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-   -   plumbing question (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=640901)

drknute3 10-30-2008 10:23 AM

So Im gonna start the install of my ballast system soon and have all the basic details planned out. My main dilemma is getting water from the intake to the pumps. The intake is a bronze 1.5" pipe end with a shutoff valve on top and I need to reduce this to 2 1" lines for the pumps. Should I construct a PVC manifold or just use hard pipe? Or should I use a 1.5" Y and then reduce 2 of them down to 1" to feed into the pumps. Just not sure what would be the best and easiest way. I would appreciate any suggestions. <BR> <BR>Bill

lovin_the_wake 10-30-2008 10:55 AM

imo the best thing to do would be run 1.5" hose from the intake to a manifold and use 1" pvc on the manifold. You can get pvc reducers at lowes

lovin_the_wake 10-30-2008 11:00 AM

Not the best pic <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/640906.jpg" alt="Upload">

chpthril 10-30-2008 11:00 AM

Sch40 PVC is great stuff for a ballast manifold. Here a setup that a couple of Tige owners have done. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/640908.jpg" alt="Upload">

lovin_the_wake 10-30-2008 11:06 AM

^^^^ Much better

drknute3 10-30-2008 2:32 PM

What kind of sealant is that blue stuff? Wouldnt I just use regular PVC cleaner and cement?

drknute3 10-30-2008 2:34 PM

So reduce down the 1.5" to 1", then make the manifold out of 1" PVC? What is the advantage of a manifold over a simple Y fitting?

chpthril 10-30-2008 3:34 PM

The manifold is all 1.5" with 1" coming off to each pump. <BR> <BR>Yes, use regular PCV primer and glue on the PVC slip fittings. For the threaded, I would use 3M5200. <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/640956.jpg" alt="Upload">

drknute3 10-30-2008 4:28 PM

Perfect, thanks Mike. Think I will do mine exactly like that. I only need to outlets, but will cap off the third in case I decide to add a third pump.

yubasanger 10-30-2008 5:10 PM

The blue is Christyís Red Hot Blue Glue its what I have used for years when gluing PVC. Just use any PVC primer and then glue. Clear works also but IMO the blue makes a better bond and also is easier to tell if you have 100% coverage. That looks real tall might want to use a street 90 before the 4 way. Make sure to use tape on threaded joints to prevent leaks or use glue on threads I glue the threads if I know that I will not have to take them apart but you will have to work fast. Itís actually a solvent so only works on PVC to PVC joints. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by yubasanger on October 30, 2008)

chpthril 10-30-2008 6:08 PM

You could easily put a 90 on the thru-hull and run the manifold parallel with the floor if height is a problem. It's worth while to dry fit everything and lay it in to make sure it will function correct and not impede anything else, then pull it back out and glue.

drknute3 10-30-2008 7:15 PM

Its an I/O, I have tons of room back there. lol

drknute3 10-31-2008 5:44 PM

Another quick question... <BR> <BR>Are the thread sizes a standard NPT size where the fittings thread into the sacs? If so, what size? I am going to Menards tomorrow to get some barbed fittings for the sacs and would like to avoid having to order them.

chpthril 10-31-2008 6:02 PM

If you are using Fly High sacs, they are 3/4 straight threads, NOT NPT's. The best place to get the correct fittings are from Fly High IMO

drknute3 10-31-2008 6:05 PM

Are most PVC hose fittings NPT or ST? Really dont want to have to order them if I can get them local.

chpthril 10-31-2008 6:12 PM

Plumbing PVC is typically NPT, and marine plumbing is Straight Threads.

drknute3 10-31-2008 6:16 PM

Gotcha...I'll just order them. Thanks again Mike

drknute3 11-01-2008 11:12 AM

Do they make the 1" fittings in a 90 degree elbow? Cant seem to locate anything except the straight fittings and would prefer the elbow type. <BR> <BR>Thanks <BR>Bill

chpthril 11-01-2008 11:55 AM

If you want a 90* elbow fitting at the sac, you will need to go with the W743 &amp; W746 quick-connect fittings unless someone else has found some thing that will work. <BR> <BR>I will say that the quick-connects are worth the upgrade, makes it real easy to remove the sacs for boat cleaning and drying. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by chpthril on November 01, 2008)

drknute3 11-02-2008 1:42 PM

How does this setup look for a manifold. All Sch 40 PVC. It will thread onto my bronze thru hull intake.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/641657.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/641658.jpg" alt="Upload">

chpthril 11-02-2008 2:28 PM

Looks great, Bill, should work fine.

drknute3 11-02-2008 2:48 PM

No disadvantage to using a PVC shutoff valve instead of a metal one? PVC one seems easier to use as the brass one was very stiff.

drknute3 11-03-2008 12:21 PM

Question about check valves. I know I want to use the swing typw to minimize restriction. Is it OK to use the little plastic ones in all the places on my diagram, even the one on the main fill lines? Anyone know a cheap place to buy them?

chpthril 11-03-2008 12:52 PM

These are the ones I'm using from FlexPVC.com. They will work in the fill, drain, and vent locations and should not ever be a problem. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Valves-SwingCheck" target="_blank">http://www.flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=PVC-Valves-SwingCheck</a>

liljohn 11-03-2008 1:04 PM

Bill personaly I would use brass at the thru hull. The coast gaurd requiers it and for good reason. I know there expensive but its only one the important one. The one that will stop your boat from filling with water if something ever happens.

masonwakerider 11-03-2008 1:04 PM

pvc is not coast gaurd approved because the vibrations found in boats will loosen glued connections overtime. Please use brass threaded fittings and hose. It may not leak now, or next year, but it's been proven that overtime they do leak and so they have been banned in the marine world. I'd hate to see a $40K boat sink because pvc fittings were used to save $50 in a ballast system. If you look at any factory system they will have a brass ball valve at the thru hull.

drknute3 11-03-2008 1:21 PM

Points taken, will get the brass one for the thru hull. Thanks.

chpthril 11-03-2008 1:26 PM

Can you share some pics of an all metal system?

liljohn 11-03-2008 1:33 PM

Mike I am not saying an all metal system but no pvc between the valve and thruhull. I know malibu goes thruhull to valve to pump and from the pump on its all plastic. but i do feel better knowing i have that ball valve if something ever happened..

chpthril 11-03-2008 1:50 PM

Who cares, <BR> <BR>Sorry, I was asking WALove for pics of his non-PVC system. I would not argue the use of Brass over PVC below the water line.

liljohn 11-03-2008 4:48 PM

tigemike-Gotcha no worries...

masonwakerider 11-06-2008 4:05 PM

I've spent time with mastercrafts and centurions, and time working for a large boat outfitter. the standard procedure is to use a through hull threaded into a ball valve, large boats use a seacock, which is a flanged ball valve that is glued (5200) and screwed into the hull. Ski boats hulls are to thin to screw into so most maufacturers use a ball valve. From the ball valve you can run a hose to a manifold, fully manufactued like the one mastercraft uses or a home made one using metal threaded fittings. You can also tee off at the ball valve and then run the hose to the pumps. <BR> <BR>The main issue with solid state plumbing is it is not designed to handle the amount of vibrations that are seen in a ski boat. Your car has shock absorbers, your house doesn't move your boat bounces off every ripple. Glued pvc and soldered copper pipe are not coast gaurd approved because has been found that over time the vibrations casue these seals to fail. This is the same reason you do not see wire nuts or soldered electrical connections in boats eather. You will see some plastic fittings "above the water line" as if these fail the boat will not take on water. <BR> <BR>im sorry i have no pictures of installations heres a link to a ball valve and seacock. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.marinehardware.com/downloads/import.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.marinehardware.com/downloads/import.pdf</a>

seth 11-06-2008 4:39 PM

I have an all brass system that I will be installing this weekend. I plan on taking pictures of all steps of my install. I should be able to get pics up next week. Do a search on planetnautique. wake_fun has a good install that I based mine off of.

chpthril 11-07-2008 9:55 AM

WAlove, <BR> <BR>Without agreeing with or disputing your info, I do want to clarify that PVC joints are not glued. PVC cement is a 2-part chemical that creates a reaction when the 2 pieces are assembled. The "glue" melts/softens the PVC and when cured, to 2 parts are welded together as if one piece. If done correctly, the odds of a joint failure are probably the same as the PVC it's self cracking. <BR> <BR>Oh, and soldering is for making a clean, low resistance, electrical connection and should never be relied upon 100% for a strong mechanical hold, that's why terminal ends are intended to be crimped AND soldered $.02

gwnkids 11-07-2008 10:13 AM

I think the point of not using PVC in ridged fixed locations like screwing into the bottom of the boat is that PVC does not take the shock. by its nature it can be brittle when it gets cold. And yes glued joints can fail even if you use a primer first. <BR> <BR>I used brass to the ball valve then PVC after <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65921/643037.jpg" alt="Upload">

drknute3 11-10-2008 11:35 AM

My ball valve will be threaded directly to the thru hull, so I will make that brass, then go PVC for the manifold and hose to the pumps and lines. Thanks all.

dizzyg 11-10-2008 1:10 PM

I would also use Y's wherever you can instead of T's, one less 90 degree turn to slow things up.

cool232 11-10-2008 6:16 PM

I used aerator pumps but this might help, I used a 1.5 thru hull into a 90 then my shut off valve the I ran a radiator hose into my manifold system,PVC. Since each Tsunami fills its own bag at the end of the season I just remove the aerator part and the water drain out. also it has some movement with the radiator hose.

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