Epic 23V diesel
Is this for real? lacks info and only one pic. Nothing on website. You would think they would have had an official release of some sort or did I miss something? Discuss
http://www.onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=34745 |
Epic has never been good about their web site in terms of:
-Having a good web site - Keeping their web site updated If it is just 2 I bet it was a custom thing. |
I am not sure I have ever seen or heard of a hyundai diesel. Are there any dealers in the USA? How hard are parts to get for the engine? If it is anything like Yanmar, Komatsu, etc.. all the parts will be insanely expensive and a lot will be captive so you can't find them in the aftermarket, or at least not very easy.
I am also suprised you can get away with just a 250hp diesel in a 23' wakeboat. I guess if it has the tourque though. |
WOW! Thats pretty cool. I'd love to see it in person and hear the engine on the water, could be pretty damn cool.
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Must be fun surfing those fumes
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FIRST AND ONLY OF ITS KIND Sounds like one to stay away from.
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Carry on! I want to see a video of this thing in action.... |
Not manufactured by EPIC, was purchased as an unbranded hull and the person installed the diesel himself and the sticker on the side. EPIC have not tested a diesel configuration.
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Diesels are all about torque Brett. Keep in mind your big rigs have like 500 horsepower.
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Brett are you talking about semi trucks? If so the old cat 3206 only produced something like 350hp at 1800rpm. But made 1400-1800 ft/lbs of torque.
The new ones make it look old and tired. It's not that hard to get the modern one ton pick ups into the 1,000 ft/lb balpark. |
Hey guys just wanted to clear some things up... That is my boat I bought the hull from epic and engine from diesel company. Engine has two year not to exceed 2000 hrs warranty.
Surf wise no their no black smoke you can't even tell it a diesel except when you start it you can tell by the sound and when the turbo whines up. This Is the same company that has already done two Malibus and has put over 600 hrs on their first Malibu prototype no issues. I just picked my boat up I only got to use it for acouple hours on the water test. That is the reason I haven't started a post with videos or pics. There will be plenty of pics and video once it gets back to FL. Feel free to come check it out and demo it anytime. I will update post once i am back on the water |
Diesel engines are super solid, and from the looks of that engine, its a closed loop cooling system also. I would swap my gas PCM engine for that hyundai in a heartbeat if someone wanted to trade.
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I wouldn't touch some foreign diesel, particularly Korean, especially in a boat.
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Cory, I guess you can cross anything Duramax off your list then huh.
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Yes Nick, I will only run American made vehicles and drivelines. I confess my truck has a German transmission, but it's junk and I've already shattered the case on one. I'll be upgrading to a NV4500 eventually to get rid of the foreign junk.
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Kody-Is that what it cost you? 75,000?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8P5vGcf-NU |
^^ haha
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'Merica!
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hmm ... that's probably why we have so many American car manufacturers offering diesel as an alternative to gas ... was googling for a while as I'm aware that Hyundai is manufacturing engines for a lot longer and have been in the vessel industry almost from the beginning ...
here's a link - pretty interesting read ... http://www.hyundaiseasall.co.nz/page/News__Media I'm waiting for Kody to report back as he can compare it against the same boat with the 8.2 engine in it ... I came back from the gas station after filling up my canisters with 30 gallons and the tab was $104 ... and I'm doing this pretty much every week for my Epic 23V with the 8.1 |
People always ask about/express demand for diesel wake boats. Seems as though you can order one up from mc (select models ) with a VW turbo diesel.
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Sounds good to me:
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I had no idea anybody was actually offering it as an option from the factory. Any word on the upgrade price?
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I believe last year when MC did the diesel option and mentioned the price, it would not pay for itself. Rich people change boats like I change my underwear, once every 3-5 year and buy a new replacement. 3-5 years is not enough time for a $10k-$20k option to pay for itself in fuel savings, thus, nobody in their right mind would buy it. If you're like me and keep vehicles forever, then it would make sense as it would save a fortune over a few decades. That being said, I'd never buy some foreign Volkswagon junk. Put a 7.3 IDI in a wake boat and I'd be all over it though, if the ROI is there.
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Well, the price is plainly visible on that Epic and it's only $75k with the diesel in it. Clearly "affordable".
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So we ran the boat for a few hours today on lake lanier in GA.... We filled up and ran pretty weighted. surfed for two hours and wake boarded for two hours. So to help test GPH we filled up before and after to see how many gallons were burnt
after about 4 hrs on the lake we burned just over 14 gallons Once I get back to FL I will get all the stats for you guys TOP SPEED PLANE TIME WEIGHTED AND UN WEIGHTED EXACT GPH VIDEOS PICS We will be on Lanier again 2mrow if anyone local wants to come check it out so you can speak from experience feel free to text me and come ride. 7575804987 |
That's not too bad! How did it feel? Is the low end torque as good as you expected?
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and that compared to the Horizon 8.1S which burns about that much in half the time ... Kody by the way - the link for pictures on onlyinboards doesn't work?
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Are those air vents or something on the transom in between the wetsounds? Don't recognize those speaker grilles.
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Kody, what kind of price did you pay for that diesel and the transmission? ~20k?
Someone mentioned that mastercraft had that option but with a VW TDI. The problem was it was something like a 20k upgrade over the 310hp/350hp 350. Does anybody know what the retail price is for an MCX or similar engine/transmission if someone was just buying one as an individual? I would guess somewhere around 8-10k with the transmission. So basically Mastercraft is/was saying that the VW diesel is a 30k motor. Now if the upgrade to a diesel was in line with actual cost differences and was a 10k upgrade I think they would get some bites. Also, does anybody know the rule on using farm diesel? Can you use non-road taxed diesel in boats? That would save some money if you had access to it. Another thing to consider would be resale. It is kind of hard to put a value on it because there aren't really any diesel wakeboats out there. Would a diesel wakeboat have a better or worse resale? I know my dad had a 40 tollycraft that had 440 chryslers. He paid about 40 grand to refit with 315hp Yanmar's. It seemed crazy but he burned abotu half the fuel and when he went to sell the boat it was probably worth 20-30k more then it would of been if powered by gassers. |
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My concern for resale would be that it's a one off and not something most inland boat mechanics would be familiar with. As antiquated and inefficient as the GM SBC may be, there's something to be said for the fact that you can find most parts locally and that most mechanics are familiar with them.
It's the same as seeing a duramax suburban conversion. At first I think cool! then I wonder whether it's a problem when you take it in for service or repair. |
Cory D - have you ever left the farm?
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As for servicing a foreign diesel... Any mechanic worth his salt can service/repair/rebuild any engine. The problem is parts cost and availability. Korea/China/Japan/Europe junk? You'll pay 4x as much and wait days or weeks to get a part that for a Chevy or Ford you could just go to your local auto parts store or marine dealer and get it off the shelf for a negligible price. I've seen that several times with Volvo engines in boats, and I'm sure it'll be even worse with Asian junk. |
that thing is SICK buddy!! i wish i could get down there to check it out
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Murican made! http://www.banksmarine.com/
I think a modern diesel would be great in a loaded wakeboard boat. If you're concerned about smell while surfing I'm sure a FAE would work well or run biodiesel from your favorite restaurant... |
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You know what looks even more promising? The one that is actually in the boat in this thread and working. :) No speculation needed, it's in there and running.
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I'll do the math and Kody can correct me where I'm wrong. Epic charges for the base model 23V just around 50K which is equipped with the Mercruiser 350 engine. If you upgrade to the 8.2l Horizon it will set you back another 10K. If I now take Kody's price - this would equal to about 3K more than the fully equipped gas version with the 8.2l. Depending on when the engine was installed (assuming that this was after the bottom and top part of the hull were put together based on the pictures you have on picasa) - the labor cost is likely higher than if it happened right there at Epic. Kody has offered his 2012 anniversary edition for 70K earlier this year - again I would assume that he wants to get some money out of it or at least break even - more than fair. So the cost for buying the engine individually is much higher than getting the volume rebates a boat manufacturer can get but I would assume that Epic could price this likely for less than the 8.2 if they would want to.
check this video - at 4:15 you see the specs ... he's doing about 31 mph with a boat at 3400kg = 7440 lbs ... so that would be about the Epic fully loaded ... maybe I should offer my engine for sale ;-) |
Nicolas yea you are close here is the actual Numbers for 2012
MSRP on a 23v BASE model is $56,227.00 MSRP on 8.2L Upgrade $14,196.00 That doesn't include options Swivel Board Racks GPS Smart Tow Cruise Control Tower Mounted Mirror Three Outlet Heater with Extendable Tubes Premium Tight Fit Travel Cover Audio “Pro Edition” Interior LED Lighting Bimini Top Tower in Brush Surf Trim Tabs (Pair) Transhield Trailer, Dual Axle |
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The exhaust port locations are split and more like the big block chevy's. The new 420hp 6 liter I have has, aluminum heads and a coil for each spark plug just like the Corvette, GTO, Camaro engines. |
Still had the 2011 price list I guess ... So base just went up by 6k ... Hmmm ... Anyway - one question I forgot to ask: how is smarttow etc. incorporated with this engine now? What did you loose by not having a mercury engine?
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Nice to see more of them. Mine had a diesel option but I could never find any info about them. I ended up taking out the merc 6.2 and swapping one in myself. Fuel flow went from 8-10gph to 4-6. The only thing I lost was about 6mph off the top end. I never used that anyway.
As far as smell, you can't smell anything. On the other hand, I HATED smelling gas engine exhaust prior to boats with catalytic converters. |
In my opinion, the industry will get more into diesel, and if they don't they are foolish. Im honestly very surprised that the G23 didnt get one, that thing (as you all know) is huge and heavy. Turbo diesels are more efficient than gasoline engines, that is an indisputable fact.
The smell? Come on guys, are you saying that you enjoy the smell of your gasoline exhaust? This argument is irrelevant. Im excited someone has a working boat! maybe this can help get things rolling. I have always wanted to buy a brand new powerstroke and drop it into something :) |
still waiting for Kody to post pictures/vids?
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It's bolt on stuff. Coil on plug? Bolt on, you can do that on a 60s SBC if you want, very easily. Really COP is pointless in a boat, you're not turning enough RPM to exceed the capability of a single coil. It just adds unnecessary complexity and expense to what is a fairly low output and low RPM engine. |
Is it legal to run offroad diesel in a boat?
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Kody I'd really like to check out your boat and go for a set. Im in Orlando, shoot me a PM if you ever need a 3rd or just want to ride I got gas money too and besides the riding would just really like to check out this engine as I haven't seen a diesel yet.
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Yep I use offroad diesel in mine sometimes. No different other than the dye. Legal since it's not on a road.
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I think it depends on the state but where I get it in VA it's about 30 cents cheaper. Where I get it in TN, regular diesel is same price as Offroad in VA. The main reason I switched to a diesel engine was biodiesel. But right now I can't keep producing it to run the boat. I'm upgrading my system though. I think I will be too late for this year, but next season I shouldn't have to buy any diesel at all during the summer.
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Max T, can we get some more info on your swap? I would be interested in what problems you encountered, what brand/model/specs engine you went with, did you change the transmission, etc.. To keep from hijacking this thread you could start another.
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Here in oklahoma it's cheaper because you don't pay road tax. Which I beleive is 30cents a gallon.
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I will have to start a thread once I got everything finished up. I still need to put an intercooler on and a heat exchanger. Also, last winter I was going to rebuild the engine and repaint it but didn't get a chance so I just ran everything as is this summer. I used a gm 6.5 since it has the same bellhousing pattern. Also, decent rpm range and not too heavy. Nothing else would fit in my boat anyway. It's a VERY tight fit in places probably 1/8" for the oil pan clearance and about the same up top in a spot. Not sure how familiar you are but the 6.5 gets a lot of bad talk and has problem areas especially depending on the year of the block. However, GEP bought the whole line from GM and still makes them for the H1. They fixed all the design problems that the GM engines had. My plan was to try it out with a used one and then buy a new GEP engine but I don't think I'll do that now. I bought a truck that had 200k and a broken odometer. Despite concerned friends and relatives, took out my 6.2 mpi with 400 hours on it and swapped them out. This is now my 2nd summer and about 350 hours on the old 6.5; and these last two summers have been my most trouble free summers of all my boating. The only problem I had was a defective oil line that blew testing it 2nd time out. By the time I caught it, the engine only had 3/4 of a quart. It never lost oil pressure. I figured it still did some damage, but it's still running fine. I cut the oil filter apart and it didn't have metal. Got really lucky. The bilge was quite a mess though. As far as everything else, the hardest part was the exhaust. I welded a full stainless exhaust with aluminum after the holset turbo. Working with all that stainless was a pretty tedious process and it felt like I was buying argon every other day. The boat is about 300-400lbs heavier in the back with this engine. I have the fuel and boost at stock until I get the intercooler on. Acceleration performance is the same as the Mercruiser 6.2. Lost about 6mph off the top end due to smaller rpm range. The transmission and v drive are doing fine so far. They are both above their rated torque though. Hope it stays that way as there is no space for 72c. I'm very happy with the outcome. Cost me about $3500 total to do the swap. Already more than paid for itself in saved fuel. We ride all the time but never video. I have some iPhone videos but I'll try to get something decent together soon. |
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