know you were aiming towards being smart and correcting me, but you didn't prove anything I said to be wrong. If you were literate, you would have noticed I didn't even mention how CC made their lockers smaller, which they did. I have had 3 SANTE within the last 3 years, I "clarly" would have noticed. <BR> <BR>Have fun trying to get your board in there man, and when it doesn't fit and first just jump on it and f*ck up your gelcoat and maybe if you jump on it long enough it will pop in there. <BR> <BR>I can just feel the intellectual vibes right now. <BR> <BR>

I guess it won't fit. You win. <BR> <BR>I am not literate. <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/172414.jpg" alt="Temet 142.3 not fitting in the locker"> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/172415.jpg" alt="Temet 142.3 not fitting in the locker"> <BR> <BR>BTW, what does your daddy do for a living to be able to buy you a new boat every year? <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/172416.jpg" alt="Temet 142.3 not fitting in the locker">

calm down guys. <BR> <BR>can we just say that CC has made some unfortunate changes on the newer boats (closing off the tank area, putting the knee breakers on the sunpad, etc) and stop the personal insults? <BR> <BR>personally I love the push-button, auto-locking setup on my 02 san. but i can understand the cost/maintenance involved is no fun for CC. but i would have rathered they moved to the hidden handles like MC rather than the knee-destroying malibu method. <BR> <BR>hopefully they'll improve on these things next year. they used to offer flat tanks, do they not anymore? <BR> <BR>Wes

I am guessing nobody has replaced the tanks with sacs? *LOL* Oh well....

John wrote: <BR><b><font color="ff0000"><i>"Besides people, you dont buy a SANTE for storage. It's strictly a wakeboarding boat, not intended for family cruising, camping, or whatever else you can think of...</i></font></b> <BR> <BR>Thats nuts. As if the boat must design out all storage opportunities!

Luis, <BR> <BR>I can't really see a good reason to replace the tanks with sacks. You can still put an additional sack on top of the tank, but if you replace the tank with sacks, I would imagine the panel seperating the storage and tanks from the engine would buldge into the engine from the side loading. There is not much lateral support for those pieces. <BR> <BR>I can't imagine you would gain that much storage space by eliminating the tanks. It won't increase the length, and it seems that is the limiting factor for the "improved design" boats CC is selling now. <BR> <BR>I you did put in sacks instead of tanks, the best way in my mind would be to use a fill port, and empty port on the bottom of the bag, and a overflow with a valve that opens under slight pressure on the top of the bag. If the bag is not allowed to generate internal pressure, then it won't fill completly. I am not sure what pressure you would want for the relief valve. <BR> <BR>Either way, I feel better knowing my tank should not spring a leak easily. I just wish they were not there when I want to do maintenance.

I took everything out of the locker today, and tried to fit a 138cm board I had laying around into the locker again. It WOULD NOT GO IN! Sorry Rob, but I am positive that mine would not go in...and it didn't...I really had no reason to believe that, but obviously you did it somehow. I tried every angle but there was no way it would actually get into the locker. The tail would hang out a good 6 inches out the back of the locker. I guess you got yours in there somehow. What happened to the board that goes right where the nose of your board is going into? There is a board right there on both sides on ours, and on one there is a shower mounted to the board. Did you take it out? Looks like you relocated your shower to the right side of the locker. If you could tell me what you did, I would REALLY appreciate it. <BR> <BR>Sorry for being an @$$, but I HAVE tried it before, and it didn't work...

Oh, wait, you don't have an 04...wasn't following there. <BR> <BR>My board was in a position more like Dan's where it was just kinda not going in all the way, only the shower bracket kicked mine out another couple of inches

I guess I can pull my board out, and re-fiberglass the end back on that I cut off. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>My '02 never had that panel in the front, and the shower was installed right where it is by my dealer before I bought the boat. Either my dealer must remove those panels, or CC redesigned the rear locker. How was your '02 set up? Mine is a late '02, so I can't imagine if yours was either a late or early '02 it would have been much different. <BR> <BR>like I said before, "Where do y'all keep your skis?" There is nowhere else on the boat that a long ski would fit except for in the rear lockers! <BR> <BR>That was the worst move CC made in all of their "upgrades" to the SAN! <BR> <BR>BTW, a little fun banter back and forth is fun sometimes. <BR> <BR>I am off to do some fiberglass work (installing a heater, so I can stay warm this summer). You can see the install on planetnautique.com

Just thought I would chime in with my 04. I chose the flat tanks since I had the wedge tanks on my 02. My rear storage still goes through without a bulkhead so fiting a board in is no problem. Here's a couple of pictures with a 136. <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/172459.jpg" alt=""> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/172460.jpg" alt="">

Question: why do you want to store a board back there? <BR> <BR>Just while in tow? <BR> <BR>Just while in storage?

Robert, I honestly don't even remember what our 02 was like back there...we never put boards in there. We always put them in the back of the truck when we are transporting them.

FYI< <BR>I have a friend with a 2002 super with the hippo system in it, no hard tanks, three huge bags, the system actually works, gauge looks cool. He ordered the boat tank delete, so he can have the bags in the boat. The storage space was huge when the bags were empty, and the wake was huge, 1500 pounds for all the bags, and 500 of lead up front. I am contemplating this option for my san too. so hopefully I can post some pictures. yes, it can be done, and yes you will be able to store your boards in the lockers, more than one in each locker also.

I don't store my boards there. They go in the floor of the boat/back of truck while in transit. While on the water they are in the rack. I do keep a set of combo skies and slalom ski in the two lockers. That is the only place they will fit. The only thing that turns me off on sacs in the lockers, is where do you put the stuff that was being stored in the locker when you fill the tanks. If you are only putting boards in there for the trip to the lake, i can't see it being cost effective to ditch the tanks for that time frame only. if you are just wanting more hidden ballast, then just stick a sac on the hard tank, and fill up the remainder of the locker. Whatever way you go, if you fill up the locker with a sca it is no good for storage.

My dealer warned me about the wedge tanks before purchasing, thought about the flat tanks for a pair of seconds until I looked up and remembered the board racks. <BR> <BR>If I needed a place for my slalom ski, I'd be buying the wrong boat! A SAN sucks for any kind of water skiing! <BR> <BR>I have found places to store everything (except for the Air Chair) for 6 people for an entire day on the river. 10 lbs of crap in a 5 lb bag. If I need more storage I'll build a party barge.

Got the whole air-chair thing solved for me. <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/172807.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/172808.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/172809.jpg" alt="">

Robert <BR> <BR>Nice job on the racks! In addition to the storage compartment change in 04, CC changed the tower design also. <BR> <BR>My dealer ordered a rack for the chair for mine but when we installed it the chair hit the tower.