what do you think i should start with? <BR>in your opinion which one is easier? <BR>thanks <BR>

hey, i was about to ask that same question. i am dedicated to learning an invert this summer, i busted my butt trying tantrums last year and never really got it consistantly. i wanted to learn a tantrum badly, but now i just want to learn to do any kind of a flip. is thier an easier one that i should start with?

Well most people say to do the backroll first, then tantrums, but I did tantrum first, because it just appealed to me, but I do think that backrolls are easier.

How much height should I have consistently when jumping wake to wake before I try an invert? ...Man this is going to hurt!

Don't really need to be concerned about the height, just the form (strong body position). Try a couple, it really doesn't hurt (I've been worked more on bs180s than any invert) <BR> <BR>(Message edited by socalwakepunk on March 27, 2003)

Hopefully the weather will clear up here a little and I will be able to try some this weekend. Thanks for the encouragement. I'll post how things go if I get on the water this weekend.

Cool!

Ah, the age old question.... tantrum or backroll. It all depends on who you ask. I'm trying to ask the same thing, but again, I get so many different answers I just need to pick one and try it. I ended last summer with a bunch of backroll attempts. I came close a few times, but wasn't very comfortable at all. I seemed very out of control. After watching my video, I don't seem all that out of control, just seems like I need a little more pop and and pull the handle in a little more to quicken the rotation. All easier said than done, but now it's getting to be riding season again here in Indiana (we're hoping for next weekend), and I'm thinking of just going out and trying tantrum to see if that feels a little more comfortable. I guess my point is, I've tried backrolls, and the falls do not hurt, and I'm assuming the tantrum misses don't hurt either, so why not go out and try a couple of both. See which one seems a little more comfortable, then stick with that one til you can stick it everytime. Then move on to the other.... Just my .02

Well. I went out this weekend. It looks like I'm going to be doing a lot of catching up on the old stuff before I have any backroll attempts. After taking the winter off and buying a new board, I can barely jump wake to wake. ...sigh. so depressing...

It is possible for the backroll to<font color="0000ff"><b>} be brutal trust me<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0></b></font>

Backroll crashes are nowhere near as bad as tantrum crashes. <BR> <BR>When you're learning tantrums, it's known as "ankle breaker".

HS Backroll for sure. I worked on the trampoline with rope for a while before trying it but I stomped it on the third try. Almost can land it switch now. <BR> <BR>I have knocked the <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> of myself learning tantrums but the HS backroll was more forgiving. <BR> <BR>Chris

Whoops. Guess you cannot use naughty words. The word bleep'd is synonomous with poop and starts with an "s". And have had plenty of it knocked out of me trying those damn tantrums. <BR> <BR>Chris <BR>

Learning Tantrums is a PAINFUL process

If you are comfortable doing backflips off the side of your boat, diving board, etc. I say tantrum - that was easiest for me to learn. One word of advice, don't half-ass it, if you are going to throw the trick, throw it - I saw a broken nose and 17 stitches from a knee to the face for doing it half ass. NOt trying to scare you, I landed one after about 10 or so tries, without any real painful falls, just throw the trick and don't be scared of it

Yeah it hurts more when you do it half ass, the under rotation is the worse. You land on your head or upper back in an inverted position. If you go balls to the wall and miss it, it doesn't really hurt.

I have tried the Tantrum on three different weekends - spraining both ankles in each of the three attempts. How do you get any height when doing the tantrum? I dont think I am standing tall at the wake but how do you force yourself to do so? Believe me - I dont do anything half ass (at least not on purpose).

u guys just scared the s*hi*it outta me and now im scared of trying tantrums... lol <BR> <BR>i still cant do the back roll, have been trying all summer (last 2 months) and its almost over. <BR> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":-(" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>~Jesse

Jesse - buy a helmet and a jock strap (not kidding) and keep trying. Eventually you will get both of them. Lessons are definetly worth the money if you have access to them.

Cut hard into the wake and don't let go with your back hand until after you think you should - the longer you wait to let go and the tighter you keep the rope to your body the more pop you will get - good luck, and at least you are getting all the way around to sprain your ankles and not landing on the back of your head.

that didnt help jim... jock strap? lol... good thing i didnt go out and start trying tantrums before all of this. <BR> <BR>and by the way, i took lessons already. i took 2 lessons that cost me $40 canadian for 20 min on the water each lesson <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":-(" BORDER=0> and they tried to teach me backrolls. the main thing that bothered me is that they told me to reef the handle out past my leading hip, and behind me as i hit the wake. i noticed that most people on wakeworld say to keep the handle tight into my crotch area. it makes sense since that is the point the axis should be. i was even told by another person that your handle is suppose to go in a big circle through the trick. <BR> <BR>hopefully this is making sense to you... this weekend i gonna try keeping my handle close to my crotch through the whole spin. maybe ill finally get the stupid backroll after 2 months of trying .........so frustrating <BR> <BR>~Jesse

Jesse - I am not kidding about the jock strap haha. Doing backrolls or big jumps I have landed hard enough or slipped out where my butt/crotch area hit the water hard! On at least two occasions I thought I had torn "the boys" completely off - so I invested in a jock strap haha. <BR> <BR>You wont have that problem doing the Tantrum though - coming down from a different angle. You just have to worry about spraining your ankles. <BR> <BR>I have learned a little about the tantrum recently though - ensure that you stand tall going up the wake vs. leaning back into the flip - this will give you the height to get around. <BR> <BR>Dont feel bad about the backroll - I wish it was only 2 months for me. I tend to agree with the Canadians about keeping the handle back behind your hip b/c I noticed that if I had the handle in front of my crotch area that I would land perpendicular to the boat and of course that is not going to work out at all. After watching myself do that on video several times I started letting go with my back hand to straighten myself out which caused the board to land too parallel to the boat causing me to land on my butt. You can see video of it in trick tips - you'll have to scroll down a little for it though. <BR> <BR>I am pretty sure that two hands on the handle and keeping it back is key. <BR> <BR>Another thing - how are your w2w jumps. Are you landing them at least as big as your backrolls? Another problem that I had was that I was not going big in my w2w before I went big with the backrolls - in other words, I didnt know how to land a big jump before I threw a roll into it. Kind of like running before walking. <BR> <BR>Hope this helps

thanks a lot... yah i can get a lot of air... but im hit and miss there. sometimes i only get about 3 feet... but sometimes i get around 5 feet high! my boat is a barefooting tournament boat, so the wake sucks and holding speed is murder. we loaded the boat up with 20 water jugs (hold about 5 gallons each) so now the wake is pretty good... but holding speed is still hard because it is a long skiiny boat with an outboard. the hull of te boat is designed to hold speed best at 40 mph, and it is meant to diffuse the wake for the barefooter. i have a feeling im not always consistent with air because of the boat changing speed/wake all the time. <BR> <BR>anyways, back to the point... i always land w2w jumps, and half the time i get real high! im definately really close to landing backroll, but i always end up landing slightly on my heel edge and i fall back. thats why i thought id try keeping the handle in to my crotch. it almost seems like i need to be more perpendicular to the boat.

the boat probably does not help much. Try looking up "wakeboard" on EBay and you will find all kinds of fat sacs with pumps for very little money.

Jesse where did you take those lessons?

yah we're getting fat sacs for next summer :D <BR> <BR>and i took my lessons at McClintocks Ski School at Pushinche lake (i think its called). u been there?

Yeah I've been there, thats where I first learned how to wakeboard. It's not my fav lake, it's shallow and theres not much room. They don't have towers on their boats there do they? If they do then I wasen't paying attention obviously.

not towers, skylons. i have a skylo on my boat too. same rope height etc ...just a pole instead of a full tower. <BR> <BR>and the seaweed is wonderful and friendly there eh!

Egh, I hate seaweed, thats one reason why I don't like that lake. I also didn't have luck in the grand, I went through a patch of seaweed, it was horrible.

i havent seen any seaweed at all in the 22 mile stretch that i ski. its just a muddy bottom

yeah the bottom is really muddy too

does any one know whether a front or back roll is easier?

Back roll is easier to do, but front roll is easier to conceptualize.

front is harder apparently