I had a thread a little while back where I was talked out of a jet boat (THANK YOU, THANK YOU)<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>. <BR>I have now decided on a Centurion but need some help with the difference in models. <BR>I have been on CenturionCrew.Com but I find better feedback on this site (good info in the forum though). <BR>Looking on this site <a href="http://www.oodle.com/vehicle/boat/-/make_centurion/" target="_blank">http://www.oodle.com/vehicle/boat/-/make_centurion/</a> the pricing is all over the board (12K to 50K), same with ebay and onlyinboard.com. I cannot seem to find a used/new price check anywhere (like nada) and I like to have some kind of base line. <BR>I have read about the KK repo issue on CenturionCrew.Com (<a href="http://www.centurioncrew.com/boat-repo-deals-0hrs-b-t1672.html&amp;hl=repo" target="_blank">http://www.centurioncrew.com/boat-repo-deals-0hrs-b-t1672.html&amp;hl=repo</a>), but other than that can anyone help with the different models and changes since 2002? <BR>Any year/model to stay away from? <BR> <BR>I am looking to stay in the 21ft range and we are mostly wakesurfers with a little wakeboarding. <BR>I do not need all of the bells and whistles but the following will be necessary (with the boat or added after); <BR>Perfect Pass system (or something similar) <BR>Built-in ballast system (3 tanks, RL-RR&amp;C) <BR>Depth gauge <BR>Skier heaters <BR>Cup holders <BR>Wake plate (hydro) <BR>Wakesurfing friendly exhaust system <BR>Rear swim platform <BR>Built-in anchor (front preferred) <BR>V-Drive (no direct drive) <BR>Trailer

I don't think any boats except some of the Mastercraft picklefork boats have a built in anchor. You actually listed pretty much a loaded boat other than stereo. You have three options around 21' for centurions are the Falcon V(20'9"), eliteV(21'6") and the cyclone which looks like they quit making. It is 20'6". I would go for the 22' Avalanche. There are a lot more out there so you should be able to find a nice used one or a repo one for cheap.

I may need to go to a 23ft boat, not a big deal but just bigger than I was planning. <BR>I like this 08 but at 16.5K I wonder what is wrong with it!! <BR><a href="http://www.oodle.com/view/2008-centurion-enzo-sv230/1644979685/usa/" target="_blank">http://www.oodle.com/view/2008-centurion-enzo-sv230/1644979685/usa/</a>

That is a scam. That is a 40k+ boat.

And here is a 02 for about the same price as the 08, <BR><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;_rdc=1&amp;item=1104578 03323&amp;ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F _from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D110457803323% 26_fvi%3D1&amp;viewitem=" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;_rdc=1&amp;item=1104578 03323&amp;ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F _from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm38%26_nkw%3D110457803323% 26_fvi%3D1&amp;viewitem=</a> <BR>Different models, but where can I find something that shows me the differences?

Here are some options on the Avalanche. <BR> <BR>Perfect Pass system (or something similar-easy addable <BR>Built-in ballast system (3 tanks, RL-RR&amp;C)-some may just have front but you can plumb in rear fairly easy <BR>Depth gauge-cheap and easily added <BR>Skier heaters-If you are talking about a regular heater than probably 500-700 to add one <BR>Cup holders-standard <BR>Wake plate (hydro)-some have some don't if you really need it it can be added <BR>Wakesurfing friendly exhaust system-In my opinion all exhaust systems are fine but some will have Sideswipe. If it doesn't you can add Fresh Air Exhaust. <BR>Rear swim platform-standard on all wakeboats <BR>Built-in anchor (front preferred)-like I said before you are not going to find this <BR>V-Drive (no direct drive) <BR>Trailer-pretty much standard on all wakeboats and I don't know if I have ever seen a centurion on anything but a tandem trailer. <BR> <BR> <BR><a href="http://portland.en.craigslist.org/clc/boa/1462548662.html" target="_blank">http://portland.en.craigslist.org/clc/boa/1462548662.html</a> <BR> <BR><a href="http://portland.en.craigslist.org/wsc/boa/1461310593.html" target="_blank">http://portland.en.craigslist.org/wsc/boa/1461310593.html</a> <BR> <BR><a href="http://charlotte.craigslist.org/boa/1454787452.html" target="_blank">http://charlotte.craigslist.org/boa/1454787452.html</a> <BR> <BR><a href="http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/boa/1442805587.html" target="_blank">http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/boa/1442805587.html</a>

On NADA you have to look at Ski Centurion <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?l=1&amp;w=24&amp;p=38&amp;f=5692&amp; gc=MR&amp;gtc=MR&amp;ml=S&amp;pg=3" target="_blank">http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?l=1&amp;w=24&amp;p=38&amp;f=5692&amp; gc=MR&amp;gtc=MR&amp;ml=S&amp;pg=3</a> <BR> <BR>I would look at an Avalanche. You basically described it. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by lakesurfer on November 15, 2009)

That centurion on ebay is way older and the original EliteV hull. It is not the most popular but a 2002 vdrive wakeboat for 17k is a very solid price assuming it is in good shape. It also doesn't do a very good job of listing options. <BR> <BR>What is your price range?

Thanks a lot Brett. <BR>I like the last link you posted, is there any real difference between the 05. 07 and 09's? Other than typical new year changes?

Price range is under 30K. We will use the boat every weekend, and a few week days, but the nearest water is 1.5hrs away. The good water is 2hrs plus away. <BR>So if I can get a good boat with the options I am looking for, or a boat that I can add them to in the up coming years, that is under 20K, I am all for it.

The boat on ebay is within driving range so I could check it out and test drive before purchase. <BR>Worth a look?

All avalanches have the same hull. There is a C4 and a regular Avalanche. The regular one has a walkthrough which some like some don't. It takes away from seating but you don't have to crawl over the vinyl. That 05 looks like it has the old ballast system meaning instead of the inlets on the bottom so you can only fill while sitting still or reversing. Other than that it the differences are mostly cosmetic.

The 21.6 Elite V, Hurricane, Air Warrior, and Lightning ranging from 199? to 2005 are all the same hull. A new hull came out around 2005/6. I had a 2004 Lightning. I liked the wakeboard wake a lot, but changed my interests to wakesurfing and so upgraded to a 23 foot Enzo. The Enzo wakeboard wake looks really nice to my eye but again, I got hooked on surfing and have never wakeboarded behind my Enzo. I did take a knee board pull. The size of the wake while sitting on the knee board scared the heck out of me, huge. My Enzo will be on sale this winter but I think it will probably sell over your budget. <BR> <BR>The Avalanche and Enzo hulls are similar. The Enzo 240 is a stretch Enzo 230. The Typhoon is essentially the same as an Avalanche, just a foot longer. <BR> <BR>I’ve organized wakesurf competitions since 2006. Both the Avy and Enzo make killer surf wake. I’ve used both at these events. <BR> <BR>I think you want an Avalanche, a 22 ft boat. The only change in the Avalanche since it came out is in 2009 they changed the muffin top. The Avy is roomy inside. I’ve never wakeboarded on an Avy or Enzo wake, I’ve only surfed behind these boats. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Bigshow on November 15, 2009)

PM Sent

Why worry about a KK repo, just check the condition of it, that it runs, and that it has warranty. Not a big deal.

What good is a warranty if there is no one to fix it? <BR> <BR>Kevin, what do you mean the "muffin top"? <BR> <BR>(Message edited by polarbill on November 16, 2009)

He means the top cap. Basically the distance from where the bottom of the hull meets the top of the hull. There is a seam where they meet.

PM sent.

I would be fine with a KK repo as any work that needed to be done I could do and I have a brother in-law that is a mechanic so that is covered. <BR>I just did not want to start a KK repo post as there was already one started.

Bryan, check out the 06 or 07 that Nate is probably emailing you about. Nate and the guys at CBK know the Centurion link better than anybody.

I bought my boat from Nate. I drove I don't know maybe 6 hours one way to pick it up. I'd do it again. Although we now have a top notch local Centurion dealer.

Bryan, if you are getting the boat to surf dont get built in rear ballast. you will be much better off with fat sacs. the hard tanks take up a lot of run and dont give you much weight.

Sorry mitch, but get a boat with built in rear tanks. Then just remove them and basically screw the fittings- hoses into sacs are you are ready to surf! Installing sacs only took me an hour or so in my 2003 centurion avalanche.

Duffy, very true.

Bryan, see if you can get in touch with George Aslinger he is a regular on this board. His son, Phillip, is sponsored by Centurion and I know he has quite a bit of knowledge about the boats.

What sized engine do I need for good wakesurfing? I thought I read somewhere that a certain size of engine is required for wakesurfing.

The stock centurion 315hp will work, but you will need a new prop. Bigger the better with surfing and lots of weight. If you want to surf get a Avalanche, Enzo or a typhoon.

You will find that not so much engine as prop needs to be addressed for surfing. Most of the better appointed centurions have the 330 black scorpion which is plenty to surf a 22. You will want a shorter 4 blade prop. <BR>Centurion has two hulls, the "cascading" - falcon V and 22 enzo and the deeper V which was the C4 hull design of the avy, and 23 &amp; 24 enzos. <BR>The deeper V is one of the better chop rides and makes a nicer wake with less weight at the price of being touchy with weight distribution. This board is rife with hate on trying to get the port side wash out of an avalanche, lightning, or cyclone. <BR>The cascading hulls are more forgiving to set up but need more weight and ride as rough as a nautique or older malibu in the chop.

It depends on what year he gets. I think in 2005 they changed trannys. I run a 3 blade on my 2003 avy.

Yup, I have a 2005 cyclone with a 3 blade. I run about 1800 for surfing with no problems.

I have a 911, which is the most extreme prop acme makes, but I am surfing with 315 hp motor. I just sent it in and it's going down a pitch and a cup and should give me more power. <BR> <BR>Avy sac- 1500# <BR>Center Ballast- 250# <BR>Fat brick on the swim deck-150# <BR>Fat sac on seat- 400# <BR> <BR>Total 2300 pounds, if we have a large crew we never run a sac on the seat.

I think the 330hp motor would be much much better. If you get a choice I would pick the that motor. <BR> <BR>I am also getting 2 custom fat bricks made that will be on the swim deck. Each will weight 225. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by duffymahoney on November 17, 2009)

just a quick question why did you decide to go with a centurion. And how much are you looking to spend

Go with an Epic 23v <BR> <BR>4000lbs stock ballast <BR>8.1 merc <BR>nice stock sound system (kicker) <BR>Cooler (3 case cooler) <BR>led's <BR>heater <BR>Bimini <BR>dual rudder <BR>Merc smart tow <BR>And more all stock

Epic 23v msrp = $72.5K Yikes!!! In that range I would rather have an X45. Not a fan of the front end of that 23V

That's MSRP. <BR>You can pick up an 09 Epic 23v for 50k to 55k and they come loaded, you don't need to add anything. <BR>One of the best Wakes in the biz IMO. <BR> <BR>I would just check one out and demo one before you make a decision, that's all I am saying. <BR> <BR>Boat is very impressive.

isn't there a blue one for sale for 39,000 in the classifieds?

Nick, Jeff already mentioned it but if you compare 72.5k MSRP for the Epic to the MSRP of an X45. A 2009 X45 is probably 110-120k MSRP with a big block. <BR> <BR>When comparing it is important to compare apples to apples.

H2O, he sold it.

His price range is under 30k. Get this boat. It's a typhoon, so 23 feet long but its 22k! <BR><a href="http://www.olingermarine.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=07217218X11K20K2009J11I 48I31JAMQ4074R0&amp;veh=6983&amp;pov=1449158" target="_blank">http://www.olingermarine.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=07217218X11K20K2009J11I 48I31JAMQ4074R0&amp;veh=6983&amp;pov=1449158</a>

That boat is a Repo boat. Actually all that dealerships used boats are repo boats I think. You may ask Diggs if he remembers that boat at all. From what I have heard this guys buys everything without seeing them. Some are trashed, some aren't. I have no idea how good he really repairs them but I would guess he is like a cheap house flipper and just fixes the things that are noticeable. I could be completely wrong though.

Yeah the dealership is actually 40 miles from where I live. So if anyone ever needs me to look at something let me know. He does buy repo boats, but they all look great. Buying a used boat is tough but as long as the engine, tranny, electrical etc... check out I wouldn't worry to much. But you never know what you are getting. He buys tons of boats and flips them quick. I bet he is making a killing. Since he opened I have seen so so many boats get sold.

hey give nate at cbk a chance, we love our avalanche real fair deal

Olinger Marine use to be Mission Marine in California. They moved ID about 4 or 5 mos ago.

Ok guys, I am back. <BR>Been a long few days at work. <BR> <BR>Wes - After some personal research it seems that Centurion was a good fit, available in my price range, options that I want were available or could be added easily and I drove a few and liked the feel of the boat. I could find few people saying anything bad about the boats other than issues with dealers themselves. <BR> <BR>Jeff - I like the Epic better but they all seem out of my price range. I did find one that had been sitting outside for a year and was beaten up a little in my range but it sold before I could get to it. <BR> <BR>Duffy - I like your suggestion. Will probably call them next week. <BR> <BR>I am ok with a repo boat. But like you said Duffy, all the mechanics need to work or be repairable for a reasonable price. Saying that, I will need to see the boat and inspect it before I buy, or get someone to do it for me.

The only thing about the typhoon is that it has a walkthrough transom. Some people love it and some people hate it. Olinger Marine is great at shipping too. <BR> <BR>I would pay to have the engine fully checked out. Make sure the prop shaft seal, shaft etc... are good. Also have the tranny checked and electrical. It cost me 150-200 bucks on my last boat. You can always fix something small, especially if you get a killer deal! <BR> <BR>(Message edited by duffymahoney on November 20, 2009)

Bryan, I just sent you a PM.

I am a hate it person on the walkthrough, but at the right price it is not a deal breaker.

Just a thought, is it possible to get a bare bones Centurion and then add all of the good stuff later? <BR>I could then get a newer boat with a better engine and tranny and adding all of the fun stuff would give me something to do during the winter<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0>

Sure you can order a 2010 with nothing but the Standard options. that will get you closer to the repo boat prices but until all the manufactures are ride of the 2007-2009 excess inventory the new and used boat markets will continue to suffer!!

Anyone out there know of a standard 08 or 09 for sale? <BR>Or where I might look for one?

Bryan - I had the chance to buy one of two Epics for $43k new AND they were going to throw in a $2,500 hull wrap of my choice. Epics are very reasonably priced here in central and south Texas

I would love a Epic but with the distance between good water and me I cannot justify spending that much.

Anyone know anything about these guys? <BR><a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-07-08-09-Centurion-V-Drives-STARTING-AT-31-990_W0QQitemZ380180304062QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPower_ Motorboats?hash=item58848310be" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-07-08-09-Centurion-V-Drives-STARTING-AT-31-990_W0QQitemZ380180304062QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPower_ Motorboats?hash=item58848310be</a>

Those are some of the KalKustom boats.

Unfortunately the market for Centurion will remain screwed up until those KK boats are gone. <BR>However Centurion is not alone with this problem the Wakeboat market wont be back to normal until the excess inventory is gone!<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/sad.gif" border=0>

Not good for me. I'm selling my Enzo this year.

Same here I would like to get a 2010 Centurion but The used market is so screwed up from all the repo and excess inventory. Fortunately for me it is not the end of the world if I cant sell my 07

I need some help from anyone in the LA area that would be willing to go to a San Marino, CA location to preview a boat for me. I will fly out to do a personal look before I buy, but just want someone to visit the storage location and verify that the boat really exists. <BR>Seller is a private party, who is away on business, and the boat is at a shipping company so no new pictures are available from the seller<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/angry.gif" border=0>?? <BR> <BR>(Message edited by bojik on November 30, 2009) <BR> <BR>(Message edited by bojik on November 30, 2009)

Ok, I talked to a friend who owns a Mastercraft and he is telling me that Centurion is a ok boat and I should buy a Mastertcraft. We have a friend who is in the banking business who just got a 07 Mastercraft X15 returned to him (repoed). First call he wants about 46K. Any thoughts? <BR>New boat with 1hr and full warranty and it's yellow and white, do not know anything else about it yet. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by bojik on November 30, 2009)

They are very different. If you surf mastercraft is just ok, if you wakeboard mastercraft is awesome. They are great fit and finish boats and in my opinion great looking. My centurion Avalanche will beat any mastercraft surfing and rough water but that's about it. The fit and finish on my boat isn't as good, but older centurions are cheaper and they are great boats!

A WW clasified special. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/748396.html?1258897667" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/748396.html?1258897667</a> <BR> <BR>I agree with with what Duffy said, the Avy will throw a better surf wave than any MC or any other manufacturer for that matter I have been behind, but MC does have some advantages in the consistency in wake dept and they are a well recognized brand. <BR> <BR>There are also some 06 XStars in the $40K range which would be a better bet than an X15 at the same price.