I'm sure some of you remember this....
 

In the newspaper today. It's still ongoing....

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,7467661.story

yeah, i remember that. i could be wrong but i believe it was chris butler's dogs. i'm curious to see the outcome of this case since defense attorneys cited a law that allows for the killing of dogs to protect livestock.

What a piece of sheet.

Man that does suck to watch being a dog lover myself. Didn't one of the dogs hit to road to recovery really well? Can't wait to see the outcome of this one.

Ugh! That makes my stomach turn! That is absolutely malicious. I hope he gets what he deserves!

I can't see the video but I read the article. If someone let his dogs in a field with livestock, and they were harrasing said livestock(chasing, bitting etc), why can't the landowner shoot the dogs? Its the dogowners duty to keep them leashed. I love dogs as well, but if mine got out and were threatening someones livelyhood, I wouldn't be surprised if they shot them.

I remember that. Form a few years back. From the story's and the video its seems like the dog's were not trying to kill the cow's or anything it’s like they just got loose and were playing with the livestock. These were people’s pets, not wild dog's looking for a meal. I don't know if the dogs had got loose and done this before or if this was the first time but it does seem like the Shooter was heavy handed in what he did but maybe he was with in the law. And I guess that's what the trial is all about.
There is a law that say's you can defend your livestock I guess the question is? Was this mans live stock in real danger or did he use this opportunity to take care/teach a lesson to a menacing problem.

I am a dog lover myself. I hate to see something like this. If I did own a dog/cat or what ever. I would MAKE SURE. That I had the proper cage fence or what ever so the chances of them ever getting out and bothering anyone or thing could not happen. I have seen many cases of where a so call "good dog"/ family pet got loose and were either shot by the police or hurt some one. It all start's with a Responsible owner. I hate to say this because I would Never want my dog to get shot But, If your animal does not get out 99.9% of all these shooting’s / problems would not happen. I understand accidents happen, but that’s a chance you as an owner have to take on.

IMO These dog's did nothing wrong. They were just playing. It’s too bad they got out. Like they say in the UFC “Never put it in the hand s of the Judge's”
I would never want some one other than Me to determine if that dog deserves to be put down

If you read the article they said not one mark was found on the cows and the dogs looked like they were dancing around the cattle. The dogs had collars with tags on so instead of shooting them why not chase them away or call the number on the tag. If those were my dogs and he shot them I would do the same thing to him

Here we go again. The methods used by the shooter were obviously not very sensitive, but it is obvious that most of you have not grown up around livestock. Dogs just running around and chasing livestock can easily cause them to fall, break legs, die of exhaustion, etc. Those cows look exactly like the balance in your bank account to their owner, and he has a right to protect them from irresponsible dog owners. Owners whose dogs chase their neighbors' livestock should consider themselves lucky if they get one chance to correct the problem. This is simply a result of an urban family moving into a rural area and thinking things should work the same way they did back in the city.

"but if mine got out and were threatening someones livelyhood, I wouldn't be surprised if they shot them"

How were the two dogs "threatening someones livelihood"? Cows are capable of defending themselves, especially against domesticated animals. I could see if the dogs had a cow pinned down and were inflicting harm, but from the video, the cows did not appear to be in any danger. Why not try shooting into the air to scare the dogs away instead of blasting away at the dogs? This is what happens when trigger-happy douchebags are allowed to legally own weapons. I can't imagine if something like that happened to my animals. Hopefully that scumbag dies a miserable death.

Stuff happens, dogs get out. I have 3 dogs and an appliance installer left my back gate open a few years ago. Well, two of them got out. Luckily, I found them without incident. I think it is asinine to assume that only "irresponsible pet owners" animals get loose.

Trace, I have grown up around livestock. Not one time have I seen what you mentioned happen.

if I recall from the video, the dogs were not near the livestock, but merely on the same piece of land. this guy who shot them also had a history of firing his weapon when he should not be. also, the owner (Nicola's dad) was in the field telling the man NOT to shoot his dogs, yet the man kept firing away.

for the sake of a good debate. Luke you said you would do the same to the guy. Im guessing your saying you would shoot the guy that shot your dog!
I can understand you being upset at some one that shot your family pet/ best friend. But your saying you would shoot a Human that shot your dog while chasing his livestock on his property? And there is a Law that says the land owner has the right to do so. That seems pretty crazy to me.
I guess Im crazy Because I always see human life Trumps a animals life. I do understand If someone shot and killed my pet I would be upside down. But I guess its the details that change this story. If some guy came in my house or back yard and blasted my dog, well then I guess all bets are off I don't know to many people that wouldn't react in any other manner if they had a gun in their hand
But I do understand accidents happen. Dog's do get out. But when they do get out your placing their well being in the hands of people who don't give a crap about your pet.

Like I said, I couldn't see the video, but,, if you raise cows for a living, thats called a livelihood. If something is threatening the cows, they are threatening your livelihood by putting it at risk. A couple of mean huskies, have the capability to hurt a cow. As mentioned above, they don't have to bite it to harm it. If I had cows in a pasture and a couple of dogs where chasing them around scaring them, I would (as you mentioned) shoot in the air, but if that didn't work, they would be put down.

Having said that, if it was that cut and dry this wouldn't be at trial. So there is obviously more going on here.

I have heard about loose dogs getting shot quite a bit living here.

a. the shooter was charged w/ a crime
b. the shooter pled not guilty
c. there was enough evidence for the prosecutor to present the case.

thus, it went to trial.

"if it was that cut and dry this wouldn't be at trial"

What does that mean? Everyone in this country is afforded the right to a trial. Jeffery Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh, etc. all had a trial.

G, yes I would shoot the guy without a second thought. My dog means everything to me and in that video and according to the witnesses response the dogs were doing nothing but playing with the cattle in the field. I understand the owner has a right to protect the cattle but do you really think he needed to shoot them 7 times, or once for that matter? One was shot 4 and the other 3 times, that is animal cruelty. Like Jeremy said why not shoot one in the air or at the ground to scare them away? If a coyote, wolf, or any non domesticated animal near livestock I could see shooting since those animals intentions will be to hurt the livestock but from the video and witnesses those dogs were playing in a field where livestock was and some piece of S*** guy would rather shoot them then scare them away or even get the dogs to call the owner. Every time i see a loose dog while driving or walking I will always get out and try and call the owner of that dog or take it to the vet to see if it has a Chip with the owners information. I would want someone to do the same for mine if my dog accidentally got out

IIRC it boiled down to the fact that the guy kept shooting the dogs after the owner arrived to get them. Even though the owner was there, he was asking the guy to stop, and the dogs weren't threatening anyone or the cows, he continued to shoot.

Luke Im tottaly with you on this My dog is everything at this point in my life... That guy needs to be shot... or watch something he loves suffer...

If it was as cut and dry as some dogs attacking cattle in a field and the owner shot them. If that was the case, he would not have been charged with a crime, or had to enter a plea.

I also remember the shooter was a friend of the land owner not the actual owner.

I wonder how I would react if they were my dogs ? I know how I think I would react, But one only knows when faced with it ?

And G I would beg to differ that a human life trumps an animals ! Just watch the news at night....:(

If in fact the cattle were in danger then I don't see the problem with him shooting the dogs. I do feel that after having shot them once each he probably should have stopped as it seemed to be enough but obviously I wan't there. You guys that love your dog so much that you would have shot him. Would it have been okay to shoot the dogs if they were endagering a humans life? I ask because its obvious that you'd trade a humans life for the dogs.

Hate N Pain, that is not even close to the same topic. If a dog was harming a human life and ACTUALLY harming them and not running around like they were doing with the cattle then I could see it being shot. If it was actually biting and harming the cattle then I could see it being shot too. It would be the last thing I would do before trying to scare them away but if they were biting a human or livestock then that is different. AGAIN though in that video and witnesses response the dogs were not harming the cattle. So to answer your question If it was my dog in that video then yes I would trade my dogs life for that shooter in a heart beat, and probably would be the one taking his life to trade. Those dogs in the video weren't mine but I would rather have them alive then the piece of S*** that shot them.

Are you serious? No one said anything about trading a dogs life for a humans. I'm sure everyone agrees that if the dogs were endangering someones life they would pull the trigger. The fact is the guy just decides to walk out and shoot the dogs because he is under the impression that they are spooking the cattle. Clearly the dogs are just having fun and the cattle are in no way scared of the dogs; anyone who has been around cattle and seen them spooked before could tell you this. To answer the question, if that ******* shot my dogs infront of all those people without asking for me to control them, YES i would have unloaded the whole clip on his a$$!

Didn't say it was. If you reread my post I reasoned why I asked. Thanks for answering honestly Luke although I think its dangerous to presume from that video that the dogs weren't harming the cattle. I mean you guys are blowing this guy away based on a few minutes of video and with no knowledge of the extenuating circumstances.

I so often hear pet owners relating human life and their respective animal "they're like my kids" and always wonder to what extent they believe that. Especially when these people run right out and buy a new dog, cat, etc when their beloved best friend and "child" up and dies. To the contrary I have seen so many of my friends who felt this way actaully have kids and before you know it the dog is second rate.

It blows me away that you would happily go to jail for the rest of your life for a dog.

How is this so clear to you? Again you saw a few minutes of video. Why do you think the people started randomly filming? They had no idea the guy was gonna start blasting the dogs. There must have been something going on before. I've spent plenty of time around cattle, my dad raises them both beef and milk.

Really?
I would argue that when you decide to kill him you are willing to do just that. I mean obviously you wouldn't have waited for him to start shooting your dog, right? He pulls out the gun takes aim on your dog you start "emptying the clip" right?

Dogs do not "play" with livestock. Ever. Running in circles around a herd is a technique used by wolves to upset and exhaust the herd, so they can separate a victim. Stop personifying animals, folks.

I read it, but you asked because you assumed that I would trade a dogs life for a humans. If my dog was hurting someone of course I would understand if it was shot. Were blowing this guy away because obviously the reactions from the people on the side of the road that watched and the media were shocked. That is why he is being charged because those few minutes were enough evidence to show it could have been handled way differently and those dogs didn't have to be shot 7 times.

The only reason he shot seven times is because he can't hit crap. Would it have been better if he only had to shoot once?

He did hit them each time though, 3 times with one dog and 4 times with the other. One lost an eye but both lived. It would have been the same to me with one shot though.

Missed the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdH_bsplcek

Watch the video, I see a dog playing with the livestock. You can't just assume the dogs were vicious and trying to kill some of the cattle. You can't assume it's not trying to kill them either but in this particular video those are domesticated dogs looking like they are having fun, and if they were vicious enough the owner probably wouldn't have them.

I see what your are saying... We DONT know all the facts. I think everyone believes the situation should have been handle completely different. BUT... It looks to me that the guy cared nothing for the dogs or the owner and I could only imagine the rage flowing through me if I was put in the owners position.

How bizarre! A seemingly innocent, informative thread turns to an internet argument. What is this world coming to?

But why should he care about the dogs? What if he hates dogs? There is no law that says you must love animals. For all we know, he saw two dogs messing with his cows and shot them. End of story.

He actually shot 9 times and scored 7 hits. From what I remember they said it was a .45 as well. The dogs are lucky to have survived.

The fact of the matter is that he continued shooting after the owner had arrived and was shouting not to shoot the dogs. Chris had already grabbed one dog when the man turned and shot again at the other one. That is where the cruelty charges come in. The dogs were no longer a threat, the owner had arrived to collect them, and he continued to fire away, despite Chris having already arrived at the scene. And it appears that the dog that "tried to attack" the man with the gun was actually trying to run to Chris as he arrived to get the dogs.

If he hadn't arrived, the dogs being shot would have been a different story, but as it stands, the man went way beyond necessary when it came to "dealing with a threat."

fyi, the cattle didn't belong to the shooter/defendant. he said that he was ordered to shoot the dogs by the property owner.

as you were.

Then please tell me why the hell this guy going to trial and was charged two counts of felony animal cruelty?

Because someone put it on youtube.

"Luke although I think its dangerous to presume from that video that the dogs weren't harming the cattle. I mean you guys are blowing this guy away based on a few minutes of video and with no knowledge of the extenuating circumstances."

No, I also read the story from the Orlando newspaper that had the clip with it. The assistant DA stated:

But Assistant State Attorney Erin DeYoung said in her opening statement that "Christopher Comins shot those dogs over and over and over again. There's not a single injury to those cows."
She said Comins fired nine times. "The dogs were hit at least seven times," DeYoung added, arguing that the dogs had collars on and that Comins continued to fire even as onlookers shouted for him to stop and even as the dogs' owner came running, also calling for him to stop firing"

There is no way to justify this madness. Trace, what a piss-poor way to justify the shooter's behavior (and it wasn't even his livestock). Comparing a wolf to a domesticated canine? You can't be serious. And I guess when ranchers use dogs to aid in herding cattle, the dogs are "exhausting the herd, to separate a victim". Give me a break. I'm sure those savage Siberian Huskies were circling the cattle, looking for their next meal. I think you are a few IQ points shy of the animals we are "trying to personify".

"Chris had already grabbed one dog when the man turned and shot again at the other one. That is where the cruelty charges come in. The dogs were no longer a threat, the owner had arrived to collect them, and he continued to fire away, despite Chris having already arrived at the scene. And it appears that the dog that "tried to attack" the man with the gun was actually trying to run to Chris as he arrived to get the dogs."


Now that makes sence.

Really? That is why he is on trial because of a website that has videos? Being on youtube just made it popular.

"There is no way to justify this madness. Trace, what a piss-poor way to justify the shooter's behavior (and it wasn't even his livestock). Comparing a wolf to a domesticated canine? You can't be serious. And I guess when ranchers use dogs to aid in herding cattle, the dogs are "exhausting the herd, to separate a victim". Give me a break. I'm sure those savage Siberian Huskies were circling the cattle, looking for their next meal. I think you are a few IQ points shy of the animals we are "trying to personify". "

He was in charge of the land and cows, so thats a moot point.

I have seen domesticated animals kill people. Thats a stupid arguement.

Dogs that are trained to work with cows are a far cry from dogs that are running wild in a field. Again, you arguement is dumb.

^Yeah, it's not a crime unless it shows up on YouTube.

He's probably on trial because of witness statements and corroborating videos.

"I have seen domesticated animals kill people. Thats a stupid arguement."

I have seen PEOPLE kill people. So I guess it's okay to compare people to wolves.


This says it all:
"Again, you arguement is dumb."

Where is Sam Ingram!
I wanna hear what he has to say!
J/K Sam stay far far away from this thread!

On Trial, not guilty of.

I am leaving this thread if he comes on hahaha j/k

Well I guess we can finish the argument when we figure out the verdict.

Oh, because I missed the r. Brilliant.

You said you can't compare a wulf to a domesticated k9. You most certainly can. It doesn't take a whole lot for dogs to revert to its nature. Remember these are not little ankle bitters you guys from berkley like to call dogs. We are talking about real dogs.

He's going to be found guilty of the cruelty charge on account of the fact that Chris had arrived to secure the dogs. He no longer needed to continue shooting, but he fired 4 or 5 times after Chris started shouting and running into the field, one of which was after Chris grabbed a dog. I'd have to watch the video again to listen to it to be sure, that I'm fairly sure that's what I counted when i watched it a few minutes ago. There's no shadow of a doubt, that is cruelty. Had Chris not been there, innocent, but Mr. Butler did arrive in time to collect the dogs without Commins having to have shot more than 3-5 times.

I wonder if huskies are even genetically discernable from wolves? Like it or not, animals do most of their scheming with instinct, not deductive reasoning.

LOL at calling people stupid who disagree with you.

Paul,
I don't have an ankle biter, I have a Pit Bull so does that mean just because some Pit Bulls were raised bad that it wouldn't take a lot for mine to turn on me or someone else? It is in the owner, if you train a dog sh**** then it is going to be a sh**** dog but if you take time and raise a dog right there would be no reason for the dog to revert to its nature because its nature is being a playful good dog. Just because those dogs were what you call Real Dogs doesn't mean they have it in their nature to hunt and stalk livestock. I don't know why you are arguing when you saw the same video we saw? Like Nick said he will be charged because he kept shooting when the owner arrived and the cattle were out of harms way?

"You said you can't compare a wulf to a domesticated k9."

So I can compare you to a gang-banger with no regard for human life? You are both homo sapiens.

"I wonder if huskies are even genetically discernable from wolves?"

What does that have to do with anything? My housecat is probably genetically identical to a cougar or mountain lion, I guess it should be open season on kitties around the world.

I have to go. I just noticed my cat Smokey is getting ready to pounce on an antelope, and my German Shepard mix is trying to join a wolf pack.

"LOL at calling people stupid who disagree with you."

Just calling a spade a spade.

Cougars and mountain lions are the same thing, unless you're thinking Fifi shares DNA with single 40+ yr old women. If your cat got into my rabbit hutch / aviary / aquarium and started laying waste, yep, it would be open season.

So he's not on trial for initialy shooting the dogs? Can we infer from that, that it is okay to shoot the dogs? That the only wrong came about when the owner showed up and tried to stop him?

Jeremy, just because the PA in this case makes a statement doesn't make it correct. Of course they are going to defend their postion, one would expect the same from the defense as is evidenced by the statments he made in the link. Again, I am not saying either is correct because we don't have enough evidence to make that claim.

The one consistent theme you see in every Pit Bull attack story is the owner saying how docile their dog is.

Sounds about right based on the history not in this article and this statement.

http://www.dogguide.net/blog/2008/05...with-children/

Pit Bulls are voted number 3 for best family dog. Pit Bulls came in second right behind golden retrievers for the United Stated Dog Temperament Test. Pit Bulls aren't the problem it's the owner.

Welp, as someone who lives in the country and has livestock I'll chime in and piss off some city boys. If a "stray" dog (one I don't know who owns it) and bothers our livestock there is a chance I might shoot it. I wouldn't go for that as a first option but also don't rule it out. More likely I would beat the living ***** out of the dog with a large stick. Our neighbors dog attacked my daughter's horse while they were riding down our private road yesterday. Luckily, our dogs where there to run them off. If something had of happened to my daughter because of her horse spooking I would have no problem shooting the dog. On the other hand, we found out one of our dogs decided he had a taste for a neighbor's chickens. I would've completely understood if the nieghbor had shot him. Sucks but that's life in the country if you can deal with it please stay away.

That said, I am not commenting on this specific case as I know next to nothing about it......................Flame away........

I don't think anyone could argue with that. I like that you would beat it with a stick to scare them away rather than shooting them repeatedly.

Its not the owners I'm worried about. I don't disagree that the owners play a large role in the social development of the dog but sorry I'll never trust them.

Traktor: I agree with you 100%.
BTW did you buy your Neighbor a new chicken?

Dogs around livestock isa bad idea. Dogs intentions may be harmless, but that doesnt mean they cannot do harm. Livestock is money.

IMO, cases like this need to be strongly weighted by the first mistake. Was the first mistake shooting after the owner tried to retrieve his dogs? No. Was it shooting at dogs on the livestock property he is to secure? No. It was allowing the dogs to run free on someone elses property. Its not the property custodians job to judge the intention of the dogs or guess the livestocks results. This gave this POS a legal reason to be an acehole. One would hope our neighbors would use a little courtesy, at least the first time.

Having said that, I hope he goes up on cruelty charges.

Secure your dogs. There is no "accidentally getting out". it is either impossible to get out\away or it is probable at some point. Do not put others in the position to make judgement calls regarding your animal. Whatever their determination is.... is on you.

"Livestock is money...It was allowing the dogs to run free on someone elses property."

So, if one of the cows had got out it's kosher to just start shooting instead of someone getting hurt? How would the owner felt if someone had shot his cow just because it was where it did not belong? Cattle get out all of the time here in Tennessee, some at farms that have been professional cattle handlers for decades. A dog or just about any animal can get out unless you keep in locked up in a concrete bunker or it doesn't have any legs.

I guess that's your opinion but I guarantee if you had one you'd change your mind. I will never own another type of dog than a pitbull, they are to good of dogs!

that's what i said...until i met my sister's pit.

his name's tank, but he's actually a sweetheart...one of the biggest lap dogs. and my little ankle biters rule him! :D

http://www.joeumali.com/wp-content/u.../07/tank03.jpg

Grant, yep I did. You would be amazed at what the aggrieved party thinks a chicken is worth..........

My next door neighbor has a pit, Roxy is her name he's very good about only letting her out on leash and/or tethered to her chain. She's extremely friendly around people and he has her well trained. He's an easy going guy and its reflected in Roxy. A few summers ago I was spreading bark and my daughter was in the front yard playing while I worked. Roxy got off her chain and came sprinting into my yard for my daughter growling and barking. Luckily she pulled up when I stepped in front of my daughter witht he shovel or I would have beat that dog to death. I've had them chase after me when I was running (kicked that one in the face and throat) and biking (also kicked in the face), I got lucky in both incidences that they ran off, especially the time I was running. In that incident the owner was chasing after it which is likely the reason it stopped. They were actually pissed at me for defending myself.

I know the media blows up pit and rot attacks but just Google news "pitbull attacks" and look at the last week. Their ability to inflict damage is unreal. Are all pits bad? Absolutley not but I just can't trust em. Same goes for Rots.

Sorry for being so off topic.

Interesting that this comes back

I dont think anything will happen to the guy who shot the dogs

Im surprised nobody hasnt posted the original thread

"Ever occur to you why some of us can be this much concerned with animals suffering? Because government is not. Why not? Animals don't vote. ~Paul Harvey"

"I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it. ~Abraham Lincoln"

"The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creatures that cannot. ~Mark Twain, What Is Man, 1906"

"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." ~ Mahatma Gandhi

I'm no lawyer, and the Comins guy is obviously a triggerhappy, heartless hick, but he will not be convicted of animal cruelty IMO. What legal grounds do any of these arguments have to stand on?
"the owner had showed up and was trying to collect his dogs"
"sensitive people were watching from the road"
"they weren't even his cows, but he was charged with protecting them from stray dogs"

Florida's animal cruelty statute (Florida State Statute 828.12) lays out what constitutes misdemeanor and felony animal cruelty:
Misdemeanor: A person who unnecessarily overloads, overdrives, torments, deprives of necessary sustenance or shelter, or unnecessarily mutilates, or kills any animal, or causes the same to be done, or carries in or upon any vehicle, or otherwise, any animal in a cruel or inhumane manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or both.
Felony: A person who intentionally commits an act to any animal which results in the cruel death, or excessive or repeated infliction of unnecessary pain or suffering, or causes the same to be done, is guilty of a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $10,000, or both.
Source: Florida State Statutes

The underlined section says different.

HatePain,
I'm sorry to hear about your neighbors pit but Google any Dog Attack. Pit Bulls are just reported because they are bigger dogs and have a bad name. Compared to almost any other dog a Pit is far less aggressive. Those Yapper and ankle biter dogs provoke and bite humans and other dogs more than anything but since they are smaller dogs it is hardly ever reported. They might not be able to harm an adult but I sure wouldn't trust those dogs around a toddler or baby. I for sure would trust my pit though, she is amazing around my 16month nephew.

Jeremy,
Great quotes, that is awesome you found those!

Really? The fact remains that the dogs were loose, trespassing, and *possibly* endangering assets that he was charged with protecting, thus it seems to me that the dogs were at his mercy from a legal standpoint.

Thanks for ruining the pagination of this thread, Joe. :P

The dogs were at his mercy until the dog owner arrived. Even if the owner didn't show up I don't agree that he needed to shoot them but it was legal to protect his assets and the dogs could have made the cows trip and hurt themselves, but he messed up when he kept shooting when the owner was there and the cattle were out of harms way and that is why he is being charged.

yours is jacked? mine's fine and i'm on my laptop. desktop looks fine, too. both on ff3.6.

It looks like the Judge has thrown out the case, "the state was unable to prove the cruelty". After some research, it appears that the landowner is in cahoots with the mayor. Backroom politics at its finest. Previously, the Saint Christopher Comins was found guilty of pointing a gun at another man (the laser sight), and not surprisingly, only received probation. Sounds like a stand-up human being. All of you taking up for this POS should be proud of yourselves.