So this is really silly and it shouldn't be that hard of a trick for me, but I can not seem to initiate a frontroll or scarecrow. I tried some several years ago and was close but haven't tried any since. <BR> <BR>So now this year I throw TS r2r's, TS 3's, etc and want to learn the crow. Lately I have tried a few but ended up completely disoriented leaving the wake and think I may have flipped BACKWARDS a couple of times...awesome I know. I come in with a tall position and hard edge, but when I let off my edge in the trough, it's like I rock back on my heels too much riding up the wake and I flip backwards like a TS backroll. <BR> <BR>What should I be looking at in the trough or riding up the wake? Would not coming off edge help this problem or will it cause me to whip it too much out the back. <BR> <BR>I know this sounds like a weird problem and it is! Talk about a confidence killer when you want to try a FORWARD flipping invert and don't know if you will end of flipping forward or backwards. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0>

For me, it doesnt even feel like I go to a heelside edge, just flatten off at the top. That's what works for me, anyway. From the sounds of it, I would try not to change edges so much, it sounds like youre going right onto your heels on the wake.. maybe try to do the trip part later? I would think that would keep you from going back so much, then you should get the feel for it. For me, I get on a hard edge knees bent some, start to flatten off around the spray, dig my edge at the top and push with my legs, tuck my chin in and start the roll, spot the landing, drop my back hand and tug the handle to my front hip (for a straight frontroll, for a crow I drop my front hand and tug it around like a normal 180) and land with knees bent a little, edge away from wake. Thats how it feels to me, it may not be the "correct" way, but its what works for me. I would say learn a frontroll first, then just put a 180 at the end to make it a scarecrow, very easy. If you can do a tantrum, it should feel somewhat similar as far as edging and release, try to think about it the same way, just toeside instead of heelside. Let me know if that helps or if something doesnt make sense

Thanks Patrick. Yeah, I can do tantrums but it has taken me a long, long time to get them consistent. I don't know why but trip flip edge tricks have always played with my head. I'll give it a try and I appreciate your feedback.

Not a problem, be sure to let everyone know how it goes. One more tip, be sure to keep both hands on the handle until 3/4s through, not entirely sure why, but every time I drop my back hand early without going for a grab, it feels sketchy and is never as big. Good luck

when I do a scarecrow, I keep my cut as long as I can, once I feel the pop, I put my head between my arm and turning my head a little but looking over my leading shoulder. <BR> <BR>the most important thing about any TS flip is wait untill the pop before initiate. <BR> <BR><b> said to be sure to keep both hands on the handle until 3/4s through <BR> <BR>this is important too</b>

I'd have to agree that I don't feel like I flatten out much at the top either. I basically cut out as wide as possible then edge in real fast toward the wake. At the top of the wake, I don't so much lose the edge, but stand real tall and square the board off to the wake slightly. It should give you a nice spring and buck you right around. However, I somehow can't seem to take this same approach to a tantrum and it has eluded me for so long.