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-   -   Detroit Woman Dead After Hugging Off-Duty Cop, Discharging Gun (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=794381)

brettw 07-09-2012 1:51 PM

Detroit Woman Dead After Hugging Off-Duty Cop, Discharging Gun


I just can't understand how or why someone would carry a gun in their own home during a party, presumably with a round in the chamber and with no safety switch?

getssum 07-09-2012 2:13 PM

Because it's DETROIT, maybe? :-)

Seriously though, most off duty police carry their duty weapons or their backup weapons at all times. From what I understand they have a duty of care even when they're off, they're never off.

Another guess is that the pistol would be from Smith and Wesson's M&P line, based on it's caliber and lack of safety. This would be a striker fired pistol, and would typically have a round in the chamber.

There was probably more serious action than a HUG if you ask me to get that pistol rotated up so that the barrel was pointed in the opposite direction of usual.

Either way it's truly a tragedy and I'm sure the officer feels horribly about what happened.

poser007 07-09-2012 6:51 PM

I live in Oregon and have many friends who work for law enforcement and I know several who don't carry their guns when they are off. It doesn't make sense to me at all. You are at a party everyone is having a good time and some guy is carrying a gun. Why would anyone carry a gun to a party? just so everyone knows I am all for bearing arms, but at a party? i don't care if the guy is a cop, 99.9% of the people in large cities don't carry guns when they are our and about. I have never shot a real gun before ok scratch that I shot a hand guy in the woods one time and didn't like the way it felt. Having all the power in your hand wasn't something i liked.

Just seems really stupid to me to bring a gun to a place where friends and family were having a get together or whatever they were doing. As much as I feel bad for the officer as he must be really shook up about this, it easily could have been avoided. Leave the Damn gun in the car or at home!!!!

brettw 07-09-2012 7:34 PM

He didn't even bring the gun to a party at someone else's house. It was his party at his own house!

jason_ssr 07-09-2012 7:38 PM

Lots of red flags here.

The most obvious one is that he was conceiling his duty weapon. Those are purposely designed with limited to no safety measures to make standard holster use in the line of duty as efficient as possible.

Second, I believe having an incident with your duty weapon while off duty is extreme taboo in the LEO world. Most I know carry a personal weapon while off duty and never touch the duty weapon outside of work.

What kind of conceil holster was he using that it could be twisted and discharged? Was it literally just tucked in his belt with no holster?

So sad for this girl. Of all the people who should know better....

jason_ssr 07-09-2012 7:54 PM


I live in Oregon...99.9% of the people in large cities don't carry guns.
This may be true in Oregon, but not TX. Here its no big deal. Here its just a tool, just like the tire jack in your car. Its hidden away properly, and you never think about it. You hope you never have to use it. That jack serves absolutely no purpose in that car 99.999% of the time. But, wouldnt you agree its foolish to drive around without one?

Remember, only you can stop bad things from happening to you. The police can only help bring bad guys to justice after the fact.

Shooter 07-09-2012 8:39 PM

I like how all the Monday morning quarterbacks come out.

Why would he be carrying at a party? Because most good cops make it a habit to carry most of the time. He may not need that weapon at the party, but how do you know what he was doing before or after. I had a friend who was forced to shoot a knife wielding tweeker after a day out on the lake. The same people here would have criticized him for carrying that day if nothing bad had happened, but there is a few people that are grateful he did.

A police officer is never "off duty" and has an obligation to take some type of action when the ***** hits the fan. Unfortunately you never know when that will happen.

No safety? Most newer style guns don't have a lever safety, but that doesn't mean they don't have multiple internal safety features. A gun will not fire if the trigger is not pulled.

One in the chamber? Of course he has one in the chamber...it was Detroit, not Mayberry.

Im positive there is much more information to this story that is not being released. Without further information, it sounds like a tragic accident.

poser007 07-09-2012 10:42 PM

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who works for the police department here in my town. He informed me that the officers are not at all required to carry their guns when off duty and they work their shifts and go home like the rest of us. many work over time doing paper work if it was a busy night. I don't know if that is the case in other states but it looks like it is here.

I'm not arguing that he doesn't have the right to conceal his gun, i just don't think it is a good idea in that setting. Everyone always talks about that one instant where if someone had a gun something could have been avoided. Give me a break! I am 45 and have had 2 fights in my entire life. One in the 8th grade and another when I was around 20.

I have traveled extensively and been in some pretty seedy areas and not once did I ever wish I have a gun. The last fight i got in was with a crazy guy strung out on drugs. he ran right for me and i had no choice but to defend myself. Even in that situation i would have rather took my chances fighting the guy off with my hands which i did, luckily he knocked himself out pretty much when he fell and we got out of there. All I am saying is I have never been comfortable around guns, probably because I am not used to them and have never really handled them, so for me, seeing someone with a gun makes me uneasy.

jason_ssr 07-10-2012 6:17 AM

That is not unreasonable. People who have never flown are scared of airplanes. I was scared to drive in the Virgin Islands because they drive on the wrong side of the road but still have the steering wheel on the left (unlike euro where the two offset). I took some family members shooting at the range over the weekend for their first time shooting. They were uneasy as well. Its expected, in fact, I'd be concerned if they werent.

I cant remember the last time I had an altercation of any kind. That is a good thing. That means you and I are smart enough to avoid or diffuse bad situations. However, If you watch the news you will see that every single day bad people put good people in bad situations that they did not choose or ask for. If you became proficient with it and confortable with it and started carrying tomorrow, it would probably never see the light of day as long as you live. However, if ever came a day that you and your loved ones were in that 0.1% you would be counting your blessings that you decided to do so. You would also feel unrelenting guilt if you didnt and something happened that you were unable to prevent.

jonblarc7 07-10-2012 6:46 AM

Flight you don't know much about guns(I'm not puttin you down jus trying to inform you) When It comes to a fight as you mentioned, you have to use equal force. So when the drugy charged you empty handed your not allowed to shot him. Even if you have a gun you still have to fight with you hands. Now if he picks up a brick I say blow him away. (Zimmerman trail)

jperkinsttu 07-10-2012 8:07 AM

You might have been in some seedy areas but you haven't been to Detroit, Flint or Saginaw Michigan in the past year. There are deaths in every part of these cities from drive by fun fire at least once if not twice a day. I spent a week in Michigan and there were 14 shootings. No they are not required to carry a weapon off duty but I guarantee I wouldn't step foot anywhere without one if I lived in those areas. Or how about south TX,NM, and AZ. Go ahead and live next to the border and tell me how long you live without carrying a concealed weapon on you at all times. If you can't handle a weapon then great you shouldn't have one but don't drive someone else's car from the other side of the country bc you have no idea what they have to go through on a daily basis.

Shooter 07-10-2012 6:23 PM

Flight…You also dont arrest crackheads, gangbangers and dirtbags everyday. You get a different perspective when you know people are are out there that would find pleasure in hurting you or your family.

alanp 07-10-2012 6:43 PM

jason, you are incorrect on a point. most leo will be covered in a shoot if they ARE carrying their duty weapon or an approved firearm, provided its a good shoot. the logic is this is the weapon they have been trained with during their academy.

poser007 07-10-2012 6:48 PM

Guys guys guys let me just spout out this last comment and then you can rail on me. I don't disagree with anything you are saying, I'd be the first one to tell you to strap on that gun. The fact of the matter is he was off duty at his home evidently getting ready for a party where friends and family are coming over. Having the gun in that situation where I am sure he lives in a decent area of the city was probably not the best idea in the world. It could have been put in the bed room drawer or a nice safe place for a couple of hours.

In the event a gun yielding crack head shows up uninvited at his party, go get the gun which I am sure would have been 25 feet away and do what you will with it. I mean come on, the guy is at home is he gonna wear the thing when he is sleeping to? I think there are appropriette places to have a gun and maybe not so appropriate. Case in point, if I invited you to my house for a BBQ and you showed up with a 45 strapped to your waist i would probably say hey brah, could you do me a favor and leave that in your car. Now if we were walking down town Detroit and you had that piece under your shirt, i would say hey bro, that thing is loaded right?

just saying there seems to be a time and place for that sort of thing. just my opinion. Flame on fellow wakeworlders

jperkinsttu 07-12-2012 8:35 AM

I dont know the area he lived in nor will I speculate that he knew everyone that was showing up to the BBQ. Officers are taught that every second counts. In the instance of a party with family and friends, I would say he would use it to protect them more than himself. We don't know the whole story but I'm guessing all his guests knew he was an officer but not all knew he carried a weapon at all times. If something were to happen and he had left the firearm inside and he could've stopped it of he had it on him he'd be getting ridiculed for not being prepared at all times. It's a messed up world and isht happens. Sad stories happen all the time and sadly there's only lessons to be learned. The media pounces on these stories regardless if it helps get the message out or not, all they want is ratings. It's a double edged sword that doesn't always have a happy ending b

jason_ssr 07-12-2012 9:24 AM

This guy took his to a harmless gathering of friends:


I think the risk of trouble is alway very minute no matter where you go. If you decide your life and your friend's/family's life is worth mitigating that risk some of the time, why not all of the time?

waajusshappened 07-13-2012 4:19 PM

But it's sooOoooOOOooooo cooooooooooooold in the D!

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