is there a good line that is 60FT withOUT all take-offs (would be 65ft with handle). <BR> <BR>i see some at 63ft, but that's it... <BR> <BR>i've seen some garbage nylon ones, but nothing spectra or coated. <BR> <BR>tia

I don't think any of the manufacturers sell ropes that short. You will get a full length mainline but you will also get 3 five foot sections.

Why so short ?

Bruce I think the spectra all start around 65 with handle. Look in the thread about the new accurate doohickey (yes that's the tech term) for ropes. There is a great explanation of how to shorten a rope without knots.

errrr, because i'm a noob. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>we're beginners and we've currently got an a-line which is 80ft with 3 5ft take-offs. if i understand it right, you take off all the take offs and add your handle you're at 70ft (08 accurate murray handle). is my math right? <BR> <BR>well we ride at 21-22mph (i know this is a little slow), with about 1300 in ballast. we're about 4-5ft shy of the sweet spot, maybe less. the bigger issue is that the wake is pretty wide this far back at this speed and we're not clearing it. <BR> <BR>so there it is. i guess what i'm wondering is, how long is the a-line without all the take-offs? i need 5ft less than that. is it possible? <BR> <BR>and yes, i know we need to speed up, but we eat it a lot and that extra couple mph hurts!!!!

thanks m-dizzle, i'll try and find that thread.

What TT's answers aren't good enough for ya BM? <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>

Bruce, dump the weight and ride at 70. you dont' need the added ballat.

The wake is wide because your going slow. <BR> <BR>Nice boat in your profile. They throw a great wake when slammed.

ha ha, coz, just coverin my bases!!! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>sam, thanks, but no thanks <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

"Bruce, dump the weight and ride at 70. you dont' need the added ballat." <BR> <BR>I ditto that. if you are indeed a noob, no ballast is required to learn the proper techniques. as you slowly improve, start adding a little ballast here and there. you will save some gas money this way as well.

Bruce, <BR>Sam has a pretty good point here. If riding with over 1K in ballast, you will probably need to speed the boat up by only 1-1.5 MPH. There is nothing wrong with riding @ 22MPH, but if you can't get to that "sweet spot" with the rope/skill set you have, you may not require that much ballast. Shortening the rope is a step in the wrong direction. Most ppl. on here will agree that when riding behind a boat with that much ballast, it is necessary to bump up the speed a bit. Or, as Sam said , dump some ballast, you don't need it yet.

thanks walt. and thanks for the other replies. the boat's perfect for us and imo throws a great wake with even moderate to little ballast, but yes we're beginners. we're edging good and are comfortable on the water and we do ride with little to no ballast at times. the wake is PLENTY big enough for us. even going up to 23mph doesn't do much to the width though. guess we'll just have to keep at it. 24mph just seems way to fast, especially when you face plant. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> i think i will try to find a 65ft (including handle) though this winter.

okay, so if i'm at roughly 1300, you guys would say take it like what 800 or 900 and leave it at 70ft? 22mph is plenty fast for us right now.

Bruce, if your weight placement is right then I have to agree with Sam and Derek. Riding faster makes everything happen faster and only intensifies bad form. With that weight you should probably be riding just a bit faster...(depending if your PP is accurate). You have an ABSOLUTELY beautiful boat, there is no real need to add weight and stress to it if your not going to take advantage of it. Personally IMHO you should be able to go w2w hs and ts in control with grabs at 70ft before you start adding weight. Otherwise big wakes will promote lazy form and worse falls. I catch myself getting lazy and have to "posture up" to get full pop occasionally...again due to being lazy because of large wakes. <BR> <BR>BTW what is your weight displacement, it may be too ass heavy.

by the way, the 1300 is (2) 750's 3/4 full and the locker sac.

thanks dizzle, all this is really helpful stuff. appreciate the comments and i guess what you guys are saying is right. if i ride with less ballast and back down to 22, that wake to wake width increases again though doesn't it?

another vote for reducing the amount of ballast. honestly, if you're looking at a 65 foot line you don't need any ballast at all. maybe try just the locker sac...

..and you're too rear heavy. The 205V likes bow weight

Bruce, <BR>There's no reason to take weight out if your only running 1300 pounds unless you feel the wake is to big for you. If your good with the wake size/shape and boat speed stay there. IMO going short on the rope leaves you with less time to set up a nice progressive edge.

dump all the ballast, and go from there. 70' with no ballast, and 21-22 mph should get you w2w with proper form in no time.

thanks scott, buying the fly high bow sac this winter.

i've got a braided (not coated) spectra rope with a main section about 55 feet. it originally was longer but then got wound up in the prop one time - and snapped. searched here and learned (somewhat) how to repair it. <BR> <BR>i made a mark on the rope about 18 inches (20 would have been better) from the tag (cut) end. i inserted a pencil into the core of the rope at the mark, and threaded the pencil through core - away from the tag end - until I brought the pencil tip out about 6 inches from insertion. taped the tag end to the pencil eraser, pulled the tag end in through the insertion and out to the exit, where i detached it, and then poked it back in to leave it buried in the core of the rope. <BR> <BR>this should give you a 6 inch loop (7 inch would be better). now you got to tie some crazy knot at the base of the loop in order to match the factory original. good luck there. trial and error is all i can say, or also imitation of knots you might have used to tie a canoe on a car.

walt, in all honesty, the wake's pretty big. <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> (for me) <BR> <BR>/begin ego deflation now <BR> <BR>lol

I'd dump some weight in the rear. If your gonna run 750's, even if they're only half full, you need something up front. Right now in our boat, same as yours, we're running just stock 250's in the rear, locker sac, and then add our other sacs to the walkway and cockpit area. About 24 at 75 and its perfect. Like others say, this hull likes weight up front! <BR> <BR>But to get back to your original question, I learned the fundamentals behind our X1 with no ballast on a 65 foot rope (mainline + handle). Once you get comfortable heel and toeside, I'd bump it out to about 70, fill up the ballast, and at about 22-23 mph you should be good to go.

forgot to add that, while attempting to tie that knot at the base of the loop, it helps to safety pin the 6 inch (8 would have been better) section left inside the core, so it does not get pulled out.

Bruce, I posted this in another thread but here is the gist for how things should naturally go down with your weight setup and riding setup, rope, speed, etc.: <BR> <BR>You start out around 65ft and get good at going both directions, good pop etc. Now your going into the flats a bit and looking for more height (since you can control it). The very act of going bigger naturally requires you to ride faster. It sounds weird but the landings are softer (especially in the flats) because your not sinking when you land. As a result your now riding faster and have a smaller wake. Now you start adding weight to get the wake big again. Now you got a big wake and are riding faster but taking everything into the flats....time to lengthen the line. <BR> <BR>Hope that makes sense. haha.

Ohh yah, you sound real ass heavy there. Mo bow weight for sure. If those 750's are filling to the size of the rear lockers I would say somewhere around a 5 hundo in the bow area.

The Accurate Jacket series goes that short. The shortest length with that line is either 50' (55' with handle) or 55' (60' with handle), I forget. <BR> <BR><a href="http://accuratelines.com/wake/mainlines/jacket.php" target="_blank">http://accuratelines.com/wake/mainlines/jacket.php</a>

Eagle, I used to have a jacket and its 55, so 60 with the handle.

Thanks, Roddy -- you're right, 55' (60' with handle). I like the line a lot and that's what I use. I have riders that go from 60' all the way to 80' (one extension).

Liquid force has a rope that is 55 rope only