is anyone else a little perturbed by lymans quote. he says " ...wakeboarding is getting overpopulated with alot of shi$$y wakeboarders". perhaps he is correct but this populous of shi$$y wakeboarders are buying his sponsors product thus enabling him concentrate solely on this sport. perhaps he should be thankful wakeboarding is growing and putting money in peoples pockets rather than being a side show to skiing. dont look the gift horse in the mouth. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by alanp on January 28, 2005)

Maybe he just means there's alot of shi$$y wakeboarders. Not that it's shi$$y BECAUSE there's alot of wakeboarders. There's always a silver lineing<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>. I don't know though, maybe your right.

i think what he is saying that there are a lot of shi$$y wakeboarders.

But does he mean attitude or ability. If he means attitude that's fine in my book. If he means ability, then he's just talking trash and that's BS. <BR> <BR>BTW Who your favorite rider?<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>

When I read the rest of that quote it seems like he means people who are only concerned in becoming popular through winning comps and dont have a real love of the sport. They want to become better wakeboarders so they can get sponsored/popular, instead of wanting to become a pro soley for the purpose of riding more and doing what they love.

what is shissy anyway?

yeah mark i guess it could be construed that way, hopefully thats what he was meaning. thane, not sure what shissy is but when i figure it out ill give you a shout<IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

either way i feel that a comment like that is way out of line i mean every body is shi$$y at one point or another

I'm with you Thane. <BR> <BR>Shi$$y?????

i think he meant the $$ to be replaced by TT and didnt want it red dotted out here <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>or he could have meant that word combined with cheasy to gte Fo' Shi$$y Dude <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> <BR>

oh thanks Bill. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/triangle_down.gif" border=0>

what i think lyman was talking about is that these "shissy" riders go out and just try to do all the moves that others can do without adding there own flavor/style to them. They copy what has already been done. They want to say that they have all these spins and mobes in their bag of tricks. and i guess to keith, a rider like that is a "shissy" rider.

shissy - (adj.) a term used in describing a sideways board rider with a lack of personal style. <BR> <BR>Ryan - I can understand that.

Not so sure of Lymans comments, or the context which they were presented. <BR> <BR>"perhaps he should be thankful wakeboarding is growing and putting money in peoples pockets rather than being a side show to skiing." <BR> <BR>I have never thought of wakeboading as a side show, but rather it's own amazing entity. Wakeboarding is pretty much responsible for saving the inboard boat industry.

"Wakeboarding is pretty much responsible for saving the inboard boat industry." <BR> <BR>True. Wakeboarding in Lousisiana has a very small scene in the south. But I was the first in my area to have one, and ever since it has grown so much. There are still only maybe 4 or 5 boats with towers, but it has definately grown in the past years. I barely see skiers anymore, and they are normally the older people. <BR>

i think that he should be a lot more careful about what he says, no matter what context it was originally in

Maybe Lyman is a shi$$y?

So I guess the first time Lyman strapped on a board he was instantly great and a wakeboard god. Never was he a beginner or a shizzy rider. Should really watch what he says in an interview.

Of course, he was pro from the get-go man!! What an a$$ to say something like that. Lil bi@@@tch needs to remember where he came from. I think a lot of the pros are getting a bad attitude. It really sux for those pro riders who push the sport.

I agree with some of the guys above who said that Lyman was talking about pros who have no 'flavor' or style. Lyman can say something like that with some of the nuclear tricks he does. He has tons of style. But in order to get style, you have to have a lot of comfort in your tricks, so I am not sure if bad style is bad for up and coming pros. Now, if he is talking about guys like me who suck...then he is a shi$$y A$*Hole <BR> <BR>(Message edited by malibuboarder75 on January 30, 2005)

dude he is talking about up and coming pros who are focused on learning the next mobe for contest instead of learning it to progress. He is not talking about us "Normies"

who cares what others are doing? is the idea of "pros who are focused on learning the next mobe for contest instead of learning it to progress" having a serious impact on his life?

nah i really dont think he is saying that about other pro riders. the quote in my opinion isnt aimed at other pros rather normal folks. <BR>heres more of the quote. <BR>"i think wakeboarding is getting overpopulated with alot of <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> wakeboarders. people want to be pro wakeboarders and say. "what do i have to learn to become one?" those people dont have style, and they do the same tricks as the pioneers"...

Keith definitely isn't pointing at the general population of riders at all. You would be hard pressed to find anyone more pumped on the sport of wakeboarding than him. He spent the day with me on the boat yesterday helping a family of 3 and a couple of other guys, all in the pretty early stages of riding, and couldn't have been more into their riding. Not to mention, he is just a genuinely nice guy. <BR>Taken out of context and not knowing Keith, I can see how some people took it. But, Keith is VERY passionate about wakeboarding and improving and progressing the sport for the sake of legitimizing the sport, not himself. I can't speak for him, but I think that's what he was getting at. There are so many kids just trying to be pro, so they can say they are pro, or sponsored and look like crap doing it.(realizing I am putting myself on the chopping block at this point) They don't take the time to learn how to ride the board and make it their own, they just want to learn a bunch of tricks to claim it. <BR>Anyway, point being, Keith wasn't slamming the mass population of the sport, and definitely doesn't have a bad attitude. And, as far as pushing the sport, no one does it much harder on or off of the water than Keith Lyman. ANYONE that truly knows what's going on will tell you that!

Right on Travis. Whether that is what Keith meant or not, I totally agree with that.

<BR>hey guys this is Keith Lyman. i am very sorry that some of you have taken my quote the wrong way. if you read on the rest of the quote it says: "people want to be pro wakeboarders and say."what do i have to do to become one?" those people don't have style. and they do the same tricks as the pioneers. but if you look at ben greenwood. he does sick....everything. and then people try to copy that style and it doesn't look the same. they cant do it. cause its not him." now what i meant by this was that there has been some kids who have become pro and have been trying to steal peoples style. do stuff your own way and the way that it feels good to you. Im sure you all have seen happy gilmore the movie. remember when "shooter" is trying to swing like happy when no one is looking? thats what im talking about! do stuff your own way. once again i am very sorry that some of you have taken it that way, but looking back and placing myself in your shoes i can definitely see where you are coming from. if you have anymore questions please post them and i will try to get back to you as soon as i can. thanks to all of you people who have supported me. and i am very grateful for the entire wakeboard community i have a dream job! thanks, keith

i was in fact talking about pros.

You suck anyway Keith... LOl<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>

thanks for the clarification. i wasnt trying to rake you over the coals. to me the quote just didnt represent those thoughts. now i can put you back in my profile as my favorite rider. good luck to you.

However people feel, this guy shouldn't being saying things like this. He's supposed to be a "professional" wakeboarder. I wouldn't say that's a professional comment. He needs to remember his responsiblity as being someone with influence in this industry. It's just not a smart thing to have put on the record. <BR> <BR>Isn't he one of these guys who's parents sent him to wakeboard school at the Bonifay's and he got on the fast track to pro? <BR> <BR>I personally have more respect for those who are self-taught or pick up things along the way from their friends. You can thrash me all you want for that comment, that's just how I feel.

Alan, <BR> <BR>You beat me to it. I was planning on posting on this very subject. <BR> <BR>I was reading that article on the plane ride back from Orlando yesterday. I couldn't believe my eyes. <BR> <BR>Same with regards to the comment about copying other riders styles and tricks. Don't the up and coming younger riders sort of pick a mentor? Naturally if you like a pro's style, you might adopt some of that style into your own. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by jarrod on January 31, 2005)

like i said... <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>who cares what others are doing? is the idea of "pros who are focused on learning the next mobe for contest instead of learning it to progress" having a serious impact on his life? <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR>

Guy is just giving his opinion Joe, just like everybody else. <BR> <BR>Often on these boards, I've seen you state something to the effect of "who cares, it doesn't affect you" when people give out some opinions they have. Isn't that one of the reasons people post here, to make their feelings be heard? Why must you question what people's motives are for spouting some opinions?

i guess i just find it weird for a pro rider to give a crap about what other riders are doing, as far as riding goes. i don't know lyman, but the way i see it is, whether he likes it or not, he's a role model for the kid wakeboarders. by stating his opinion on what other riders are doing, he's basically <i>teaching</i> kids that it's ok to judge other riders and rip on them because it's they're not doing the same thing(s). <BR> <BR>that's just my take on this subject.

also, the way i understand it is, he trashing people because they're wanting to do well in comps or to be a pro rider. what's wrong with that? it's easy for him to say that it's wrong since he's already a pro, but what makes it wrong? because people shouldn't ride to compete or to be a pro? well, in some sense, i agree with that. but, remember the saying, "to each his own." let people ride for their own reason. if they have fun riding for the heck of it, cool. if others have fun by striving to be a pro or to compete, so be it. that's their decision. <BR> <BR>i'm just saying that what is fun in one's eyes, might not be fun in another's, but it doesn't mean it's wrong.

Sometimes people get caught in their own words. It's unfortunate that a pro-rider makes a comment than can be taken out of context. To me, part of being a professional athlete means thinking about things before you say them. Everything that an athlete says is going to be scrutinized by the mainstream. <BR> <BR>In this particular situation I think I disagree with Keith. I don't like watching people ride the same as eachother, either, but part of people develpoing their own style is emulating someone elses style and building from it. There are a lot of pro riders out there now, but the thing that sets apart a "name" pro rider from a no-name is their style. People develop their own style over time. In my opinion anyone that has put enough time into being a pro-level rider has to be respected. <BR> <BR>One thing that I agreee with Keith on is that people shouldn't have to ask what tricks it takes to become a pro-rider. Go out, ride, develop skills and be a part of the scene. Being a pro-rider should be something that falls into place. <BR> <BR>Just my thoughts. I still say Keith is a bada$$ rider and has some pimp moves, he just needs to watch what people hear him say.

Joe - You are right when you say some kid wakeboarders are going to look up to him and try to emulate everything he says/does, I agree with you there. It's too bad though, once my kids are a little older that is the first thing I am going to teach them, the difference between admiring someones skills and having a "role model". <BR> <BR>(Message edited by craiger on January 31, 2005)

Imagine if a football, basketball, or baseball had said this about his own sport. It'd be over for that guy and you know it. <BR> <BR>I don't know him and I already don't like him. He projects such a good attitude towards his profession.

If Parks Bonifay started doing fashion airs and winning more contests...every other young rider would copy him.

Fulton - I think you are judging Lyman way to much on one sentence (unless there are other factors you are judging him on that I don't know about). Would you like to be judged that way based on one statement you made? Nobody's perfect you know. I'm sure that, unlike the NFL and other sports you just compared it to, pro wakeboarders don't have PR classes setup for them where they can learn how to make it through an interview without saying something that someone else will take as controversial.

rammer, sounds like your kids have themselves a good dad, as well as a cool dad that rides. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0>

Thanks for the compliment Joe, I definitely try my hardest in that area.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>One thing that I agreee with Keith on is that people shouldn't have to ask what tricks it takes to become a pro-rider. Go out, ride, develop skills and be a part of the scene. Being a pro-rider should be something that falls into place.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>as much as i prefer to watch freeriding over contest riding, i'd have to disagree with this for two reasons: <BR> <BR>1) being pro SHOULD (imo), be because you're at least competing in, if not winning, pro contests - not just riding in videos and being sponsored. given that, it makes sense of course to learn what is necessary to perform well in contests. if pro contests were wide open free-for-alls with heavy emphasis on originality and personal style, then folks would be practicing that. <BR> <BR>many older pro sports that consist of performing set tricks (springboard diving, ice skating, gymnastics, etc.), have no room whatsoever for personal style and innovation. ice skating even has separate sections of their contests specifically for that reason. so to say that young riders shouldn't be asking "what mobes do i have to learn to win contests," is missing what much of the industry (read: pro) side of the sport is all about. <BR> <BR>2) one of the things i think going forward that will define folks in this sport will not be just what tricks can you do or how big you can do them (a.k.a., freeriding), but how many tricks you can consistently do <i>linked</i>. i think linked progressions will be (and perhaps already really is), what sets the real riders apart - and as far as i can tell, that discipline has mostly evolved from contest riding. <BR> <BR>i remember collin wright's sequence in 'fire it up,' and a few other short seqs here and there, but for the most part it seems (at least from videos), that linking together an impressive string of tricks is primarily the province of contest riding - and yet im now more interested in what a rider can do in his or her <i>entire</i> run, how well they flow from one trick to another, not just if they can throw some ridiculous trick or not. <BR> <BR>although i agree that folks need to find their own style, i do also believe that it's just as legitimate to work your way up thru the contests - which at least for the time being seem more focused on the technical aspects of riding. <BR> <BR>

i want to see a 1080 dammit

This thread is way too long and I only read a few of the posts, so I apologize in advance if I missed something but I just got metronome and Lyman's part is so sick. He rips, way stylie and as far as I'm concerned he can say whatever he wants.

I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. It seems a few are basing their view of Keith by one interview. How many have been at the lake and thought the same thing, too many boarders. And most aren't doing anything except creating a roller that will eventually get in my way. Now I'm not backing up what Keith is saying, I'm only saying don't judge this guy on one statement from one interview. As far as the issue that the 'new guys' are only trying to learn the big tricks to win contests (and hence go pro) well....they're contests. May the best man win. I would like to see him do a double-half-cab, double front flip or 1080.

what if people couldn't speak, and we could only express ourselves through our riding?

well i for one would have a severely diminished vocabulary!

Isn't it kinda funny how some of these pros get on this forum when someone "calls them out"? Don't get me wrong, I know Murray gets on here all the time but he IS one of those pros that is cool all of the time and really pushes the sport!!

bruce youre missing the point general public can say whatever the heck we want. we dont have to sell boards/bindings/ropes/sunglasses etc etc. inflamatory comments dont dont negatively affect us other than if we say something like that people will think we are jacka$$es.

I dont think some of you read the article, or maybe just cant read in context. It was very apparent that he wasnt talking about the wakeboarding community. I agree, some pro's now look like robots out their throwing up big tricks, they have no style, nothing that sets them apart. I sure cant call them Shi$$y because they are far superior riders, but they definetly dont make my favorite's list. <BR> <BR>Dont worry Keith, I didnt think your article was an attack on anyone.

I feel like this is being blown out of proportion. Keith is still a human being and he's entitled to his opinion--and I'm glad that WBM (I think that was the Pub) let him have it, rather than censoring him because of image issues. I'd rather hear people say there's a problem, instead of pretending like things are perfect...I hate that. <BR> <BR>Maybe keith's comments will make people think...and maybe it will encourage some creativity in their riding. OR maybe people will continue to take it personally, whether it had anything to do with them or not. <BR> <BR>Minus the unique demographic of wakeboarding, most boardsports have people that are creative/opinionated/unique, etc, etc. It just goes along with the whole cultural aspect of boardsports...like finding something do do because you love it and it's something where you can express yourself (and it's not something to do just because it's cool). With that said, I don't want the riders to be perfect, and I don't want them to be coached on saying the perfect things. They're all individuals with personal opinions, styles, actions, etc. I don't EVER want to see that snuffed out in favor of perfect PR. <BR> <BR>Finally, maybe since wakeboarding is young people can get away with just plain average riding to win a contest. But as people continue to progress and set themselves apart from others, there won't be any room for any robotic motions in contests. Again, all of the boardsports are about self expression...honestly, that should be at the top of anyone's list. And if it is, how you're feeling inside and how you want to translate that to your riding style will come out and you won't have to worry about grabbing a trick like so and so (or what have you). So I can't even condone the idea of riding to be pro and winning contests without having a unique style. But that's just me. I hold all of these activities close to my heart and I care a whole lot about them. <BR> <BR>Will you still be riding if you're not pro?? Getting free product? Chickies?

is "people riding to be on tour" or "people riding to be sponsored" really a problem though? sure, some of us may think they're ridiculous reasons to ride, but hey, that's their reason for riding. they don't need our approval. remember what i said above? <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>what is fun in one's eyes, might not be fun in another's, but it doesn't mean it's wrong.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>also, some people are driven by competition. i used to ride to compete. i had qualified for nationals, but i got bored with it. so the next person down went to represent norcal. i still enjoy tournaments from time to time, whether it's riding in one or judging, but it's not my reason for riding anymore. <BR> <BR>i used to ride for 4 companies. i'm down to 1 company, but i still love to ride as much as i did when i was a newbie.

Keith got on here because I saw it and thought that it should be addressed to "squash it". But somehow you guys keep coming at the kid. There are too many post to even address. <BR> But to answer a couple, the guy came down to ride at Bonifays for a week at a camp, like I'm sure some of you have done. And, the kid learned several inverts a day. He is just a natural. He did learn on his own. You don't teach someone like that, you make a suggestion and they do it. No one put him on the fast track, his ability and attitude did. EVERYONE that met him recognized and appreciated that, and still does. You guys are bashing him on one sentence in a magazine. So if you wouldn't be willing to say to Keith's face what you say on here, don't say it. It just makes you a chump behind a keyboard. <BR> He wasn't} talking badly about the whole sport, but stating how he feels about a very small group of riders in it. So no other riders are going to banish him, they are going to read it and agree. Is "people riding to be on tour" or "people riding to be sponsored" really a problem though? To Keith it is. You can't find someone more passionate about wakeboarding than him, so to him, its absurd. And, that's all the guy is saying. <BR> Hell, in all other professional team sports you can rape, steal, take drugs, and shoot people and still keep on. So I highly doubt this would affect someone that badly. <BR> The reason pros don't get on here more are threads like this. You guys would simply chew them up for stating how they feel. I let things slip by all the time on here, because I know that I'm not going to change anyones opinion, and that all I'm going to do it make myself look like an ass, much like some of you have done here. It's amazing. I just couldn't let this one go though. <BR> As I said before...point being, Keith wasn't slamming the mass population of the sport, and definitely doesn't have a bad attitude. And, as far as pushing the sport, no one does it much harder on or off of the water than Keith Lyman. ANYONE that truly knows what's going on will tell you that! <BR> Can I get an AMEN! <BR> <BR> <BR>

AMEN Travis I hear where your coming from, having met Keith I know he is a great ambassdor to the sport, but having said what he said he did open himself up for public scruitiny. Now with that being said in the years I have been involved in the sport (15) I have to agree with Keith I have noticed in the last two years there are kids I know and kids I see on the forums who fit into his discription. SOOOOOOOOOO many kids want to learn four tricks and get sponcored. That is not the way to do it you have to learn your craft you have to become your craft, I mean to be one with the board and the sport you must put in your time. People like Keith and say ummmm Ruck have a talent they are leaps and bounds ahead of us because of this.They happened to go to a wakeboard camp big deal! These kids don't learn from the begininng they jump in the water and want to learn inverts before they learn to go w2w toeside they need to take a progressive learning curve you and I know to be truely one with the board you need to learn things in order these kids are bypassing this and want to be fame hounds. This is just my two cents take it for waht it's worth. <BR>ITCH <BR> <BR>(Message edited by fullonsalesgrp on February 01, 2005)

Amen! Very nice. <BR> <BR>Naked Chef.....Well Said!!!! Just read your post and that is how I feel about this whole situation. <BR> <BR>This is exactly why I love this sport over all the other sports (baseball, football, etc). If you can't express yourself (on or off the water) then what is the point? I think Keith said what he neeeded to say and stuck to his guns....nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Keith, <BR> <BR>Keep doing what you are doing as long as it works for you. Many of the people posting here, would love to be making a living from wakeboarding. Talent certainly has a lot to do with that, so does time and unfortunately age. The concept of riding and winning has a lot to do with ability to perform upper tier tricks, but it is the style they are done with that ultimately decides who wins. Lots of pros can do 540's, but pokes, grabs and general flow have more to do with juding who's "best". There is also a subjective judge who has to like that style. <BR> <BR>I think that it is flattering to try to copy someones style, I'd love to look like Watson when I ride, but you are right when you say that it only looks "right" when performed by that person. If everyone tried to make their tricks look exactly the same contests would be more boring too. <BR> <BR>Good luck to you! <BR> <BR>Eric

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>So if you wouldn't be willing to say to Keith's face what you say on here, don't say it. It just makes you a chump behind a keyboard<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Very well said. <BR> <BR>Have any of you met and talked with Keith for more than just a few minutes? The guy is very nice and has the "can talk to anyone" attitude. }

I've said it before and I'll say it again to his face: <BR> <BR>"Keith, you gotta do something about the hair dude! Everytime I see it, it get's crazier and crazier. I know it's a statement and a look but bro, if you keep bleeching it like that it's gonna fall out!" <BR> <BR>Hahn <BR> <BR>p/s take it from an old guy, you want to keep as much hair as possible for as long as you can! <BR> <BR>(Message edited by solo on February 01, 2005)

I agree with Pierce...Keith is a very approachable guy. He actually approached me at OWC and we got to talking. Absolutely cool cool guy! In my opinion on of the best style in the business.

You have to take the good with the bad.. <BR> <BR>Being in the spotlight requires you to watch what you say and who you say it to. <BR> <BR>He would be best served to try and limit talk like that "on the record". Other than that let his riding speak for him like it always has!

Like has already been said, some of you are judging his whole attitude WAY too harshly on just one paragraph. Keith, Like anyone, is entitled to his oppinion, and if you dont like it, don't listen. Keith personally came on here and explained his feelings, which should have put all doubt of his integrity to rest. I mean, now we all know exactly what he was trying to say, and yet some people are still bashing him. Get over it, people.