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Drbabs 08-05-2019 12:11 PM

First Boat! wtb 30k Budget
 
1 Attachment(s)
Long time reader. First time posting here, first time boat purchase. A little nervous. Last posts asking about boats under 40k were from spring and summer 2018 so..


I would love some feedback on boats with the following priorities

#1. Budget $25-30k
2. 21-22' preferred length to fit in the garage which has a 23-10" length
3. reliable boat and motor (engine, components, longevity)
4. . Surf wave quality as is ( its going to take awhile to learn to boat before i can learn to adjust wake, ballasts, fins, gates, wedges etc)
5. 12-14 seater
6. Heater (wife, lol) and kids are 11,9,6,2. We boat cold utah mountain lakes and i want a longer season. Not sure if that can be added after market.
19. cool graphics ;)

constantly debating with friends about getting an old top of the line boat vs a newer base model (moomba, heyday,sanger, etc). Read those threads too. THANKS ALL!

Attachment 45355

shawndoggy 08-05-2019 1:11 PM

At that price you are looking at a "vintage" boat. No boats of 10-15 years ago were surf monsters without some upgrades to ballast and in more modern terms adding a suckgate or some other surf device. One you do those things at Utah altitude, a prop upgrade is definitely going to be on the horizon too.

A mid-00s malibu vlx or vride is going to be just OK surfing with stock ballast, and would be totally unacceptable by what new boats can throw. If you upgrade ballast and add a suck gate and prop it correctly, you should be able to make a decent wave tho.

CTM17081 08-05-2019 2:47 PM

It is more than your budget, but I lover our new Heyday WT-2DC. Seats 12 and surfs great straight out of the box. Not sure about a heater option though.

rexlex01 08-05-2019 3:07 PM

Tige 21V

rexlex01 08-05-2019 3:12 PM

How about a Tige 21V or 22VE?: https://claz.org/classifieds/vehicles/boats?q=tige+21v

https://www.shoppok.com/denver/a,29,...ce=clazoutfeed

Shakarocks 08-05-2019 3:41 PM

The Tige is a great suggestion. Others to look at are Centurion Avalanche with C4 hulls and Malibu VLX. Throw an InfinityWave.net system on any of those and they will be surf machines.

Drbabs 08-06-2019 7:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexlex01 (Post 1990694)
Tige 21V

WOW, thanks for the replies guys.
why the tige 21v/22ve? is this the base model ? i see a 22ve listed for $36 with 380 hours.

Koolaid 08-06-2019 7:11 AM

Because you can pick up the 21v's cheap and they a great wake surfing boats when you set them up properly. Easy to maintain and pretty much bulletproof construction.

Drbabs 08-06-2019 7:15 AM

Koolaid and others, sounds like the wave will be better, but overall how is the 21v gonna compare with the 04vlx im looking at?

rexlex01 08-06-2019 8:59 AM

The VLX would have the better Wakeboard wake but the Tige or Centurion would have the better surf wake and be a little better in chop.
Definitely get the VLX if you want to Wakeboard it’s a Great boat for learning at low speeds but will have a lower ceiling in the surf department.
Your family will have fun in either brand.

joeshmoe 08-06-2019 9:02 AM

Surf Boat
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shawndoggy (Post 1990689)
A mid-00s malibu vlx or vride is going to be just OK surfing with stock ballast, and would be totally unacceptable by what new boats can throw. If you upgrade ballast and add a suck gate and prop it correctly, you should be able to make a decent wave tho.

2005-2007 V-ride Is the 2002-2004 VLX, the VLX changed to a bigger hull in 2005, so Do Not go earlier than2005 VLX and No on the V-ride.

Drbabs 08-06-2019 9:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexlex01 (Post 1990722)
The VLX would have the better Wakeboard wake but the Tige would have the better surf wake and be a little better in chop.
Definitely get the VLX if you want to Wakeboard it’s a Great boat for learning at low speeds.

Thanks Rex,
i think we prefer to learn to surf. no one in my fam wakeboards but my kids are very young. In your opinion, what about the other factors? quality, engine, features like heater?

Koolaid 08-06-2019 9:08 AM

http://www.tigeowners.com/forum/show...-22ve-for-sale
Just noticed this one on another forum and its right about your price range.

rexlex01 08-06-2019 9:10 AM

Since you’re looking at 12 year old boats, quality is relative to maintenance and care by previous owners. Get a survey before you buy.. Most heaters are 3rd party so you can have a heater added to any boat.

Drbabs 08-06-2019 9:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeshmoe (Post 1990723)
2005-2007 V-ride Is the 2002-2004 VLX, the VLX changed to a bigger hull in 2005, so Do Not go earlier than2005 VLX and No on the V-ride.

dang Joe, the 2004 vlx is the one im test driving thurs. should i cancel? whats wrong with that one?
also considering this after all the tige love on this thread, but the price seems high
https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/...ncEd0-pLg.link
https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/...ncEd0-pLg.link

tampawake 08-06-2019 10:21 AM

Thats a Ve so one of their more modern boats. Tige was pushing surfing before almost everyone else other than centurion. Deep free boards before everyone else too. It might be a little high but depends on what all options are on it. Low hours too to be honest. If you think that 02 xstars and super airs are going for as high as 32 with low hours thats not a bad price. That will surf way better than either of those. I know I have an OG xstar. I would for sure check out that Tige. Ive wakeboarded behind the Tige and it had a legit wake for its time.

Drbabs 08-06-2019 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampawake (Post 1990728)
Thats a Ve so one of their more modern boats. Tige was pushing surfing before almost everyone else other than centurion. Deep free boards before everyone else too. It might be a little high but depends on what all options are on it. Low hours too to be honest. If you think that 02 xstars and super airs are going for as high as 32 with low hours thats not a bad price. That will surf way better than either of those. I know I have an OG xstar. I would for sure check out that Tige. Ive wakeboarded behind the Tige and it had a legit wake for its time.

sorry Tampa, the 22ve will surf better than the 02 xstar and super air?

tampawake 08-07-2019 2:19 AM

Absolutely the 22Ve will surf WAY better than both the OG X Star and 210 and also way more spacious. That was my point that the cost of the Tige is not that bad of a asking price. When you see the OG Xstar and 210s going for close to those prices. Also that Tige looks super clean.

Drbabs 08-07-2019 3:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tampawake (Post 1990749)
Absolutely the 22Ve will surf WAY better than both the OG X Star and 210 and also way more spacious. That was my point that the cost of the Tige is not that bad of a asking price. When you see the OG Xstar and 210s going for close to those prices. Also that Tige looks super clean.

THANK YOU! ill search for a closer 22ve to compare! as a beginner, its hard to "see" a boat on the internet.
so im test driving the 04 wakesetter vlx tomorrow, how would you compare the 2 in quality, wave and fit/ finish?

Zackdogg 08-07-2019 4:13 AM

First Boat! wtb 30k Budget
 
We rode a couple of wakesetters, for years.. they were pretty sweet wakeboard boats, but don’t think you’ll get much, if any surf wave out of them. If you’re really looking to surf, I wouldn’t even bother testing it.

I’d say fit and finish are pretty comparable to each other..

Shakarocks 08-07-2019 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zackdogg (Post 1990753)
We rode a couple of wakesetters, for years.. they were pretty sweet wakeboard boats, but don’t think you’ll get much, if any surf wave out of them. If you’re really looking to surf, I wouldn’t even bother testing it.

I’d say fit and finish are pretty comparable to each other..

All it takes is a bit of money to upgrade and old Wakesetters get a new lease on life as surf boats. This was filmed on an older VLX:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nVJmuGzteI

We have systems on all kinds of older 'Bu's and it works great. Ballast must also be addressed.

joeshmoe 08-07-2019 11:44 AM

Boats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbabs (Post 1990727)
dang Joe, the 2004 vlx is the one im test driving thurs. should i cancel? whats wrong with that one?

Do Not buy the 2004, test ride for wakesurfing? sure, make sure you open the storage lockers in the back and you can see the stock ballast tanks in them, the 2005 is so much bigger, when you open the lockers in the back, you will not see any ballast tanks, they are all under the floor! I put a piggy back bag in the port locker of the 2005 and it works great. You could have a great time testing out all the wakes on all the boats, may the best wake win, good luck!

Zackdogg 08-07-2019 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shakarocks (Post 1990763)
All it takes is a bit of money to upgrade and old Wakesetters get a new lease on life as surf boats. This was filmed on an older VLX:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nVJmuGzteI



We have systems on all kinds of older 'Bu's and it works great. Ballast must also be addressed.



I probably shouldn’t have said “I doubt you’ll get a surf wave”. You could slam it with ballast, and put a surf system on it, and get some kind of a wave. If I wanted a wake boat, I’d still ride behind a wakesetter, they’re great for wakeboarding. What I should have said was “I personally wouldn’t put the effort and money into a wakesetter to try and get a surf wave”. You’ll end up dumping $8-$10k into a boat you just bought, for a mediocre wave, and probably break your new boat, or not be able to get on plane, because it wasn’t designed for a bunch of excess weight. I’m sure it’s doable, and I’m sure guys have done it, hell, there’s probably out there riding an insane wave behind a wakesetter, somewhere, but some stuff is just diminishing returns.

Zackdogg 08-07-2019 12:07 PM

Ps, I don’t claim to know everything! Happy to say I’m wrong if someone wants me to ride behind their Bu. If I like it, I’ll be happy to say it. Just throwing my experience out there.

COV2 08-07-2019 3:33 PM

I too was in the same boat two years ago. I found a 2006 Centurion Enzo SV230 with about 450 hours on the clock and in very good shape with lots of maintenance performed by the dealer. Paid $25k for it. I put $6k into installing the Infinity Wave Mfg tabs, a dual wing center tab, upgraded ballast system, speakers, and minor miscellaneous cosmetic repairs. I have a phenomenal wave. Goofy is almost better than regular and waves are highly adjustable. I have a total of 29 trouble free days at Lake Powell with amazing surfing. I can switch from side to side in minutes. You cannot go wrong with an Enzo and it should fit your budget. The infinity Wave Mfg tabs are a game changer and a bargain. They will also make the double wing center tab for you.

rexlex01 08-07-2019 3:51 PM

If he can’t get a 22VE in his garage might as well get a 24VE https://boats-from-usa.com/tige/tige-24ve-115142

Drbabs 08-08-2019 3:36 AM

sounds like everyone is against the 04 vlx so i am now looking at 04 avalanche and of course tige 22v, ve.
1. any big difference in V vs VE? just trim levels as i am reading ?
2. what loss will i have in getting those tige pre 06? found an 04' and my budget may be tight as it looks like i may have to upgrade our old tow vehicle.

parkcityxj 08-08-2019 8:18 AM

I have a 04 22V with the ZR6 motor, it's been great and throws one of the best surf waves I've ever been behind. I've surfed behind quire a few 100K+ surf boat as well. I've owned it for three years pretty much trouble free other than basic maintenance.

I had to put in a new steering cable this year, and last year I replaced the exhaust manifolds as they were rusted out. I do all the work myself.

The hulls from the V/VE are slightly different but there isn't much difference in the wave. You can stuff a little bit more ballast in the rear lockers of the 22V. The Ve is more or less an updated V. Better captains chair, updated dash, better vinyl styling, walkthrough transom, etc.

There are a handful of nice 22Ves out there in the sub 35K range I've seen recently. I've also have seen a few RZ2s sub 35K, they have the same hull below the water line as the Ve.

I'd pay around 25K for a 22V. Anymore than that I'd start looking for 22Ves. I personally wouldn't pay more than 20K for a 21V.

Make sure whatever you're looking at has perfect pass, a bimini top, good trailer, ballast is a bonus but can be added for a few grand.

rexlex01 08-08-2019 10:26 AM

And if you’re real real handy you could possibly get this 2011 RZ2 for $15k. LOL

https://www.shoppok.com/keys/a,29,10...ce=clazoutfeed

wombat2wombat 08-09-2019 2:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbabs (Post 1990785)
sounds like everyone is against the 04 vlx so i am now looking at 04 avalanche and of course tige 22v, ve.
1. any big difference in V vs VE? just trim levels as i am reading ?
2. what loss will i have in getting those tige pre 06? found an 04' and my budget may be tight as it looks like i may have to upgrade our old tow vehicle.

I'd do more research but I do know the 2006 Tige's were just junk & had a ton of issues with their cruise control & could never get it fixed. That hull does make a good wave though with the right weight & a suck gate.

Are the lakes you're on choppy? If so, get a deep V hull like the Tige, Centurion, MB. The low freeboard on the early Malibus can get down right sketchy when you load up 3500 pounds. & rattle your teeth lose when riding through the chop.

Drbabs 08-10-2019 11:11 AM

sorry again to drag this on. hoping to make a purchase this week. what do you guys think about this boat?
2003 226 LE
good hull?
heavy boat, i read.
good quality.
low hours.
https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/57106999
but hows the WAVE :)

rexlex01 08-10-2019 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbabs (Post 1990907)
sorry again to drag this on. hoping to make a purchase this week. what do you guys think about this boat?
2003 226 LE
good hull?
heavy boat, i read.
good quality.
low hours.
https://classifieds.ksl.com/listing/57106999
but hows the WAVE :)


Run

Drbabs 08-10-2019 5:34 PM

ok rexlex dont do that. what do you mean? like as in run from or to?

denverd1 08-12-2019 8:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbabs (Post 1990912)
ok rexlex dont do that. what do you mean? like as in run from or to?

he's saying don't buy that boat.... ad has been pulled so can't confirm it has issues

rexlex01 08-12-2019 3:52 PM

Among many things the 226 Needs calm water more than most of its contemporaries. It’s very touchy in Rougher water and with side to side weight distribution. Shallow bow seating and transom vents letting water in when heavily listed are just a few reasons.

Drbabs 08-12-2019 7:45 PM

OK trying to make a purchase within a week or so, give or take one place in the lineup, how does this new shopping list look, in order of preference?.

1.Naut 220 06-08
2. Avalanche
3. Naut 210te 2007 2008
4. Cen Enzo
5. Tige 22ve, V .
6. Cyclone 21' 06-08
7. Naut 226

rexlex01 08-13-2019 8:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbabs (Post 1990686)
Long time reader. First time posting here, first time boat purchase. A little nervous. Last posts asking about boats under 40k were from spring and summer 2018 so..


I would love some feedback on boats with the following priorities

#1. Budget $25-30k
2. 21-22' preferred length to fit in the garage which has a 23-10" length
3. reliable boat and motor (engine, components, longevity)
4. . Surf wave quality as is ( its going to take awhile to learn to boat before i can learn to adjust wake, ballasts, fins, gates, wedges etc)
5. 12-14 seater
6. Heater (wife, lol) and kids are 11,9,6,2. We boat cold utah mountain lakes and i want a longer season. Not sure if that can be added after market.
19. cool graphics ;)

constantly debating with friends about getting an old top of the line boat vs a newer base model (moomba, heyday,sanger, etc). Read those threads too. THANKS ALL!

]

Are these priorities in order of importance?

If they are, then you have put, budget, length, reliability ahead of surfing.
Therefore, considering the law of averages and several mathematical algorithms, you might want to look for the most OCD, picky anal owner of a Nautique that was babied and maintained with the greatest attention to detail and perfection that it makes following just the owners manual as reckless abandonment and is willing to give t away

shawndoggy 08-13-2019 12:29 PM

At this point in the season you are going to be way way way better off waiting six weeks to buy. Prices gonna drop fast in the couple of weeks after Labor Day.

Drbabs 08-13-2019 6:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexlex01 (Post 1990957)
Are these priorities in order of importance?

If they are, then you have put, budget, length, reliability ahead of surfing.
Therefore, considering the law of averages and several mathematical algorithms, you might want to look for the most OCD, picky anal owner of a Nautique that was babied and maintained with the greatest attention to detail and perfection that it makes following just the owners manual as reckless abandonment and is willing to give t away


Who is this . I love this guy

Drbabs 08-15-2019 8:39 AM

HI guys!
i may be making an offer on a 210TE tonight. the guy wont let me take the boat to a shop to check it out. says not worth the hassle for him, that the boat has so few hours that it will sell anyway (its that one with 220hrs 06'). is that normal?

also, does the 210 and 220 have that full length deep V hull like the tige and avalanche? or does it flatten at the transom? would you guys feel safer in a 220 than the 210 at powell in bad chop?

rexlex01 08-15-2019 10:25 AM

Here is what some have said over on planet Nautique:
“if you're mission priority is surfing, then tubing, go 220. The 220 surf wake is really good, maybe one of the best in the lineup, IMHO, the 220 produces one of the better surf wakes in the Nautique lineup. The layout in the 220 is much more roomy than the 210, and the "humps" are very functional.
If you're thinking 210, definitely '07 and newer is the hull you want. Great wakeboard wakes (and much more versatile than the OG 210 hull ie. '95-06, and can surf pretty well.”

“agree with most of the responses here; unless you're super advanced or really picky about your wakeboarding wake the 220 could be a great boat for you. I actually prefer the size and layout (and the trash can) of the 220; but because wakeboarding is my biggest priority I could never own a 220. For a family surfing and tubing an elite pro-level shaped wake shouldn't be your #1 priority, that boat will certainly tow a 5yr old granddaughter. Might consider resale too though; you're going to be reselling to families that tube rather than the core riders market- which could be a good or bad thing, but know that because of its rep even without ever riding it, plenty of people will avoid that boat unfortunately.”

“literally was in this exact same dilemma last summer. The 210 ended up fitting my needs much better, but thats because I am a wakeboarding "family" with two young girls. We primarily wakeboard and for us this was the selling pont of going 210 over the 220.

1st off though as mentioned there was a huge redesign in the 210 from 06-07. You got an entire new boat in 07 with way more room, a much more versitile wake, and a much better riding open water hull. So you are getting way more boat with the 07 with regards to space, ride and design as well as more of a multi-wakesport wake.. I would ditch the 06 210 and go 07-08-09 for the fact you are wanting to surf. its much more of a direct comparison to the 220 The newer hull surfs 10 fold what the older(pre 07) hull did.

In your case wanting to primarily surf I think the 220 would be the ideal ticket. IT has a bit deeper v on the hull. This is better for surfing, but adds to the reason it's weight sensitive for wakeboarding. The boat produces a great wakeboard wake when weighted evenly, you just have to make sure people are in the right spots. The deeper v hull allows the boat to list a little easier for surfing and requires a little less weight to sink the boat down when compared to the 07-13 210. There is no hull change in the 220. However there was a drive train change from 2006-2007. The prop rotation changed. IF you're a regular foot rider (IE surf the passenger side) you will want to focus on the 2007+ 220 because the prop spin will keep that side a little cleaner. IF you're a goofy footed rider then you will want to ideally find an 06. The 220 is goin to have more storage in the rear trunks which is great for the extra ballast you want for surfing. The prices on the 220 are a bit lower because it was a boat that only had a very short run production wise.

The 07 210 is a unique animal It's top deck style was only produced one year. However the hull ran from 07-2013 This is a great barganing chip and the reason you see 07 210's quite a bit cheaper than the 08's. The hump has nothing to do with its rigidity or makes the boat anymore structurally sound. What they are describing is the fact the rear bench portion isn't a straight across, traditional, v-drive style bench. The motor cutout sections it off a bit. The idea behind this was to give passengers a little more leg room in the cockpit when stretched out for cruising. However it shortened the storage compartments in the back and really "chunked up" the seating. It's just personal taste. However being that you want to surf the smaller storage compartments mean less room for extra ballast.

The 220 I think would be an awesome choice in your price range especially because you are more surf oriented than wakeboard oriented.I dont think you're going to come across very many 210's in the sub 40k range. The 220's will be more in your range. 210's still fetch a bit more money. It's somewhat of a tradeoff. You pay less up front for the 220, but if you ever want to try and sell it outright you may take a hit trying to sell it because its not a hugely popular boat. The 210 will cost more up front but it will be easier to unload than the 220 if that's any of your concern. Either the 210 or 220 will pull tubes and get around the lake equally well. Kind of up to you to pick which you like better. Honestly yourself not being a huge wakeboarder, I dont know that it makes a difference which one you actually choose. The surf wakes are pretty comparable as is the performance for family time. I still primarily wakeboard, throw on a ski, and surf the least..... so the 210 was more versatile for me on the wakeboard and ski side. For you on the surf side both boats would be equal. Find a clean, well maintained 220 or 210 and jump on it you wont regret either.”

Hope this helps!

Drbabs 08-18-2019 7:23 AM

Rexlex I cant thank you enough. I've got a deposit on a 220 and a test drive this saturday ! Thanks for ALL the awesome details! Its tough buying boats sight unseen . I'll post a photo soon. Thanks all

Drbabs 08-19-2019 11:54 AM

Rexlex and EVERYONE, of course. thanks all

Drbabs 08-26-2019 9:02 AM

https://photos.app.goo.gl/hQBSD1Pq2enyTEeR6

Drbabs 08-26-2019 9:06 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here she is . ! Man I was so nervous and so excited ! Thanks everyone !
Interesting , the wave was excellent with both rear ballast filled , no belly ballast and a nauticurl shaper. Wish I had taken a pic of that

rexlex01 08-27-2019 4:28 PM

Congratulations! Nice boat.
What year, motor, heater?
Fit in the garage?

Drbabs 09-04-2019 4:38 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Rexlex!
its a 2006 220 te. has a heater though the hoses need some simple repairs.
it barely fits in the garage and we are having fun towing the littles on tubes and kneeboards while we try to dial in the wave!
500lb sacs were already added to the existing stock ballasts in the port and starboard ballasts. we are setting perfect pass to about 10.5 , six people on the boat. the goofy wave is tall smooth and short pocket. the regular wave is tall short and a little bit foamy.

i think we'll try to increase speed a touch and put kids in the bow.

infinitysurf 09-06-2019 2:34 AM

Congrats on the boat....try some list to the boat. Even with a suck gate shaper on the deeper V hulls having some list can help clean up the wave (noted that you said the regular side has some foam/prop wash). To make the wave longer, bump your speed up to 11mph and and/or add some bow ballast but one you start adding bow ballast you may need to add more overall weight to the boat and wave will just get better.

jonblarc7 09-06-2019 3:02 AM

Why are you not towing from the tower?????

hal2814 09-06-2019 4:02 AM

The 220 is a solid surf hull. With it being a 2006 you’re looking at a right handed prop and a slightly better goofy wave. I’ve only surfed a 220 once. It was a 2006 so same prop rotation. We listed the regular wave a little, used a surf gate, and went slightly faster than the speed we went on goofy but I don’t remember the exact numbers. They were piggybacking 750lb bags in the back and something either in the ski locker or under bow. In my opinion the surf wave was at least on par with anything else that size. Keep in mind anyone offering advice online for a 2007 or later 220 has a left handed prop and the specifics might not work for you.

Drbabs 09-06-2019 4:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonblarc7 (Post 1991457)
Why are you not towing from the tower?????


just look at everything else thats wrong with this picture, LOL.
our rope was just too short to tow from the tower. but does it make that big of a difference?

Drbabs 09-06-2019 4:29 AM

HAL and INfinity,
I will try adding a little more to the bow. and have everyone sit on the port side (is that what you mean by list?)
The 52" board im on here must be a little too small. I could not get much push and i kept catching edges. I got that butter bar from a friends recommendation, but he is much more advanced. Its more of a skim style board.
Ill try upping the speed a touch also, we were at 10.5
thanks everyone. Its been a real adventure so far!

hal2814 09-06-2019 5:00 AM

Yes, listing just means adding more weight to one side than the other, causing the boat to lean towards the surfer. Before surf gates, that was the usual way to get the wave to form on one side of the boat. Very generally speaking, listing provides better push while surf gates provide better shape.

jonblarc7 09-09-2019 4:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbabs (Post 1991460)
just look at everything else thats wrong with this picture, LOL.
our rope was just too short to tow from the tower. but does it make that big of a difference?

It's always easier to get up with the rope attached to the tower. It pulls you up instead of dragging you through the water. Either way have fun and enjoy the new boat.


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