Here's a question for anyone who has taken a lesson: <BR> <BR>Was your instructor a power turner? <BR> <BR>We were riding in the delta yesterday in the little channel off to the side of Vic's. The learn2wakeboard guy (I think it's the guy that runs lessons out of River's End) was out there with a big group and this guy was straight up ruining the water. We usually ride in this area when Vic's is blown out or crowded. We were the only two boats in the area and he was making quintuple ups in the water to retrieve his riders. The only thing I can think of is that he was doing this to quickly get back to his newbie who might freak out about taking so long to get back to the rider. Anyway, we were kind of pissed. He seemed like a really nice guy who waved and said hi every time we passed by. <BR> <BR>By the way, you can learn to drive like a pro like him on their website. I thought this was funny to read after dealing with all the powerturning: <BR> <BR><a href="http://learn2wakeboard.com/lessons/drive.php" target="_blank">http://learn2wakeboard.com/lessons/drive.php</a> <BR> <BR>Sign me up for the $180 course so I can drive like him.

You should have schooled him and asked him not to power turn. Even if it was a newbie, it only takes on average 5-10 seconds more to get back to your rider with out power turning.

Arun was first class, never power turned once. Even though i knew he wanted to .. JK hehehe

We all know Arun's a closet power turner!

That would not be one of our instructors. First, all of our instructors have at least 2500 hours on the water and at least 1000 hours riding on the Delta. Our boats are true wakeboard boats that are 23ft and larger, and riding in the Delta demands that power turns are not part of our instruction.(Drive Like A Pro Lessons). <BR> <BR>Our instructors are also committed to ending the Power Turns or (The Cowboy) as we call it and have instructed many new boat owners on proper and safe boating on the water ways of the Delta. <BR> <BR>They are also instucted to Render Help to stranded boater on the Delta. Which we do quite frequently. Maybe this should be the true Discussion Topic <BR> <BR>My suggestion would be to get the Vessal numbers from the boat to make an accurate statment. <BR> <BR> <BR>Ric Morgan <BR><a href="http://www.learn2wakeboard.com" target="_blank">www.learn2wakeboard.com</a> <BR>866.999.9253

Quote: it only takes on average 5-10 seconds more to get back to your rider with out power turning. <BR> <BR>And usually I appreciate those extra seconds in the water to recover from the fall. So everyone's a winner if they don't powerturn!

"Our boats are true wakeboard boats that are 23ft and larger" REALLY??

Ric, <BR> <BR>I think my statement is VERY accurate. This is the pic of the guy (and it looks a lot like you) that was driving and it is on your website under the instructor photos. I suppose you'll tell me that this was photoshopped or not from your website. Busted ya! This was defnitely the guy (and it looks like you) that was ruining the water with no other boats around. I'm sure he's a very nice guy, but I certainly won't be forking over a $180 to learn to drive from him. <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/354989.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by raketball on August 08, 2006)

Look at the instructors page: <BR> <BR>I think that might be Ric himself! That is too funny <a href="http://www.learn2wakeboard.com/about/instructors.php" target="_blank">http://www.learn2wakeboard.com/about/instructors.php</a>

Give the guy a break . . . it takes a lot of patience to teach newbies to ride. Perhaps powerturning is venting some of the frustration.

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/355009.jpg" alt="Upload">

I was offended by that last post. My brother is retarded.

No worries, so is Adam.

Oh no he deeeintt!!! <BR> <BR>IN YO FACE!!!

Seriously, that post is pretty bad Adam. I am not personally offended, but I have a TON of respect for any challenged person; especially a competitor. Most of the people I have met with illnesses have WAY MORE drive than the general population.

How about getting back to the subject. Ric were you power turning?

HAHAHA<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by allen on August 08, 2006)

Just trying to point out the fact that arguing on the internet is pretty ridiculous. And yes it is offensive to some hence the anti pollitically correct. Sorry for the hi-jack. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by acurtis_ttu on August 08, 2006)

what is the point of this thread?

Ha, ha, ha.... We try to watch what we do these days. Nothing like running around with a bunch of stickers on your boat to kill the stealth operations. <BR> <BR>Nice Tim. This thread cracked me up. I wonder if I could instruct as I only have 2460 hours on the water, although 1242 of them are on the Delta. I also like the "true" wakeboard boats comment as everyone knows that a not-true wakeboard boat does much better power turns. <BR> <BR>Sorry Ric, I couldn't resist. Hopefully you prove it wasn't you or at the least you clean up your instructors acts. <BR> <BR>By the way I now fully expect to be called out on a public forum the next time someone on the delta sees me do something stupid. LOL

Perfect.... WTG Evan WTG.

Ricky Bobby says that if you are a Truly Great driver you can drive blind folded (or something like that) so.... maybe.... Ric had his blind fold on for the "Drive like a Pro" lesson. Maybe he didn't realize he was power turning in the DELTA.

Tim, you sure the guy you saw didn't look like this.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/355079.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR>Ric, no hard feelings I hope I'm just jokin around. no one is perfect..

LOL!! thats hilarious<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

I was just kidding, I don't even have a brother! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>

Nice Al!!

I wish I had a true wakeboarding boat.

Adam's post has been on here a ton of times by different peeps with no comment from anyone else for posting it. It is in bad taste, but if you dog one for posting it, dog them all.

I have to come in defensive of all the instructors at learn2wakeboard. I have taken many a lesson from them and so have alot of my friends. At no time has Ric or any instructor ever Cowboy a turn. There approach is returning slowly to allow time for the rider to recover. <BR> <BR>I was at the Cooney Island Slough on Sunday, that is the slough your talking about, and there were at least 6 boats in that small slough. Until the end when they were 3. 1 19ft Ski Nat, 22 ft Avalance Centurion and 1 23 Black Malibu. The Malibu, he was totally rude and that driver was in need of a driving lesson. Why? In the small part of the slough where it bends and narrows, that driver came within 8 ft of our rider when they were down and they power turned their rider before this bend everytime. Then they made this huge mistake of power turning in front of our boat with there rope still in tow. Not Good. I think thats the boat your talking about. <BR> <BR>Tim what kinda boat do you have? I know learn2wakeboard does not use Malibu as there boats. <BR> <BR>So thats what we saw all day in the Cooney Island Slough on Sunday.

plot thickens........

More pics, more pics, lol.

ok, i've come by some additional information. turns out it wasn't Rick driving after all. it was a sturgeon. for those who don't know, sturgeons are quite athletic and love to jump into boats. just see this thread: <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/4387/355164.html?1155086119" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/4387/355164.html?1155086119</a> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>it could have looked something like this: <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/355174.jpg" alt="Upload">

hahah I sense a nomination for thread of the year

I think Tim is to blame on the day in question. Isn't this Your dog Tim ? <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/355185.jpg" alt="Upload">

you guys have way to much time on your hands. <BR> <BR>Ric is probably pulling his hair out.

very nice, walt. that is the funniest thing i have seen in a long time. <BR> <BR>mandy, perhaps we are both talking about different sloughs as i can assure you that from around 8:30-12 on sunday we were the only two boats (besides an occasional fisherman passing by) in the area. i am talking about his black and white sanger (4 board racks, loud stereo, and loaded with sturgeon, t-dawg, and newbies). <BR> <BR>furthermore, t-dawg would be a much better driver than the sturgeon or ric.

Wow...it, allegedly, sucks to Ric about now. <BR> <BR>It sure is funny though. <BR> <BR>Sorry Allegedly Ric. <BR> <BR>By the way Mandy, my boat is 19'6". Those 6" are important!

If it was You Ric no worries ! We all screw up some times. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

Tim <BR> <BR>We are talking about the same slough, next to Golden Gate Ski Clubs Island. And we were there all day, From 9am to 7 pm. We were with another boat from our group which is a white and red sanger. And we even have pictures.. The Cooney Island slough was the only one that wasnt blown out that day. <BR> <BR>Last time I looked, that area around Victoria down to Rivers End Marina was Sanger Country. I'm sure they made several of the Black and White Sanger Boats. Whatta Think? and Loud Stereo, thats every boat on the delta. We have 4 Board Racks on our boat we did get the idea from Ric. <BR> <BR>You Still didnt answer what Kind of Boat you have? My other friends reminded me of another Jerk in the morning that day. <BR> <BR>Sound to me like you have a thing for Ric. Now thats Funny.. LOL <BR> <BR>I gotta post this to all <BR> <BR>Ric what you think about this? I'll email him

and the point of this thread???????

I couldn't tell You Richard but I'm loving everyone's photo shop work.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0>

I've seen T-Dawg drive and I assure you that he doesn't power turn. <BR> <BR>BTW, I thought the L2W guys used Centurions.

Up, just looked at Ric's profile. Guess they use Sangers too. <BR> <BR>It's okay, I powerturned once last weekend so I could set up some big a$$ rollers to "cool off" the girl sitting in the nose of my boat. LOL

Still haven't heard from Ric. I'm curious to see if he will deniy it again or come clean. Gotta go get more popcorn for this one. <BR> <BR>waiting............................

ok so let me get this straight... Tim saw a Black &amp; White Sanger doing power turns and ruining the water in a slough near Vics. <BR> <BR>Tim- is the pic you posted one you took of the driver that day or one you pulled from the L2W website (the boat in that pic doesn't look like a Sanger V230, although it could be a V210)? Also, why do you think that the boat you saw belonged to the L2W people? <BR> <BR>Ric - true wakeboard boats are 23ft and larger???? I think a lot of people would beg to differ with you...

mandy, <BR>let me set the record straight.......you're smoking crack. we have a black and white centurion and sunday from around 8:30-12 we were the only boats (as I said 100 times now) in the area. renee, the guy in the pic IS the person that was driving the black and white sanger (unless the person driving was wearing a mask of the guy in the pic) and launched out or rivers end that morning. furthermore, i do not even know ric so i have no reason to lie or make this sheeeyat up. ok......you busted me.......i made the whole thing up so I could get a pic of t-dawg driving a boat on the internet. <BR> <BR>ps - the boats you mentioned (sport nat, avalanche, and malibu) were not around when we were there. <BR> <BR>sounds to me like maybe you have something for ric with all the defending you're doing......what????????

I think it's Funny. Although cutting up some other photographers work, is not something I would do. But thats me. <BR> <BR>Thanks Mandy and other who have email me on this topic. Last weekend was my daughter 1st Birthday, so I'm a liitle preoccupied with a toddler who main job is to pull down all our files on the desk. This is the reason for the late response. <BR> <BR>Tim, If you have a problem with me, come talk to me. You know where all of our boat are at. You've seen us on the Delta Before and we have toll free numbers. To slam a whole company of other riders and instructors on the internet is not that cool. Especially since you've never been a customer or even know what were all about. Thats just my view. I could be wrong. If your response is, "I'll never be a customer." Email me and I'll set up an account on Friendster or MySpace and we can at least keep this conversation on the same playground. Let's keep from turning Wakeworld into a Friendster or MySpace it's kinda defeating what this site is all about. <BR> <BR>Subject Change: <BR> <BR>We use both Boats: Centurions and Sangers for this Year. Next year is still undecided. Dont take me wrong we love our Sangers. It's to bad that Centurion quit making the Concourse or Typhoon. That is a great family boat. <BR> <BR> <BR>I'm with Richard "Whats the Point" <BR> <BR>You still havent answered Mandy's question. What boat do you drive? Or better yet lets end this thread. <BR> <BR>I appreciate all the people who have clicked on to our site and have signed up during this whole thread building love fest. Thanks Tim for the time for Giving us an Advertisers dream/Moto. <BR>"What the worst Kinda of Publicity? No Publicity at All. <BR> <BR>Here's my phone number again. <BR> <BR> <BR>Thanks everyone for the few laughs and will see you on the Delta "Cowboy'n it for Kicks" Just to get on Wakeworld. LOL <BR> <BR>Last but not least. If your broken down in an area we are in. Count on us to Render Aid. <BR> <BR>Ric <BR> <BR>866.999.9253 <BR>415.725.0999

Renee <BR> <BR>Heres the true quote, Sorry if I misquoted. <BR> <BR>Wakeboarding Magazine has classified boat as: "Dream Machine" <BR> <BR>Ideal wakeboard boats are V-Drive, open bow and heavy. They are usually 21 feet or longer and have the ultimate wake characteristics. The same rules apply to a narrow hull, if flat in the back the wake will be steep; a wide hull which has some V, it will be a mellow transition. <BR> <BR>About the wake <BR> <BR>As the wake gets more mellow, you create the pop more by using your edge. Smaller mellow wakes force riders into having a very faster, edgy style, since there isn't much energy in a small wake to boot you up real high. Creating the pop is like doing tricks on the cable. You create the pop, the wake does not. Bigger mellow wakes allow a rider to create a lot of speed and edge all the way through the wake, taking moves high and way out into the flats. Mellow wakes are geared towards edgy flips and inverts due to high line tension. <BR> <BR>* This section was taken from (2004 Feb <a href="http://www.wakeboardingmag.com" target="_blank">www.wakeboardingmag.com</a>) the picture are great to <BR> <BR>ric

Getting better by the post!

I dont know Ric and have never been a customer of his, but judging how he handled himself on this thread, he seems to be a pretty legit and good guy. I was pretty impressed that he just didnt go on arguing and bashing the person that started this all, and everyone who jumped on to create some good laughs. I give Ric 2 thumbs up for handling this thread with class!

Ric, <BR> <BR>Not slamming your company at all. Just stating a fact that you were ruining the water with nobody around. I'll be the first to say that you are probably an excellent instructor and could probably teach me many things about wakeboarding. Just don't ruin great water there's nobody else around but one boat. There was certainly no danger of other boats that morning which would require you to get back to your rider so quickly. I also stated that maybe you were turning like that to get back to the newbie in the water quickly. Perhaps that was the case. <BR> <BR>PS - I never said I wouldn't be a customer. I'm sure you are a much better wakeboarder than I am and could teach me a lot. I was simply stating that after Sunday I have no intention of taking a driving course from you.

Tim- you still haven't answered the questions: <BR> <BR>* Is the pic you posted one you took of the driver of the offending boat that day? <BR>* How do you know it was a L2W boat? Was it marked or are you just assuming based on the boat type? <BR>* What type of boat do you have?

So....because Ric is an instructor, or a "high profile" wake person, that means he can never do a power turn? True...power turns aren't cool, but isn't that his boat? This could fall to the "I hate tubers" section too....hate 'em or not, they have the right to do what they want with their boats on a public waterway. <BR>But Ric is an instructor, and should be setting a good example??? Is that the case? <BR> <BR>I voted for Bill Clinton, and I know a preacher who drinks.....but overall I think they both do a good job with their respective trades. <BR> <BR>I don't power turn, and none of my crew does them when they drive either....but I bet you $675 a month, that if I want to do one.....I will.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

Renee: I think he answered all but one. The pic is one he lifted from the site. He saw Ric launch the boat and recognized him from the site. He also stated that he has a black/white Centurion. The last question that he didn't answer about how he knew it was a L2W wakeboat would most likely be summed up by the fact that they have stickers all over their boats. <BR> <BR>I'm not siding, but I know Timmay is a stand-up guy and wouldn't bash for the hell of it. I also know he did his fair share of power turning before he "saw the light". I'm pretty sure he's just calling someone out to help them understand his frustration. I know I'm ready to kill when someone is power turning in perfectly flat water. Absolutely drives me crazy and if I saw it was someone that's supposed to be teaching correct driving methods I'd call them out, too. <BR> <BR>I agree with Isaac to a point. Ric is doing a good job of not arguing, he hasn't however directly admitted or denied that it was him or his boat. I have a feeling he wont deny it because it was him. <BR> <BR>Oh well, back to work. BTW Tim: T-dawg looks a bit pissed about the reindeer horns. LOL

Renee, <BR> <BR>See above post at 9:32. How do I know it as a L2W boat? Here is the website for Rivers End: <BR>(<a href="http://www.riversendmarina.com/" target="_blank">http://www.riversendmarina.com/</a>) and it lists L2W as its vendor and the guy on the instructor page photo is the one who was driving the boat. Hope that answers your questions. <BR> <BR>Fox, you are right....it is his boat and maybe it should fall into the "I hate tubers" category. I think there are many people on here who would be ticked if someone was ruining good water for no reason. <BR> <BR>Evan, thanks for saying I'm a stand up guy. I appreciate it. Not too many people on may know me, but I am just a nice guy stating some facts. I don't really need anyone to defend me in this case as I know I am right. <BR> <BR>Ric, I said you were a nice guy. Glad to help with the publicity. I'm sure you're site hits have doubled in the last few days. Happy to help you out. <BR> <BR>By the way, T-Dawg will be giving lessons to anyone who wants them. He charges 20 biscuits per hour or a steak for the whole day. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by raketball on August 09, 2006)

BTW, for those that think Tim is attacking him should re-read the original post. Tim even said he seems like a nice guy, but he was ruining the water.....

OK OK OK....all points proven! Everybody is a nice guy! <BR> <BR>Maybe David will give a free Wakeworld sticker to everyone who's posted and will sign off on this thread!!!<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>This is FoxrepDC....siging off.....you stay classy San Diego! And thanks for stopping by.

Damn, I want my money back. I just found out that my MC 05' X-2 is not a "True Wakeboard" boat. I'm calling my lawyer.....

This thread is awesome

I'm with FoxrepDC <BR> <BR>Next Thread. Mandy Signing Off..It's his boat, He pays the Bills- Quit. Why didnt you do a double up? <BR> <BR>Plus- "Power Turn Drivers Unite" LOL. <BR> <BR>Mandy I'm outta here "Tricks are for Kids"

Jarrod, <BR>I'll bet your pooch can't drive like T-Dawg. Yours would be too busy jumping in the water.

Wait, I'm outta popcorn........................ <BR> <BR>OK, I'm back. What'd I miss? Did Ric confirm/deny that he was/was not the culprit? <BR> <BR>Oooooops forgot butter....................... <BR> <BR>Ok, back again. Proceed.

This is an interesting discussion and as much as I support "no power turns" I have to wonder if that should be considered a huge issue on "squirrel slough" as we've always called that section of the river. <BR> <BR>When you get to the Victoria end of that slough you are looking directly at Golden Isle at my cabin (it's on the corner of the cut next to the playground), so unfortunately I've probably logged more hours there then anyone in existance since we built it in 1983. I can remember times when that was the only glassy water in the whole area for days on end in the spring. <BR> <BR>As that place can get absolutely crazy when there is more then 1 boat riding it I was never concerned as much with keeping the water good as not having my rider getting turned into fish bait. <BR> <BR>So I wouldn't call anyone out for powerturning there or on Indian slough for that matter, that's just what you'll see out of necessity most of the time when you go out at either of those locations.

"I don't power turn, and none of my crew does them when they drive either....but I bet you $675 a month, that if I want to do one.....I will." <BR> <BR>HAHA.

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<i mg src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0>

What's a power turn? <BR> <BR> <BR>LOL....sorry, had to do it!

Im with Rich. <BR> <BR>If there was more then one boat out there and my rider fell just outside a turn I'd burn someones section with a few rollers for safty. Just as there are drivers who PT there are drivers who dont look where they are going. <BR> <BR>Mandy are you ignoring me? What if my boat was 19' 10"? <BR> <BR>Woops I forgot its not a wake boat.

I think this is a power turn.... <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>http://<a href="http://video.google....rn+out</a>

this thread is silly <BR>you should NEVER powerturn without sunglasses on

It's always better to sac up and take a lump, admit to a turn and move forward. The "no PR is bad PR" and thanks BS is pathetic. Only thing weaker than the powerturn, is the attitude since. <BR>Always wear your PFD's when turning with power. It's really about safety.

BTW...Evan...I think I saw you do a power turn when pulling "whoeveritwas" at the storage yard puddle a couple of winters ago....you should be ashamed of yourself...

ha, ha... apparently someone didn't like my last post. Oh well, I don't even remember what I said.

Ok I'm sorta new to all of this.. what is the best way to retreive a rider if they fall? <BR>I think most of the time I power turn (cuz its fun) but if that is ruining the water I'll stop doing it (unless its the middle of the day and the water is already crap anyways)

Check it: <BR><a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/articles/2003/thatboat.asp" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/articles/2003/thatboat.asp</a>

That's a great article to read. But if you don't have time to read it all, here is the bullet point you are looking for: <BR> <BR>"When you circle around a fallen rider, SLOW DOWN. Don't go making the power turns like you see in the James Bond movies. You send rollers across the whole lake when you make the fast turn around. Instead, bring the boat to a stop, then make a slow turn and return to your rider." <BR> <BR>A couple other points: <BR>* Like was mentioned above, you don't get to the rider any faster if you power turn. <BR>* If there is a boat coming, if you STOP and slowly turn to go back to your rider, you stay in line with your rider, meaning that the other boat would have to be heading for YOU and will turn away before they see the rider. Power turning takes you out of line of your rider so you have to come back to them. <BR>* Finally, not only do power turns cause wake for the rest of the lake, they also cause unnecessary rollers for your downed rider. A downed rider uses the time the boat takes to come back as a rest break and if the are dealing with YOUR OWN rollers, they aren't resting but sucking in water and trying to stay afloat.

<b>If there is a boat coming, if you STOP and slowly turn to go back to your rider, you stay in line with your rider, meaning that the other boat would have to be heading for YOU and will turn away before they see the rider. Power turning takes you out of line of your rider so you have to come back to them.</b> <BR> <BR>I have seen this effect in my head on the delta. If I am baring down, then the power turn makes me think about avoiding the boat not the rider. Turning around tight and slow allows me to see the rider and the boat in the same line causing me to avoid both.

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/355913.jpg" alt="Upload">

Evan - Are you referring to my post? Don't you remember the puddle surfing at Orwood a couple years back?? I was jibbing ya, just reminiscing(sp)a bit!It's Mike, I had the Malibu nextdoor to ya!!! <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0>

yah, Mike... I know. That's not what I was talking about. There was another post that got deleted.

Oh gotcha......I missed it....carry on......