Disclaimer: Don't want this to turn into a school yard pissing match. But I realize that is not within my control ;) <BR> <BR>Sold my boat some weeks back and in to market for a new to me boat. Use; wakesurf, wakeboard, family floating fun (kids 12,10), 50 hrs a season. <BR> <BR>Considering all boats but two are the same price point. Brand new 2007 Centurion Avalanche C4 or a 2004 CC SAN w/400 hrs in good to above good condition. <BR> <BR>Looking for qualitative and quantitative opinions. <BR> <BR>Thanks in advance. <BR> <BR>T

Avalanche advantages: <BR>-bigger <BR>-more storage <BR>-awesome surf wake <BR>-new <BR>-snapout carpet <BR>-better rough water ride <BR> <BR>Avalanche disadvantages: <BR>-wake may be a little touchy <BR>-not as plush as the nautique <BR>-sometimes they are kind of stripped <BR>-overall fit and finish isn't as good <BR> <BR>Nautique advantages: <BR>-it's a SAN 210 <BR>-resale <BR>-Wakeboard wake is legendary <BR>-better fit and finish <BR>-probably has better options <BR>-better stock stereo <BR>-did I mention the wake <BR> <BR>disadvantages of nautique: <BR>-used with normal but 8 years of your typical hour usage <BR>-small inside <BR>-less storage <BR> <BR>Assuming both boats are equipped the same if I was looking for more of a family boat than a wakeboard machine I would go with the centurion. If I was looking strictly for the best wake for a 4 or so people crew I would say the nautique. <BR> <BR>By what you said you will be using it for I have a hunch the Avy would be the way to go.

Trevor, <BR>I have owned both boats. The Avalance was a 2002 model but I dont think much has changed in hull shape. I could be wrong. I currently have an 04 SAN. <BR>The biggest difference is the size of the boat. The avy will definately ride better in chop and hold more people. I only ride with 4 people at a time so the SAN is perfect for me. <BR>The wakes are totally different as well. The SAN has a more vert wake where the avy is a little more mellow. The avy is also a lot more sensitive to weight. I owned the avy for two years and it seemed like I could never dial the wake in. I tried everything and anything but I always had a washy wake on one side of the boat. The SAN I just fill up the tanks and the wake is perfect. As for the wakesurfing wake I have no opinion because I have never done it. <BR>Another thing to consider is storage of the boat. Where are you going to store it? Do you have enough room? Like I said before the Avy is a big boat where the SAN is not as big. Also do you have a tow vehicle that will pull the avy? I used and 01 tahoe with the avy and the SAN. <BR>The handeling of boats is really no comparison. The SAN will handle much better than the avy. When I owned my Avy I experienced a lot of chine lock when making tight turns. I have yet to experience it yet in my SAN. <BR>I am also biased but I love the PCM engines over the mercruiser. They are based on the same GM block but the PCM just seems to have a smoother feel to it. <BR>Have you had a chance to drive both? I would take them both out for a test drive. See which one fits you the best. I would also ask to take a few pulls behing both wakes. You may not like the wake on the SAN because it is so vert. Then again you may love it. <BR>Good luck in your decision.

Bret and Rod - Great responses, thank you. <BR> <BR>Rod, Pulling with a Suburban and have plenty of side yard storage so I am okay with the size. <BR> <BR>Coming out of a Nautique, albeit a 93 196, I fully appreciate the Nautique fit finish, value, etc. Hard to get away from. But that said I am not a hard core wakeboarder. The Avy does have less amenities; no depth gauge, racks, cover, and the other stuff you might get buying a used boat from a private party but has a new boat warranty. <BR> <BR>Thanks again - keep the opinions coming. <BR> <BR>T

Is there a price difference between them?

For your use you are probably best going with the avy, this is coming from a 210/SAN owner. It's not really a family boat. If wakeboarding were your priority it's not even a contest, but it lacks storage and the wake is not really beginner/family friendly.

I love my avy! It throws an amazing surf and wakeboard wake! It cuts through chop like a tug boat. The fit and finish is much better on later models. They really stepped up their game around 2004-05.

Again, good feedback. Keep it coming. <BR> <BR>Price is the same; 35k <BR> <BR>T

If the missing options are what's keeping you from the Avalanche, a lot of times you can get the dealer to work those in at the same price if it means the difference between making the sale or not. <BR> <BR>I would agree that since you are not a core wakeboarder, the spaciousness of the Avy might be the way to go. Test ride is always a good plan if possible. Or find someone that has one and go out with them. <BR> <BR>Danny

There are a couple really nice Super Airs on WW's classifieds. I think there is an 02 Super Sport with like 135 hours! Dammit I wish I was in the market...

I think the 04 SAN has the opposite prop rotation??? I know they have the same prop rotation as everyone now, but that will be a factor if you want to surf L foot forward, and a minor adjustment in backing. <BR> <BR>I think the C4 hulls are different hulls than the 02s, but again not sure, but they are touchy to weight placement. I have a Cent and mine has been rock solid reliable. I like riding behind a SAN too, but it would be a no brainer to me and I would go with the new Cent. The vinyl, gauges, electronics, and the other little things that wear out before the engine would all be 100% fresh in the new Cent, and I do not care how well it was taken care of, these little things have four years of use on them and will fail before things start breaking down in the Cent. <BR> <BR>That sounds like a killer deal on the Avy BTW.

The Avy is great boat, owned a Centurion for 5 years and still ride behind a buddy's '05 Avy. Stock wake with no ballast is great for kids too. <BR> <BR>Like the other's said, the SAN210 is a rider's boat. While the 210 is tempting, I would go with the Avy also.

I ride from time to time in an Avy and its huge the wake is fine for everyone who rides in it including an outlaw rider. Its going to give you more space and comfort for your family. I have an 2002 xstar(205v) and now really wish I had thought less about wake and more about space and storage. Be realistic about your skills and how far your going to go. If your kids really start kicking it then you can always sell and go more of a wake boat SANTE, XSTAR, VLX. 24ve etc. Or the enzo if you become a Centurion lover. You will be able to sell the SANTE quicker in the future more than likely. Especially if you have a good dealer in the area.

Trevor,Have you considered a Sanger. I heard that Tracy Boat sales was blowing out 09 V215's for that 35k price range.They also have some Centurions as well

I have to say that I agree with most of the feedback so far. As on '07 Avy C4 owner I love my boat, the wake and the surf. Bang for the buck is unbeatable and quality is better than most seem to realize. Advantages and disadvantages to both but warranty on a new boat is valuable and I don't know anyone who is disappointed with Centurion in the long run either. On another note I am selling my '07 to move into a new boat if anyone is interested....hint

To be honest the only thing I dont like about the Avy that I ride in is the side swipe exhaust. Too loud. The feature is a cool feature and I get why but its annoying. Not a deal breaker by any chance. Just would rather pay for an FAE than get side swipe

The avy hull hasn't changed, they did make the top cap dif. The made it a little higher and thus made the interior deeper. Make sure to get a bennett trim tab or have one installed! It really helps with wake adjustments, wave cleaning and getting on plane!

Okay - So I put a 7-day hold deposit on the 2007 Avy. We are going to take it out for a water test this week. Fairly stock; no stereo, depth gauge But does include the upgraded tower with bimini. <BR> <BR>33.8k on the trailer. with tax, fees 38k out the door. <BR> <BR>We'll keep you posted. Color/design not my first choice but at that price I don't really care. <BR> <BR>T <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/694638.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/694639.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/694640.jpg" alt="Upload">

Take the Centurion sticker off and the boat will look way better with just the flames.

+1 ^^^ <BR> <BR> <BR>Nice looking boat and sounds like a great deal.

Good deal, I would push the dealer to give you some racks and a cover. I dont know what you want to do about a stereo but if a stock is enough for you I would suggest that too...I have had my Centurion Elite-V C4 since 2005 and it has been a great boat...no problems to mention. Lots of folks on here seem to place them at the "lower end" as far as ability, finish, and what not. But I disagree, they are super nice boats and you dont have to break the bank to own one. I would agree with a touchy wake at times. But for $200 I bought two fly high sacs and a tsunami pump..problem solved!!! We throw rolls, spins, and surf behind mine all season. A buddy has a 2005 Avy as well and its nice too. I like the added room. Best of luck! Keep us posted. If you need help I have a great dealer by my house and could have him contact you, I know he is looking to make some deals and has some really nice boats in stock.

That's a pretty good deal, i got mine back in 07 for 47K basically the same boat. Yeah, have them throw in some board racks and maybe a tower mirror! I have been very happy with mine so far and haven't had any major issues except for the portside wash which i solved with extra weight on that side. Congrats in advance if you decide to go with that Avy. Let us know how the water test went..

Sanger or SAN will both still be going strong in five and ten years from now, Avy will not. Build quality is everything.

I would agree Build quality is everything. The Avy will be running strong 10 to 20 years out. <BR>Great unibody Construction.

Sooo. youre saying that in the 5+ years boat classifieds on this forum there is no older centurions that are worth a crap??? i have only had 2 issues with my centurion avy. Rpm guage died under warranty through faria. And some douche bag burned a hole in my seat while smoking on a boat near me. other than that the boat is stellar, good lake boat with a deep hull. very stable while just chillin and my 200Lb ass walking around on deck. had a 2001 centurion sport/bow rider, was a great boat as well but the hull was flat and shallow. Didnt like the lake late in the afternoon 3 foot rollers. i have ridden in/behind sisters wakesetter, buddies Air nautique, moomba, cobalt and a good friends 30 foot eliminator. I would say that my Avy is just as good as any of those boats, they all have their great stuff and all have their bad stuff. Steve<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/694886.jpg" alt="Upload">

Exactly! There are lost of 15+ year old Centurions still running strong! The Statement "Avy will not" is just plain silly

What they said...

<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/694894.jpg" alt="Upload">

i too have since removed decals

<a href="http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/boa/1163245998.html" target="_blank">http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/boa/1163245998.html</a> <BR><a href="http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/1161862484.html" target="_blank">http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/1161862484.html</a> <BR><a href="http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/1160507604.html" target="_blank">http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/1160507604.html</a> <BR><a href="http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/1158389151.html" target="_blank">http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/boa/1158389151.html</a> <BR><a href="http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/boa/1158367703.html" target="_blank">http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/boa/1158367703.html</a> <BR><a href="http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/1154019823.html" target="_blank">http://seattle.craigslist.org/kit/boa/1154019823.html</a> <BR><a href="http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/boa/1152850862.html" target="_blank">http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/boa/1152850862.html</a> <BR>I wouldnt mind owning any of these beat up poor build quality 5-15 year old klunkers. When i put in a search for sanger a couple newer wakeboard boats showed up, but the only old ones i found had a 454 with a blower and a jetevator, and a Reo speedwagon tape stuck in the radio. steve

I'm just saying that a Sanger or a SAN will out last the Centurion. I'm not saying that some other boats won't last that long but I bet the percentages are way, way down. <BR> <BR>Take a look and see how many 25 year old Sangers and Correct Crafts are out there... How many 25 year old Malibus do you see? How many Mastercrafts? <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By steve (bondo) on Sunday, May 10, 2009 - 10:48 pm: <BR> <BR>I wouldnt mind owning any of these beat up poor build quality 5-15 year old klunkers. When i put in a search for sanger a couple newer wakeboard boats showed up, but the only old ones i found had a 454 with a blower and a jetevator, and a Reo speedwagon tape stuck in the radio. steve<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Well that might indicate what the desired boat of choice was back then... a 454 with a blower was the hot setup. Maybe the old Sanger owners actually want to keep their boats! How many people do you see restore 2001's? I don't see many people restoring Centurions... <BR> <BR>Centurion has been around since 1970... I don't see any 70's Centurions running around, but I can show you dozens of Sangers and CCs. <BR> <BR>If you don't believe that the build quality is better on a Correct Craft or a Sanger you are not being objective. <BR> <BR>What about resale? I'll put my money on the SAN.

You are right someone is not being objective

Sam, <BR> <BR>Did your parents have any kids that lived???

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>By Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh) on Monday, May 11, 2009 - 6:44 am: <BR> <BR>You are right someone is not being objective <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>So, Kevin, you are saying that the Centurion has similar build quality as a SAN or a Sanger? Hmmm... I know at least 3 dealers that sell/sold both that will say differently... <BR> <BR>But by all means, don't consider my opinion, attack it! It's clearly wrong and all the evidence out there clearly suggests that Ski Centurion is just as good of boat as Correct Craft or Sanger, in fact, it's probably better. It's obvious that Ski Centurion is best kept secret in the boating industry. <BR> <BR>Just a tip though... take one of those chrome plated wire screen air vent covers off the back of a Ski Centurion and see what nice job they did cutting out the hole for the vent in the fiberglass. Now that is fine craftsmanship! <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>My new favorite quote, "Free men are not equal, and equal men are not free."

Like I said, don't consider my opinion, attack it and ME! I didn't attack anyone, I didn't call anyone any names. I simply compared three boats...

Sam, you're the one making the atttacks, saying that a Centurion would not "be going strong after 5 or 10 years from now". No one is making the claim that a Centurion has better build quality than CC, but your first statement is absurd and was abrasive to Centurion owners. I owned a Centurion for 6 years and have been to their factory...solid boats period.

I owned an 00 Centurion that I bought a couple years old for $20K, sold 3 or 4 years later for $19K. I'll take the depreciation of a Centurion any day!

Keith, <BR>I'm just saying that IMO the '04 SAN is the better option. <BR> <BR>Abrasive huh, I didn't realize how owners get so defensive. I still didn't attack anyone specifically.

I own an 03 avy and I think the fit and finish is just ok. I think the interiors vinyl isn't the greatest. They did up their quality around 05. So you should be fine. If you surf more than you board go with the San, if not go with the avy! My throws a killer surf wave! This is with custom avy sacs, and 6 buddies!<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/695050.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/695051.jpg" alt="Upload">

Dang Duff that wave looks killer!!! I am glad that we have those Enzo sacs! LOL!! <BR> <BR>The Avy and SAN are both great boats. Depends on what you want to spend and it matters what you like the best.

These posts get so rediculous sometimes! At the end of the day we all love to WAKEBOARD. Sam, the 5-10 year comment made no sense THATS ALL. What did you mean? It sounds like you mean they are "throw away" boats. Maintenance is what makes something last. My 2005 Elite seriously looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. My buddies 2005 Avy looks like it could be a 1990 because he doesnt wipe it down,wax it,clean the interior etc etc...how you care for your boat will determine the longevity of it.

"So, Kevin, you are saying that the Centurion has similar build quality as a SAN or a Sanger? Hmmm... I know at least 3 dealers that sell/sold both that will say differently... <BR> <BR>But by all means, don't consider my opinion, attack it! It's clearly wrong and all the evidence out there clearly suggests that Ski Centurion is just as good of boat as Correct Craft or Sanger, in fact, it's probably better. It's obvious that Ski Centurion is best kept secret in the boating industry. <BR> <BR>Just a tip though... take one of those chrome plated wire screen air vent covers off the back of a Ski Centurion and see what nice job they did cutting out the hole for the vent in the fiberglass. Now that is fine craftsmanship!" <BR> <BR>Wow having a bad day or something?? <BR> <BR>I love that part about taking my boat apart to find the way they cut a hole that can't be seen now that is proof that Centurions won't even be running in 5 years. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>

Okay, pulled the trigger on the 07 Avy. Pretty happy with it, the deal is good, warranty, Red would not be my first choice but it fits my criteria in every other category. <BR> <BR>I pick it up Thursday after Liquid Trends puts in the stereo. Austin at The Liquid Playground has been great to deal with in getting racks, etc. And they are taking the 'batwing' sticker off for me too. <BR> <BR>Here are some random pics from the test drive and the lot. More to come once I get it home and on the lake this weekend. <BR> <BR>T <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/698301.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/698302.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/698303.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/698304.jpg" alt="Upload">

Congratulations! Welcome to the Centurion family! Don't forget to check out <a href="http://www.centurioncrew.com" target="_blank">www.centurioncrew.com</a> . That is where most Centurion owners "hang out" online. I've had an Enzo for 4 seasons, and have absolutely ZERO problems (only seasonal servicing, oil changes, etc.). We lower the lift, we crank it, and we go! Enjoy!! (kudos' to ditching the batwing sticker on top of the tribal graphic; I'm a Bama grad, so I'm digging the red &amp; white!).

Good looking boat! Love the tower. Avys are great boats and cut through the chop like butter. Friend of mine is picking up an '08 Avy this weekend.

Congrats, that is a great looking Centurion!!!