What trick do you find really hurts you the most? <BR> <BR>For me its a Batwing. After I have a solid batwing day, my shoulder KILLS no matter what and my back knee seems to take a beating.

Landing toeside in the flats is something I never enjoy doing much.

I prefer TS in the flats over HS. I can take a HS 180 into the flats bigger than a regular HS jump. I'm better at landing on my toes. <BR> <BR>HS 540 in the flats has done the most damage to me. And I've still only landed a few.

I would say Tanny ankles

I'm right there with you J-Rod. I prefer them to just wake to wake HS with a grab because the chances are higher I'm going to hurt something.

I'm much more comfortable landing toe than heel. For me spins can be, and usually are the most brutal wipe outs. I'm always catching an edge on the landing.

Landing - any Tanny Trick hurts, reg., fakie, or blind <BR> <BR>Falling - TS Back-Revert/TS 5's ... if you come up a little short and don't expect it, that faceplant is terrible

Tantrums! I have sprained my ankles more than once, and injured my "good" knee in the past, then broke my tibia into numerous pieces this summer on a tantrum.

1 fall, raley blew out my knee.

Pretty much any trick you get lazy or sloppy with can be the worst.

Toeside into the flats weight on the back foot... That always kills my right knee.

For me its the HS roll-to-revert. Sometimes my board would stick on the landing and twist my knee all funny...scared me enough that I'm done with it! <BR>I'm also like J-rod. I like landing in the flats TS way over a HS flat landing. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by parkgirl on December 03, 2007)

it doesn't matter what trick it is but if you catch the front edge on any trick the faceplant is horrible

Off axis 180's off the double up that you acidently land in the flats instead of on the down curve really suck too

pretty much what jeremy said is the only time i have actually been like owwwwww i needa take a short break

Most 360 crashes are really hard on me. All of my worst injuries have come from being slammed down after catching an edge on a failed 3.

HS BS 180. I slapped my balls trying that trick all summer. Good thing I've already got 2 kids...

get a pair of biker shorts with the padded crotch and wear them under your swim suit for ball-slapping protection... works wonders, my brother suggested it to me and now i pass it on for whatever it is worth

BACKSIDE 5s torn my azzz up! Slam after slam, nothing like that backside whiplash.

I like J-Rod have trouble with HS 540. That trick makes me so mad sometimes. Love my TS though!!

Any trick that you catch The sneaky backside edge. Especially when it feels like someone grabs each end of our spine and just yanks... Plus you can't breath. I will take a front edge over a backegdge or noseedge anyday! <BR> <BR>I seem to dig my nose in every once in a while and that really kills my right ankle for a week or 2 <BR> <BR>(Message edited by SDAhockey21 on December 03, 2007)

Great topic: <BR> <BR>Watching the pro wakeboard video's Its seems like there is 2 diffrent ways of landing. <BR> <BR>#1 On the transition. (smooth and easy on your body) <BR>#2 In the flat's. (crashing down hard on your body) <BR> <BR>The people going Huge into the flats IMO will sooner or later be walking with a cane or knee brace or be washed up sooner or later. Seeing Sapiro having to go threw spine stretching because hi back has compressed from hard landing's Into the flats is a window in to the future for anyone looking to land huge into the flats over and over. <BR> <BR>So I would say landing hard into the flats over and over is "The hardest trick on your body" <BR> <BR>How come some one hasent come out with a Wake widener, some way of making a transition 15 feet off the wake. I was thinking it would be cool for another chase boat to figure out where a pro rider wanted to land and put his wake right where the guy would be comming down.

I have seen HS Front Flips destroy more than one persons knee. <BR> <BR>andrea, I learned roll to reverts with out a tower or fat sack. I thought I lost my eye balls more then once.

The tricks that are done way into the flats are harder to judge a landing (distance wise) and the transition of a wake is 1-2 feet so when your flying say 50 feet through the air 1-2 feet is a hard spot to find. I do agree that the flats is the hardest place to land (I'm proof of that) but its alot better then casing the wake which would happen alot if you were trying to W2W a raley type trick on a wider wake. <BR> I was trying to give you a reason Grant , I think i did?

Oh and when I was trying them TS wirlys I got wrecked a bunch on that trick befor I gave up on it.

My worst "landing" was casing the wake, for sure. <BR> <BR>trick = crow

Digging the nose getting pulled out the front on a HS FS 3. I've been riding since 1994 or 1995 and didn't try a HS 3 for almost 7 years because I got worked on them so hard back in the day. I HATE going out the front on those...or under-rotating and catching that back edge. <BR> <BR>It's funny that some of you say TS in the flats is better than HS. If you're ready for the landing on a HS trick in the flats, then it really doesn't bother me much. But no matter which way I try to bend and absorb the TS impact and stay one edge, it still really hurts.

casing the wake... i got a fat ass wake... happens often when trying to learn new tricks <BR> <BR>if i don't charge my wake with almost all i have, i won't clear it... try doing that while learning a 180, 360, or invert... sucks <BR> <BR>i'm gonna shorten my rope length

forgot about 360's my worst fall ever was probably me trying to do a 360 and having no idea really how to do it so i charged the wake as hard as possible and just started spinning immediately so my body got all laid out and i landed in the flats laid out spinning. Completely knocked the wind out of me only fall I've ever had that realll hurt

Sliders can tear you up.

"G" making a wake widener would be a waste of time when you can just adjust your rope length and speed...

bs 3's get me...i ALWAYS knock my wrist on the back of the board when i eat it.

I would say over time it would be; learning the Tantrums. (after dozens of falls my ankles and shoulder were never the same). <BR> <BR>As for the immediate pain; Raley (especially when you come up short)and if your still conscience.

backside heel 5 has got my number, many times. that backside mousetrap doesn't forgive very much. from other friends though, seen them eat it really bad coming up short on pete's...then comes the concussion.

Waitin a lil too long to add a 180 in....lol<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

"that backside mousetrap doesn't forgive very much" <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> That's funny

toeside backside 3's. <BR> <BR>theres an edge lurking around every corner

Any trick that delivers a lake (delta in my case) enema or a speed bag (ball slap).

i caught my toe edge trying threes. The people on the boat said before my head hit the water my board came over my head and went into the water first. Full on Scorpion, worst fall ever. I dont really remember the whole thing

for me OHH= concussion <BR>learning backrolls= broken rib and ruptured ear drum(two seperate accidents) <BR>hs'3 and bs 180's = got my bell rung to many times to count.

i guess i shoulda read the post. the tricks that i currently try to do that kill me are batwings and ts raleys. same problem as you, shoulder freakin murders me afterwards.

Yeah i was talking about tricks that you everyone can land that punish your body but you do anyway. As for learning tricks, i think pete's hurt me the worst and indy glides were pretty mean falls

Lets see... heel side 3 with a major heel side edge catch, you don't come out of your bindings, get a major concussion, dislocate your shoulder, and have to have someone come get you out of the water because you cant move and don't know exactly where you are because you cant see, and you also don't feel your arm go back in the socket. I guess thats kind of a plus. Darn that trick... look forward to trying it again as soon as i get back out on the water.

What a bunch of babies, you're all landing on water - how bad can it be??<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/524333.gif" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>j/k!!! - after reading the above I'm happy just driving the boat! <BR> <BR>From a spectators viewpoint the worst crash I have ever seen was Buffalow throwing one of his big tantrums and having his board snap on landing - 300lbs (at the time) stopping instantly!

for me is rotations like 360 to abrupt facepalnt or worse the dbl back of the head hit where you hit hard between back and shoulder blades and the for drives your head anbd neck upward then slmas it back down onto water..ouch!! <BR> <BR> takes days to work that soreness out..

well. my balls got skinned on a frontside 180 once. but the worst injury ive had was really embarrasing i just ollied out of the wake switch for warm up, and got a concussion on the last ride of the season.

OH! i forgot about mine this spring...Back Roll 2 Submerged Log 2 Faceplant on Log. Results in REALLY Bloody Nose, and a hole in my tongue that i shoulda put a stud through lol That tops my list...<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/sad.gif" border=0><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lame.gif" border=0>

Ouch Ben. You're lucky you didn't get rocked like Tyler Killingsworth. He had a more serious run-in with a log.

the 3. the edge catch should be on everyones list. I remember having to swim to get to the surface, and I started swiming in the wrong direction!

yup that what happened to me. So whats the real trick to 3's. I think i start spinning to soon of the wake. Do i just need to wait to be in the air first?

Jrod, what happened to him? not up on that one....

Jruss, <BR> <BR>pop, pull, pass. <BR> <BR>wait till you are about to come down, then start spinning

HS front flips kill me. I feel like my leg is going to snap. Front to fakie's are just fine though. Also roll to blinds hurt me too. I always end up landing tail heavy.

hey grant west, watch transgression, randall jumps two boat wakes kinda like what you said in your post

For me the trick has hurt the most trying was OA 3... coming up short and casing the wake, or over-roating to 5 and face planting. The most injuries have been on HS 5. One broken finger and 2 cases of torn abs from blowing out the back. <BR> <BR>UJ

Grant, <BR> <BR>To attempt to answer your question..... <BR> <BR>Every rider (except for maybe Harris) has tricks they execute W2W, AND tricks they can take into the flats. No one lands all of their tricks in the same place. I think that if you measured the distance to the flat landing and made the wake that wide so that everything was wake to wake, a lot of guys would be coming up short on most of their tricks. <BR> <BR>Also, once you make a wake that wide, you can't get much of a run at it. You could theoretically edge all the way out to set up, and only get a 10 foot runway at a 30 foot wide wake.

James: Thanks Ill check that out. I have see videos of Sean Obrein and he lands right on the transition almost every time super smooth and easy on the knees and back. With that kind of riding I would think you could stay in the game alot longer. <BR>Jrod: your right Im sure every rider dosent take every trick out into the flats. Watching Harris land out into the flats it looks like a controled crash. Lymans section in Relentless looks much the same All his huge jumps out into the flats look like crashes. Yes your right you could only have the wake expander on one side. The side your jumping on. Wouldnt it be cool if the rider could dial in where the transition was. The thing that made me think about it was MOTO X you dont see them landing onto flat ground EVER. But keeping with the orignal question "What trick is most Punishing on your body" Im guessing if you pull off any trick in the transition they are all pretty much the same impact.

grant not stirring anything with you or anything but i race motocross and i land on flat ground all the time even off 60 foot tables there is a trick to it to accelerate and the back wheel comes down and moves you forward therefore carrying your speed forward and not down hard.

I know what you're saying Dan. I don't race, but I do ride. Landing on the gas and carrying forward momentum is a big part of it. <BR> <BR>You can do this in wakeboarding by holding your line tension throughout the trick and landing further out, and apposed to taking the trick up and landing just slightly in the flats with no forward speed or momentum. I've found the landings in the flats to be more forgiving the further out I go. <BR> <BR>With that said, if you're scrubbing the 60 foot table correctly, then you're not going very high either. Taking a 60 footer UP high, to a flat landing sounds crushing. I've come up short on 50 foot tables on the track and damn near eaten my handle bars. That's what I get for riding a track that is out of my league.

ye have you seen bubbas scrub?i try that alot and always on the throttle racing you lose speed if you go high aswell and can come up short thats why i like to brush and keep speed as for the most punishing trick on your body i tried an s-bend once..

definately HS 3's. <BR> <BR>until i learned how to do the trick, the hit was BRUTAL...i quit trying them one summer all together cause i'd catch an edge so hard, it felt like someone hit me in the back of the head with a baseball bat and my vision would black'n' / i'd see stars or black spots everywhere for a while and feel fuzzy....NOT FUN. <BR> <BR>i've only tried 3 raley's and almost stuck em all...but i've heard those hits are re-COCK-u-LOUS!! and i'm glad i haven't taken one...yet LOL. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by slaysher on December 05, 2007)

Catching the HS edge is by far the worst. My neck still hurts from a fall Memorial Day weekend (Sunday at about 9:15 am), since then I have been tentative with going Blind into the flats. I came down a little over my toes, the board slipped a bit then the HS caught. The fall damn near sommersalted me in the water, my helmet was probably 30 feet away. I am still working on my blind landings, now I just think too much about them. Headcase...TBD? I would rather take anything over the toes before going over my heels again. However, if you aren't falling you are not trying hard enough.

Michael~ <BR> <BR>I strongly agree with you! HS edge catches are the worst. I would way rather take it on my toes and get slapped in the face than the whiplash of a HS edge. I caught a blind landing like you last summer, took 6-8 months and MANY massages to feel better.

backside 360s work me over good, miss that handle and your going in full speed into a backside nose dive.

Ben, <BR> <BR>Here is the Tyler Killingsworth story <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/192851.html?1097812858" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/192851.html?1097812858</a>