Like to give a shout out to all of you that avoided the Delta this weekend. We had insane butter for 2 days and almost nobody out there. Man I love this sport!

i was there during the week... absolutly beautiful... Will do it again this week

Jason, We rode right past you Saturday... playing the Delta Sessions sound track! (Blue and Tan Wakesetter LSV)

We were there too on Saturday. It was great getting that kind of water with the wind blowing a bit.

Jason, we were the blue X2 out there sharing Victoria with you. It was a fantastic day on the water, I agree!!!

Jason- Whats up man. Saw you out on Sat. Was gonna stop an say hi but everytime we crossed, either I had a boarder or you had a boarder behind the boat. <BR> <BR>Was that Braddy Sammons you were following in the X-Star?

I was following Brady. Brady and one of the guys in the X-star have been out with me a few times. I love to watch Brady ride. I was in the blue and grey Malibu with the blue boss tower.

I saw Brady riding in front of us. Everyone in our boat was watch him ride instead of me....no fair!!

Brady is incredible. I saw you guys out there. I was in the black/white tige.

And thank all of you that didn't go to pedro... <BR> <BR>12 noon, north of the canyon... <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/103617.jpg" alt=""> <BR> <BR> <BR>We saw only 3 other wakeboard boats yesterday, and only one of them was pulling anyone. I guess there are some folks breaking in new boats. <BR>

The water level at Don Pedro looks pretty high. How is the water temp? Are you able to trunk it yet, or do you still need a shorty?

Mark! I'd say you had the sweetest water. What was the water temp at Pedro? <BR> <BR>

Mark B, how warm was Pedro? We went to the delta but pedro always seems to be 5 deg warmer than the delta. We rode there alot in the winter months this year.

Used a dry suit in the morning, and just a heater top by afternoon. It was about 62-65, really nice. I'm glad spring is here!!!

The water temp was 62-65?????????? That's way warm for March.

dang that pic of pedro gives me the chills i have seen it that flat maybe one outta our 10 or so houeboat trips there a yr. delta was nice on friday though

We trunked it on Sat. on the delta. Water temps (according to my boat) were 62.7. It was cold but the air temps made it nice... Next time you guys stop and say hi and introduce yourselves Please!!

Shut up squid, we never went to Don Pedro this winter! It sucked too much remember...<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/wink.gif" border=0> Can't wait to be camping in two weeks. I bet now that you see that pic you really want to head up that way. Maybe this weekend? <BR> <BR>Like squid said we were out at the Delta this weekend in a Green SAN, I remember seeing Stefani's, Rod's, Mike's, and J-Rod's boat and a group of newbs in an all blue centurion basically being dangerous, not paying attention, and screwing it up for us anytime we got somewhat near them. We weren't the only ones that had problems with them either...<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/angry.gif" border=0> Sorry if I affended anyone here that was in the Centurion, but please do us all a favor and take a boaters saftey class or ask any of us here about the "rules" of the delta and you will get more than enough help.

Hey Chad. I remember seeing your SAN drive by a few times. You talking about the Blue and white Air Warrior? Or the solid blue Avalanche?

I would like to thank those who did not go to Shasta (Little Backbone Cove) this weekend. These are the conditions that we had and woke up to in the morning looking from the houseboat. <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/103775.jpg" alt="Little Backbone">

NICE!!! The water must have been freezing though!?

Kimmy, <BR> <BR>That's exactly where we stayed two years ago!!! We hiked up the trail at the end of the cove to the waterfall, and got some awesome shots of sliding down the rock slide.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/talker.gif" border=0>

Chad, you are right on! That boat pulled their rider up numerous times right in front of us. They were powerturning all over the place and made it extremely dangerous for all of us.

Chad and Stefani, we all just don't realize how lucky we are when others know what they are doing out on the water until we see this. We should of stopped and explained to them that they were endangering them and others by there actions. They might of listened or they could of told us to $^%^ off. If they keep going there I am sure someone will tell them something. Oh ya chad, I can't wait for camping on the shores of the mud hole.

You must be talking about the tools in the Centurion? I was hoping they were going to show up at Union Point for lunch for a little chat session.

Oops..just read above. Of course it was the new units on the water. They cut us off twice and were power turning everywhere. <BR> <BR>I saw the green SAN. Was that Squids boat? <BR> <BR>I am hoping to head to pedro in a couple of weeks or something. I want to hit the lakes before the season gets started.

Rod, ya that was my boat. Those guys pulled up their rider right next to us two boats side by side going down vics. I stopped and let them go by and get way ahead of us. Then took off guess what there rider fell and did the same thing as we passed. Some people just don't get it. I ride the delta in the spring and winter then I go hide at my lake for the summer. There is nothing like a run down vics when it is just you and pure butter as far as you can see.

Hey guys, You might be pleased to know that they ran their boat aground at the end of the day on the way back to Dells.

<BR> <BR>I definitely think they were newbies... Oh, the things we did when we were newbies! However, we NEVER pulled out in front of anyone! We used to power turn though, and then get really mad and confused why we took so much water on up front! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>

P.S. Rod, did you get all the boat pics I took? Some nice ones of your Bu! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

man, J-rod I don't wish that on anyone. Hope they made it back safe.

It was minor. No damage. They weren't going fast. Some friends helped them push back into the channel. Just as we got them out, a Sanger came around the corner and did the same thing, despite our efforts to waive him away from the shallow spot.

gotta love the delta and the shallow spots... at least most the time it is very soft dirt...

Cliff, yes the Backbone waterfall is so beautiful. I love hiking up there with a big group and spending some time in the falls. I too got some great shots of everyone sliding down the rock slide from last year too. <BR>

You mean like this one? <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/103891.jpg" alt="Bacbone">

J-Rod and Rod- As squid said it was his boat. And yeah they were asses and all, but also like Squid said I wouldn't wish boat damage to anyone. Two weeks ago we were riding by railroad down the center of the slough and no one was drinking or anything and I had the tracking fin ripped clean off my VLX. It left two 1/2 inch holes in the bottom and if it weren't for our spare fatsac pump, I probably would have lost my boat. We still never seen what we hit. It was quite scary at first. <BR> <BR>Squid- Actually I meant camping at Don Pedro in two weeks you mudhole lover. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/blush.gif" border=0> Daniell says she isn't going to Arizona that weekend so it sounds like it is on!!!!

Chad, <BR> <BR>Chad, first off I am glad you and your crew are okay and also the boat too! <BR> <BR>I run railroad all the time when i ride @ the delta and your recent incident makes me nervous... Can you provide some more details, area, tide, etc? Was this soemthing fixed underwater or possibly floating debris that you overlooked, any ideas to help the rest of us...?

Aaron- <BR>It was in the last stretch of slough back in the very back by the bridge that you can't go under. It was very high tide. And we are not sure what it was that we hit. Don't know if it was fixed submerged or what. All it was was a quick thud as if someone just slapped the side of the boat, and then there was vibration and I started taking on a lot of water (my first indication was the bilge going off like mad and my boat never bilges out), we didn't realize the extent of the damage untill we got it back on the trailer. Even after we hit what we hit, we still never seen anything. There was nothing there before or after. My best guess is that it was a partially submerged log, and that I was just the one in a million that had to hit the damn thing. There was really nothing any of us could have done.

Oh and thanks for the well wishes! I am glad there was no one hurt or anything. <BR> <BR>On a side note the boat is already patched up and with the new gorilla fins I might add. I had always wanted them when they first came out shortly after I bought my boat, but as squid says, "I don't like the way you want <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> am just waiting on getting the prop back from a shop down in LA. I might be out there this weekend testing the water again. <BR> <BR> <BR>Chad

Guys, <BR> <BR>By the time Buffalow took us back to Lazy M Sunday afternoon his temp guage was reading 68 degrees. That was on Italian Slough which doesn't get the flow Old River and Vic get (so it was probably warmer there than everywhere else) but that's pretty incredible for mid March. As far as everyone can tell Chris might have hit the Loch Ness monster with Chad's boat on Railroad that day!

Just reading through this thread....since I'm fairly new I don't feel too bad asking....I know about not doing power turns, but what would be considered pulling a rider up "in front" of someone. I have pulled riders up with other boats 100 yards away. Is that too close?

I am not sure on actual yardage on when people are going to get pissed, but, basically if you and someone is in the same line (the delta makes you in the same line by default) and they pull up in front of you and you have to slow down or you are now in their wake. I would call that pulling up in front of someone. These guys were doing a quick little power turns all over and then you can basically see their eyes looking back at you to see where you are and just pull out instead of waiting for people to go by. Then of course we would have to drop our rider. They totally unleased the karma on themselves. You will know when it is too close or not. These guys should have got a clue. I yelled at the downed rider once that they should not power turn and gave the arm up jesture at them when they pulled a rider up right in front of us. <BR> <BR>Chad, <BR> <BR>Does the new fins fit on the old trailer? I drove chritie's boat and the new fins were incredible. <BR> <BR>I got the pictures Stef. For some reason it came in at the bottom of my long list of emials at work and I did not notice them for a while. Those are some nice picts. Thanks for sharing them. <BR> <BR>Squid, <BR> <BR>You should have come to Union Point. We had few people there for lunch. Hope to see you out there again soon. <BR> <BR>I want to go to the water falls at Pedro!!!! How about it Stef? You and Jason in?

We should start an informal club from wakeworld so people will know it is a friendly boat. Basically make up stickers for the side of the windshield that says "No Power Turns" or Power Turns Suck!" or "NPT" or "PTS" for short or something. I think the only people that realize it are people from wakeworld. What do you think? That way you will know it is most likely a responsible person that you can go talk to or know you are most likely not going to get killed by.

I freakin' hate all of you! Don Pedro sucks! Shasta sucks! The Delta sucks the most! <BR> <BR>By the way, Francisca and I will be up there, arriving on the evening of the 25th, and leaving early on the 29th. Let's hook up at Orwood!

Mark: <BR> <BR>Look at the boat approaching and evaluate the relative speed and skill level of the boat and rider approaching. If the guy is approaching at a relatively fast clip and his rider is ripping off tricks then you can bet he's going to overtake you relatively quickly so why not wait a minute. I'd say 100 yards is too close anyhow and go at least 200. On the other hand if I've got a novice chugging up from behind slowly and I'm pulling up someone like Buffalow with his 90' rope and 28 MPH wakeboarding speed I'm gonna pull him out of there first even if it appears I'm snake-ing the guy a bit, because that's better than trying to pass him later. Don't even get me started on power turns, I've seen more close calls from rookie boaters PTing, and almost running their skier or Wakeboarder over on the way back, than from anything else. I don't know about you guys but I can spot a bad or rookie boat driver on Vic a mile away. I guess it's their boat "body" language of something. One big PT when the current's running the right way and you're bouncing all the way down!

Rich- <BR>Loch Ness monster, that's great. He'll probably never drive a boat out by railroad again he was so upset that day. <BR> <BR> <BR>Rod- <BR>Yeah the new fins fit barely. I have a DHM for reference, I talked to my boat dealer and they said that the trailers were not changed at all for the new fins. Besides the fiberglass work that needed to be done the actual fins themselves were really affordable at 74 a piece here at my shop. I was really surprised at the price. If you do it my way you get the insurance to pick it up.... but I wouldn't recommend it....<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0> It is looking more and more like my crew will be up camping at Don Pedro from the 26th till the 28th or possibly later. Maybe you guys and your crews could set something up for then and we could kinda have an informal WW get together.

Mark- I agree with Rich, evaluate the boat approaching you, and their rider. We pull around 24-25 mph. I hate when a boat takes off in front of me and I ride their ass. Also if you see a boat coming up on you fast, move to one side of the slough or the other. <BR> <BR>And when it comes to following, stay back 150-200 yards. I hate riding when someone is following close because if I fall I don't want to be ran over.

Rod: You know we are always up for a trip to Don Pedro:-) I will email you to discuss more... <BR> <BR>

I think those waterfalls pictured above are at Shasta.

Yes, the waterfall pictures are in Shasta. Located at the end of the cove in Little Backbone. Miggity Matt took us to the waterfall. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by KIMMY on March 17, 2004)

Ok thanks guys, sounds reasonable to me. I normally pull @ 20. NOw to something a little more fun....Has anyone been to SAn Antonio lately? Can I trunk it yet?

can someone define a powerturn?

Hey Chad that sounds like it could be fun. I will look into my schedule. <BR> <BR>I would define any quick turn to go pick up a rider as a power turn. A power turn means to have the boat under power to turn around. It throws wakes in all directions and in the delta it throws rollers all the way down the canal. THen on top of that, you get a bunch of so-so riders and the end up falling because the wall of water being thrown at the boat that was in the rear position. I have seen countless time where 3 or 4 riders go down in one narrow spot due to power turners. <BR> <BR>What people like to see is you shut down your boat in the line of the rider. If you are looking out your mirror at the rider, I turn to the same direction I see my rider fall in my mirror. That way I am always in their line and nobody is goig to steer for a boat. Then when the waves pass in just a few quick seconds, I am already partially turned toward the rider and I just give it a little gas if any and idle back. If I need to get back in a hurry for a rare reason, I am already turned and can head directly in. Power turns usually end up taking a long arc and makes a boat behind you usually drive toward your rider because the power turner is off way to the side making his big turn. Then they throw the big wave at the boat behind them and all types of things can happen. You really do not save much time by doing a power turn and you usually cause way more havic and other downed riders in a small area and that is way more dangerous.

Power turn is when you are up on a plane and you suddenly pull the wheel all the way to one side and whip the boat around without first pulling the throttle back to idle, taking the boat of its plane, and letting your own wakes pass you before making your turn. It usually results in a large radius turn and always tosses a large set of rollers out in all directions, including down the line. If you look at what jetskiers are always doing and just think about doing that with a boat, that is a power turn! Surefire identifier of a novice.

Yeah, what Rod said...

You can clearly see who the professional of the bunch is here. Mine is about 9000 words and Doc gets his done in a short paragraph. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>How's that back working for you?

Well, if you ever find yourself in Little Backbone at Shasta beware of this cave. <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/104174.jpg" alt="Cave"> <BR> <BR>Because this guy lives in there. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/104175.jpg" alt="Bear"> <BR> <BR>And he's the kind of bear that will eat your sunglasses just to show you he's a bad ass. <BR> <BR>On a side note, we watched this guy swoop that fish out of the lake like it was nothing. From thirty yards away. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by migitty on March 18, 2004)

Migitty Matt: <BR> <BR>I remember that trip from last year like it was yeasterday, it was like "Marty Stouffer's WILD AMERICA" with the eagles and the brown bear sightings in a single day!!! <BR> <BR>all smiles ;)

And this is how we handle power-turners in Little Backbone! <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/104178.jpg" alt="Four"> <BR> <BR>Aaron, I'll never forget you saying "Matt, there's a bear...No...MATT, THERE'S A BEAR!!!" <BR>

And from the way I swang the club this past weekend, you power turners have nothing to worry about!

kimmy and mark those are some nice pics and they make me wnat to go ride