simple help needed. I ride normally at 70ft 22.5 or some days 75ft 23.0 (w/ballast 1500lbs). I can do the basics to include grabs and such. I get good hang time. I started my backroll attempts last weekend and rode at 70ft with ballast and the crashed were brutal but no injurys, I was thinking of next time no ballast but stay at 70ft and slow down to like 21.5-22.0? <BR> <BR>But my friend did tear his MCL on a basic 1 wake jump learning to jump the wakes right before my run..<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/blush.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>By the way my boat is a Sanger V215 <BR> <BR>(Message edited by ghostrider_2 on October 12, 2007)

my suggestion is shorten the rope to 65 feet, no ballast, and the same speed. I didn't have any super hard licks when i was learning the back roll.

seems like 65ft it would happen really fast with limited hang time? <BR> <BR>You think same speed also eeven when goes from 70 to 65ft? <BR> <BR>If weather is good I am going out tomorrow.

ya its going to happen pretty quick. Try it at 70 feet and see what happens, also with no ballast. Theres nothing that i know of that can make this trick simple when learning it other than to go out and try it over and over again. After you get it consistently you'll be like wow this trick is really simple.

going to give it some more trys this morning, at 70ft no ballast and 21.5-22.0. <BR> <BR>Threw it for the first time last night on the tramp, wasn't hard as I thought.

at first i tried to "learn" this on the tramp. And i can say that doing it on the tramp doesn't compare to the rotation you'll get on the water. But it does build air awarness.

Tramp will help you to keep your eyes open to spot the landing, but I agree w/ Spencer, the rotation is different and the line tension is very hard to replicated on a tramp. Personally, I would adjust the rope length before the boat speed. If you are coming up short and casing the 2nd wake, bring the line in 5. However, if you have a solid w2w jump w/ good control, coming short is likely the result of poor edging and/or trying to throw the trick off too early. <BR> <BR>Keep trying! It's fun to take this big with a nice slow rotation once you get it dialed in!

It sounds like you are on the right path. I would say to not drain you ballast if you felt like your atempts with ballast and the longer rope felt bigger. I always thought that slowing down the boat and bringing in the rope was the way to go when you are learning new tricks. I have now discovered that it is now alot more factors to take into consideration before you throw something new. I just keep everything the same now and it makes me alot more consistiant on the trick after I learn it, rather than having to go set everthing back to normal and try the trick again. I also discovered that it works better to take things big when you are trying something new. You will have more time to spot your landing and if you are not right on the trick then you will have more time to spot your crash... Just my 2 cents.

Robert- I have to agree with you. <BR> <BR>Go big on most every attempt (depending on the trick), otherwise, you start to think about the trick more on your approach and end up coming up short with nasty crashes. This is very true on most inverts and rolls. I even think it applies to some spins. <BR> <BR>I push for a lot of pop w/ low line tension on the HS 360 so I can float through the trick on the handle pass.