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-   -   Wake Experiment #4 (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=335942)

bigshow 06-14-2006 8:21 PM

I’ve posted several wake enhancement experiments in the recent past, one filling spray pockets, one filling hull extensions and along with the hull extension filler tower mounted ballast. <BR> <BR>Here are a few pictures on a new experiment "Surf Switch" – the details of the fundamental experiment I’ll hold on to, I think it has merit. It’s getting late, I’ll post more detail in a few days. <BR> <BR>Riding picture without the Surf Switch - June 1 <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335943.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>Riding picture with the surf switch June 14 <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335944.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR> <BR>Configuration 6: <BR>The boat set up is as follows: <BR>An 04 Centurion Lightning <BR>Surf Switch Set to regular position #2 <BR>Port locker 750 lb fat sack <BR>Center Tank 230 lbs <BR>Bow pop bags 180 lbs - Centered <BR>Tower ballast 40 lb each side <BR>Crew of three <BR>Driver Starboard <BR>Crew Port side <BR> <BR>The following pictures are from Speeds 8 mph to 14 mph <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335945.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335946.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335947.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335948.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335949.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335950.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335951.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR> <BR>Configuration 8: <BR>The boat set up is as follows: <BR>An 04 Centurion Lightning <BR>Surf Switch Set to regular position #2 <BR>Port locker 750 lb fat sack <BR>Center Tank 230 lbs <BR>Bow pop bags 180 lbs – Port side <BR>Tower ballast 80 lb port side <BR>Crew of three <BR>Driver Starboard <BR>Crew Port side <BR> <BR>The following pictures are from Speeds 8 mph to 13 mph <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335952.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335953.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335954.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335955.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335956.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335957.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR>

shortman 06-14-2006 8:37 PM

Starboard side trim tab??

lionel 06-14-2006 8:48 PM

Ed, you gotta patent and trademark the surf switch!!! I would like to know what the heck it is?????

bigshow 06-14-2006 8:52 PM

Surf Switch position #2 - Goofy <BR> <BR>Basically opposite ballast configuration as above. <BR> <BR>9 mph <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335983.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR>10 mph <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/335984.jpg" alt="Upload">

06-15-2006 5:46 AM

Ed, I can't quite tell from the pictures, but it appears that your surf switch allows you to push the boat speed up considerably without affecting the height of the wake. There is an obvious difference in cleaning up the face of the wake, and the pocket length appears significantly longer (which we would expect with an increase in speed) yet I don't see an appreciable loss of height...which is NORMALLY the case with an increase in speed. Is that what you found?

bigshow 06-15-2006 6:43 AM

Jeff, <BR> <BR>This was the first time out with the proof of concept Surf Switch. You can easily see by reviewing posts on this forum that finding or “dialing in” a good surf wake can be a challenge. I’ve put some effort in to building a better wake this year. I think this technique has some potential, but it needs some work and more verification. <BR> <BR>This was clearly the best looking wake that I’ve ever seen behind my boat. I think the Surf Switch would let me put more ballast in a boat and it helps to build a longer wake. However I think I’m boat limited, the freeboard on my boat isn’t that high and I don’t feel comfortable putting in more weight than I have now. By many reports the Enzo and Avy are some of the best wake surfing boats in the business, my Lightning also a Centurion is a converted ski boat to wake boat and probably not the best platform to work with. <BR> <BR>I’m going to get another trail in, but I’m not sure when. There are a few more variables that should be changed and evaluated, which is pretty much what you do when you’re dialing in with just ballast. <BR> <BR>Pictures are helpful but they don’t tell everything. I think you may notice a pretty vertical rooster tail at some speeds. The rooster tail introduces two problems, 1) it comes back down on the wake and disturbs it and 2) it can get in your face while you’re riding. You’ve made similar comments about getting water in your face from the Switch Blade. I’m not sure what’s causing the rooster tail, for now I’m blaming the hull extension – pure speculation. The Surf Switch definitely extends the pocket, but in some pictures the rooster tail obscures the view from my fixed observation point – the ski pole. <BR> <BR>The wake seems to get a nice shape around 9 to 10 mph, then the rooter tail kicks up around 11 mph and generally screws it up, and then it lays back down at 12 or 13 mph. <BR> <BR>The face of my wake without the Surf Switch is almost OK to OK. With the Surf Switch it’s much cleaner. You can still see the hull extension middle wake feature in the goofy pictures. I’d say that I agree that the wake height does not drop of too much at higher speeds. I’d like a more objective way to make the measurement, but that a whole different project.

06-15-2006 8:32 AM

We've always measured with a fabric roll-up tape - stick a brave soul out there with a rope and tape measure <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> And now to the $64,000 question - what is the basic principal of operation? Trim tabs? Dual mini-blades? It's adjustable as you note here, and in another post you talked about getting pieces back from a metal shop - so...seems to be more than a trim tab. C'mon gives us a hint! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

bigshow 06-15-2006 8:42 AM

It's not duct tape<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

bigshow 06-15-2006 9:15 AM

I can make a heck of a water plume with the right (or wrong) configuration. That's about 5 feet high. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/559019/336073.jpg" alt="Upload">

06-15-2006 8:55 PM

LOL it's a jet boat w/o duct tape! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

bigshow 06-16-2006 5:09 AM

I don't know if you ever seen the Red Green show or not, but on one episode he made a jet boat out of plastic drain hose, a high pressure washer, and duct tape, Oh and he used a hockey stick as a control lever to change the direction of thrust.

06-16-2006 7:55 AM

So Ed, you're TRYING to make a jet boat? <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>My understanding of how the wakezup aka switchblade works is that some of it's functionality was redirection of the prop wash...I can't find ANYTHING on their website or in any review to substantiate that statement. So I hope I'm not just pulling that out of my butt. However, when we've ridden behind a switchblade equipped Enzo that doesn't have the full compliment of ballast you get a very thin lip with a large wake, not unlike the plume you are referring to, so I'm guessing...your surf switch is doing something similar, it's redirecting the prop wash to affect wake height. Am I getting warmer or colder?

bigshow 06-16-2006 9:21 AM

No not trying to make a jet boat, though I'm not sure why I get this plume. <BR> <BR>I have also read somewhere that the Switch Blade is redirecting prop wash. My approach is fundamentally different from the Switch Blade. Perhaps redirection of prop wash is a byproduct, but I don’t have an explanation of why my approach would have that effect. <BR> <BR>Last night I was surfing with my regular set up – no surf switch. Toward the end of my set I was having trouble keeping up with the wake. The reason for the trouble is that I was losing water back to the lake from my port fat sack, it was less than half full when I gave up. I need to install a check valve at the fill port to prevent further problems. So now I have to make the assumption that I was losing ballast during my surf switch tests. With full port-aft ballast the surf switch enhanced, surf wake should be better than what in the pictures that I’ve posted.<IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

06-16-2006 9:37 AM

Shoot you are not being helpful at all. All I can glean so far is it doesn't involve duct tape or a Switchblade like mechanism. If you find a good swing check valve would you post details please. I need one for my overflow line, right now I'm using a ball valve that I open and close manually because I couldn't find a decent swing check value that would open at a low enough pressure AND fit the 1" ID tubing I have in my system.

bigshow 06-16-2006 9:54 AM

Right, not sure if I'm going to use a check valve or ball valve. Check valves add pressure drop and slow filling but take no thought or action once installed. On the other hand I know I can get a ball valve at Lowe’s. <BR> <BR>The orientation of the check valve can have a dramatic effect on a ball or flapper type valve. On a work project we replaced the regular ball with a ping pong ball, worked well enough and reduced the cracking pressure. <BR> <BR>I think I might need to take Bryon’s advice, heck I probably shouldn’t have posted these pictures. However patent cost can be pretty high, I think just a patent search can cost as much as $20,000. Actual patent submission probably over $3,000, plus lawyer fees? I’ve reviewed patent but never prepared one.

06-16-2006 10:29 AM

I've heard simply patten searches can be done for under a grand. The application process is tedious but not hard...I think the key is use language that gives you broad protection, yet is descriptive enough. You know who you should contact is Larry Mann, he's done them before and can probably give you an idea on the cost and time involved. Does that earn me another hint on how the thing works? <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

bigshow 06-16-2006 10:50 AM

If I get reasonable protection in place before the Scioto Wakefest maybe you can surf on a Surf Switch wake. <BR> <BR>I'll have to shoot Larry an email. <BR> <BR>I've got to retool my press release and flyer and then issue - tick tock!

caskimmer 06-16-2006 1:53 PM

Get that going! Our goofy wake sure could use some help from the Wake Doctor. <b>Please doc please, </b>I need some of the good stuff

06-16-2006 2:02 PM

Yeah, I'm with Sean, I'd like to see some aftermarket product(s) that allow a decent surf wake without 2K lbs of ballast, even better if you could flip a switch and change the side being surfed on - OH NO! Did I seem to indicate that the starboard side should even be considered?! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0>

hawaj 06-16-2006 7:45 PM

WOW

06-16-2006 9:08 PM

Hawaj! How have you been?! We haven't heard from you in a long time. How are things in the Czech Republic?

bcanuck 06-17-2006 10:49 AM

Nice going Bigshow, <BR>Those are some of the best wake pics you have posted.


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