I love originality... <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/252568.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/252569.jpg" alt="">

and liquid force is the ultamite king of that. <BR>Burton Fish, they also stole the discription. <BR>Burton Subjekt <BR>and who knows what else

HL as well. Look at the new Era and the new Dominant I believe.

there is a snowboard w/ the exact same griffin that is on the murray boards

graphics aside....the ps3 is an amazing ride

it is just a graphic at lease hyperlite isn't doing it with boards and names

The most logical answer is that it is the same artist designed both graphics. I have a boogie board that I bought in south padre with the old premier graphics (the samurai) I thought it was a bit weird but couldnt pass it up.

Guys, <BR> <BR>Why does everyone automatically assume that the wakeboard companies copied the snowboard company? I do believe that the PS3 came out in stores around the same time as the Blunt (maybe even sooner). Apparently we both (Burton and LF) were inspired by the same art style when we created the boards. Burton, LF, Hyperlite, Ride, K2, etc... we all look outside of our industry to see art trends that are happening... sometimes we see the same trend and utilize it simultaneously. It may look like duplication, or copying, but it's really just us liking the same art styles. <BR> <BR>As for the claim that we copied the name Fish from Burton... that's not correct. Have you surfed before? There's a style of board called the Fish. It's used be EVERY surfboard brand in the industry. That is where we got the name, and I'm assuming that's where Burton got it. Terje and the guys that designed the Burton Fish, surf, as well... I'm sure there thinking was the same as us. It's all the same... shorter and wider... more surface area, yet quicker turns. We all surf and we all surf on Fish's, so that's where our idea came from. If that's a crime to take a concept from surfing that we all like and put the concept into wakeboarding, than we're guilty... sorry about that. <BR> <BR>Thanks, <BR>Don <BR> <BR>

at least liquid force doesn't steal molds, then put their name on the board and say they came up w/ the design.

who did that <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> hella dirty <BR>

You mean the squirt? <BR> <BR>not steal the molds but the other companies sell them.

if you wanna get cheap and talk about copying you may as well say LF, CWB, DU, Obrien, and Gator all stole too....the original was hyperlite if im correct... <BR> <BR>(Message edited by shavis on September 06, 2005)

LF is the OG of wakeboarding. Jimmy and Tony started it all with the skurfer. And on a side note HL took badass molds and turned them in to the premier. They Told Herbie that molded fins could not be done and said it wouldn't work. Now look at all the boards and what they are based on. Herbie never got the respect he should of got. He was also the first with the split lace up bindings. He just didn't have the $$$ to back him and HL ran him over and took advantage.

there's a company out there that stole a design and marketed it as their own. no, the mold wasn't sold to said company.

Skurfer = first production "wakeboard," but really more like an oversized plastic slalom ski that you rode sideways. <BR> <BR>Redline = hand-shaped "wakeboards" made by Jimmy Redmond, much like the original HO Hyperlite or a really small version of a modern wakesurfer, made to be ridden with no boots/bindings/straps (like a wakeskate or wakesurfer). <BR> <BR>HO Hyperlite = first production (meaning mass produced) neutral bouyancy, compression molded "wakeboard," which is the type of design we all ride today, with the obvious differences of twin tips and other new technology. <BR> <BR>Several people have made MAJOR contributions to technology that has put our sport where it is today. Herbie Fletcher had awesome designs, and when Hyperlite "borrowed" one of them for the original Premier, that was dirty. The poetic justice is that Hyperlite changed Herbie's design for the worst before bringing it to production, so the original BadAss 135 rides MUCH better.

We would all be better off if the chants of "Gimmick!" and "Thief!" would subside and people could try whatever they are interested in, and decide for themselves, without others trying to put down one company or another for one reason or another.

alll i am saying is the 1st "wakeboard" was HL...

the only thing i dont like is how jstar/jobe took the premier mold, highback boots, byerly boots and who knows what else from hyperlite (dvnt,insight and lyman boots). For some reason that just annoys me that they can just change the colors, put their name on it and sell it, but i guess thats just business for ya.

You do realize that Hyperlite and Jobe are owned by the same parent company...right?

Not only owned by the same parent company, but they are manufactured in the same building with the same people doing the work using the same machines and the same tools. Hyperlite = Jobe.

Jobe is in Costco now. Thats awesome. Lyman has to be stoked.

the wakeboard market is relatively small and space at the top is hard to come by. sorry but LF is all about function and innovation through rider driven trial and error. I highly doubt that byerly was supportive of what they did to one of the most evolved and proven boards in the HL lineup. they fixed it till it broke IMO and that alone is a representation that HL is about #'s instead of actual performance. It the trend that I continually gather from HL over the years is "who cares how it rides as long as it outsells the competition." do you really think parks or byerly even like their boards?!? prolly not as long as they sell they will continue to strap it to their feet and endorse. <BR>

Whirlynuke, that profile pic is awesome! <BR>But I gotta say it pisses me off when GMC copies a Chevy truck, slaps their own name on there and sells it for a profit. Just feels wrong to me, but hey, that's business!

apparently, luke's the only one that knows i wasn't talking about hype and jobe.

so who are talking about then Joe? c'mon give us the dirt.

ringo do you realize what you just said.....and yes i do think parks and byerly like theyr boards...the byerly is still highly evolved and one hell of an advanced board...same w/ the parks....all wb company build theyr boards through trial and error...and if HL boards didnt function people wouldnt buy them.....i own both an LF and HL and they are both amazing....

didnt LF rip off the original skurfer????

YOU ARE ALL WRONG..... I INVENTED EVERY SHAPE, HAD A DREAM A 20 YEARS AGO AND ALL THESE COMPANIES GOT A DREAM READER AND TOOK MY HARD WORK DREAMING. CASE CLOSED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

Kellan, <BR>No

Kellan - Sometimes I wonder about the things you say. Do some research before you type. <BR> <BR>Tony Finn co-founder of Liquid Force and Wake Tech, was also the founder of Skurfer.

Ya I also wonder if It was Wake Tech or HL that came out with the first production board. I know they are very close. I also know Wake Tech was way ahead of HL back in the day. LF is still ahead of HL in makeing new products.

it was a question but i know looked it up....i thought because the original skurfer company was called skurfer....what i didnt know was that Tony Finn ran that company.....that is why i asked...

What's the big deal about the graphics being similar? The first thing I thought was that there was perhaps some collaberation. Perhaps the same person did the graphics. I don't know. Graphics don't make the board ride any different. <BR> <BR>And the PS3 is too good of a board to worry about graphics. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by jayp on September 07, 2005)

jayp: nuff said....

so who ripped off who Joe?

I think Joe is talking about an old thruster shape

has any one used the burton blunt because im thinking about getting one <BR>i ride mostly park and some backcountry <BR>thanks

the blunt is basically a dumbed down version of the dominant. not as stiff but still pops good, feels comfortable switch, and pretty stable landings. feels good on rails and such. i've only ridden park with it, so don't know about the deep. guess this is snowboard thread material.

yeah thanks cuz im eather getting the blunt or the dominant but my friend has used a dominant in deep snow and he said it sucked

Joe are you talking about GB and the Ricky G shape?