Okay, I have now torn my ACL in both legs (awaiting surgery for the second one) and have decided to give up the sport of wakeboarding. I have been trying to explain to my girlfriend what Im going through so I tried to put it in words and situations she can understand. <BR> <BR>I compared it to losing a child at birth. Needless to say she all but flipped out at this comparison but hear me out here... <BR> <BR>Since I was introduced to wakeboarding it has been the single most positive influence in my life. Wakeboarding is/was my antidrug. Not that I did crazy drugs or anything but I was your typical 20 year old guy, drinking 3 or 4 nights a week, randomly jailed for being a drunken retard, etc. It wasnt till I found wakeboarding that I began to give my friends grief because they didnt want to go to bed early to get up at 5 for a ride on the butter. When I wasnt boarding, I was watching videos, researching techniques and riders, scoping out the top notch gear. I made friends over the years in this community and have grown competitively with them. When Im out in the X-Star, I often times think to myself, this is what makes life worth living. <BR> <BR>Now... strip that all away. Lets talk about ACL surgery, from the moment of injury, when you hear that dreaded "pop", you know bad things are coming. You hope for the best but when the MRI results come back and you hear your doc say. "Got some bad news." your head drops and you feel that feeling in the pit of your stomach. Those who have experienced it know what I mean. Id rather be hit in the face full swing with a baseball bat then hear that horrible news. Well, this is my second ACL so I need to make a decision whether my health is worth the enjoyment I have experienced over the years. I know Im in for about 6 months of severe discomfort, with at least 6 weeks of extreme pain (surgery and rehab). Now I cant compare this to a pregnancy but from what I know of it, sounds fairly similar. <BR> <BR>Now, go through all that pain and suffering, just to have that one thing you live for and want so badly to be taken away. <BR> <BR>Obviously, since I am not a woman I cant reall make the comparison but it was the closest thing I could come up with to help her understand how depressed I am feeling. Most people just think, oh, hey dumba$$, way to go messing up your other knee, do you now finally realize how stupid wakeboarding is? You know where I tell those people to go. <BR> <BR>Please, I want to hear objective opinions on this (just out of curiosity on my part), not the pro life opinions like, "How could you ever compare a sport to the loss of a life." I agree losing a baby is tragic and Im not saying I would agree to have a baby killed to save my knee. All I am tyring to relay is that the depression and sadness felt by the mother in that situation is similar to my feelings right now. Sure I can wakeboard again if I like, sure she can have another child. Sure Ill get over the injury, and she will get over the loss. But I guarantee I will never forget the day I lost something I loved, and she will never forget the day she lost what she loved. <BR> <BR>I hope I didnt morbidly offend anyone or bring them down with this post, just wanted to get some things off my chest. <BR> <BR>Ill get by, and more than likely will not be able to keep myself away from the sport, just sucks to be so accident prone I suppose.... <BR> <BR>Peace out. Good luck to everyone, I will live vicariously through you!

Just to qualify my comparison, I am talking about losing a child at birth, not years into the future which would obviously be exponentially worse....

comparing it to something you LIVE for,Once you stop WB and you feel like you have no reason for living,I guess I would compare that to losing a child,b\c I think that's how a mother losing a child would feel.But needless to say that you still have a reason for living so the comparason pales.IMO <BR> <BR> <BR>Sorry about your knees!

Well, I blew my ACL out back in 98 and you described that whole scene pretty damn accurately. Surgery and rehab did suck, and quite honestly it was the last time I cried outside of losing a cousin and my Grandfather. I would also trade any other injury for that ACL mess, your knee is never going to be the same when you get a drill going through it diagonally so they can get to the center. <BR> <BR>Anyway, it sounds like you have the passion needed to go through the surgery and rehab again to get back out to the level you have been. Whether there are other factors involved ($$, insurance) I don't know. What I do know is if you don't have the surgery and continue to try to ride, it will not be the same. You can get the brace and it might help a little, but your knee WILL buckle on you from time to time even w/ the brace on. Then there is the fact that when you are in your 50's your knee will be hampering you in everything you do and enjoy at that point (walking, golf, whatever) because of all the wear and tear on a knee with no ACL. Me personally, I still want to be able to ride at that age, go snowboarding, play hockey and soccer and everything else I love to do. <BR> <BR>SO... suck it up and get the surgery again if you can. Down the road you will be a happier man for it. <BR>

No woman would ever resign herself to losing a child the way you are resigning yourself to a life without wakeboarding. <BR> <BR>So, to stick with your analogy, let's save this baby! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> You're talking about an ACL, not ruptured vertebrae. Get it fixed, get some knee braces, and go ride! You're only 25 man. <BR> <BR>The 49 year old in my crew obliterated his knee off the double up last June. We're talking ACL, PCL, patellar tendon, meniscus, ect. After 2 surgeries and many prescription drugs (see, it's not all bad <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>), he rehabbed hard and started riding with us in December- only 6 months later. Yeah, he avoids double ups now, but still, he charges. <BR> <BR>Keep charging!

Thanks rammer, I do plan on getting the surgery. I have great Health Insurance which I am very thankful for considering my past injuries (I played rugby for 4 years before wakeboarding... <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>I cant help but know that another really bad injury is inevitable for me if I continue to ride at the pace I do today. I hate that feeling, rolling the dice every time I go out to ride. <BR> <BR>

So, hypothetical situation, you are a woman who has had two full term pregnancies and lost both at birth, your doctors tell you you could keep going through pregnancies but you have a more than 75% chance of losing your baby the same way every time, that you would keep at it? How many times would you be able to be devastated before you chose another lifestyle? <BR> <BR>Not that I want to get all morbid on you guys, the more I think about this analogy, the more Im getting sick to my stomach.... the act itself is not similar, but the mental anguish I feel is...

sorry, the above post was directed to Matt.

Depending how bad the woman wants the baby.If there is any possibility for survival.....Why not try again,especially 25%.

Michael, <BR> <BR>I want a family bad enough that I'd probably keep trying.. at least a few times. The disappointment would be hard to deal with, but "never" isn't an option I'd be able to live with. <BR> <BR>-Amy <BR>

I agree with you Amy, I tried 3 times at WBing (broken arm, right ACL, left ACL), now Im faced with the hard decision of continuing or not... <BR> <BR>Lifes tough decisions. Im sure someone who is not into wakeboarding at all would read all this and fall out of their chair laughing that Im making such a big deal out of it... life...

That had to hurt. I can't sympathize cause that's never happened to me, but you make it sound extremely painful.

A woman who loses their baby at birth did not have a say in the matter, the choice was not hers to make. <BR> <BR>A person who quits wakeboarding because of personal reasons (not wanting to get hurt) had a say in the matter, the choice was clearly theirs to make. <BR> <BR>There is no way you can compare the loss of a human life to the choice to stop participating in a sport, IMO. <BR> <BR>Michael, get the surgury, work hard at rehab, and get back in that sweet-ass boat of yours. You don't have to get all nutz, just cruise and ride mellow. You may not be sticking the inverts you used to, but I'll bet you won't be thinking about babies dying either!<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> <BR>

Michael, <BR> <BR>If wakeboarding is what matters most to you, then I can see why this would be so difficult for you. There are things in my life that are hugely important and I would be devestated if they didn't happen or were no longer an option, so I completely understand. <BR> <BR>-Amy

Could this thread be any more depressing??? <BR> <BR>Im about ready to slit my wrists!!! <BR> <BR> <BR>Michael, <BR>Good luck with the surgery!! Dont give up the boat or the passion for riding. Take up Wakesurfing and try to find the joy in that and become the best wakesurfer around your parts. <BR> <BR>Good Luck

I'm sorry and not trying to be an a$$, but comparing blown knees and wakeboarding to losing a child is beyond dumb. I get what you're saying and all, but the analogy is pointless. <BR> <BR>Having said that and having blown up my knee and broken my leg last year to the point where it will never be right again (I can't even jog any longer), you don't have to drop what you love doing. <BR> <BR>"I cant help but know that another really bad injury is inevitable for me if I continue to ride at the pace I do today. I hate that feeling, rolling the dice every time I go out to ride." <BR> <BR>I don't know at what pace you ride, but you don't have to rehab from surgery and come out trying to throw down the biggest baddest stuff there is to have fun in this sport. Fact of the matter is if you dedicate yourself to your rehab, in a couple of years your knees should be as strong or stonger than they were before you blew them out. Having said that, I broke my leg and blew my knee on a simple HS w2w that got taken into the flats. <BR> <BR>I don't know what I'm getting at, but I think you have more options in front of you than you might think.

Suck it up man.... I ride with two guys that ruined both of their knees. One did ACL/MCL and ACL, the other did a tibia plateau fracture and ACL/MCL. Both of them are fully rehabbed and riding. One rides with one brace, the other rides with a brace on each knee. <BR> <BR>I cannot directly comment, being that I haven't done a knee (yet!!!), but I have been injured boarding on many occasions. I absolutely love to ride. There are few things short of family that I wouldn't give up to ride. That said, I still get the "rolling the dice" thing once in a while. There are times when my knees already hurt before I get in the water (arthritis at 26) and I think about the effects of a major injury (paying a mortgage sucks), but I still strap up and once I'm in the water it's the last thing on my mind. Get the surgery and get back on the water. <BR> <BR>-peace and good luck.

Dude Yeah, injury sucks, but you can get through it

I'm still waiting to hear back from my knee injury, I'm starting to hope it's not as bad as it could be now that the muscles have loosened up. One of my first thoughts was that if I'm out for close to a year I'll be getting anti-depresants in about a month. <BR> <BR>Wakeboarding is life in every breath. It's what I'm most passionate about and if I had to/have to give it up I too would/will be crushed. I don't know if I could compare it to a baby but I can say that my life would feel incomplete without it.

Thanks everyone for the comments, sorry for the super depressing thread... I figured Id have more people agreeing with me than this. It was the best analogy I could come up with that my girlfriend could even come close to imagining (seeing as she has never seriously injured herself). Probably the most obscure analogy you may have heard. <BR> <BR>I will have surgery, and I will rehab it, but considering I tore it doing a simple W2W jump, I dont have much faith that I will get too far without another injury. I will definitely give wakesurfing a try. Even thought about buying a parasail (anyone got experience with those)? <BR> <BR>This is about the only community of people I can converse with who have a clue what Im dealing with. Goes without saying again that it sucks. Thanks everyone for being candid and listening to my ravings.

I just read that while listening to some british soft rock...wow, really depressing. <BR> <BR>Maybe you could take up wakeskating. I know a guy who has bad back problems and took up wakeskating. A little more creative and easier on the joints. <BR> <BR>Wakeboarding is a great sport, but you can always participate in other ways. I always though that if I got injured bad, how would I still be able to be part of wakeboarding. I thought maybe I could start a clinic or something and take other guys out riding for like $10. I guess what I am saying, you can still give back to the sport without being a hardcore rider. <BR> <BR>Get your knee fixed and do therapy and just do wake jumps and grabs. Lay off the flips and stuff. You can still have fun without doing bs 7's.

Right now it seems like the end of the world, but you will, I guarantee, find 1, 2 or even more "things" that capture your imagination and about which you become as passionate as you are now about wakeboarding. Wakeboarding was a dream of yours. It is impossible for someone, especially like you, to stop dreaming and then going after what it is you seek next. <BR> <BR>I know where you are coming from. I loved to wakeboard, but found out two weeks ago that I have advanced degeneration in two vertebral discs, one of which herniated. I'm done. These two discs are the size of communion wafers. Even low impact crashes could cause further damage which might lead to a discectomy and spinal fusion-- if I'm not there already. I'll find out in about a month. <BR> <BR>My worldview also helps: I serve a living God, my father who is in heaven, who loves and cares for me in a deeper, more profound, more selfless way than my earthly father does and I have a great dad. In a sense, I'm excited about what is next for me because I know with an absolute certainty that it will be good. That's what Christianity is all about: Jesus setting things right between us and God so that we can get into a right relationship with God so God can do what he wants to do for us which is give us gifts and blessings that we could never attain on our own and that we don't deserve. <BR> <BR>I'm not being flip, believe me. Two months ago I spent 40k on a 2004 SANSE. Today, absent a miracle, I will never put a wakeboard on again. I know somewhat how you feel!

Me? <BR>six knee surgeries <BR>1 ACL rerouted with the help of half of my patella tendon <BR>2 meniscus playing hide and seek <BR>2 bunches of scar tissue trying to move in and were evicted <BR>1 search and recovery mission to find rogue cartilage in my knee <BR>1 tibia decided to become 2 <BR>1 metatarsal wanted a clean break from its clinging siblings <BR> <BR>All this and THEN I learned to wakeboard. My wakeboarding ain't pretty, but with the huge smile on my face, no one that rides with me really cares. They hear me laughing all the way in the boat. <BR> <BR> <BR>Oh, and Michael, I am not a Christian and do not believe in "god" per se. I live each day by the Golden Rule. My worldview is that we are all interrelated and our relationships with each other, here and now, are what are important. We should be accountable for those things we do wrong or of which we make mistakes and more importantly, we should take credit for and be responsible for those things we do well and every success we achieve. <BR> <BR>To quote: <BR> <BR>OUT of the night that covers me <BR>*Black as the Pit from pole to pole, <BR>*I thank whatever gods may be <BR>*For my unconquerable soul. <BR> <BR>*In the fell clutch of circumstance <BR>*I have not winced nor cried aloud. <BR>*Under the bludgeoning of chance <BR>*My head is bloody, but unbowed. <BR> <BR>*Beyond this place of wrath and tears <BR>*Looms but the Horror of the shade, <BR>*And yet the menace of the years <BR>*Finds, and shall find, me unafraid. <BR> <BR>*It matters not how strait the gate, <BR>*How charged with punishments the scroll, <BR>*I am the master of my fate: <BR>*I am the captain of my soul. <BR> <BR>The term "gods" is just a metaphor but the taking responsibility for one's life is a reality. So, in other words, take charge of what you want in life and go and reach for it. You may not attain some heights, but I can assure you that you will be higher than if you did nothing at all. <BR> <BR>Conceive, Believe, Achieve <BR> <BR>Louise <BR><a href="http://www.solsearch.us" target="_blank">www.solsearch.us</a> <BR>

Michael, I realize this is something akin to telling you to go buy a puppy after your dog dies, but the world is not over for you yet. Many of my hydrofoiling friends took up the sport because of knee injuries. Give foiling a try, be patient, the learning curve is a little longer. Once you figure out how to jump, the opportunities abound. Rolls, flips, spins and grabs, all currently being done with HUGE air. Sites available include <a href="http://www.foilfreaks.com" target="_blank">www.foilfreaks.com</a> , skyski.com , airchair.com , and yahoo has a group under the title hydrofoil, lots of info including riders in your area. Good Luck

Ive heard a little about hydrofoils but most of what I heard was horror stories. Is this safer than wakeboarding? Id be interested to learn a little more about it. I checked out the site you posted briefly, but Im more curious about the comparisons/contrasts to wakeboarding. <BR> <BR>Thanks!

you dont have to go there...you dont have to give up wakeboarding.... <BR> <BR>granted i am not in your shoes but i am going through my 1st acl injury( i am alot older than you and got 15 more years...and hence a lot less summers ahead of me.. <BR>btw, this would have been my first summer with a new 05 211 but i opted for acl surgery now instead of later...) <BR> <BR>would suggest giving your decision a couple more weeks till you are grounded... <BR> <BR>would suggest the following for rehab... <BR>- eat like an pro athelate (no drinking) <BR>- 12,000 mg of glucosimine complex a day (3000 mx x 4) - the othro surgeon couldnt believe how my pcl was totally healed. <BR>- get some good knee braces (cti, donjoy etc.) <BR>- work out your "legs and joints" this time and get them in shape before you ride hard...you should be at least up to 350lbs - 400lbs for free bar squats...dotn worry about your legs "getting big"..they wont unless you take steroids or are genitcally gifted... <BR> <BR>your joints will get super strong and the heavy weights will prime your hormone system for recovery. <BR>the legs are the most important body part to exercise...the quad and the ham are the largest muscle groups in the body and the joints have to be strong to support them..most people dont like working them out because they they require a lot of effort..a suggestion be to work out your ham &amp; quad seperatly(you should never work out your quads and ham together- it is too big of a muscle group) <BR> <BR>btw, when working out, the firdt year is pretty much strenghting your joints, the second year is developing your nervous system and the third year you are finally getting to hit your muscles directly... <BR> <BR>if you are super strict with you diet and training there should be no reason why your knees and joints shouldnt heal... i had a similar injury when i was 32 (was a serious body builder and suffered a severe groin pull).. it took me 6 months till i could work out my upper body and 1 year for my legs(mild) and 2 years till i could really hit my legs..now can still squat 500lbs-600lbs freebar at 40).. <BR> <BR>the morale of the story is - <BR>what happended really sucks !!! <BR>dont feel sorry for yourself... <BR>you can make it through this with dillegence and care..

Not to go into too much depth here, but I am about to go thru my 2nd ACL reconstruction in 3 years on the same knee. Sure it was a little depressing when the 2nd injury occured, but its not the end of the world. <BR> <BR>You have to look at it just like you look at wakeboarding. If you keep your head down, you are going to go down. If you keep your head up, you will complete the trick. If you keep your head down about this injury, then you have already lost the battle. If you stay positive and keep your head up, then you will be back on the board in no time. <BR> <BR>I go thru reconstruction #2 on September 13th. In the mean time, I have 8 weeks of golf, wakeskating, surfing and light wakeboarding before I get to take a break. I am going to enjoy every minute of it that I can! <BR> <BR>McFly

i'll be the a$$ in this thread...stop feeling sorry for yourself. you've gotten injured but you'll be put back together. nothing in this sport or life is guaranteed, ride when you can and be thankful for that. <BR> <BR>you've got a boat and friends, and probably more. you'll still be able to ride again if you want. spending your time concentrating on what you don't have or can't do doesn't sound like a good idea. the glass is half full, you know? <BR>

FOr sure giving up wakeboarding is not the only option. In three years, I have torn my ACL and MCL, blown my meniscus into oblivion, severley dislocated my shoulder, had a reconstructive shoulder surgery, then another, and all the while have been riding with a herniated disk in my lower back. I am 20. And guess what..... I stuck my first ts 720 yesterday. I can't walk today because of the back spasms, and the incision from my most recent shoulder surgery has been blown open too many times to count(pesky stiches), but all in all, I am stoked. There are plenty of people out there with injuries that ride because they love it, despite the risk, and the pain. And believe it or not, there are people far worse off than you and I. You need to send Danny Dean an email and apologize for even thinking that you know what a career ending injury is. And by the way, his career isn't over!! Reevaluate bro....if it still isn't worth it, then quit....I guess.

Scott I respect the live for today attitude, but I find one must also plan for tomorrow while living today. I've enough hockey injuries to nag at me and many a pressure change or morning I feel prematurely old. Granted as many people have said there are ways to remain part of the sport and active on the water without wakeboarding. There's also the other option of building up wakeboarding over a period of a few years. However many injuries can nag later in life.

Stop being a whiny baby and get over it. <BR> <BR>I have never seen such a crappy analogy. You are 25 for god sakes, many years left of boarding. As for the baby death at term......Making the kid is half of the fun!!! Keep pumping til you get it right.

Mike, sorry to hear about your crappy situation. Best of luck to ya dude! <BR> <BR>This thread takes the prize for longest posts in any thread, all you guys wrote a novel up there.....makes dumb guys like me work to get through that.

Hey, out of curiosity, does anyone have any experience boarding with a torn ACL? Im thinking about still hitting that clinic with Shaun Murray and Gerry Nunn but maybe getting some lessons on the wakeskate instead.

I've heard that Murray won't teach any skating since his skate injury. Wasn't it Watson that rode two or three of the last events of a season with a torn ACL?

I won't sympathize with you. It's not as if you actually lost a limb or became a Parapalegic. <BR>It's a ligament that can be fixed. I can say this because I'm 11wks post op ACL reconstruction. <BR>and the funny thing abut this situation is that I torn my ACL 10yrs ago. I've been playing softball and sliding on the same knee as well as wakeboarding, rollerblading and running in soft sand on the beach. I only decided to have the repair done this year because I tweeked it again playing softball this past Feb. <BR>If you can't see that there is more to life than just wakeboarding , then you have a lot of growing up to do. <BR>Good luck with your surgery.

daniel - appreciate it... <BR> <BR>i do have a question to those who have previous acl injury.... <BR> <BR>how long till you can bend your knee ? i have surgery 10 days ago and cant bend my knee..

To Phantom, appreciate the <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> For some of us, wakeboarding is more than just a sport. I will guarantee, without it, life will not be as enjoyable. This is from someone who has invested a small fortune in time and money to the sport. My plight is not the single torn ACL, its the broken collarbones, hand, arm, tibia, and 2 ACLs that I have suffered from sports that have brought me to thinking about giving it up. The support of some of the others on this thread has at least opened my eyes that there are still things I can do to stay involved without going balls to the wall on a wakeboard throwing inverts and such. I will probably pursue those other avenues. <BR> <BR>To clubmyke - I think it was 3 weeks post op that I was able to get 90 degrees flexion. It takes a long time and at 1 year now, I still cannot bend it all the way back without some pain. At 10 days I think I started walking on it with no crutches. I also did close to 3 hours a day therapy on my own, stretching and working that quad. Thats a lot of the reason Im so bummed out, that is a lot of friggin work getting back in shape and it sucks badly. Hang in there. See if you can get your PT to loan you one of those muscle stimulators. That thing is the <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> couple hours, hit it up for 20 minutes. Really does wonders for your quad. <BR> <BR>Good luck my friend...

Mike, hell i know one guy who gave it up just as he was about to land his first backroll and blew his knee...sold the boat... done deal. He had a family and fealt it wasnt worth it happening again. This of course IS a rich mans/womans sport so if you dont have something financially to lean on for a while(as your healing) as well as good insurance it could devastate you financially. I know another guy who had one previous knee gone through and almost exactly one year later thought he blew a knee again. Sold his recently purchased new wakeboard boat and said he would likely ride occasionally with others on their boats but not as much anymore. I do see where your coming from with your analogy but as in motorcycle there is a statement that goes like this "IF I HAD TO EXPLAIN YOU WOULDNT UNDERSTAND" it sure does apply. For those who say it doesnt ill refer to the statement above. We hang out with friends on the boat now about as much time as we actually wakeboard so you can do other things. The skate can bite you to. Many people have been hit or landed wrong on the skate as it aint connected like the wakeboard is. My recomendation is to just not ride like your going for pro status all the time, unless your making money at it. <BR>Good luck with your decision

For anyone interested, I have found a very good site on ACL rehabilitation. Its very aggressive but shows it is possible to rehab very quickly. I didnt do any of the stretches for the first week which is probably why it took longer for me to get the flexion. Im going to try this regimen this time. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.kneeclinic.info/rehab_markdecarlo.php" target="_blank">http://www.kneeclinic.info/rehab_markdecarlo.php</a>

good info and site !!! thanks !!!!

Since you're retiring, do you have any gear you want to sell cheap? lol <BR> <BR>Some of these posts may seem a bit harsh, but most of us have been in similair situations and have had the same feelings of anger and frustration. You'll get through it and you will ride again. <BR> <BR>BTW, I wear a size large boot and ride between a 135 and 138cm board.

Selling the following: <BR>05 Parks 140 Biolite - $315 + shipping <BR>04 L Temet bindings - $150 + shipping <BR>01 Mastercraft X-Star - $32,000 + come pick it up <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/185181.html?1119475770" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/185181.html?1119475770</a>

david d - wtf !!! are you serious ??? <BR> <BR>Michael - another thought hit me... <BR> <BR>would suggest taking l-glutamine (5mg 3 times a day.this will really help with positive nitrogen balance and minimize muscle loss and Alpha-Lipoic Acid (very effective antioxident-used quite a bit post surgery and really boosts the immune system (this stuff can kill hiv invitro !!!) <BR> <BR>once post surgery would start a creatinne cycle !!!

I will look into that clubmyke. Would you suggest waiting till surgery to load creatine, or just start it now? Do you suggest any certain kind of creatine? I know it comes in powder, pills, liquid, etc. <BR> <BR>You also mentioned to work my hamstring and quad seperately, can you suggest some excercises to do so? What not to do?

myke - see the "lol" and the following paragraph.

clubmyke- the answer to you knee flexion question depends upon : Surgeon Protocol and type of ACL reconstruction. <BR>I had an Allograft done and had full flexion and extention post-op day 2. It's getting control/staying ahead of the edema/swelling and scar tissue formation is another issue. <BR>I wouldn't recommend pushing your rehab to return to wakeboarding sooner. It takes 6-8 weeks for the bone to heal and screws to set. It takes another 3-4 months for the blood supply to establish from the bone healing. <BR>There are several articles about Tunnel lysis or enlarging (especially tibial end) due to accelerated rehabilitation. <BR>Search in American Journal of Sports Medicine or Arthroscopy: Journal of Arthroscopic and Related Surgery <BR>

Four knee surgeries myself, still doin it. Stupid, I guess, but my knees feel better now at 43 than they did when I was 20 and rehabbin. Got to know your limits, though. The NO FEAR stuff is for very stupid people. <BR> <BR>I'll probably be looking for this post when I go in for #5 ;)

wakeguru- my bad.. please accept my apology. <BR> <BR>phantom- thanks for the comeback. i'm not trying push to board sooner (so cal+ dry suit= year'round). just really, really concerned about no flexability and pain during pt (no problem on edema) had the acl and mcl repaired (acl was 30% torn, hence not replaced)..thanks for the info on the tunnel lysis.. <BR> <BR>michael - wouldnt work out the legs till the acl is healed (pre surgery).... i started working mine out pre surgery and got up to 450lb squats for sets (norm 500-600lbs for sets..my hamstring strength was way down on the injured leg.... <BR> <BR>the question is when do you want the surgery... sooner or later ??? i could have wakeboarded this summer but chose to start wakeboarding again in the winter (better water and less people).. it really depends on what is a good fit for you.. once you leg heals (i would guess 4-6 weeks) you could finish the summer with a good brace and than have surgery post wakeboarding season ( check with my sports md) but you could start the leg workout during this time... <BR> <BR>leg workout- <BR>- break it up with 3-4 days rest in between <BR>- work quad &amp; ham muscles seperatly <BR>- quad workout - this is a "typical" quad workout 14 - 16 sets avg (not including leg extension warmup) <BR>stretch 10 minutes <BR>3 sets leg extensions (warmup) <BR>front squats 3 warm up sets ( about 1 minute rest) <BR>-1 set ascending sets till max rep weight then 3 sets (2 minute rest) (ie 200 lbs x 8 reps x 3 sets. then 245 (1 set for 8 reps), then 290 (1 set for 8 reps), then 3 sets for 360 ( 2 min. rest intervals, 6-8 reps). 1 warm down set @ 290.. <BR>- hack squats (ascending sets) same as above but get a spotter to help out with negatives on max weight sets. <BR>-leg press (ascending sets but stop when max weight is reached. about 4-5 sets avg. <BR>one legged leg extensions (heavy as you can take for 3 sets) <BR> <BR>strech for 10 minutes... <BR> <BR>gotta go...more to come... <BR>

You mention leg extensions during rehab. Heres an interesting article comparing open kinetic chain exercises vs. closed kinetic chain exercise. <BR><a href="http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/kneeinj.htm" target="_blank">http://www.brianmac.demon.co.uk/kneeinj.htm</a> <BR>Im about ready to write a damn thesis on this. Muscled my way to earlier surgery. Meeting with another surgeon tomorrow morning, surger next wednesday. Im gonna smoke rehab this time. Ill post my commentary writeup soon but probably under another thread for easier searching. Ill post a link here for sure though. <BR>