Chevy Tow Vehicle Engine Advice
 

Now that the WakeWorld rig is in the graveyard, I have to replace it with another truck. It was a 2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 crew cab long bed 4x4 with the 8.1 engine and Allison transmission and I absolutely loved that truck! However, I don't tow as far as I used to, so I'm wondering if maybe I could get away with a smaller engine to save some gas mileage. I don't need the one-ton rating, so a 2500 will probably open up my selection a bit. I'm guessing I'll be looking at around the same model year because I'm really happy with that truck and I probably won't have enough money to get anything newer.

What kind of advice can you give me on the engines available in those trucks. I'm not a diesel fan, so you'll really have to do some convincing to get me to go that way. I'm just looking for gas engine advice. What engines are available (I think the 6.0 is the next biggest) and how do they tow? Thanks for your help!

The 6.0l tow well but will probably get a little less mpg than the 8.1 while towing. Good motor though. You can get that motor in the 1/2 ton trucks. If you went newer you could get the newest vortex max in the 1/2 ton, its a 6.2l about 410 lb tq with a 6 speed tyranny. That is available in the 07+ silverado and 2010+ sierra. They tow really well.

I guess I'm not really worried about towing mileage any more because I only tow short distances for the most part. Now most of the mileage is driving out to the river without a boat hooked up, so that's why I thought I might benefit from the better gas mileage of the 6.0. Good to know about the new engine. I really haven't followed the latest developments, so that's just the kind of info I need.

What about the different between a 2500 and a 1500? Do you really need a 2500 to tow a big wakeboarding boat and gear? I definitely don't want to undershoot the truck's ability, but now I'm thinking maybe I can make due with a half ton.

You don't need the 2500 for towing the boat, in fact if it was a daily driver for you id stick to the 1500 with the vortec max from 2006+. I had a 2006 and it towed my vlx well. Got 15-17 mpg mixed freeway/city and about 10 mpg towing, slightly less if a lot of hills.

how long is your boat towing commute, as well as your everyday driving commute??

I don't have an every day commute and my boat commute is about 1/2 a mile. This truck gets most of it's mileage driving to and from the river (4 hours each way) without the boat and the occasional tow of the boat for that same distance. Other than that, it only gets used if I need to run an errand and the minivan is not in the driveway.

gonna have to agree with you dave and say that a 2500 is a little overkill for a 1/2 mile tow + local errands. a 1500 sounds like a good size for you.

sorry i own a 2500 silverado w/ duramax so i dont have any knowledge on mpg on the 1500 other than the chevy website; claiming 15/21 mpg. hopefully a few fellow wakeworlders out there tow with one of these and can give you accurate numbers instead of manufactures estimates...

If you want to stick with chevy, the newer 06 (I believe) 5.3 4wd would be a good fit for what you use it for. I have an 08 5.3 tahoe and tows fine locally. I would not recommend towing with it consistently out to the river with the steep grades and extreme heat but from orange county to elsinore, its great. It gets good gas mileage on the freeway - from our house to needles (not towing) we get about 19-20 mpg and average about 15 (that's with big wheels).

Dave, the main thing I'd be concerned with is space. Can you still fit everyone in a 1500 quad cab? Also, going from an 8ft bed to a 5.5 needs to be considered too. Knowing your situation, I'd stick with a 3/4 ton IMO.

I've done quite a bit of research on these trucks, as I've been talking about getting one for 50 gazillion years and have some pretty goo knowledge from people that work on them for a living.

The 6L is a great motor (according to a lot of people I talk to) that will go 200K. Mileage is still bad in the 3/4 ton bit slightly better than the one you have. Despite what the internets people will tell you, I've hear a realistic 12-14 unloaded and 7-10 towing depending on the load. But I'm sure someone will come on here and tell you they average 19 :confused:

The newer trucks have the 6 speed which is highly recommended but the 4 is fine too. Nothing will be as good as the allison you had in your other one. Even my Ford/Dodge clients all say the Allison can't be touched. As for the 6 liter, I've heard there are no bad model years like the diesels.

If you get convinced to go Diesel, get an 06" with the good motor. You will recognize it by a "D" in the middle of the VIN number. These are in high demand though and you will pay for them. If you plan on owning the truck more than 7-10 years you should break even assuming no unexpected repairs come up.

05 GMC Savana 3500 6L 373 rear gear It gets 15mph not towing and 10 towing. I towed with a 01 Safari 4.3L 342 rear gear it got 20 mph not towing but only 9.5 towing . I was never confident when towing with such a small vehicle I would never go back just not worth the extra mpg.

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i have a 5.3L crew cab 1/2 ton 4x4 Chevy and get 12-14 in the city and 7-10 while towing my 230. I have NEVER gotten above 17 on the hwy. people claiming 19-20 must be doing something I don't know about.

that being said, my engine and truck are fine for towing that short of a distance. i'm sure the 6.0L would be even better.

I drive an 05' chevy 3500 for a work truck with a 6.0l. I pull trailers about 80% of the time, 7-10 mpg loaded is right on the money.

Brian, you make it sound like the crew cab is smaller on the 1500 than it is on the 2500/3500. I was under the impression that the bodies were all the same. Is that not the case?

Also, is the Allison transmission still something they use? Is it hard to find? I guess I'm not married to it, but I really like the way it never makes me use my brakes when I'm towing.

David the cabs are the same on the 1500/2500. The allison is only available in the diesel now I think.

Yes, the more I look for Allison transmissions on a gas engine, the more I realize how rare my truck was. Does anyone know when they stopped offering the Allison on a gas engine?

Thanks for the info on the cabs. I had always assumed the bodies were the same, so it's good to know I got that right.

I guess the cabs are the same but does the center console flip up on the 1/2 tons to accomodate a passenger up there? Not sure, just asking. I think you guys usualy have a kid up there on trips right?

Allison was only offered in the 8.1 gas which I believe they discontinued in 05'?

You had a rare one for sure with the non dually 3500. I've seen some 8.1's out there and they're actually a little cheaper but it may take some time to find one.

If you're going to go the half ton route, don't count out the F150. I rode in one when I went hunting last year and that thing had tons of room and you can get the truck with a 6ft bed.

6.5' box ;)

Lol you're right.

I know that the 2500/3500 comes with either "bucket" seats (two passengers) or a bench seat (three passengers) in front. The bench seat is a must have for me and I'd assume they would offer that in the 1500 as well.

I guess I'd be dumb not to look at the Fords too, but the F150 just seems really small with the different body style than the larger Fords.

Dave: If I'm not mistaken the cab of the F150 has more room than your 3500 did. We had 5 adults in an 10' 150, I was in the back and as you know, I'm 6'0" and had plenty of leg room. Seriously, the thing was huge.

Sounds like I need to cruise some used car lots and sit in some vehicles. I guess I need to look at Dodge too. I actually owned a Dodge a while back and I really liked it, but we had to sell it because it wasn't a crew cab and children kept popping out of my wife!

Damn your wife,good thing you didn't have anything to do with all those children popping out of her.Great that there were no serious injuries from your crash and from the looks of the vehicles involved it is amazing.

Dave, seriously check out the Fords. The new crew cab F150 is way bigger than the Chevy crew cab. I'm more of a "chevy guy" but Ford really has it going on with the new F150 and the EcoBoost. I had a 5.3 Avalanche and 10mpg would have been great towing but in my area, I was lucky to get 7 towing my RZ2. Mixed driving was about 14, sometimes 15 and highway was usually about 18. I stepped up to a crew cab Duramax a few years ago and it's a great truck but just doesn't ride or drive as nice as 1/2 ton trucks do. Go check out that new EcoBoost for real even if you can get a better deal on a GM truck right now.

I have an '06 Chevy 1500, and wish I had a 2500 when I tow my X-Star (current X-1). You want a bigger engine than a 5.3, and it pushes my truck when I'm stopping. I'm never getting a 1/2 ton truck again. The duramax's ride just as fine, if not better b/c of the weight, it depends on how much bolt you put in the torsion bars to level the front end. Go with a diesel, you save w/ fuel economy, and can even make your own fuel in your back yard.

Dave,
If you look around you can still find relatively low miles on the 8.1L. I generally buy one of these every year for my logging business. I am in some very rural areas and sometimes I have a very hard time finding diesel so I use gas engines. I have tried them all and nothing beats the 8.1L. What's the old saying, theres no replacement for displacement..

In my experience the 6.0L has been a good motor, but when operating in the lower RPM's the 8.1L is head and shoulders above it. I can easily kill my 6.0L pulling from a stand still, doing the same with the 8.1L is next to impossible, the tires eventually just break loose, but you can't kill the engine.

The best other engine is Ford 3 valve 6.8L V10, I just bought two trucks from the US Forest Service and they both pull hard.

I have been looking at these, but will probably pass because I need a 4x4.

2005 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 HD CREW CAB

2006 Chevrolet Silverado 2500

Ok, as far as a Chevy goes, I think I've narrowed it down to a 2500 (I don't think the 1500 will give me enough engine, braking, etc. because there is nothing worse than having less truck than you need) and, if I can swing it, I'd like to go with a 2008 since that's the newer body style, but 2005-2007 is also a possibility. Although I really liked that Allison transmission for towing, I'm sure I can live with their standard tranny since I don't tow as far as I used to. I definitely need a 4x4.

So I guess my next question is how does the Ford F250 and Dodge 2500 compare to this vehicle, assuming we're looking around the same year. Should a Tundra be in this conversation? My buddy has a newer one (I'm guessing 2010) and it's pretty damn nice!

Just throwing this out there. You can get a Chevy Avalanche 2500. Comes with the 8.1 and rides like a dream. You can fold down the midgate if you need an 8ft bed. They only made the 2500 version up to 2005 though.

Oh yeah, forgot about the Av's with the 8.1L, that would be a good truck too!

Although I recall remarking that the Avalanche was the ugliest vehicle since the Pacer when it first came out, I will give it another look because it sounds very practical and I'm all about that! Searching Craigslist now!

Dave,

The only thing to consider about a dodge is the room. I have an 06 crew cab and the back is awfully small. Unless you go with a mega cab I don't think that the dodge will have the cab room that you are looking for. Just something to consider.

Dave I searched withing 100 miles of Ramona CA on autotrader for avalanche 2500s and there were a few of them.

You can get a mega cab in an 07, and the 07 was the last really good gas milage deisel engine

Thanks Patrick. I like that Megacab, so that might be an option! I'll have to give it a look.

The Avalanche is out. When we have five people and two dogs going to the river, that 5'3" bed is not going to work for us.

I think this is a super cool setup for a promotional type vehicle. I'd guess the used market, compared to a pickup, for plain white vans isn't great either so you could take advantage of that.

I had a 6.0 in a 2005 2500HD, and it sucked. didn't have enough torque to pull itself up a hill, much less a 4,000# boat. Then it got 6 mpg doing it.

The people that say diesels aren't worth the money have never owned one. They think of any excuse they can to tell you not to buy one. I've had several, and I've also had several gas burners. I know what works the best for me, and it's not a gas burner.... My diesel gets better mpg empty then most 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's, then when I tow, I still get just as good as they do when they're empty. My last truck, an 08 1/2 ton GMC with 5.3L got about 8-9 on its best day towing, and burned a ton more fuel because it couldnt maintain speed on the interstate.

Maintenance isn't that much more, like some haters say. Fuel filter every 6-7000 miles ($30), Oil/filter every 4-5000 miles ($75). That's it. Not any more maintenance involved. Some guy stood in my shop saying it cost $300 to change oil in a diesel. Until you own one, I'm sure your misinformed.

After owning an 8.1, you may be disapointed with anything less!
I've had mine 10 years and 210,000 miles. I've driven my brothers 6.0, and it's alright, but not even close to the power of the big block. And the mileage is barely any better, (actually worse when towing) The Ford V-10 is the next best choice.
Should be plenty of used big blocks and V-10s out there with gas prices what they are right now...

What about the fact that his normal trip to the launch is only 1/2 miles with no regular long trips? Aren't turbo diesels prone to short turbo life when the engine is driven a lot without reaching operating temperature? Something about moisture buildup that never gets "cooked" off resulting in corrosion and then complete turbo failure. I know that kind of driving isn't especially great for any vehicle but supposedly especially bad for turbos.

I was interested in a diesel when I bought my last truck but all the ones in my price range were the Ford 6.0Ls which had a pretty spotty reliability rating. I know that some people are super happy with their 6.0Ls but there are a lot of known, common, and somewhat major issues with them and the number of low mileage, low priced used ones that I was seeing made me really suspicious. The older ones with the trued and true 7.3Ls that I was able to locate all had crazy high mileage. Also the above turbo lifespan issue concerned me since I only commute 8 miles and don't drive at all most weekends.

EDIT: Never mind, I reread the thread and saw where he makes regular 4 hour trips with no boat in tow. That should alleviate the above concern, if it's even true, for his application.

The exact reason I'd stay away from a fUrd. There's gonna be something with everything either way. Don't know what the budget is, but any of the Duramax's from 06 and up will be good. The 06's had the LBZ and auto 6-speed Allison. They put out 360hp and 650 ft. lbs. With a small tune and some trans upgrades those numbers go WAY up, for not much money. The LBZ's are starting to dip down to around $22-$25,000, more for less mileage ones.

for what its' worth....coming fr. on 08 tahoe with the 5.3 and moving to an escalade with the 6.2 and 6 speed...towing is nite a day diff. and my overall daily driving mpg is very similar.

Vortec Max
 

I know I am late but I have a 2007 1500 Silverado VMAX. 6.0 Liter with active fuel management. It has been flawless and tows well. I average 16mpg and about 10-11 while towing our 21v. It's a great package overall. 2007 did not have a 6 speed tranny and/or a 6.2 in the 1/2 tons as previously mentioned but the 2008 and up models did offer that. Good luck!

I'm seriously looking at a 2003 F250 with a V10. Does anyone have any feedback on this engine as far as reliability goes? I know that it pulls really well.

Expect single-digit fuel economy numbers and a lot less torque then you'd get from a diesel.

Why are you so against a diesel truck? Seriously, I've towed with at least 12 different combinations from 1/2 ton gas burners, 3/4 ton gas burners, Ford diesels, Chevy diesels, and a few others in between. As for daily driving, towing, anything, the one i like the best is my current truck - 2006 2500HD LBZ Duramax. I get 18 hand calculated on teh interstate, about 14-15 around town, 13-14 towing my 5500-6000# boat, and never lose speed on an incline on the highway. The 6.0L gas burner I had in an 05 2500HD could be going 80 towing until you hit a hill or incline. By the time I got to the top, it was about 40-50. The same hill with my Duramax doesn't even phase it. Maybe a 5 mph loss, that's it. Until you PHYSICALLY tow something with one of these trucks, you'll never see the beauty of it. You'll get all kinds of different information on here but the only way to find out is if you do it for yourself.

I just traded my 06 Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Crew Cab for a 2011 1500 4x4 crew cab. I too don't tow very far and the 6.0 that I had in that truck did not seem to have much better towing power than the 5.3 I have now. The gas milage is a HUGE difference though. The 2500 I got a BEST EVER of 13.5 on the highway, usually average 11mpg combined, and 7-9 mpg towing the 24SSV. My new truck with the 5.3 gets an average of 15mpg mostly city driving and 20+ highway no towing, not sure yet about towing mpg, have not looked.

If you are going to be towing short distances only, get the 5.3 in a 1500 sized truck. It will be better all around than a 2500 with a 6.0l, but if you really want/need the 2500... get a diesel!

Same thing with my 6.0 2500HD, not much better then the 5.3 that replaced it.

Depending on what 8.1L he had it may have actually had higher tow rating than the Duramax. When the 8.1L gets rolling, it's a beast.

On the V10 you should try for either a late 2005 or preferably a 2006 so that you get the Torqshift 5R110 and the 3 valve heads. Both were huge improvements.

The Torqshift 5R110 is way, way better than the old four speed and is actually a six speed automatic.

The Torqshift 5-speed 5R110 automatic transmission replaced the 4-speed in the 2003 model year truck with 6.0 L diesel engine. The TorqShift design in fact has six forward ratios, but only five are advertised, with the 'hidden' gear only used in extreme cold weather. The TorqShift 1st to 5th gear ratios are 3.11, 2.22, 1.55, 1.00, and 0.71:1. It also utilizes an alternate 4th gear, overdrive on 2nd gear of the 3 speed automatic component (0.72 x 1.55), that is 1.10:1 that is used under cold start conditions to aid engine and transmission warm up. On the TorqShift, once the Tow/Haul mode is activated it can help increase a driver's control when towing large loads up and down steep grades and automatically minimizes shifts and maximizes available torque. Upon descent, the Tow/Haul mode utilizes engine braking to help extend brake life and improve driver control. An adaptive shift function monitors the TorqShift's performance over its lifetime, and adjusts shift pressures in real time to assure consistent shift feel and compensate for wear. For ease of maintenance, the TorqShift's oil filter is a spin-off style, mounted on the passenger-side exterior of the transmission. Also the TorqShift's larger fluid lines and a larger transmission oil cooler help to assure cooler operating temperatures, even under the most demanding conditions.

The 2V V10 usually is rated at 310 horsepower (230 kW) and 425 ft·lbf (576 N·m) of torque, while the 3V V10 is usually 362 hp (270 kW) and 457 ft·lbf (620 N·m) of torque. That may not seem much, but coupled with the new tranny it makes all the difference.

Unloaded my 2006 F250 with stock 4:10 gears averages 15 mpg towing my boat, logs or nothing at all. It is a beast.

I almost forgot... all of my V10's (I have had 6, including the two that I currently have) have been very, very reliable. I haven't had one single problem on any of them. The only thing that you have to do is to leave the spark plugs alone! Don't touch them! If you need a new spark plug for some reason go directly to a Ford dealership and let them deal with it. The V10 has a tendency to blow spark plugs out of the aluminium heads. If you over torque them they have a good chance of blowing out. The fix is very expensive.

I have a couple buddies with Ford Van Spotsmobile conversions and the V-10, awesome vehicles, and very dependeble engines.

Other than possibly spitting a spark plug and dismal fuel economy, which you were no stranger to with the 8.1 under the hood, they are solid engines.
I had one in an 02? F350 work truck. Gave me no problems up to about 150k mi when the company sold it,other than it would pass everything but a gas pump.
If you're still leaning towards 2500 trucks and want the Alli, I'd give serious consideration to a 06/07 classic LBZ Duramax. In my experience, the only added cost besides purchase price (which you'll likely collect most of on resale down the road) is oil changes. But if you can do your own oil changes, you can get by for around $50-60 per oil change by buying filters in bulk and oil on sale. That includes a new fuel filter and spin on trans filter at every change, about 8-9000 mi intervals.
Yes, the engine peripherals are more expensive, but I've seen alot of 200k mi Dmaxes with original injectors, turbo and CP3. The rest of the truck costs the same to repair as your old truck.

I had no trouble towing 5 hours trips with my 2007 Silverado 1500 with the 5.3. Was it ideal? No, but it worked for me. I got about 11 mpg when towing and 17+ unloaded. I would either go with that, or the 8.1L if I was going to stick with a GM gas truck.

I just emailed you Dave...

What did you end up doing?

Still looking. Right now my top pick is my neighbor's immaculate 2003 F250 V10 with 80,000 for $15,000. I just can't find a better deal than that. However, considering the cost of gas, I'm now looking at diesels in the early 2000's from Chevy and Ford (7.3 only). There are a lot of trucks out there, but very few good deals!

The diesel in the Chevy prior to the duramax is not a very good engine, you are better off with the gas engine.

Crew Cab and 4x4 only? I would look nationally, specially with leasing and fleet companies that sell their return stock. You should be able to find something better than that, unless it's a special package like a Harley Edition or something.

I'm looking at this one tonight. They have another 2007 with 80K for $14K.

If this one is still available when I go up next month I will probably buy it. It originally sold for over $41K.

What year did they start the Duramax? Oh, I'm also considering a 6.0 gasser in the Chevy.

Yes, must be a crew cab 4x4!

The only D'max's worth having are 04 and up, or LLY and most definitely LBZ. The earlier duramax's had injector issues.

They fixed the injectors in the '03 duramax under a recall campaign I believe.

All the LB7 Dmax engines 01-04 ended up with the additional warranty. 7yr/200k although most all are out of that warranty period.
Those problems were all over the board from some that had 3 sets of injectors by 150k mi and others with no problems. They're a pain to replace on the LB7s because you have to go into the valve covers.
I had an 02 that had ZERO problems up to 100k when I sold it.
Unless you could get a clean LB7 that appeared to be one of the "good ones" and save enough on the purchase over a LLY or LBZ to cover a set of injectors, I'd look for a newer model.
The 06 LLY was the 1st 6speed Alli and is only a tune away from being a LBZ all the internal engine upgrades are the same. And the 06-07 LBZ's are solid. I'd look for one of those just to get the extra gear because I do alot of empty highway driving.

I thought the LBZ was the first 6-spd? LLY was continued over into 06, but they later changed to LBZ, and I'd swear the LLY no matter what year had a 5 spd (auto, of course).

The only problem is that most people selling LBZ's know what they've got, so the price is pretty firm. THey're well worth the money though.... 360hp, 650ft lbs. - STOCK. Add a programmer, hollow out the intake, EGR blocker plate, fingerstick, a trans kit, and 4 or 5" exhaust, and it'll be fast as hell and still get around 20-21 mpg on the highway.

fingerstick?

Early 06's were still called the LLY but they had the 6sp Alli and all the other LBZ changes but still had the LLY tune, so a little less power in stock form.

Gasser for life...even though I actually test drove a diesel today! :) I couldn't pass up this deal. 2003 Ford F-350 (I can't get away from 1-tons) V10 with 25,000 miles on it. Not a scratch on it. I don't know how this guy kept it in this condition for eight years, but after test driving this, I was spoiled and everything else felt like a clunker. I used to have a 2000 F-350, so I guess I haven't come very far! :)

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Nice!

what kind of mpg's does that get ?

I'm guessing it's right around the same as my last truck...10-11 mpg. It's got 4:30 gears, so that should help alleviate the added strain of the big tires.

Have you towed the boat yet? and did you get the hi-lift adapter thingy?

No hi-lift or adapter. I'm going to see if I can change the tire with my current bottle jack. I don't plan to do a whole lot of off-roading, so I'm not sure that's something for me. I haven't towed the boat yet either. I will report back when I do.