OK, I can raley pretty well... and my toeside edge is good. I can do scarecrows and TS 540's... I think i want to learn how to do a batwing..but i dont know how to go about trying it.. Its super easy on the trampoline... How is it different off the boat?!

I've been trying these lately. It's mostly about commitment. you're going to take some falls catching your heel edge, or your nose, or falling flat on your back. <BR> <BR>Some tips: <BR> <BR>Start wide <BR>Get low, make sure your front knee is bent <BR>You have to use a progressive edge <BR>Medium intensity cut, until you get to the bottom of the trough, then load the line by turning your shoulders away <BR>another tip is to watch the board go up the wake <BR>if you do this correctly when you pop just relax and the board will go out behind you <BR>flex your hams and pull your heels down to your butt and that will get the board to go back under you. <BR> <BR>There is more to it, but that's all I know this far. I'll let you know as I figure more out.

I landed it on my first try and still can't do raley. I tried to do my ts indy a little bit bigger and a little o\a. Then did it again little bit more like a batwing. After 5-6 times, it really was a batwing and didn't take any bad fall. I could do cabwing (sw hs o/a 180 indy) before but as I told before, no hs raley because it always end up like a flip and the falls hurt so much.

are you trying to look over your lead shoulder at the back of the boat or tower when you lay it out? <BR> <BR>I would like to know more about this, because I tried this a while back and it just threw me into a HUGE laid out TS backroll.

Curt - Thane's tips are really good, here's some more that might help: <BR> <BR>Keep your weight over your front foot as you take off <BR>Bring your knees up and grab your board before it gets away from you <BR>Keep the handle tight to your body, if you let the handle out you'll land on your heels or your back <BR>Look up at the shore line when you land to get to your toes <BR> <BR>Hope this helps and good luck!

what ever feels good.. straight legged bent leggs<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3184/437007.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3184/437008.jpg" alt="Upload">

I tried one over the weekend, it felt like getting out there was the easy part, i had the cut, definately got all that thane said (minus grab), just didnt try and pull it in.. sprained my ankle.. <BR> <BR>I think on my next attempt as soon as it feels like its out there i'll try and pull it back in.

This is what most of mine look like, but some times I will let it float behind me to where my toes are facing up but that will make it harder to bring back down <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3184/439762.jpg" alt="Upload">

do you initiate these similar to throwing a ts backroll? just not throwing your head and shoulders back as you would for a roll? or does the line need to be loaded alot more, similar to a hs raley?

When i throw mine, I push the handle somewhat out in front of me off the wake, and this allows my lower body to drift back. Reach for the grab off the wake, and then pull it back down when you feel yourself comming down. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3184/447116.jpg" alt="Upload">

i got it!!! i landed a few of them and then went out the next day and the first one i did, I pulled my chest muscle and now I have a man boob. definitely gotta stretch a little more next time!

Man boob! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> Way to go stickin' the trick, I'm impressed. <BR> <BR>You guys that decide you want a new trick and then land it the next time out make me ill (or wish that I was still 19 <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>)