Okay ive ben trying a whirly and ive ben throwing it right but i got the tantrum and half of the spin i come up about 90 degres short of the 3 every time does anyone have tips pls thanx<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>

ouch so does that mean you are face planting?

Yea on some and some it just skips out but yea ive did some painful faceplants

I have been trying to throw these also with about the same result I have been trying to find a good video were it was thrown really slow but have had no luck. I am going to have some one video tape me this week end and see if I can see what I am doing wrong.

start tantrum first then throw your arm across your face to strt your rotation and after your arm has crossed your head then turn your head and it should get you all the way around

I cant land these on the water yet but when I started doing them on the trampoline I would have that same problem if I brought my lead hand (rope hand) down towards my side during my rotation. I started video taping myself and immediately noticed my problem. After that I would concentrate on keeping my rope hand above my head during my rotation and can land them every time on the trampoline now. I think you should get yourself on video. If you know what theyre supposed to look like you should be able to see what you are doing wrong.