What's the boat market going to look like closer to spring/summer? There's a lot of good deals out there right now, but I'm thinking the market might flood and prices will go a little lower and selection may be a little better closer to summer. It's hard not to jump on a 20K 01 X star or a 22K 02 VLX. My trigger finger is itchy. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by dirtysparks on March 10, 2009)

Now is definitely time to buy if you find the right boat for you at a price your comfortable with. Some amazing deals out there on new and used boats. <BR> <BR>Price may go a little lower but not enough that would keep me from buying now if I was in the market and found THE boat.

At some point people can only go so low before they just let the bank take it. Even the people that put 25% down have lost most of that cushion. At some point there is a breakeven level. Buy now.

pull the trigger

I don't think the market is going to be flooded with boats this summer. Production has already slowed quite a bit at nearly all manufacturers and dealers are not really ordering for their floor. <BR> <BR>If you find a deal, buy now.

I agree with Erik. As soon as you see the boat you want at the price you like, buy it.

Everyone is looking to sell the boat and still get winter money so the prices are the lowest now. Come spring and the warm weather you will see prices go up a bit. I know of dealers looking to really move leftover boats.

If you find a deal buy it. There are def some deals out there New and Used. <BR>Plus the Summer will be over before you know it, you'll be a year older and so on and so on... <BR>Live life now! Go out on the boat and Screw the economy.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

That's what I'm deciding on....is there going to be more boats trying to be unloaded because of the economy in the near future. I'll be buying for this season either way, just depends on when and what I get.

what I've noticed is during the offseason the buyers looking for the steal are the ones most active. Closer to spring you get a better mix of buyers who might be willing to pay more. I'd be looking to buy before it gets too much warmer.

Yesterday is history. <BR>Tomorrow is a mystery. <BR>That is why today is called the Present. <BR> <BR>Go buy a boat.

Buy my boat! haha

You can't jam T-pain's "I'm on a boat" unless you have a boat. <BR> <BR>"is there going to be more boats trying to be unloaded because of the economy in the near future" <BR>If people/dealers are going to be affected, then are already feeling it. Also keep in mind that boat ownership is a luxury. Most owners couldn't give a rats ass what the economy is doing b/c they're going to own a boat anyway. And they're not going to sell for any reason. <BR> <BR>Of course, you have people who have been affected and there boats are on the market right now, and have likely been there for several months. <BR> <BR>You're also going to see an increase in purchases once everyone realizes the sky isn't really falling. With a little job security, they'll be looking to get back into one, especially since there are some deals out there.

I'd wait because I already have a boat and I think things really haven't bottomed yet. I think Nacho is way off in his reasoning that a little job security will drive boat sales or that people, and dealers, will keep expensive toys to avoid a loss on paper. The banks are not loaning money to anyone without perfect credit and there isn't any home equity to borrow against so where is the money going to come from? ALL of the last two stimulus' could easily be absorbed into the retail mortgage market and that wouldn't touch the losses in the commercial real estate side or the derivative market. This is going to take a while to get out of so if your choice is 'buy now or in two months' you might as well buy now if you like the boat because you are thinking fairly short term anyways. <BR> <BR>I'm a little shocked that everyone but me thinks that there are fantastic deals out there. Compared to what? The incredibly high prices of two years ago?

John, "credit" doesn't flow like it used to, but every banker i talk to says "go buy something, You'll get financed."

Our local market looks good, credit unions here are looking to loan money so I think I'll still get good rates and I've got a sizeable down payment. <BR> <BR>As far a prices being lower, I didn't think I'd be able to find a loaded 02 vlx for 22 grand a year ago. <BR> <BR>If it comes down to it, I'll bite, but I guess I don't have a problem with waiting a little bit either. As long as it's the right boat.

If you find the "right" boat and pass on it, what are the odds you will find another "right" boat within the next 2 months.

<b>I've got a sizeable down payment</b> <BR>Beautiful. Enjoy your summer.

This is just my thought based on nothing more then assumption. Lets say you are looking at a 2005 X-Star. Now lets say the guy bought the boat for 60K, and lets say he was a responsible buyer and put 25% down. That leaves a balance of about 48K. Now if he financed it for 7years then that leaves him a balance currently of about 45k or so. I saw a an '05 Xstar for sale for 42K the other day. Owners just don't have much room before they just let it get repoed.

how does repo work?...do they just take your stuff and you're S.O.L.... it seems to me I would rather sell and make something on it/break even than have it taken.

For the "right boat" it could be one of 100 different boats that suit my needs, I'm not getting married to it. Unlike a wife, if it pisses me off I'll just shut it in the garage instead of listening to it's insecent yapping. <BR> <BR>If nobody's buying boats at market value and they've got 45K left on their loan, they're upside down. If they can't keep payments up, bank repos it, auctions it, and I buy it. Saw a 2004 MB 220V loaded go for 22500 a few weeks back. I guess they won't get much cheaper than that. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by dirtysparks on March 10, 2009)

Nick, <BR> true but people can't break even they owe to much. <BR> <BR>DS, <BR>If you are looking to buy a repo that could be a different question, but IMO I wouldn't buy a repo who knows what you are getting, just like a foreclosed house people wreck them once they know the bank will take it.

If you want to ride this summer then now is the time to buy. If you can wait, I think next fall &amp; winter will be better. I don’t think you will see much better deals, but I do think you will see a lot more deals to choose from. There are still a lot of people with boat worth denial. Look at WW classifieds, many of the boats are over priced. I could buy new for the price some are asking.

Selling a boat right now is a nightmare. I am looking at eating the pmts for a year and then trying again. The value has been driven down way to far by the market. Why would a buyer look at a 1-3 year old boat with 200 or so hours on it when for a couple thousand more or in some cases the same price pick up a new boat? Dealers are willing to give away a boat to get it off their floorplan and avoid the interest pmts which are only going to go up. <BR> <BR>This whole market is ridiculous. I have been laid off twice, I am trying to sell my house, boat and truck to take a job in metro DC for less money.

^^^Sorry to hear that Nick, hope things pick up for you buddy....

Nick I hope things come around for you and your family.

Nick, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles and I hope things come around for you but the market is only a nightmare if you are a seller. Buyers are smiling. They don't think the prices have been driven down too far just yet.

DS <BR>If you have the cash or loan. do it before its to late. <BR>You will be sooo happy that you got a smokin deal in 2009. <BR>Don't wait

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/677125.jpg" alt="nada"> <BR> <BR>Yea prices are whacked right now.

now is the time to buy a boat if you have the extra money laying around. so many dealers are closing out 08 boats that are brand new.

Another positive to buying a boat right now (particularly if you are planning to go used) is that with a down economy, some people may not maintain their equipment like they were before. As of right now, boats in cold climates should have been properly winterized, and people probably have been relatively well taken care of. I woudln't necessarily count on this going forward, especially with people who know they are facing losing their stuff. Talk to about any auto mechanic, and they will tell you that people are skipping routine maintenance to save some money. I could see the same happening with boats. Just a thought.

I say buy a new boat now.The market won't recover this year but supply will be down and in turn drive prices back up.

but if you have a boat u cant really get what its worth right now

I have come across some amazing deals in my opinion. 05 VLX 94 hours 34 grand right in my home town. 06 Enzo 23 ft loaded for 29 grand. I mean I can only go by what I am used to seeing out there but if I were in better shape and didn't think the economy was going to get worse i would pull the trigger right now. I am used to about a 500 per month payment for my boat so getting an 06 Enzo for 29 grand and having my payment at around 300 would sound like nothing. I am just not convinced this is the bottom. In fact i am looking for things to get severely worse in 09.

i dont know about that motor in the 08 x star. a 310? seams small

When that X-star came out in late 2007 (18 months ago), I am sure that it would sell at least 75K. So the guy who bought it still owes 55K on it. Now there are dealers out there selling X-stars for barely more than he owes on his used ones. It puts people who bought new 2 years ago in a very difficult position. <BR> <BR>As stated above, prices have not dropped well on those boats 2 years old because most guys can't sell for less than they owe (if they had the money to cover the difference, then they probably would not be selling, duh!) If you find a repo, that is where the deals are on the newer boats, not with private sellers as much. <BR> <BR>To directly answer the thread starter's question, it depends on whether or not he is buying 2-3 year old boats that cannot be sold for what they owe, or 5-6 year boats. 2-3 year old boats will not go lower, IMO, because new boat production has slowed dramatically, which will buoy those newer boats' prices a little. I am not sure what will happens with the 5-6 year old boats, they will probably just continue to follow the economy, for worse or better

I just say buy a boat so I can ride behind it! HAHA Before you know it'll be summer and I'll have to be pulling you around behind the truck redneck style!

all eyez: run a nada report (nadaguides.com) its really the only choice if you look in the detailed list its 5.7-8.1L displacement.

Talltigeguy,retailers are banking on used boat sales this year and in turn driving the auction prices up a bit.Then you have people like me who would love to sell and buy new but are not willing to give what I have away.I went to a few auctions this year and the attitude there is not becoming of the economic reality.Big cruisers and others are selling cheap but used wakeboats are going up.

I'm going to disagree a little with talltigguy a bit in his thinking that owners won't sell for less then they owe. Remember that they are really not the owner, the bank is, so if the bank is offered a deal where the loan goes away with say a 10% loss or they are forced to repo they will very likely take deal #1. <BR> <BR>I love William's post above,"but if you have a boat u cant really get what its worth right now". Of course you can William, you just can't get what you think it's worth. The buyer will certainly pay what he thinks it's worth. <BR> <BR>I agree with Flight007 that we may not have reached bottom yet and even when we do there will still be a lot washing down stream. Of course I'm shocked at the recent Dow rally so what do I know.

^^^ John I agree but I don't think deal #1 is on the table yet in regards to boat loans, that option is barely making its way to home owners, I doubt it goes to boat loans. I could be wrong, but I would be surprised if banks are offering that as an option.

Another thing to remember is that you can Not add for things that are standard on the boat. So you need to delete the tower, ballast, racks, extended pylon and cruise control from that x-star price. If it comes on the boat it is not a "add".

Banks will never offer it. But, if a current owner needs to sell and makes that offer to their bank they would be foolish to say no. I was just pointing out to talltigguy that buyers determine price too not just sellers so the fact that a seller owes more than the boat is worth is meaningless to the value of their boat.

John, <BR> <BR>Interesting point. I have never heard of it happening, but for those guys out there who are upside down in the boat, it might be interesting to go in and say: I can give you 45K for my boat, even though I owe 50K, otherwise your only option is to repossess it. I think they would still put a huge black mark on your credit, and you would then be out of a boat. <BR> <BR>It would seem to make more sense to the owner to keep the boat without making payments as long as possible...and keep using it. <BR> <BR>A guy up the street from me is garaging a boat for a friend of his so the repo guy can't find it. I think that is illegal, but just thought I would throw that out there.

John, If you have $45000 laying around, why worry about a boat payment??? Very strange scenario... <BR> <BR>Timing the ultimate buy point seems kinda silly. If you could 20% less than traditional market value, why not?

It is illegal if he knows that's why he's doing it. My way of dealing with the bank will make them much happier to deal with you in the future. Do you really think hiding a boat isn't more of a black mark on your credit VS being honest with your banker and making a deal everyone can live with? The credit reporting aspect can always be part of the negotiating so why start out by worrying about it.

lol @ short saling a boat.

I just sold my boat, and loss some money, but I got such a good deal on a new boat that I think it works out great! Plus interest rates are so low, I think it's a no brainer, it's buying time!

exactly, only real difference is that you are paying less taxes and less interest.

There is a difference between selling a boat at a loss from what you think it is worth, and selling a boat for below the loan amount...most people can't afford to do that.

Nacho, you missed the point. Sorry I did not make what John is saying clear. You could approach the bank and say 'I can sell this boat for 45K and give you the money, even though I owe 50K, or you can come repo the boat and get 40K for it at the auction'. <BR> <BR>I still don't think they would go for it, but that is what John is suggesting, and it is an interesting idea for sure. <BR> <BR>My neighbor knows that the repo man is searching for the boat. I don't quite know how he still considers himself a Christian sort of fellow, but that is way off topic here.

Gotcha. Yea, I don't think that would work either.

My wife used to work for a Credit Union, they would work out a personal loan for what you owed on the difference of what you could sell the car/boat/rv for and what you owed, IF you had good credit. Call the bank, they don't want your boat/car/RV. It's a loser for them.

Oh crap, I bit! 2001 Wakesetter...now I just need to wait for it to get here!

MLS, perfect pass, racks, tower, bimini, no wedge though... <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/679226.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/679227.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/679228.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/679229.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/679230.jpg" alt="Upload">

Dude I can't wait to see this thing! Your probably the coolest kid in town now!<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0> Well I guess when I'm there with you, you'll be atleast<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

Why are the trailers back East always so <a href="mailto:d@mn">d@mn</a> ugly?

David- I was wondering the same thing cause up here you barely ever see a galvanized trailer. Is it cause of the salt water? Which this boat has never seen before. Atleast we'll know what trailer it is! haha

florida boat + galvy trailer = salt <BR> <BR>No matter what the prev owner says!

Jeff, <BR> I just want to know how to earn $100k from home! (sorry I just had to) Great looking boat man. <BR> <BR>Rya

Nacho...he says it's never been in salt, the engine pics look damn clean so either he's telling the truth or takes good care of it. <BR> <BR>RT, send $39.95 cash and I'll let you in on a little secret <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

Engine pics...I see no signs of rust. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/685559.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/685560.jpg" alt="Upload">

I would say now is definitely the time to buy. Prices are lower on boats than I have ever seen. When the next batch of new boats (especially here in Cali) hit my showroom, they are going to be quite a bit more, due to catalyst etc. I just sold a brand new Supreme 212 for $29k w/ full factory warranty (not a repo). I would say now is a great time to buy!!

Keep in mind the source (an advocate for the boating industry &amp; sales): <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.boattest.com/Resources/view_news.aspx?NewsID=3283" target="_blank">http://www.boattest.com/Resources/view_news.aspx?NewsID=3283</a>

Save your money... things are going to get a lot worse, like it or not, and our socialist President Yourmama can't do a thing about it. Inflation is going to go through the roof, it has to, and the housing market and problems with the banks is going to get a lot worse. Save your money and buy guns and spam. <BR> <BR><a href="http://mises.org/story/3390" target="_blank">Inflation</a> <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.businessinsider.com/henry-blodget-mortgage-crisis-over-please-its-just-beginning-2009-3" target="_blank">Mortgage/Bank Trouble</a> <BR> <BR>Already here: <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/685608.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR>Already here plus what's around the corner... <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/685609.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>Make fun of me all you want, things are going to get really tough!!

First, I don't have any debt except for the $119K loan on my primary residence. But am I the only person who has been taught something by our latest economic problems? <BR> <BR>I bet Mr. John Gardner, based on his age, has learned a few things over the years. <BR> <BR>John, <BR>Do you really have a Rayson Craft? I new Rudy Ramos very well. I owned Rudy Ramos built GN powered by a hemi.. Everyone called it the Bastard Elephant Boat!

"so if the bank is offered a deal where the loan goes away with say a 10% loss or they are forced to repo they will very likely take deal #1. " <BR> <BR>They might, and would be smart to do so, but you are still on the hook for the deficieny. Although a payment on a 10K loan is a lot better than a 50K loan.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By Paul (psudy) on Wednesday, April 08, 2009 - 1:38 pm: <BR> <BR>"so if the bank is offered a deal where the loan goes away with say a 10% loss or they are forced to repo they will very likely take deal #1. " <BR> <BR>They might, and would be smart to do so, but you are still on the hook for the deficieny. Although a payment on a 10K loan is a lot better than a 50K loan.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>That is highly unlikely... The bank will most likely 1099 you for the $10K (Ghost Income) than try to collect the $10K from you. They want the loss to be gone with quick as possible.

Depends on the situation. If the borrower is cooperative, they will usually try and work it out. If not, then its a repo, and court for deficiency judgement, after the sale.

Paul, <BR>What are your thoughts on buying a boat in the current market? <BR> <BR>I see that you are the Vice President of Mortgage Lending at the bank, how is the market in Kansas? Does your bank typically hold mortgages or do they sell them? Are you saying that your bank does not do the 1099 deal? My wife is a VP at Wells Fargo, and they are doing the 1099 on almost every short sale situation they are doing. Is your bank giving out boat loans, if so what are the typical terms?

dirtysparks, that engine is clean! <BR> <BR>Sam, things may or may not get worse. time will tell. I don't agree that someone shoudl put off a boat purchase b/c of toxic assets in the financial industry. If someone is in a position to buy (nice down payment, steady income and good credit) its a buyers market all day long. Inventories are still there but new production has fallen off a cliff. There's a finite number of boats out there and they're cheap right now. If I was upgrading, I'd be all over it.

I think Nacho is on to something. I've been watching our local Sanger dealers inventory shrink and some of those great deals he had are gone. hope it's not to late for me

My point is, will the economy get bad enough where you will regret having a boat payment or where you will need that money elsewhere? I think things are lot worse than just "toxic assets in the financial industry", I personally know many, many people who are either out of work or working at jobs that are way, way below the level that they are qualified to work at. I think the REAL unemployment level is over 10%. A lot of people have given up and others are working below what they would regularly work at or have multiple part time or crappy jobs, the unemployment numbers don't include these people. <BR> <BR>I would save my money. Before the depression my granddad saved a bunch of money for college tuition. During the depression it was that college tuition money that allowed the family to keep the farm. He didn't ever go to college, but we still have the family farm. I would hate to lose the house or anything else because of the fact I had a boat payment that I couldn't get rid of.

Y'all need to quit worrying and go boating

I will say that there was a state wide jobs fair, here in NH. They expected 3 to 5 thousand people. More then ten thousand showed up. I agree that Americans as a whole spend way to much then they can afford. My family has always gone by the principle of being able to live off one income. I should say survive. That meaning we could pay for the basics, mortgage, utilities, food. If one of us lost our income it would mean, no cable, no cell phone, no eating out, and no gas for the boat. I do feel that those of us that can afford the extras in life should indulge. It is only with continued buying and borrowing that this market will rebound. If all of those who have money hide it away, when the dust settles there will be nothing left to buy.

Sam, <BR>Since I just bought one, I would say that my thoughts are favorable<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>! <BR> <BR>The market in KS has held quite well. We never saw the hyper appriciation on homes, so the values never got out of hand. We have seen a slight decrease in values, but nothing drastic. We sell most of our mortgages because we are a small bank, and don't want the interest rate risk. We don't have any foreclosures or repos on our books now, but with the values staying strong and our collateral margins, we usually come out whole on the few that we have had in the past. The nice thing about being a small bank, is the fact that we can work with people if they hit tough times, and would rather not have to repo, or foreclose if we don't have to. <BR> <BR>Yes we do boat loans, but we won't give 15y fixed rates on them. I never understood why banks would do it in the first place. A 15y fixed rate on a depriciating asset is not smart. Since boats tend to cost more than autos, we will stretch the Am on them, but typically the rate will adjust in 72m. As far as rates, it depends on the borrower. Strong borrowers get strong rates because they are less risk. I did a boat loan for a guy a few months ago at 5.5% but he was rock solid. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by psudy on April 11, 2009)