New Ballast Install - Start to Finish - DIY
 

I started a new project last week. I have been planning for a little while now. Finally got it going. I saw there was another thread in the DIY section on how to add the tank buster kit, but that isn't exactly what I am doing. I will keep this updated as I go over the next few weeks.

Full disclosure - I started another thread over on mbboatowners.com as well. I am just going to copy from there to get this started:

UPS delivered a nice package today. Went will all 1" lines for everything. Started with three 1" mushroom fittings and ball valves, 3 Johnson pumps, and 6 (9) 1" thru hull "standard" fittings. A bunch of other stuff too. I went with separate vent and drain fittings. I am going to replace the current 3 ultra small fittings on the boat with the larger ones - hence ordering 9 fittings (two stock tanks vents and bilge pump thru hulls). Let the drilling begin.....

Trying to get the spacing worked out. Probably going wit the closer spacing. The top is about 3/4 inch spacing and the lower is the 1/2 inch spacing. May go closer in the end, but with the backing nut on the fitting I can't go too close. Glad I looked at this today. Received 1 wrong fitting in the box. Didn't realize it until I opened all of the packages.

First things first - check out how much bigger the new fittings are compared to the new ones.

On to the template -

First I got the spacing exactly where I wanted - after a few tries with some scrap paneling.

I took that perfect placement in the MDF and used it to make a pilot hole template - this way I can drill the pilot holes and then drill after with the hole drill bit.

Next I used that drill hole template to verify I could repeat the process over and over.

Next - intake ports

Started making one template.

Started looking for a good place to put all of this stuff. Started looking behind the engine - that isn't going to work. Looked under the rear seat and I think this will work. I was looking at the placement of each valve individually first.

Next I decided I wanted these valves as close to each other as possible. On to a single template for all three.

Then I needed to see what components I was going to go with and make sure everything was going to fit. I bought extra stuff so I could play around with the setup.

Second set

Another setup

Next I needed to see what the highest setup was gong to be. Looks like the handle will be the highest part.

Still not sure exactly what setup I will go with. Time to start seeing how things will fit inside the boat. I initially thought I would try and mount the intakes behind the engine, but it really doesn't look like that will be a good place. So, I believe I will be putting it on the starboard side between the engine and the v-drive.

As you can see, the only real obstacle will be the fuel hose. Since it is just zip tied to the other hoses, I can easily move it so it doesn't sit there and rub on the handle.

Next, I needed to verify I have the height clearance.

Looks like I have plenty of clearance.

Next while I was pulling everything apart, I noticed how much of a gap was around the brass fitting compared to how tight the vent/drain fittings were in the holes I drilled. I could stuff the brass fitting in the same hole as the drain/vent, but it was really tight. I have plenty of bezel on the brass fitting, so I will just go with the larger diameter hole for the brass. Gives me a little play too, if I need it.

I will update when I get going on this in the next couple of weekends.

Look good so far!!!

Is your drain line below the water line and thats why you put a check valve on it?

If its above the water line I don't think you need one and you can see when your bag are done, just a suggestion

It is above the waterline. I am going off the diagram from wakemakers. The way it goes, I assumed it would work better to prime - get suction since there is a T between it and the inlet on the bottom of the boat.

To drain above the waterline you'll need both check valves, just like our diagram Cole posted shows. Otherwise the pump won't prime correctly.

Cole, looks great! If it's not too late and you haven't installed your intakes yet, I would suggest staggering them so they're not all in a line from front to back. That will ensure each intake has sufficient water for the pump to run at full capacity when filling while you're driving the boat.

Thanks for documenting your install, it looks great so far!

That makes since.

Jason - It's not too late, but I don't have a bunch of room anywhere. I have to fill the gravity ballast when I am stopped, so I will probably just fill bags at the same time. The intakes are about 6 inches from each other - do you think I will be out of luck when driving and filling? I could mount all of the intakes in individual spots throughout the engine compartment but I thought it would fit better when I am looking next to the engine. I could rethink that though - easily now, not later ;)

Thanks for the heads-up.

Jason- Just a question not trying to stir up anything but will the OP benefit in fill times by using the three seperate 1" thru hull ports or would a 1 1/2' port and manifold fill just as quickly. By the way im stoked for my system to start showing thanks for all the great info and pics Cole.

It's a little hard to tell from the pictures with the template board covering the bilge surface, but I think you have enough room to keep them all in that area, and just stagger them slightly. Put the forward most intake as close to the center line as you can get it, and the rear most intake as close to the stringer as possible, and then split the different with the middle intake.

Your factory system will be full in a minute, so you'll be running your fill pumps for a while longer than that.

You can certainly fill at speed with them all in a line, but the water is going to be agitated flowing over the second and third intakes, which means those pumps will have a hard time pulling their full capacity.

Like you said, it's easy to fix now, much harder to fix later, so I would really try to space them out transversely.

Hey Cody-

Totally valid question. Two aerator pump sharing an oversized intake (as in your system) is quite a bit different than three impeller pumps. So in Cole's case, yes he will see a benefit by having individual intakes, and that's what we recommend for reversible impeller pump based systems.

Ideally we would like to have dedicated intakes for all pumps, regardless of type, but at some point you have to look at the cost benefit of doing that versus sharing an intake. That's why we share an intake for your system in MB's; the performance gain of a dedicated intake for each aerator pump is quite small and doesn't offset the added cost, and additional hassle, of fitting the two extra fittings in an already tight bilge compartment (because of your LS8 engine).

Thanks Jason - I will take another look. I will fit the board into the space first and then fit the pumps to that. I could go with the elbows and get more room if I need. I also could mount one just forward starboard of the v-drive if needed. Thanks again for the help. You guys always have the best info.

Just adding my 5 cents in here.

I recently put 3 johnsons in my boat. I was reccomended 3 intakes but went with one on the advise of a guy who ran a similar setup. One intake works flawlessly, saves cost as well as having 3 holes in the boat. My system fills in less than 3 minutes. It dumps from the same fitting and also works great.

If you do the maths on flow characteristics you will end up agreeing too :D

Also why are you not just using the intake to empty also. Looks like additional plumbing and cost for no real reason.

Don't see why you don't run a big single intake and exit with overflow out the side. Then you don't need any check valves and all this additional plumbing.

bwake - thanks for the info. Your not the first person to post this. There were multiple ways of doing the system. For me, I wanted to run it this way. I knew getting into it that the cost was going to be more, but this is the system I wanted to run. For me, I wanted to go with the three fittings for vent/drain/other from the start. Since I decided this a while ago, and have committed to it, and am drilling 9 holes above the waterline, the three holes below the waterline for the intakes don't really make too much of a difference to me. Thanks for the info - had I not known this getting into the system it would have helped. Others may not know this.

I like it your way thats how I did my system. Like seeing the water go out the side and knowing when its done. Buddy did the opposite. Both work just fine.

We've tested both configurations extensively on our test rack, and there is a difference when using flexible vane impeller pumps. Depending on the specific setup, the difference may be small, but it's there. There are three main issues we see:

1. While it's possible to use an over-sized intake fitting that provides enough volume for the number of pumps you're running, the disruption in flow is significant enough to cause aeration at the pump. It's incredibly hard to maintain laminar flow through a manifold due to all of the different surfaces and angles. If you had significant pressure (which is a common misconception when using standard plumbing flow tables or "rules of thumb") this wouldn't matter, but when the pump is generating most of the pressure it becomes a relevant issue.

2. Connecting self-priming pumps to a common manifold increases the wear and tear on the impellers, as one pump is trying to steal water from other pumps. Again, it may not be a huge problem, but it's an issue that will lead to replacing impeller sooner than necessary.

3. Finally, from a practicality standpoint, the difference in cost between a single over-sized intake with manifold and multiple smaller intakes is very minimal. Also, it's typically much easier to fit smaller separate intakes in the bilge compartment of crowded boats than it is to install a larger manifold connected to a single oversized intake. Perhaps the biggest issue is that a single larger penetration in the hull of the boat reduces hull integrity much more than multiple smaller holes. Again, probably doesn't play a role for the forces our boats are subjected to, but as an engineer, I prefer to minimize risk as much as possible.

Finally, let me just say this; you've got a system that works for you, and that's all that matters. When it comes to designing setups for our customers, we nerd out on the numbers, and try to get them the best solution for their specific application. But at the end of the day, all that matters is you have an automated solution that works for your needs, so while we have our preferred reasons for installing systems certain ways, unless someone is doing something dangerous, it's important to recognize there are multiple ways to skin a cat.

maybe this has been asked before.. do you need to drill a separate vent hole when you're draining out the side? Could you tie the vent into the drain hose to eliminate a through hull out the side. On the vent hose you'd add a check valve so it doesn't drain back into the bag while dumping the water? I've never done a ballast system, so maybe i'm missing a piece to the puzzle. For me i'd rather see less holes on the side of the boat if its possible. Great thread, its going to be invaluable to many people who haven't done this yet, such as myself!!

Nope, you can absolutely set it up like that, just requires an additional check valve (which is the same or more than the cost of the thru-hull), and adds a little more complication to the plumbing. We have customers go both routes depending on what makes the most sense for them. You can see this type of setup, as well as many others, in the resources section on our site.

Also, if you're going to be drilling holes, make sure you watch this How-To Install Thru-Hull Fittings video.

magnets. duh. so simple but I never would have thought of it. That vid is great.

I dealt with the wm guys when doing my setup (think it was Jason) and all were really helpful.

Bang on where its said there are many ways to skin a cat. At the end of the day it's water into a boat
, which is pretty simple and doesn't need over complication.

Good work for posting a thread,the more info the better for diyers

Is that particle board? is that the best choice for an environment with water? Is there some sort of composite board that could be used that won't soak up water like a sponge?

Preston the mdf he is using is just a template for locating his through hulls.

Cole - How's the install going? What were the two sizes of hole saws used for these holes? 1 5/16" and 1 3/8"?

Sorry, I forgot to keep this site updated. Got busy and sick the last couple of weeks. Nearly done now (hopefully test on Friday at the lake).

Here is the link to the MB site I have been keeping up to date. Let me see if I have some time right now to update WW.

http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.ph...-system/page-1

I think this is where I left off...

Started by pulling out the stock vents. Had to pull some panels off to get to the hose clamps and hoses.

Then I got the first hole drilled. Had my wife hold the template up to the boat and hold it there to guide me since I couldn't get a bite with the drill bit in the center of the hole saw.

Then I just put the template up there and inserted the vent fitting. Put the nut on the back to hold the template. Then it was just drill away.

Attachment 28943

Attachment 28944

Attachment 28945

Attachment 28946

Nothing in the pictures is permanently installed. If things looks a little offset, they probably were. I had a couple of issues. I don't want to call them problems, but I wanted to give a heads up to what I saw for the next guy.

The drill bit I used to drill the wood out and the fiberglass was the correct size. The funny part is I had room to spare when I drilled in the wood, but had to use a sanding bit on a dremel on the fiberglass to get the fitting to fit in the hole.

Second thing is, since I couldn't use my drill bit template like I had hoped (since I had the existing vent hole to deal with) so it wasn't perfectly aligned. It was really close, but not perfect. So I used the dremel again and ovaled out the holes to get everything perfect. There is plenty of space behind the fitting. I really only moved things about 1/64th to 1/32nd at most.

I am going to mount the switches in the dash and move the trim to the spot next to the throttle. I saw someone on here do that and really liked that. I think the function will be better in that location. I have some white switch covers I will put on that one.

I started moving the switches around. It was a slight pain to get the dash panel off. One of the nuts holding it on didn't want to let loose.

Tomorrow I will make a run to West Marine for one of those 6 panel fuse blocks by Blue Sea Systems. I was going to try and use a few of the extra circuit breakers, but I only had two extra 20 amp and I think I want 25 amp (need to look into that again - only two extra were for the shower and the heater). So tomorrow, I will just run a cable from the battery switch to the new panel and then have plenty of places to run the wires for the pumps.

From and To

Started by connecting a power wire to the perko and a ground to the buss already in the boat.

Next I installed the Blue Sea Systems 6 panel fuse box. I wanted to try and use some of the circuit breakers already in the boat, but there were only 2 that I don't use (shower and heater) that were also 20 amp. I think I need 25 amp, but need to look again to be sure.

I wired up my switches - I would have ordered the pre-wired switches from WakeMakers if I had known for sure they were 10 gauge wires. I had to find (at Ace Hardware) those female connectors that allow two other female connectors - the connector has one female and two males. It was fairly tight on the switch and I probably would have just used those splice connectors (also found on the WakeMakers pre-wired switches) if I were going to do it again. Still waiting on the x-link. It has said "processing" for a few days now.

Then I made up some lines to go from the switches to the new fuse panel.

I couldn't get my drill into the back near the transom so I could mount my pumps yesterday. I had one of those 90 degree drill bit attachments, but I had used it so much in the past that the plastic body was wearing out and melting. This made it too loose, for lack of a better term, to try and use on my transom. I went and bought a new smaller drill, but had to wait 9 hours for it to charge the first time - needed a new drill anyway (smaller anyway).



I cut all of my wires that go from the pumps to the switches, but did not install them. I will run them and the hoses at the same time.
I moved on to the pump inlet thru hull fittings. I tried every combo I could to try and get them out of line with each other. I just couldn't get them moved any other way. I kept running into either the engine or transmission mount. Crappy part is I had to go buy another one of those 90 degree drill bit attachments anyway since my trailer was in the way with the back hole location. The new drill wouldn't have had enough power, even if I let it charge all the way.
I got one of the inlet thru hull fittings mounted after putting a 45 degree edge on the gel coat. What a pain that was. I put the 5200 on it, jumped in the boat, just about had the nut started, and of course the fitting fell to the ground. It held up there for quite a while before falling - thought I had it. Had to have my wife get under the boat to hold the fitting while I got the nut started. I went for the rear most hole first since I knew it would be the hardest of the three. I basically had to climb through the hole under the rear seat to get that nut threaded. Then, everything was in the way when I tried to tighten it with the wrench. Got 5200 all over my wrench and hands. My wife could barely keep that thing from turning enough to get it tight. I really hope it doesn't leak. Wakemakers recommends 4000 so it could be removed easier. 5200 would be a real pain if I had to remove it. Didn't foresee that being an issue and 5200 is the best for all water locations if you never want to remove the fittings.

I used 1 1/4 hole saw for the vent common size 1" fittings and 1 1/2 hole saw for the bottom thru hull 1" fittings. I did have to slightly round out the holes a little on the vent fitting holes and I think I should have done the same thing on the bottom fittings - hind sight, I should have used the 1 1/4 hole saw for the bottom fittings and use a dremel with a sanding bit to round out the holes. My bottom fittings needed a bit of adhesive to fill the hole around the outside.



1 3/4 seems really big to me. I would test that out on a piece of hardwood before drilling into the boat.



On a side note, or side track note - I got so sick Friday thru yesterday. I haven't done anything in a couple of weeks. Really sucks to say the least.



I do have one problem I need to resolve with my vent fittings. The front three, when I tried to finally glue and mount them don't tighten properly. When I put the nut on the back, it hits one side and tries to tilt the edge of the fitting up. I will take pictures next week to show what I am talking about. I am going to have to made some wedge spacers to go between the fiberglass and the nut to keep everything solid. I didn't notice until trying final assembly, never showed up as a problem with just finger tightening the nut. I am going to try and find a piece of PVC that will just fit the fitting, but I want it thick enough to get the full surface of the nut, so I might just stick with wood.



Got my x-link system too, so that should finish off the install components needed.

One other thing I have found extremely helpful for installing the fittings. Use the T-handle fitting in this picture and one of the screw looking things on the top of it in the following picture to hold the fitting from the outside of the boat. The larger one worked for both the bottom and vent thru hull fittings. I think the smaller one would work great for smaller thru hull fittings. The tool comes with with the kit seen. It is for sprinkler removal. I think I got it at Lowes a while back. It just fits in the holes and catches the inside pieces of the fittings. Makes holding the fitting in and stopping it from spinning so much easier. I was lucky, the thing was sitting in my tool box from who knows when. I just ran across it when looking for something to fit in the fittings. I was leaning toward a screw driver with a rag over the top, but I don't think it would hold very well. Very glad I had this and it worked perfectly.

Yesterday - made the wedge spacers I needed to get my locking nut on the front three fittings to sit flush.

Then I got my pumps mounted. Not much room between the transom and the engine.

I really got side tracked with other garage stuff today. The only thing I did was mount the valves on the thru hull fittings, made the adapters to go from 1/2 to 1". Also got a picture of my new switch - don't mind the mess, it is unbelievably dirty in there still. Just wanted to get a quick picture.



For the adapter, I used the 1/2" thru hull fittings, screwed them all the way into the 1/2" hose for the two stock ballast tank vents and the bilge pump drain. Then I inserted that whole thing into about 5-6 inches of 1" hose and put a hose clamp on the both. Worked perfectly. Won't crush the lines or slip off. I did not put them on the 1" fittings yet, I want to give the silicone time to dry on the vents/drains as long as possible.

That is where I am now. I would have been done, but wanted to give the silicone plenty of time to dry on the vent/drain fittings. I thought I took a picture of my intakes mounted with the valves attached, but can't seem to find it. I will post that when I get a chance this week - hopefully. Really, the only thing left is to put the hoses where they go. I started cutting them, but got sidetracked.

I used 1 1/4 for the side vent fittings and 1 1/2 for the bottom fittings. If I were to do it again, I would use the 1 1/4 for all and then use the dremel with a sanding bit to open the holes a little more. I am a little worried that one of my shut off valves spun one of the thru hull fittings when I was installing it. It still feels solid, and I will not take the boat off the trailer without verifying no leaks. My biggest fear is it spun and I have to remove everything on one of the fittings. I think the smaller hole rounded out with the dremel would have kept things in place better. Time will tell.

Question for those who know - are you using any adhesive from on the brass to brass fittings? I needed my handles on the shut off valves to be about 1/2 turn from the completely tight position on the thru hull fittings so I used 5200 on the threads. It may never come off, and if it leaks I am in for some work. Just wondering if people are using Teflon tape or silicone where needed on the threads.

I don't use anything on the bronze thru-hull to bronze ball valve connection. The tolerances are very fine and if you put anything on the treads it will be harder to tighten. I have put Teflon tape on the plastic fitting into the ball valve if I can't physically get enough of it in but that is rare in this application.

If worse comes to worse you can heat that ball valve up until it melts the adhesive enough to turn it. Not going to be a very fun wresting match if it were to come down to that. I don't think you will have any issues. If you do give us a call.

Love seeing the progress.

Thanks Spencer. I hope there are no issues. I had planned on putting the 5200 on the fitting, starting the nut, then tighten the shut off valve down, then tighten the nut on the fitting making sure I lined everything up. Hind sight is 20/20 on that one. Got a little out of sequence when I had the issue with the first fitting install - dropped out of the hole before I got the nut started.

Got so close Friday. Ran out of hose. On order now. Nothing is cleaned up yet, but everything except the two hoses I need is ready to go.

Looks great Cody! If it's not too late, I would caution you against using 5200 for threaded connections. 3M 5200 is a permanent adhesive, so you really don't want to use it on a serviceable connection. If you need to use something to fix the ball valve in place for alignment issues, use 4000, since you can get it apart later if needed.

Can't wait to see it all wrapped up!

I went with the 4000 on the threads - if I remember right. Thanks for the heads up. There are only a few things I would have done differently at this point. The latest is - I would have run string all over to figure out how much hose I needed. I measured everything with a tape measure, made the original order, and then when I put everything together I found I needed to make some adjustments on how I ran the hose. Made me short on hose. Also, I must not have measured for the front ballast hose. I was completely short on that.

May I ask how you mounted the pumps to the boat? Is there something under the carpet to connect the bolts to?

Your setup looks great!!

Don't know if this is an urban myth or not, but when I did mine I chamfered the holes that I drilled in my hull to prevent spider cracks.

They are mounted to the fiberglass. I pre- drilled the holes and chamfered the holes. The inside fiberglass is pretty ruff so I think it didn't really need it. The pumps are on rubber feet.