Gimmicks in wake
 

Bored today and surfed the net for way too long but I have managed to find a few things that I think are certifiable gimmicks and or overpriced products.

Here we go:

RONIX - I can't wrap my wind around a reason why the ONE comes in 3 different versions. It really seems pointless to me, take all your best technology and put it in one board, not 3. I think it is a cheap gimmicky way to make more money. This is exactly what they did at Hype with biolite and dna and whatever other cores they did. I just think it is lame to have so many versions of one product that is marketed as super premium in the first place.

PHALANX- 600 for a board? Seriously? I saw they had rope and handle combo's for 119 which I thought was awesome but WOW! 600 dollars for a board, that costs more than my first two setups combined. The product isn't really anything innovative over what is already out, I don't see any new tech in these boards, I know that Schmaltz built them which is awesome, you know they will be built to a high standard, but these boards should not be hitting anywhere above 499 max.

HYPERLITE SYSTEMS - I'm sorry but I cannot take these serious, I have heard some good stuff but I just see a ploy to stand out in a market that is passing a company by. I'm sure they will sell because they are eye catching and they seem to get good reviews for cable riding, but are they necessary? I remember the days of riding the original Hype stuff, like the 30/60's and highbacks. They are antiques today but if you think about it, some of the tech from those are coming back, like standard mount plates, the claw didn't last all that long before we saw the entire industry start to go back to the original. Given these old boots do not have anywhere near the comfort of the boots today, I'm sure a lot of good riders could slap on an old setup and make the bulk of us look like boys in a mans game.

I dunno if I have the rant flu or what but this stuff irritated me, list any new products that make you want to puke!

Fairly valid points about the first two, but utter bull**** about the Systems. They are obviously not necessary, but that doesn't make them a gimmick. Hyperlite thought that maybe some wakeboarders would like the feel of a snowboard-style boot/binding combo, and they were right. There's nothing gimmicky about that. They're being marketed as a more comfortable kind of bindings, and for some people, they are. Sure, some people might be swayed toward buying them because they're cool/unique/new, as with any successful product. That doesn't mean they don't offer real advantages or don't have a legitimate reason for existing in the marketplace.

i'll give you that, i'll admit to judging a book by its cover on the systems.

Logan, about your "RONIX" point. You couldn't put all the tech in one board, it would be so expensive!! and you would have to develop new technology just to make it work.
Lots of companies have offered different board options in the same shape. ie, LF Witness, with or without a grind base. LF watson, standard, flex, super light.
Look at it this way:

Modello: Base model, all around, good for beginners to pro's
ATR: Cable Model, built tough.
Time Bomb: Super high end boat model. Only really for the advanced.

Why do you have to hate?Just be happy!

Lol, Robert! I was just sitting here thinking about how few options we had in the early 90's and now we have too many!

I wouldnt say the systems are gimmicks, alot of the people who use them swear by them. But then again.. they are paid to do so

Has anyone here actually ridden two or three different versions of the Ronix One? How noticeable are the differences? Are the ATR/Time Bomb worth the extra money? I'm more pissed at Hyperlite than Ronix because even the Time Bomb was only like $530 last time I checked. That's pricey, but not horrible. The nova core 2011 Marek, on the other hand, was selling for $700. For that price, it had better be head and shoulders above anything else on the market, and I'm not convinced it is.

Modello= Light @ $425
ATR = Strong @ $425
Time Bomb + Light and strong @ $550

It is not a gimmick as much as economics. It is tough to sell a board that is much over $400. The Time Bomb is a limited run that combines a lot of high-end technology. If you have the money, it is the best option. If you don't, pick a board based on how you will use it.

I don't really think it is a gimmick.

In terms of boards selling for over $500, they are appealing to a crowd of people who have that much to drop on the newest "technology" I will not give anybody a hard time over spending that much because I am sure they love the heck out of that board and have the means to do so. I myself will not spend that much as I can do the same tricks on my $90 used watson hybrid, or closeout slingshot/every other board for under $100-200. It is a matter of learning the way the board rides. Just cause i spend 600 dollars on ronix's new whatever, I am not magically going to land every trick i've wanted to try lately. There may be a kid who buys that board and goes out and lands his first 7 or first something else and swears by it. If it works for you, then do it!

Onto the system bindings. First off, I am not a sponsored rider and I consider my skills to be relatively decent. As much as I miss riding boat (i really do) the cable gives me the opportunity to progress at a good rate without having to find boat with weight, riders, drivers, gas, coolers, beer:cool: and lots of women, all the things a boat needs. I show up, i can ride, simple. The systems are a blessing. When I am walking back to the dock through sketchy water, or jagged rocks at some parks, there is no fear of what I am going to step on and if i step on something, guess what, I am going to kick the Shi* out of it if its alive or just walk over it if its a rock. They are nice in winter months because my feet stay warm and they are really really really really simple to get in and out of plus carrying a board around a lake without bindings on it is pretty light and nice once u go to carry a board with wet boots on it (i know, i am lazy) There is the argument you are stuck in the binding when u crash. Most boots i know and people i see tighten their boots so much that you are pretty much not coming out of them so I do not consider that even a good point to make. *memories of coming ejected out of my first pair of ultra suctions back in the day just popped in my head and i laughed*

Wakeboarding gimmicks to me are the sports authority boards people post on craigslist and try and sell for 200 dollars :eek: and the price of "entry" level wakeboard boats lol. Too each their own and everything above is my opinion. Take it for what its worth which could be absolutely nothing but i think maybe about... $.02

The wake industry is really not too "gimmicky" compared to the snowboard industry that has been horrible over the years. A lot of wake tech comes from snow and a it may help filter out before it reaches us. Imo, most of the gimmicks are found in unnecessary boat bling like tower cameras, touch screens and stereo equipment.

All board sports have and always will have a "biolite", "honeycomb", carbonfiber, bla bla bla sales pitch and there will always be a market for it.

I admit that I was the first to say closed toe bindings and the Hyperlite System was a gimmick, but now think they are part of the sport evolving and it looks like there is a long term market for both.

I always found the fact that there are multiple versions of the same board as fitting to appeal to a wide range of consumers. For example lets go with the 2009 Liquid Force Lyman. They had the standard version which was built for anyone you know. Then they had the limited version with the grind base on it for the cable parks and winching and stuff or whatever. Then I believe they made a FLY version too, which had that lighter core making it a better boat board. Anyways I know LF has always made the standard, then ltd or grind models and a couple in the fly series. I dont know if they still do that but it was a cool concept to apply to consumers across the entire wake scene.

....
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...919/735346.jpg

^those are sweet

Without the gimicks, new brands, new technology, or whatever.. the future of wakeboarding will be stale and stagnant forever.

Same reason they make more than one model of car.

Phalanx...new company, need to make some money right out the door? I dont really know.
Hyperlite. New tech trying to hit a niche market. Something pushing the rest of the industry to innovate too. Slingshot has the removable liners with the tread on the bottom, same kind of idea. They're trying to appeal to the cable market with some new tech, and it seems to be working.

One of my Favorites of all time is the Byerly Hook Boards. I mean the Byerly Faceplant board.

Maybe you should of kicked in when people took you out and they may have invited you back!

I would think that with Phalanx being new and not really innovative they would make their prices stand out in a good way so that somebody would buy it over the board next to it in the pro shop. I guess if I rode one and absolutely loved it and rode it better than any other board I would consider it, but it would never be my first choice at that price. I know that my SS Lyman has basically the same price tag at 550 but I think when you consider where the money is going it changes things.

And just so everybody knows I'm not bashing phalanx, when I say they aren't innovative it because they didn't bring anything new to the sport with their product line. When I think of innovative companies I think of slingshot, integrity, cassette....etc. I'm sure the boards are rock solid, and probably ride great, but I don't see any new tech in them. Which usually justifies a high price from a new company.

as far a phalanx, integrity wakeskates sell for $400, while an obscura wood concave sells for $200, it seems absurd at first that it would be double, but the integritys are bomb proof, and they will hold up. also, it might not be new technology, but you for sure can't buy a company board anymore..

I'm always surprised at how many riders at the cable have the Systems, and even on non-Hyperlite boards.

And boom goes the dynamite:

The Wake Wing
http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/m...919/229402.jpg

What about $99 boardshorts??? Who is buying those? Fast drying/4 way stretch???? Not for $75-$100. I will strip under a towel into dry shorts before I drop that kind of money. I bet parks was not wearing that crap when he landed the first 1080. Never heard "I bet I could have landed that invert if my shorts were more stretchy"

I always buy last years gear in the off season. Just picked up a new 2011 watson hybrid for $200, like new hyperlite systems with murray boots for $175 and 3 pairs of 1080 board shorts for around $50.

I prefer to spend my money on boat gas:-)

I remember a website called wakezeech. What a silly gimmick. I hope the author(s) matured since then and moved on to something more positive

Hyperlite is the king of gimmicks!

Thought, I'd jump in since we were mentioned in the post. As far as Our pricing goes, our boards will be available for less thru our dealer base. One of our incentives to have dealers pick us up for distribution even though we are selling direct off our website, is that we will only sell off our website at a higher advertised price compared to their advertised prices. M.S.R.P. vs M.A.P.....So, as dealers come on line in the spring, you'll see our prices compared to our competitors are actually considerably cheaper when compared to similar high end boards using similar materials. When you compare us to mid-level boards we'll be on par or just slightly higher cost. We feel our higher end material choices and high quality standard will set us apart from most companies that mass produce overseas at these price points. Will we sell thousands probably not, It was never our intention too, Our intention was to build quality, which we are. Any owner of a Integrity Skate or a Co Vandal board knows what I'm talking about. Sometimes a few bucks more for something that is built well and lasts through your abuse, is worth every penny extra.

if anyone has questions feel free to e-mail us at info@phalanxwake.com

Ray

List of hyperlite gimmicks: 1, the byerly board w the cutouts that would split open after a few rail hits. (on a positive note that board would keep you away from graving tindy) 2, the HL gate or karma; whichever one had those weird kicktails. (claimed that nollies were possible but I've still never seen one done). 3, the premier with the jib ribs. 4, the over priced sub 6! 5, the system bindings. Now hate on me for including that last one.

Ray, thanks for that post. I probably should have used a better title for this thread, I don't think you guys have gimmicky product by any means. I own an integrity skate and can vouch for the quality. Your stuff is pretty intriguing, any nor Cal demo days this year?

The LF Fish? Apparently short, fat boards were not the end-all.

I'll always support CWB, but I'm not above slamming my own peeps for something ridiculous. I can't believe that no one has called out the heel lock. The hinge was and still is awesome. The heel lock system, mmmmm not so much. I still prefer their stuff though. The boards and boots are amazing, even with the little mystery lever on the back that does absolutely nothing.

LF Fish was one of my favorite boards and I believe the shape was a predecessor to some current LF boards...so I disagree on that one

http://www.wakeworld.com/products/im...37_47_2679.jpg

Its the byerly but worse!

Yup. I've popped into this thread a few times and my biggest nominations would almost all be boat stuff. My experience with TAPS, the wedge and all other forms of deployed foils/pans/plates have been insanely weak. Of all of them though, TAPS is the worst. Not only in its ineffectiveness to do what is claimed - but in the gall of Tige dealers; telling customers and prospects that TAPS works so well, and that Tige boats create such incredible wakes, that ballast is not needed. It's my least favorite bag of bullsh** compound lie in all of wakeboarding.
Nobody is going to like any of mine, including this one but I had to mention it.

Barf bag.

Does trend = gimmick in this thread? Because if so, on second thought I have a bunch...

^^^ I don't think trends are necessarily gimmicks. I do think that offering different cores is a gimmick and stupid sales scheme. If you market yourself as a premium brand, make one premium product. Not three depending on what you can afford.

^Thats like telling Mastercraft to stop making every single boat but a fully loaded X-80, because they're a major wake boat company. There is more money in entry level stuff than top of the line. They still make top of the line gear for people that want it, but they also make plenty of gear with fewer or different options for the weekend warriors. Thats like the exact opposite of a stupid sales scheme.

What I mean is one version of the each model. I'm not against entry level products by good brands.

How about the hyperlite roam or whatever it was called. That Sure didn't really stick around

Logan: But if the ONE board was only available in the Time Bomb, that would be completely useless to me as I ride mostly in wake parks. So in your scenario I'd be missing out on a great shape. Options are good.

Okay. Then...

TAPS
The Wedge
Hydrogate
...and any other plate, or foil, or 20lb cookie sheet attached to a 5000lb boat.

As far as I'm concerned, all of them are gimmicks. Some with better longevity - like the wedge, but that baffles me. If you slam your boat and are used to that, the wedge improves the wake in a nearly imperceptible way and we all know it. It's like having a stereo whose volume goes from 1-10, but you want pinpoint control over levels 2 and 3. Nothing below, nothing above. That's the wedge... and of all of them it's the most useful in my opinion.

Haha, what a strange board. Some of my buddies still rock it at the cable. It's awesome to see! I don't know the whole story behind it, but I'm told that board really pioneered the idea of a snowboard-style rails-only flex board, paving the way for a lot of the cable boards we have today. It might not have been the first flex board, but it sounds like it popularized the idea.

I don't think of it as a gimmick, but rather an early design that was improved upon. Companies realized they could have the rail-friendly characteristics of the Roam without its awkward shape or huge weight. Early 90s cell phones look ridiculous to us now, but it was an important step on the way to smaller and sleeker products.

Am I wrong?

Taps works to change the wake shape not size, and works well at that. Same goes for the wedge and surf tabs. TIGE realized the absurdity of the claim and started adding 2300lbs of ballast to the boat so I guess they figured it out.

Board models arent gimmicks it's a way to get top of the line product to consumers who don't wanna pay tons of money

I want a wake wing...

Have you ever had super stretch QuickDraw board shorts? When you spend every day in a wet bathing suit you don't mind the 65$+ price tag as much

I don't know if I agree with this. The wedge does change the shape of the wake by quite a bit. It gives it more lip, whihc some desire off of malibu's more rampy wakes. I think the more weight you run the less it's needed, but it's definately not a gimmick and does do a good job of giving you more options wake wise.

Taps is basically a trim tab, and it does work. It puts more of the boat in the water leading to a different wake shape and hardness. It's actually helpful when driving in rough conditions also.

They still claim there empty boats put up as much wake as my loaded bu, but my exp is an empty rz4 puts up one of the worst empty wakes on the market. The wake gets much much better with some weight though

The wedge on a Malibu or Axis is no gimmick and the wake is visibly different and feels different. My friends who ride behind my Axis, who also own other brands of boats without a wedge, can tell when the wedge is up or down (some prefer up and some prefer down). An even better example on how the wedge effects the wake is even more evident with the wedge deployed or not deployed when surfing the boat. So to say the wedge is "gimmick" is total BS.

I don't know why anyone is complaining about having options in board cores or anything else really. Sure some things are gimmicks and some of them suck, but it was all somebodys idea they had to try. With out those people trying their crazy ideas boards, style, boats, technology and anything else doesn't progress. Also, until you ride something or try it out you can't hate on it. Unless its some weird water powered jet pack thing, then hate all you want because that thing is stupid.

Agreed. Because the roam was always marketed as this new fun board that you could flex the crap out if and get a snowboard feel on rails. And from what I saw, it did it really well.

How is the Wedge a gimmick? You're out of your mind. It sinks the transom like nothing else with the touch of a button, and now it's adjustable while you drive. It's awesome, and it always has been.

The Hyperlite Roam was the beginning of the Flex boards. It may have not been perfect out of the gate, but props to Hyperlite for taking wake in a new, fresh direction, which eventually led companies like Slingshot.

didn't slingshot bring their tech over from kiteboarding?

i don't see how the wedge could be called a gimmick at all, the nautique hyrdo gate on the other hand...

Perhaps. Probably a bad example. Nevertheless, the Roam was the beginning of flex in wake.

agreed.

It's funny because when slingshot first came out I remember seeing their add in alliance and I thought they would be a one or two board company and then we'd never see them again. Now I've got two of their boards and a set of D3 boots and looking to pick up some of the new RAD's soon. Makes you wonder how many things we are talking about in this thread will be the norm in the coming years.

Perhaps one of the biggest gimmicks in wake is"you need a big wake to learn tricks".Look at old Byerly,Bonify and Shapiro tapes and the tricks they did with small wakes.

So just to recap, none of the original three gimmicks are actually gimmicks?

i still think three cores is ridiculous and gimmicky, i stand corrected on the systems and I still think phalanx is overpriced considering they have a park board listed at 700 dollars.

it is really just a matter of opinion I think.

I am all for progression in technology and launching something new, but the shape with three cores is stupid, considering you pay more money for the atr and time bomb. If they are optimized for different types of riding then why should one cost more than the other?

this is how it looks to me, Buy our good shape but not so good core for $440, buy our same good shape and decent core for $480 or you can buy our good shape and the core we should have been selling in the first place for $530.

should check out the pics Phalanx has of their boards' innards tech/construction. might change your mind about them.
It is nice to know that the prices will be lower in stores for phalanx. phalanx is not the only brand that has high prices when buying direct.
thanks ray cruz for the explaination.

Hydroslide was the first to make a parabolic wakeboard in the similitude of a snowboard shape (without flex). hyperlite was first to make it flexy. slingshot was first to really run with the whole flex thing and sandwich construction and take it seriously and make it more than just a board to hit rails and mess around on the water. It took hyperlite and the guys at ronix (the original guys behind the roam) another 4 years or so to take it seriously too. Phalanx has revived the ol' roam shape and has some guts calling it "C.R.A.P.P."
BUT then again, maybe some might argue that Core wakeboards was the first to go flex and take machined cores seriously.

****one gimmick that even the creators agreed did not work was the recoil pull-string on the CWB zeus back in 2008 or 2007. Not only did it not work well, but the knot that anchored it was tied by a 1st grader and would come undone first use if you did not know about it and retied it

That isn't a gimmick. That's a misconception. And I hate it.

http://img.tapatalk.com/63b1bcb6-2453-81bc.jpg

Here is a gimmick that I fell for. LF Deep Suction bindings...they were so uncomfortable, hard to get into and the strap really didn't do anything but look cool and break.

BUT, one thing about the CWB zeus that i mentioned above. It was also CWB's last effort fighting closed toe trend. they made the toe piece extra long on it.... which now LF is apparently doing with the B.O.B. boot this year... but with an added velcro strap to crank down on it. i'm already wondering if what is left of the open toed boots will follow this. only time will tell.

Its funny to me but everything listed seems more on par with progression not gimmick. Now the Shadowbox for example...... WTF?

I hope their prices drop dramatically for their sake. I know their mission isn't to sell a million boards, however right now this is a very competitive market and I would hate to see them get passed on because they are expensive and not well known. I'm sure we can agree that a very large portion of consumers are not on wake world checking out the newest brands and tech. So for their sake I hope they adopt the die hard company following, I know they will be popular on the west coast, I would like to ride one and see how it compares to my Recoil and Lyman boards from Slingshot.

I really hope Phalanx can keep their head above water for their sake, and Integrity's.

I didn't include the roam with all hyperlites gimmicks because it wasn't one. I'm mainly a rail rider/wincher and as far as I'm concerned the roam series is the best thing hyperlite ever gave the industry. Riding a finless flexboard for the first time back in 05 made me rethink my riding and the way I've approached the sport ever since. What was the name of the wakeskate I was talking about? Gate or karma?

I am with you I would say that the roam board started the flex revolution in the sport.



YOU guys remember the Foam Wakeskate that LF made? It was foam so you didnt get hurt!

i believe it was originally the gate and the name changed to the karma