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-   -   suggested etiquette for riders that become regulars (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=807702)

scottb7 05-29-2017 7:14 AM

suggested etiquette for riders that become regulars
 
Bad weather day so thought I would put this out for comment. Flame me if you want...

Be reminded this is just in the spirit of fun of us boat owners comparing etiquette notes and horror stories.

I have had nothing with trouble with my snowboard buddies becoming wakeboarding regulars. (Mind you these are not friends per se they are just guys I snowboard with and met at the hill. they are old high school buddies of each other, but I just met them at the snow hill.). They love to board so want to come out as much as possible, and granted people that don't own a boat have no idea the commitment boat owners make. But these 2 guys shared a boat rental so I am a but surprised how tough a transition it has been.

I understand that we all have the 2 or 3 times a year guest that you don't expect money and borrows our stuff...This is mean for people that are regulars on your boat but don't own a boat so you can't go back and forth on theirs.

My horror stories with just these 2 guys...
1. these guys when they drive my boat yelling "hit it" and just jerking the throttle forward rather then moving it forward and even a medium amount of speed.
2. one of them just showing up with his 10 year old without asking if it is alright, and then kid complaining for next 3 hours, and then two weeks later asking if his kid could take a set. this is after I already told him 3 times that boating is pretty much the guys getting away from kids/wives for a while...and then I ask if his kid know how to wakeboard. and he is like, no, but that shouldn't be a problem...like I want to teach his kid how to wakeboard. if I wanted to I would have offered.
3. one of them bring his dog with assumption that the dog could piss and crap all over my yard, and when I call him on it, he is like no problem the dog can just stay in his car next 4 hours.
4. taking pictures of themselves and videos like they own the boat leaving boat owner out...boat rental attitude...glad I could drive for them....
5. one of them saying, "hey since I am giving you $8, make sure I got my 30 minutes"....on a fully loaded sacked out boat...like that would cover maybe half the cost.

Am I missing anything from below? We all want friends and people to ride with, but so hard to deal with people that just don't get it...

Boat regulars etiquette
• Have your own equipment
o board/bindings
o wetsuit/drysuit
o life jacket
o understand you are still using boat owners equipment (rope, handle) all of which wears out
• offer gas money
• carry gas cans to the boat
• remember that boats are expensive so treat the boat decent
o don’t throw or drag your equipment on the vinyl if you can help it
o don’t gun the motor. Yelling hit it and jerking throttle forward is just rude
• wipe down boat using your own towel if one is not provided
• always ask before you bring extra people…don’t just show up with people and assume it is ok to bring them on the boat, even if they are just going to watch
o boat owner understands that you are probably having a good time and would like to share the experience with your family…but at that point you gotta get your own boat
• Offer to drive the boat, it not a taxi cab or uber experience

jonblarc7 05-29-2017 8:28 AM

I agree with some of what you said BUT

Not wanting to teach a kid how to wakeboard is just COLD HEARTED!!!

tn_rider 05-29-2017 9:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonblarc7 (Post 1959811)
I agree with some of what you said BUT



Not wanting to teach a kid how to wakeboard is just COLD HEARTED!!!



Agreed, kinda what lost me. You're supposed to want to push the sport....

bcrider 05-29-2017 10:03 AM

For me the weekdays have been for the guys and the weekend is for the (my) kids. I think when you invite you have to just say "just guys today" and hopefully he gets it. I always tell my buddies if my kids are coming or not as that sets the tone being that there's can as well or that it won't be the same atmosphere as when they aren't.

I've been fairly lucky over the years as the core group of friends that come out with me have been doing so 15-20 plus years. They know the routine. They've chipped in to help buy gear over the years and picked up their own boards, vests, and such. If the newbies don't recognize that everyone else in the boat or at the gas station are handing me cash or contributing in some sort of way then they don't generally get invited back but that isn't very often.

There's nothing wrong with a little on water training. Always sucks when you are the boat owner and get the worst pull because nobody knows how to drive.

scottb7 05-29-2017 10:31 AM

thanks for the dialogue as I work thru it...

it is a bitter pill to swallow on teaching a kid, that wasn't invited or a father that pressured me to have him his kid come, or that just showed up, by a guy that has been told like 3 times that it is guys only and no kids...with a cheap father, that thinks nothing about mistreating my stuff telling people to gun my boat like it is a rental.

I got a friend that is pretty direct and says that at the point someone wants to bring their own kids/spouse/friends is the point at which they should get their own boat...he feels like his boat is for his friends and family, and who he invites. He feels his invitees should not be inviting others.

yeah, it sucks when you get worst pull because you make sure guests get good water...or you go last and end up in the dark...

Medium 05-29-2017 11:22 AM

It sucks when people come out on the boat and have bad etiquette. I'm all for teaching people how to ride, young or old, but there are days that I want to knock out a couple quick sets on an early weekday morning before work and then there are weekend days that I'm down to chill all day and take the time with people learning. You just need to invite people accordingly, and if people still don't get it after telling them whats up, then they don't get invited back out.

BCPMike0663 05-29-2017 11:26 AM

This is why I mostly just ride dirty with my wife.

bcrider 05-29-2017 11:47 AM

Anyone that treats my boat like a rental would get dropped at the dock if it was really bad or would never be coming back.

Invited people definitely should not be turning around and inviting anyone else unless it's been previously discussed.....or girls :)

Mike88 05-29-2017 4:04 PM

Hahaha good story!

That's exactly why I bought my new boat with maximum stacked ballast and a hull that can produce the best wave without assuming to have more than my wife and my little boy in the boat.

Some people are mean and You don't have to be scared of saying to them.
It's important to have rules when it's your boat. Like you said it's expensive and if someone act like he don't care you simply tell him directly and if it's not ok you just domp it at the dock!.

SoulSurfer 05-29-2017 9:52 PM

If these aren't really your friends (which it sounds like they aren't, if they are treating you like the chartered boat driver), why invite them out at all? Pretty easy to just limit/end the invitations. That said, all of that sounds super annoying.

racer808 05-30-2017 4:37 AM

sounds to me like you're passive aggressive and bring this upon yourself.

BrettLee3232 05-30-2017 5:55 AM

Yeah dude, drop these douche bags and get some real friends! People like that suck, let them rent a pontoon.

boardman74 05-30-2017 6:42 AM

I think like said above, this is pretty simple. If you don't like the way they act or treat your boat, don't invite them again. EASY.

Snowboarders and boat owners aren't the same people. Plenty of rude skier/ snowboarders out there. Same as boaters. There are a lot of other boaters I wouldn't want in my boat. Sounds like you just found a couple rude selfish guys who are just using you for the pulls. Get a mirror if you don't have one, you don't need a third in Minnesota. Let these guys go back to renting.

hal2814 05-30-2017 9:12 AM

When I find myself annoyed by regulars I ask myself why they're still regulars. Back when I was married the wife hated going out on the boat and pretty much all of the boat maintenance and cleanup was my deal. My "crew" was inconsistent and not very helpful but I needed them to get some time on the water. I could have all of the etiquette rules I wanted but nobody would've followed them. When I moved from Georgia to Texas, I sold the boat and went cable. I was a lot happier with that setup at that place in my life. I didn't buy a boat again until about a year ago when my girlfriend expressed interest in boating. She went out regularly with her family when she was a kid and always loved it. I'm fortunate now that she is really into boating and wakeboarding. She's a good driver and helps with launching, cleanup, and some of the maintenance. To me a good boating partner whether it be a girlfriend, spouse, older child, co-owner, or just good friend is the only thing that makes boat ownership really worth it. We don't need a crew. We're perfectly capable of doing it all ourselves so our crew are made up entirely of people whose company we enjoy. If we have a problem with someone we simply don't invite them back.

stevo8290 05-30-2017 9:42 AM

I have slow faded a few people that thought they were regulars. Anyone that is not me can be easily replaced on my boat. My biggest issue is people inviting others without asking. Or even worse saying, "can so and so come? they're already in the car with me." When I want to invite someone else on someones boat I make sure of two things. 1. i make sure the owner knows that I am asking, no need to feel obligated, I tell them explicitly that if it's a no go please speak up. 2. I make sure said person I'm inviting mixes with the vibe. If we're planning on getting some serious riding in one afternoon I'm not going to invite, a noob, a drunk, or whatever, etc. I'll only invite another ripper that I think will get along and keep the same vibe. Someone that's into the sport, that is possible one of my regulars that knows whats up.

See, what people don't understand is we take our boat out for a variety of reasons, 90% of my time on the water is serious riding, so don't invite someone to "go to the lake" whose gonna throw off the experience I'm trying to have that day. Call me an elitist but many people think they can do what they want when it comes to other peoples boats. Those people never become regulars with me.

theloungelife 05-30-2017 11:54 AM

Your boat, so your rules. I'd try and be as straight up with them as possible. Consider emailing them something like "Hey, I don't think I've communicated the rules of my boat well. I want to have you guys out but we need to respect these rules" (your list above). It's kind of like power turns. I'd bet 95% of power turners don't know it's a bad thing to do. Same with bad boat etiquette. I personally think all these suggestions to just slow fade or stop inviting them are part of the reason boat riding is in decline. Just man up and tell them how it is. If they refuse to follow, then you've done your part and you can 86 them.

Xbigpun66 05-30-2017 11:59 AM

I don't invite/ allow anyone on my boat that I do not know. If someone was not fitting in with the group they would be gone. Summer is too short to deal with drama.

stevo8290 05-30-2017 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theloungelife (Post 1959867)
Your boat, so your rules. I'd try and be as straight up with them as possible. Consider emailing them something like "Hey, I don't think I've communicated the rules of my boat well. I want to have you guys out but we need to respect these rules" (your list above). It's kind of like power turns. I'd bet 95% of power turners don't know it's a bad thing to do. Same with bad boat etiquette. I personally think all these suggestions to just slow fade or stop inviting them are part of the reason boat riding is in decline. Just man up and tell them how it is. If they refuse to follow, then you've done your part and you can 86 them.


Nah, I'm all for spreading the stoke, but there are plenty of other reasons boat riding is declining. I pass the handle any chance I get when when I have people who genuinely want to learn the ropes. Problem is your average boat bum is just that, a person that bums rides on your boat looking for a fun day on the lake. It is what it is, I love chilling on the lake but I gotta get my riding in.

Dandy21 05-30-2017 1:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevo8290 (Post 1959869)
Nah, I'm all for spreading the stoke, but there are plenty of other reasons boat riding is declining. I pass the handle any chance I get when when I have people who genuinely want to learn the ropes. Problem is your average boat bum is just that, a person that bums rides on your boat looking for a fun day on the lake. It is what it is, I love chilling on the lake but I gotta get my riding in.

And this explains why there are so many pontoons sold and why there are $100K toons out there. If you want to have people hang out with you, they can bum around all day on the water. It is getting harder and harder to find people that actually want to go out and ride. Heck, in our short MN Summers, we have a tough time finding people with open schedules to join us. Alot of people say they will but when it comes down to it, they are busy too.

It seems more and more people just want to just hang out and not actually participate in anything. They don't know what they are missing out on.

joshugan 05-30-2017 2:13 PM

Scott, I can tell you're a really good dude and the exact type of person I would love to have at the lake. The problem that I see is that it seems like you're assuming that other people are going to be the same type of person as you. You're letting yourself get walked on because you're not setting proper boundaries. Why should your guests get the best water? They shouldn't and if any of them had beef about you taking the best water then they suck. You're so good at caring about your guests' enjoyment that you're not acknowledging and responding to your lack thereof. If you don't recognize and act on your feelings, then why in the world do you think anyone else will? If you avoid confrontation then perhaps you have a good friend who is a regular that can pitch in to be the "bad cop". I.e. He explains the rules, He makes sure you get the good water. He tells people how much they need to bring in gas money. It kind of sounds like you don't have someone like that though so then you need to do it.

If the problem is not having regulars so that you get to go to the lake then look on FB or on here for other people in your area that enjoy boarding. Make the boundaries clear from the beginning. Also, fill up gas on the way home from the lake so everyone pitches in their fair share. If someone leaves early then they need to give you $20. If they complain that they didn't ride that long, oh well, it's still $20 or don't come.

stevo8290 05-30-2017 2:52 PM

Yes, start an FB group. I started one called "Red River and Pine woods wakeboarders" made it so I had to approve members, and posted a few clips of riding from time to time. There result? I linked up with a few people that I'd have never met. Two people I became really good friends with them and their family's. Heck, ones a dentist that hooked me up with some dental work for a good deal and invited me to his bachelor party in Vegas. Point being, when I met these people they were not die hard, but they owned boats and wanted reliable people to not only ride with but learn a thing or two from. Now, even though they don't have the bag of tricks I have, I still consider them more legit to ride with then lots of people with a deep bag of tricks. Most of my main ride buddies now learned how it works from me. I hate to sound brash but you could say I trained my crew. But you don't have to be a jerk about it, you just have to lead by example and show them what a tight knit ride group can accomplish and how fun it is when everyone pulls their weight.

Side note, another good place to meet people to ride is wakeworld. There are several people on here that live further away from me but from time to time we get together and ride. It's never easy to get a good group together so you just have to constantly work at it if you are into it. I think that goes for just about any activity not just wakeboarding, like fishing, golf or even hunting - there are the people who just want to pretend, then there are people who need to succeed in their own way at everything they do.

Here's a good way to weed people out, tell them to be at the dock at 5:30 am and boat gets sacked out and leaves dock right when the sun comes up, if they aren't down the catch that smooth water, then they aren't down. But if they take one set on that early morning butter when the conditions are just right then you might get someone addicted to it for life.

Bakes 05-30-2017 3:41 PM

I absolutely HATE the people that show up late and leave early. I make it very clear it's an all day commitment. A trip to the dock is about 30 min and creates a weird time pressure dynamic. I also fill my boat up on the way to the lake. A good regular will offer to fill the tank every so often.

Anywho...those dudes sound like D-bags who need to be dropped.

racer808 05-31-2017 4:42 AM

This is why I keep my crew small. Plus I get more ride time in.

scottb7 05-31-2017 6:40 AM

Yeah, all good feedback. Thanks. I have started cultivating some new relationships...which for me is a bit of work...both cutting people and not over analyzing is hard for me.

If ever nearby Burnsville MN let me know...

racer808 05-31-2017 7:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottb7 (Post 1959923)
Yeah, all good feedback. Thanks. I have started cultivating some new relationships...which for me is a bit of work...both cutting people and not over analyzing is hard for me.

If ever nearby Burnsville MN let me know...

I got the same problem, especially in my 40's, good people you gel with are hard to come by sometimes.

on_wi 05-31-2017 7:58 AM

Others above have offered good suggestions on meeting the right people. I'd add one more - Head to and participate in local events. We have a small tournament that I participate in. The other riders are going to be people either with, or with access to, their own boat.
I met some other local riders at the event and there are a lot of benefits. We split boat usage based on who is available and what lake we will ride. And since we split time with the boats, there is no stress of who pays for what. It'll all end up roughly equal in the long run. It's also a much easier go when another boat owner shows up, they know the general rules and what to help out with. And there will be varying levels of skill and tricks. I've learned a lot by riding with people with a new set of tricks.

migs 05-31-2017 10:45 AM

Best "crew" members Ive found here on WW. Now they are no longer just crew mates, but great friends.

stevo8290 05-31-2017 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by migs (Post 1959952)
Best "crew" members Ive found here on WW. Now they are no longer just crew mates, but great friends.

That's how it should be

scottb7 05-31-2017 12:07 PM

I agree with above, very much. But it has not been that way for me. I would say 50% of my regulars are actual friends that I also socialize with outside wakeboarding. And the other 50% I only see when wakeboarding. I realize that this only wakeboarding group could very well be using me for rides. And I am using them to get out and ride, too. I would probably replace them if I could with actual friends. But if I could just replace them with riders with tolerable etiquette I will be very happy.

Honestly, I just want to ride, continue to progress and have a good time doing so...

Dandy21 05-31-2017 12:33 PM

Scott - I am up in the St. Cloud area. Not close, but not far. I am a fellow boat owner and we struggle to find a boat full of people as well. I don't wakeboard much any longer (and I pretty much sucked at it anyway) as I am getting older and mainly surf. That said, I simply just enjoy being out on the water so if you were simply looking for someone to drive and provide pulls on the good water, I would be happy to help out. Not sure what you run for a boat, but I am a quick learn for set ups and instruction.

If you think you may want to add me to a list of possible riders/drivers or even a contact to come up and ride some different water, shoot me a PM and I can pass along my contact information.

I feel your pain, but I learned a long time ago that D-Bags are simply not welcome aboard my boats, cars, in my home. I may not have a lot of friends, but the ones I have are all good people and understand and respect my values. I would rather not get out and ride then have some dick ruin my day. Days on the water are limited and should only be ruined by mechanical issues or weather - everything else is easy to part ways with. This is why our family has a 15' Whaler, it is a quick and easy way to get on the water if we can't get a crew together or have the time to take the tow boat out.

aricsx15 05-31-2017 1:23 PM

honestly, if you have to make this thread, they dont belong on your boat. period.

denverd1 05-31-2017 1:51 PM

^^ some truth to that. I've found *MOST* people will respond the right way, learn the rules and follow them or take a hike. pretty simple. And dude concerned about getting his $8 dollars worth needs to go, just because he's a smartass.

When I started riding, we had a solid crew of guys and their girls who'd show up with their own gear and ride till dark. They bought gas, beer, ice, whatever. helped launch/retrieve and setup/clean up. We all got older, married/kids/busy lives and the crew slowly diminished to a few die hard friends who are into it and many more tag-alongs. End of last year, had a couple from the solid crew come out with us for a fun day. When we got done, back at the house, boat cleaned and put away talking about how fun it was, one young lady from the old days said "how much do I owe you? I know boats don't run on thanks!!" I smiled and said, this one's on me you can pitch in next time.

show them the right way. if they can't pick it up in one day, delete 'em

SHotz__21 05-31-2017 3:19 PM

this is what you need...https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...5ba1005766.jpg

bcrider 05-31-2017 4:23 PM

1 Attachment(s)
On my old boat

brycejb328 05-31-2017 10:02 PM

That hurts just to read about your situation....

I used to live in Lakeville and had a pretty good crew down there. 8 years later and I am still friends with pretty much all the dudes I started riding with.

I haven't rode as much as I used to lately, but would always be down to shred with some new folks and maybe get you in the rotation with the people I have been riding with for years now.

jarrod 06-01-2017 7:32 AM

Wow! You need some new riding buddies. I would kick these fools to the curb.

buffalow 06-01-2017 9:29 AM

Funny - Most of my group is older now and we still ride 2-3 days per week. No matter who's boat we use, we always bring money & refreshments and help. There are years where we get off the boat in October and don't speak until the first warm week in the spring. We are all great friends but have insane busy lives and run businesses. Several of my regular group I found here.

relax2k1 06-20-2019 10:47 AM

Hey Scott, don't mean to bring up this old thread but curious how are your new riding buddies? :)

tre 06-20-2019 12:21 PM

Question - how old are these guys? Are they married? It seems they lack common courtesy, don't understand basic etiquette, and frankly have no manners. Most males, myself included, are a bunch of meat heads until we mature which usually includes getting married and having kids. However, there is no substitute for manners and common courtesy. Hack, my 10 year old understand more than these guys do. How does one not understand that invited gusts should not invite more gusts? I hate to say it but it sounds to me like these guys are a bunch of idiots.

I completely understand about teaching kids. I'm more than happy to teach kids when I'm expecting it and I've invited a family with kids. It does take a lot of time to get a kid up and provide instruction. I don't expect to take a set on days when I'm teaching an invited kid(s) because I know there will not be time. To bring a kid uninvited, I don't understand?

Xbigpun66 06-21-2019 4:38 PM

As I learned long ago..."if you permit it you promote it". You have to tell the no class knuckleheads how it is. If someone is invited on my boat, I expect them to ask before they bring others. Otherwise they are not coming onboard and may not get invited again. Sounds harsh but it is just common courtesy.

Kwclark 07-05-2019 1:23 AM

I quit worrying a few years back about gas money, people helping with cleanup, even shoes on my boat. If people want to help or pitchin great if not oh well. Just not worth worrying about who will pitch in to pay fo 60 to 80 bucks worth of fuel for the day when you used to blow 200 to 300 bucks a night on booze and strippers. I can go several outings or a month or two without cleaning my boat and make it look almost brand new again whenever feel like it because gelcoat is super thick so I actually tell my buddies don’t worry about wiping my boat down when we’re done because If I go out on their boat I sure as hell am not helping them either. I go out to wakeboard not polish boats all day. My point is don’t be a boat Nazi because it’s not worth ruining your time out on the water. You bought the boat not your buddies so in the end it’s your problem not theirs. The day it stops becoming fun you can always sell your boat and problem solved.


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