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Government shutdown affecting your riding?
Is anyone else effected by the government shut down. Here in Vegas Lake Mead is a national park so no riding for us until these screwballs agree on something. It's a bummer since this is one of the nicest times of the year to be on the water with little to no winds.
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I feel ya. And just think when you can't ride locally the economic impact. they loose out on the $20 launch fee. Your not buying food for the day & Gas. Its small but it adds up. They were saying Yosemite National Park here in California generates 4 Million dollars a year for the state. But yet its shut down today. So a division of the government that actually makes money is shut down BUT departments like congress that cost us thousands and got us in this mess are open for business.
On one hand It makes sense. I cant stay in business if I spend more then I take in So why should government. |
David- You don't have a ramp on Lake Mead not controled by the government?
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David I hear ya, I was looking to get out this weekend! My question is, who is going to be there to stop us from riding if gov't employees are not working??
I paid for a yearly pass and the gives me access to the lake, if that access is denied shouldn't I be rewarded a refund?? |
Nope no access at all. All ramps are within the park and I was told that all entrance fee stations will be barricaded. They gave anyone camping or lodging within the park 48 hours to get out. I thought there was no fee station if you went through Overton so maybe going that route you could still launch out of echo bay. They also said all rangers would still be patrolling so I'm sure they would stop that.
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Sounds like Washington politicians are trying to make an impact. Rangers are working to keep you out instead of just letting you in.
They did the same thing today at a free access monument in Washington. They put barricades around it to keep tourists away and then posted extra employees-more than when it is open- to keep people out. |
Not riding this weekend but I'm headed to Moab for some mountain biking and jeeping. No Arches National Park for me though. I've seen it a million times but my brother in law is coming with and he hasn't been there before. I guess we'll have to settle for Corona Arch.
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and lot's of businesses run in the red G. Look at Applebee's. The gov isn't allowed to make money. Examples: The post office used to be a profit center but they found a way to fix that by refusing to raise the price of stamps and providing that ridiculous requirement for 70 years of retirement benefits. Then there's Fannie and Freddie. They were trouble during the housing crash but they've been making huge money over the past few years. The big banks that we bailed out are getting all kinds of bent because Fannie and Freddie are earning money that they feel entitled to. The same people that say the government should be run like a business are the same ones that get pissed when the government runs like a business. Hopefully the jokers in congress can get it together before any un-repairable damage Is done. Sorry about your riding spots getting shut down.
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Nothing changing here in texas.... Is there a government shut down?
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Nope, I guess we don't even need the federal government, doesn't bother me, and why do we need the Post office? just a big jobs program I guess.
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Vegas guys- The park is shut down. We have customers getting stopped by the Ranger saying they need to head in and get off the lake. All of Lake Mead down to Laughlin is part of the Federal park.
We decided to still enjoy our hobby this weekend. Since we can't go on the lake, we're going to pull boats on trailers up and down Las Vegas Blvd Sunday. It happens to be a legal roadway that happens to still be open to the public and perhaps it will send a message if 100 boats are trailered up one of the busiest roads in America. Let me know if you want details of when and where we will be "driving around looking for a place to use our boats." Dan@boulderboats.com |
I guess that UPS and FedEx must be jobs programs too. We all know there's no money in delivering documents and packages. Just ask DHL how they have generously provided jobs to people at the expense of the company's owner. That's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen typed in my life.
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I'm currently vacationing in NC close to the Smokey Mountains National Park. Yesterday they told all the campers they had till 6pm to get out. We can't even drive through the park. Completely shut down. There are people who came from all over the world to see our National Parks and our dips**t politicians can't get their crap together. Vote out incumbents.
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My question is, how is it a shutdown if they're still paying the rangers to stay and keep people out? The government at that point is still running, just pissing off citizens.
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The federal employees that are still working aren't getting paid until they fix this mess. Then they get the back pay for what they worked when it goes back to normal. Hopefully their banks and creditors are understanding until they get paid again. Also their sick leave and vacation has been cancelled during this time. My friend who is still working bought tickets from San Diego to Boston for next week. The government told him he can't go due to shutdown. Has to eat the tickets unless they solve this soon.
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You guys have a launch fee!? Yikes.... Never even heard of that.
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yep totally effecting my riding. Ive had a big weekend where some friends are flying into town and we were supposed to go camping out at Lake Mead....looks like i'll be spending my money elsewhere.
On a side note i am going to try and roll "Muscles" down Las Vegas Blvd on our way home from the water on Sunday.... |
"The federal employees that are still working aren't getting paid until they fix this mess."
This isn't true. It would be considered volunteering if they are not getting paid and that is expressly prohibited in the Antideficiency Act |
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Thank Harry Reid - he and Pelosi are the retards that shut your lakes down.
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This is true Josh.
3/4 of the US doesn't want Obamacare, yet they refuse to repeal it, and want to fund it by raising taxes on everyone. It's the lynch pin in the budget disagreements. They disapprove tax payer funding for the program that the tax payers don't want and the rest of the budget is approved, government goes back to work. Those two are two of the biggest proponents that wanted the shutdown because they won't budge on it. Not to mention it is unconstitutional to force citizens to buy any product or penalize them if they choose not to, which is exactly what Obamacare does. It's like the mafia "protection" racket. |
Josh, that is the most ignorant thing said on Wakeworld and that is saying a lot.
Regardless of how you feel about Obamacare, it has passed into law. What they are supposed to be doing now is setting up a budget not trying to pass laws. This would be akin to saying we not approving a budget until Abortion is illegal, everyone has a gun in their homes, and the tax rate is 5%. Those might be your goals but they have no place in the budget talks. It is LAW, deal with it!! If you want to change that law, then you need to use the Change the law process not try to blackmail your way into it by holding the government hostage. If congress was allowed to vote today a temporary budget would pass, the only person that is keeping that vote from happening is John A. Boehner. He has the authority to put the temporary budget to a vote and keep things running. He doesn't have to thought because the way his district if jerrymandered he has such a crazy republican base that there is no way he can lose an election. To blame anyone else is simply factually false. |
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^The USPS is constitutionally mandated.
, Surf addict, Obamacare was ruled Constitutional last summer by the SC. You may not agree with the ruling, and if there is a majority of justice conservatives the ruling may be reversed, but until then, it is the law of the land. |
this is what we got in TX
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/06/nu6umaba.jpg Sent from my iP5s on an app called tapatalk 2 |
You can stop blaming Obama for the "Shutdown". It's been renamed to "Slimdown" and the GOP are taking credit.
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Currently, we are the world reserve in money. What this means is that other countries have to exchange their money into dollars to buy things worldwide. For example, if Germany wants to buy oil in the Middle East, it changes its currency into dollars to buy the oil. As a result, we are able to print money as fast as we want without backing it with gold, but what happens if the rest of the world decides to make another currency the world reserve? We have nothing backing the dollar then and it becomes worthless. This year, China has signed deals with 8 or 10 other nations to begin dealing in another currency other than the dollar. IMHO, this weak dollar policy—in combination with reckless spending and no accountable--is destructive and could have devastating results if something is done, but the Shutdown will have to end soon because no one wants to default.
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Right on target with that Ron T.
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Playing politics with peoples lives because something was voted on, passed and is now the law of the land is despicable. Fund the damn thing and try and overturn it later, or wait and see if the results are as devastating as they think. Then it will be Obamas fault and they can finger point.
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Seems that a dose of reality has appeared here. I completely agree with Ron and Paul. The will of the people through elections is the method for changing law. Protests are for the citizens, not Congress.
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Well... 0.0025% of it. But why quibble over such small differences. ;)
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Sad..all the parks in Canada are still open :p
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None of it will matter anyway, according to the congressman from the great state of MN:
“This happened and as of today the United States is willingly, knowingly, intentionally sending arms to terrorists, now what this says to me, I’m a believer in Jesus Christ, as I look at the End Times scripture, this says to me that the leaf is on the fig tree and we are to understand the signs of the times, which is your ministry, we are to understand where we are in God’s end times history," Michelle Bachmann told Jan Markell, radio host of "Understanding the Times," on Saturday. “Rather than seeing this as a negative, we need to rejoice, Maranatha Come Lord Jesus, His day is at hand...And so when we see up is down and right is called wrong, when this is happening, we were told this; that these days would be as the days of Noah. We are seeing that in our time. Yes it gives us fear in some respects because we want the retirement that our parents enjoyed. Well they will, if they know Jesus Christ.” |
hmmm... So I take it you're a believer of the Muslim Faith?
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Faith in fabric? Oh wait that's muslin. My sister, a Pentecostal would flip out when I criticized Bush over his idiotic escapades in the ME back when he was President. She told me I needed to read Revelations to understand what was going on. Apparently she was cheering for the end of the world so she could be with Jesus. :p
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So, Imagine that the company you work for held a poll, and asked everyone if they thought it would be a good idea to put a soda machine in the break room. The poll came back, and the majority of your colleagues said “Yes”, indicating that they would like a soda machine. Some said no, but the majority said yes. So, a week later, there’s a soda machine.
Now imagine that Bill in accounting voted against the soda machine. He has a strong hatred for caffeinated soft drinks, thinks they are bad you you, whatever. He campaigns throughout the office to get the machine removed. Well, management decides “OK, we’ll ask again” and again, the majority of people say “Yes, lets keep the soda machine.” Bill continues to campaign, and management continues to ask the employees, and every time, the answer is in favor of the soda machine. This happens, lets say… 35 times. Eventually, Bill says “OK, I’M NOT PROCESSING PAYROLL ANYMORE UNTIL THE SODA MACHINE IS REMOVED”, so nobody will get paid unless management removes the machine. What should we do??? Answer: Fire Bill and get someone who will do the ****ing job. Bonus: Bill tells everyone that he was willing to “Negotiate”, to come to a solution where everyone got their payroll checks, but only so long as that negotiation capitulated to his demand to remove the soda machine. Bill is a ****ing jackass. -Brian Krewson via themetricruler |
Or Bill in accounting realized that purchasing the soda machine just isn't feasible for the company's budget. He is speaking up at a time when the company isn't in a position to make purchases. More importantly, once they install this machine everyone is forced to drink soda, no one knows what it will cost and the soda supplier has no idea what it will cost them to produce their product.
This Bill in accounting story drives me bananas. What is happening is several employees are sent home until this is solved. They don't have to work, but once they sort this out, they will all receive back pay for the time that they didn't have to work until the company figured out how to afford to purchase this soda machine. Don't get me started on the obamacare side of things. What if my wife decided that we should buy a new big screen TV to watch football on Sunday. On Thursday I show up for work and am told that my company is broke and to keep my job I need to take a reduction in pay. Do you think I may cancel my trip to Costco on Saturday to purchase a new 60" 3-D TV if it's not on the budget? |
Back pay must be approved by the same guys that put them out of work. The bottom line... The people elected the top leader who spearheaded the creation of the ACA. The opposition campaigned on the stump that his first day in office would result in an order to rescind the ACA. Then the people ratified the position of the top leader again and rejected the opponent.
Now the opponents cronies in the House want to destroy the credibility of the country and the dollar to undo the will of the people. Because they think they know better than us who should lead. |
Bill should be fired and the company disbanded. They are all jackasses.
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GRRRRRRRRR - This is so F'ing ridiculous. I am so sick of our government going after the hard working people. It feels like f'ing Robin Hood - Taking from the hard working and giving to those that do not produce. This will put a large number of people that currently working $8-10/hour jobs on unemployment as it makes more sense than spending money on medical insurance. Hard to believe with all of our issues as a country, this is the focus. How 'bout losing business to other countries every day, homelessness, spending zillions of dollars on a war we can't win, oil, deficit, etc..... Makes me want to close my business and let my 25+ employees go on unemployment. After all. I have have been paying taxes for over 30 years and paid my own medical for most of those - Maybe I should just live off the system and wakeboard everyday? Grrrrrr
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If you truly had 25+ employees Jason, then you would know that the law doesn't affect you until you have 50. I suspect that you don't have any employees at all because if you did, you would be paying more attention to the law. If you do have employees and are just not paying attention, then relax. You can continue to pay your employees pathetically low wages of 8-10 per hour while simultaneously not paying any of their health insurance. Your position as the only one at your company that makes enough money to wake board will still be secured. Unless of course you shoot yourself in the foot by closing your business and living off the system. I suspect there will be a wake up call when you find out that you can't even afford to put gas in a boat ... much less, pay insurance or maintenance assuming you own your boat outright. You don't need to hit poor people in the face to encourage them not to be poor. It already just sucks to be poor. Even in the USA.
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Note only that, but now his employees can actually afford HI. Why do you hate your employees Jason. Even to the point of calling them "non-producers".
You wouldn't lose your business to other countries if you asked your politicians to not allow foreign products in this nation from countries that have lower standards of pay, environmental protection, employee safety standards, legal, and health and welfare without tarriffing them to balance the inherent production costs you face from regulation. But like most people you probably enjoy buying things at the lowest price without regard to the fact that is exporting our economy and eliminating jobs for people with lessor skills and education. Or.... you could adopt the opposite approach and claim that global trade is good and the US dollar is strengthened by it. The downside is we have to keep printing and borrowing money to keep the show from crashing to a screeching halt. You cannot have a net loss of up to maybe a trillion dollars a year from your economy and expect to not have to replace it somehow. So printing and borrowing bad, but printing and borrowing is good. Just flip the coin and pick one. |
I'm on your side Jason
regardless of what this administration says, my business, I built it. I took all of the risk, so I should get to determine where profits (if any) go. you won't gain much ground here. There are those that still think Obuma is the answer. I for one am glad that part of congress is stopping the Dems from doing whatever it is that they want to do. I also find it funny that people in the comment sections after a news piece say...it's the law, fund it. If our laws were actually followed, we wouldn't have an immigration problem...... hope that this thing drags out until Obama realizes that this particular mixture of congress was voted in for a reason. Even if their points are not his points, they are apparently the views of those that voted them in..... |
You do realize that Obama was voted by in after the ACA was passed and the repeal was a cornerstone of Romney's stump speech. When you say...
"until Obama realizes that this particular mixture of congress was voted in for a reason." You do realize that the GOP lost the majority vote and seats in the House last election, even though they held on to the majority in the House. I think Obama knows where the mix of Congress is going. Especially if the GOP tanks the economy. The GOP has no hand. They either give up or the GOP won't even be able to remember what the House looks like after Nov 2014. More likely they are just tanking the market a bit to short some stocks and buy in at the bottom, which of course they will know because they decide to announce when they are ready to cave, and the market will recover. But that history because they've already caved and the market has already responded. |
I hear ya on all of that. I think the republican voters are tired of the soft stance with this administration. If they cave, they will be replaced.
You and I both know that they will eventually cave. I'm just saying that I don't agree. Stand your ground, and let the election play out. The media and Obamas brilliant campaigning abilities are going to spin any and everything towards the dems anyway. |
You and I have a different definition of "soft stance". If they don't cave they will be replaced by Democrats. If they do it might be just soon enough for America's short memory to give them another shot at the House next year. IMO the right ideology that represents this obstinacy in the House has seen it's best days.
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They all need to go.
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The two closest lakes to me are both closed. The Delta it is tomorrow.
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All of our main ramps have been closed. Luckily there is a public access and a private ramp owned by one of the local marinas that is not maintained by the US Corps of Engineers.
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Can we fire them all?
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wes, if you are referring to the repubs,thats funny!
the dems are masters of avoiding following the rules..... |
There are no rules in politics. Just Liars,Cheaters,Tramps and Thieves. In both parties for sure.None of our government leaders have any morals or concern for the well being of their citizens.
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Cliff, I'm referring to the particular group of domestic terrorists that are holding the republican party hostage, and now doing the same to the entire country. The same delusional folks that are doing their best to destroy education in America are now doing what they can to tank the economy. Unreal.
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Eric/John - You misinterpreted. My employees are not the non-producers. I do in fact have 25+ employees and been in business almost 20 years on my own dime. I have sacrificed and risked everything every day. I love my employees and I must not be terrible because most of them have been here 10-20 years. I wish I could afford insurance for all of them and their families, but we just can't. The job pays what the job pays. Some guys make $10 and other make $50/hr - depends on many things. Also I fully get the law bro about the less than 50. Here is the thing , the law requires them to have it, not for me to pay for it. When they don't have it they will be fined, when they can't pay for it, I will be forced to take it out of there checks. BS. Luckily for you Eric, I have heard guys like you my whole life, so you have no impact on how I run my life, my business, my employees or my boat. If I was such a bad guy, I would not have double digit yearly sales increases, kept long term employees or continue to hire year round. What about making affordable health care to help business's like mine to be able to give our employees health insurance. I currently spend $56K a year on Kaiser health insurance for my family, my managers, and a few long term guys. Thats with them barely using it. I would have no problem spending that and covering every employe with a basic plan. If the plan in fact ends up affordable, I will go out and get them all insurance.
I am down with firing all them suckas. I am also down with a revolution - that is what helped to make the biggest changes in our country. I think we are at that point. |
Jason, all we know is how you represent yourself here. Your employees are now offered the opportunity to insure themselves and their families with assistance from the govt to help them pay their premiums and a guarantee that they won't be denied coverage because a family member has a health history. On the flip side the fine is very small. The benefit of being able to afford insurance far outweighs the fine.
You say your are down with a revolution, but are fighting for the status quo. I.E. hiring and paying so little that the people who work for you are unable to get health coverage. I hardly picture you as a revolutionary. So what do you suggest to make HC affordable, because I am totally down with that, and have opinions on what will do it. But I'm not hearing it from anyone else. Nor do I expect to because it's too painful. In the meantime I am down with the ACA because it's the first move that has forced us to stare down the face of an expensive abyss we created. It is Medicare that's our biggest fiscal problem. A huge future unfunded liability that is paying into a hyper inflating market that neither the ACA or anything before it has addressed. |
Since this is now the ACA thread can someone give an actual number as to how affordable it is to Jason's employees. I'm not trolling, if no one knows that's cool too, just wondering.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk now Free |
Wes
We just have a different perspective. The republican house has sent yet another proposal and Obama has, again, rejected it. But, you claim that it's part of the house that is holding the nation hostage. I say it's obamas unwillingness to compromise. I for one, am glad that the tea party is there. The republicans have had a history with Obama of rolling over. I know that I'm gunna get slammed for this, but I like Cruz. Have you heard his stance on immigration? I think it's perfect.....just what this country needs Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD |
John - It's funny, we have been waiting for Kaiser and SHOP to finalize our quotes. They have been so busy talking about the tax credits, that we have not seen the formal quotes yet. I would expect the quotes by the end of the week. I have seen all sorts of $ for individuals, but nothing for the company as a whole yet.
I would love to pay all of my team $20/hour or more, but there is not enough margin to do so. Also like every job, there are starting positions through management. I am sure my company is very similar to most, in that, as you the employee puts in time and gains experience, they are rewarded with wages and/or benefits I am not sure of the solution and I am not opposed to change as I believe it to be necessary. This is a good place to talk about options and thoughts however. |
Boat Driver, check this link.... http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/
I just made up some numbers. I'll soon be 58, so I just entered 58 and a sample income of 30K (wouldn't get a subsidy on my actual income), single, no kids, non smoker.... I pay $2500 and the govt subsidizes $4500. Jason, my point isn't about how much you pay your employees. It's more about having employees that are only able to earn that much and you are against them getting help form the govt for HI. |
John, who pays that new $4500 expenditure? Also, what is your deducible? Who says that people can afford the $300 a month that they used to not be able to begin with?
Most people will have to buy a government subsidized plan which puts more pressure on the middle class. That plan is more likely from money the poor people can not afford anyway even if it is "cheap" and the deductible will put that into an emergency only category anyway. Only thing this does is put more pressure on the middle class. This is not insurance, people are buying maintenance plans. |
Also, the ACA was passed and is not law argument is lame. There are plenty of passed laws that don't get funded. That is the power of how government works. How about being angry on the other side. The president (I use that term loosely) has been hand picking winners and losers on who has to abide by said "passed law". He does not have that power to amend a law and he is only doing it to keep the heat off until after the 2014 elections. He knows if the law goes into full effect prior, the democrats will be sunk because he is hand choosing not to make the law effect (as passed) the big business employees who make up the middle class.
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Delta, the answer to your first question is in my post. You still don't have to buy the insurance. The fine is very small considering you still have the insurance of an emergency room no matter how poor you are.
The ACA being law argument is only lame if you don't like it. Deal with it. Heathcare is eventually going to be socialized. You've probably been getting socialized heathcare for years as the govt has been paying part of your premiums with a significant tax deduction. I say probably because the "socialization" is not equitable among the population. Depends on who employs you and what kind of plan they have and percentage they pay. |
Obamacare is a pos.:o:o:o:o:o:o:o
You want healthcare move to Canada |
Socialism = Somebody I feel superior to getting the same benefit that I already receive.
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Funny how the right spends so much time on the phoney "forced to buy" argument when they really object to the costs of subsidization and no preexisting condition limitation.
Anyone with no insurance can become a drain on the system at any time, so my sympathies are hardly with people who don't want insurance. They are with those who want insurance and can't get it or remotely afford it. |
funny how Obamacare is law and it can't be touched. yet at the same time so are the sequester cuts but those are now being put back on the table by dems. the sequester is even Obama's law much like that signature pile of economic destruction. the sequester cuts were going to be so damaging to the economy yet it was all fear mongering. Obamacare is supposed to be so good but it's such a turd the websites don't even work. after all of this BS with funding the govt and raising the debt ceiling, for anyone to not be scared *****less about the govt being in charge of their healthcare they must be brain dead.
'the govt is paying $4500'....sure pass on the buck to the rest of us. this country is being brought down to the level of government (inefficient, ineffective, over priced, fraudulent) instead of having a smaller govt performing only what's necessary. government is an evil necessity, not a solution. |
Since you seem to know so much... What other law funding was intended to be so severely cut that it would have basically made it existence a moot point.
BTW, if you guys are down for a revolution in HC lets hear your ideas. I know how to do it and stated it many times. But quite frankly I don't hear anyone with any ideas. I hear a lot of complaining. If you've got nothing, then bring on universal HC. Capitalist HC is pricing itself out of existence. The problem is that you need HC laws that fit the population. The more lower income people, the less appropriate our highly regulated overpriced HC is for the population. Moaning isn't the same as answers. |
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Ok, I'll start
Pre existing condition coverage is a good thing.....keep it Carrying kids on parents insurance is a good thing.....keep it Now, from my experience: There needs to be some regulation on costs. The difference in cost between a name brand and generic is ridiculous. Put a cap on it. The difference in procedure from doc to doc or cash paid vs insurance coverage is crazy....regulate it. $30 for an aspirin while in the hospital and not allowed to bring approved meds in.....ridiculous. It's almost theft. There needs to be itemized lists given....mandatory Law suit settlements......put a cap on it. Give courts more control over frivolous law suits.....again...regulate I'm also of consistent punishments in criminal cases... Set up a fund that takes care of the truly needy and elderly. Screen those that apply. No drug users, no felons, no illegals.....sometimes you have to be tough. Don't borrow from this fund.... Same with social security, and all entitlements Remove illegals from the equation. The problem with Obama care is that he has said...this is a step towards single payer. He has said that he wants total government health care. The best way to prevent that is to fight it.....fight on Cruz.....fight on! I'm sure there are tons of other ideas. These are just some that I typed down while cooling down from a workout.....eating right...stretching.....I ought to get a discount for a healthy lifestyle Obama isn't trustworthy. His/democrats end game isn't revealed. You have to dig for it. Listen to their own words in past speeches. I don't think a bad idea is good enough just because its a start ..... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD |
The "Bill in accounting" example needs some tweeking because Bill's role has been intentionally minimized.
You see, this company has a CEO and two VPs. The CEO can veto rules, but he can't make rules-much like the POTUS. The VPs are called Senate and House and they can make policy. But, only House can initiate spending requests. Together they vote for a Health Policy. They are allowed to fund it but they don't because they sell it to Board of Directors- who have the right to hire and fire- that it won't cost any money and will in fact save money. But before the Health policy is in place, House is fired by the Board and House 2nd is put in place with directions to not raise costs. It turns out the health policy will cost a bunch and House 2nd follows his orders. Keep in mind all appropriations must be initiated by House 2nd. You see the company had the foresight to put in place checks and balances. They intentionally wanted House to control expenditures because it is larger and much more representative of the Board of Directors. Now who do you fire? |
Also. I disagree with making businesses offer the insurance. Keep it an individual thing. Give businesses a tax incentive if they want to participate. This would ease a lot of the criticism....maybe
Did I mention no exemptions? Also, the dems sold this to the public and to each other as a penalty based plan. It's not. It's a tax. The court even said it had to be a tax. So, the spirit of the thing didn't survive the court. Obama, like most presidents....lied I just hunk he ought to stop with the feels good stories of Mary Sue in Vermont, and Tom in Ardmore, and be straight with what it is and what the plan is.....but he can't. Cuz then he wouldn't get the backing.... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD |
it pains me to call for regulation but one of the biggest problems with healthcare is very similar to higher education's biggest problem. for education, as more money has become available in the form of college loans, costs have skyrocketed. the same is true with healthcare. the prices hospitals can charge insurance companies is obscene and is fueling the problem. putting the govt in control of something like that is only asking for bigger problems. until that fundamental problem is addressed we're all pissing in the wind...just what the career politicians want. nothing suits their agenda more than a fiercely and evenly split populace.
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OK, let's keep business out of HI. Remove the tax deduction for HI. Convert the existing employer contribution to pay. Allow the employee to purchase anywhere he wants or not at all. Keep the exchanges and everyone can shop there. The result... a highly competitive environment because it's likely a lot of people will just say no to HI if the cost is too high.
Second, make a law that states a HC provider charge the same price for the same procedure to every customer. That will do away with $30 aspirin. It will also allow people who self insure to get the same best price any HI company gets. No more fake billing prices. I've seen a 10:1 ratio between what's billed and what my HI pays. HI is already mandatory and that is making it expensive. Your employee contribution is "use it or lose it". Your tax deduction contribution is "use it or lose it". Take away those two incentives and see how willing the public is to pay for HI price increases. You'll notice the only regulation needed is for price gouging. Giving the public the choice with their pocketbook is the revolution. |
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I'm sure there are many more of those types of cartoons for Obama
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like this one
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this one?
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John, we the public are paying your $4500.
You obviously have been making way too much money for too long or maybe have never been poor. I am telling you that even the little bit of money that you guys say is not that much is a huge burden to those who could not afford anyway. You think the cost of liability insurance on cars is cheap but we have thousands in not hundreds of thousands of people who do not even have that level of coverage on their vehicles. What makes you think the same people can afford the little bit of money for healthcare. I agree that you have to take other peoples money out of healthcare to make it cheaper. Your argument about taxes on healthcare are not correct. First is the crux of any argument. It is not the governments money to begin with. It is the peoples money and if business wants to invest in the the people who work for them then that is their right. It is an investment on whether they need a healthy stable workforce or can they get away from having people moving in and out of the labor force at their company. Do you really think that the people who did not have insurance are now really wanting to buy it? they always could have went out and bought a insurance policy that was as cheap as it is now. Money into healthcare is not going to cheapen it. That only works with widgets that get replaced with a new widget and the production is already built up for the old widget. Healthcare is the same and always will be. For those who think Medicare is a good model and think it's free do not know a thing about where their paycheck goes too. You pay 4% for life no matter what your economic standing is for Medicare. You paid for it. Not only that, it has 25% of all people on it but has 50% of all medical costs. Then throw into the fact it is on the verge of going broke all the time and you pay the 4% for life but can only get on it at age 65 or so? You willing to take a 15% to 20% cut off your pay right now to go to a truly socialized system or who you prefer a company take that money out of their profits to pay for it? |
Delta, you are truly confused about taxes and the economy. Taxes are the govt's money whether you like it or not. No matter how you look at it a personal tax deduction not related to business costs is social engineering and govt revenue given to private sectors of the market. It is a known fact that the more money you put into a market sector the more it inflates. The fed works that way with interest. The housing market hyper inflated from govt directed money. And HC has done the same. I get it Delta... you don't want to lose your welfare. You just want anyone else to get some.
Do I think that people who can't get insurance now would like to have it? Yes, I think a lot do and the govt subsidy will help them get it. |
The baby cartoon is hilarious (in a sad way) given the behavior of the house. Looks like the grownups in the senate got together and actually compromised and that things will reopen shortly. Cliff there was no plan put forth in the house. Boner tried twice and couldn't get the tea party freaks to vote for it so it went nowhere.
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House Negotiation...
We want: Repeal/Defund the ACA. We offer: Not destroying the US economy, credit, and world's faith in the dollar. |
^what he said
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The ACA is just another way to “spread the wealth.” It sure would have been much simpler to require all of us to have health insurance—the same way automobile liability insurance was mandated--and quit there. However, even though some parts of the law are good, the insurance on the exchange is the same coverage that has been available to the public all along, but now there will be more committees, more commissioners, more politicians . . . to oversee the spending. And guess who will likely be appointed to those positions? Remember HMO’s? They were designed to curb health care costs too. Now where did that get us? And the deficit continues to multiply.
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There is no question that the ACA is spreading the wealth. And there is no question that putting more money into HC is not going to contain costs. But until people are willing to make buying HI a decision left to the consumer with no coercion or "use it or lose it" govt welfare in the form of untaxed HI payments, the costs will not be contained. Do what I suggested... i.e. give the worker *all* the pay he's earned and then let him buy based on the market and everything will change on a dime. Add in regulation to prevent price gouging and you will have a balance of regulation and free market that will make HC more transparent and competitive.
Otherwise just count the days until HC breaks the back of the economy and then we'll probably end up with universal hc. |
The ACA is designed to break the back of the economy and usher in Universal Healthcare. That is the whole point of it.
John, you again are miss informed. Your money is YOURS. The people came together to form a limited government recognizing the need for national defense and so on. The money you earn is not automatically the governments. When you say that, that means that your money is mine. If that is the case I will sit at home and do nothing and ask you work work harder on my behalf. I agree that giving the worker the money may change the game but a business is trying to invest in a healthy long term workforce. It is not my welfare. You are just trying to maximize your profit on the tax payer dime just like everyone else. Less money you pay out the more money you make from your consulting. I get it, but don't act like it is something different. As far as my welfare, I am happy for it. I get benefits from a union plan (which Obama made a winner in his choice which part of the law to uphold and for who). Here is the deal I moved 2500 miles to take a job that had benefits and chose not to chase more money for the sake of money. I made the hard choices and now the "public" who did not make the correct choices or sacrificed want to have it easy. Now those people are going to be screwed because they now have to pay and the middle class has to pay for no more of a plan that they would have had to begin with if they would have sacrificed in the first place. Now it is a mandate with a trillion dollar government budget that we can not afford. |
Delta, whenever you begin a conversation with "the money I pay in taxes is mine, not the govt", it's difficult to have an intelligent discussion. First I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is and try to keep it. You will find out how quickly it's not yours. There is no question that the govt will take it's share and this isn't a conversation about how much that share should be.
You have to start with a basic premise that the govt is entitled to some amount, whatever that is. Then you have to recognize that whenever the govts takes part of "it's" money and uses it to pay for your HC, then somebody else has to make up the difference. That's half the equation. The other half is the inflation in HC that's a result of the govt giving money to the HI industry. You said you like your welfare. Well now you are paying for it. The other effect of the ACA is to make sure as many people as possible have HC. Your decision to take the benefits is of no significance. I'm advocating that you get the taxed dollars from those benefits and then choose on your own to buy HI. And I laugh at your claim that companies are interested in their employee's health. The evidence is clearly the opposite. Benefits are for exactly what you demonstrated.... to attract and retain hard to replace employees. Nobody wants to give insurance to easily replaceable employees. Just think... you won't have to make those "hard" choices in the future because with Universal HC HI won't be tied to your employer. You can go for the money and still get HC. |
Here's the irony. The gov. (the FDR administration) inadvertently caused health care to be tied to employers in the first place by capping the amount executives were paid. One way to recruit the best and brightest was to offer to pay for their health care. Unfortunately, John, if the US were to enact your proposal, then free market would take place.
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I love the way you people talk about the government wanting all of your money and taking your money or just wants more money. "It's the governments money". As if the government is this big fat rich guy with a mansion in Grand Cayman sitting in a fancy beach chair with servants getting him drinks and lobsters. I agree that there is a lot of government waste, but who do you think gets all of that money? Most of it goes right back into the pockets of the people who complain the most about paying taxes because those high income whiners are the ones with the inflated government contracts that cause the high taxes in the first place. Your heroes, the Koch brothers who can't stand paying their own taxes take billions of dollars in subsidies for the oil industry. Who do you think should pay for those subsidies? The guys receiving them? YOU? My guess is that like most of the whiners, you think the poor should pay for them with all the money that they don't have. After all, the poor are living high on the hog these days with their fancy phone and their fancy health insurance. With assets like that, they are sure to be able to pay for billions in oil subsidies and holy wars so that you can afford the G23 and the Koch brothers can afford to buy all of your congressman for another decade. If you truly want to cut gov spending and your not looking at the DOD waste then you don't really want to cut spending. You just want to get those evil poor people (the worst of you are after the brown people). I hate the poor too but I recognize that cutting them off just turns my nation into a 3rd world cesspool of crime, violence, and beggars everywhere. Your hate is blinding you to this.
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Hmm. What if I do not get any subsidies, but still don't like paying almost half my income to the government, and think the government should do less with less? I don't hate poor people and try and help as much as I can, but do not like being forced to help the element within that group that refuses to help themselves.
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Dave
Wakeworld needs a like and dont like option on each comment..... |
Eric, the only tax breaks and subsidies I know of are for companies that produce oil in the US. Without those tax breaks and subsidies, many local producers would shut down and more people will be without jobs. Some of those workers are brown.
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