Who do you think is pushing the progression of wakeboarding the hardest and most effectively-boat companies or board companies? My vote is for boat manufacturers hands down.

My vote is the riders

I think it all depends on the riders desire to progress. You can have the best wake boat in the world but you are not probably not going to progress if the desire and motivation (self or from friends/other riders) are not there. Just my $.02.

I think both are doing a great job with the progression, but in different ways. A lot of the newer boat manufacutrers are making good boats cheaper, thus allowing a more economical entry. But the board manufacturers are make better and safer products as well to keep up their end of the progression. For example, bindings have come a long way just in the past 5 years. The bindings today are a lot safer than earlier versions. So, I think neither is doing more than the other, and they are complimenting each other well.

well i believe that other than technique, the wake is the most important part in getting good pop. but with wakes getting bigger you need to change boards so they can accomodate the bigger wakes. so if they didnt change board technology, making the wakes bigger wouldnt do anything.

I do apologize for not including the riders-of course they are the backbone. It just amazes me how boat companies have embraced the marketing possibilities of wake specific boats to not only continually give us bigger and better wakes, but a more comfortable environment to watch the show in. For anyone with a slalom skiing background-or wakeboarders who have been riding in the 8+ year range, gone the days of a low rider ski boat with barely enough room for 2 observers to sit comfortably. I'm definitely not knocking the board/binding companies either. I don't know how much more they can do-the biggest obstacle seems to find a way for us to land softer and physically remain in this sport for the long haul as the wakes continue to grow. I hope I can remain in the game and still ride hard as my kids grow. My biggest fear is that I will only be able to tell my kids what dad "used to do". Like they'd ever believe it!

If you are talking on the pro level, I would say the riders push each others, think about it 900s have been going down for awhile now, and Parks and Kenney stuck 10's on older board designs behind older boats wakes. I haver also seen Randall go huge off of small wakes with short pylons. Of course everybody that I just listed are exceptional riders. For the rest of us, I think it is a combination of technique, wakes and gear and I would put technique at the top of the list.

Byrd your kidding me right "making better boats cheaper??"boats have gone up considerably,my exact boat model with almost identical options has gone up 8k in five years..All the while all these new boats are driving my depreciation down more then ever..everytime they release a new model the last years model gets cheaper and the used ones take heavy losses .. <BR> <BR>theres nothing innovative with the new boats this year then five years ago other then easier to fill and empty ballast and some throttle and tranny upgrades that iMO arent neccessarily better just different and another reason to raise prices.. <BR> <BR>Riders push this sport and not really Pros either they get most of their stuff free so those of us consumers get handed down that debt in order for the pros to ride and promote the things WE buy. <BR> <BR>SO IMO the general wakeboarder usually the 25-50 yrs olds buying up all the boats,equipment and gear are pushing the sport since we are enabling the manufacturers to raise prices on this stuff for R&amp;D costs and have the revenue to develop more equipment. <BR> <BR>If we didnt buy the stuff ,ride it like it and then believe all the hype on the new stuff and run out and trader up every year then there would be no money to pay the pros, all the new ads,and the R&amp;D money needed to progress the boats and equipment.. <BR> <BR>Its takes all of 30 minutes to fill up a 98 model inboard malibu,mastercraft,supra or whatever old "ski" with ballast of anykind and the wakes were quite large.So all the boat manufaturers are doing is dressing up their boats with tons of options and bling and making us feel its innovative.PP,hidden ballast,two speed trannys,wireless throttles,push start ignition,roll in racks,fancy towers with lights and stereos are all creature comforts IMO and not progressing the sport. <BR> <BR>Please dont argue the the new hulls on the new boats are advancements because that NEW MC Xstar wake isnt much to write home about especially since the old x2,now the x1 has a better wake for 20k less..same for the new 23/24ft boats good wakes but not 60/90k better .Is the new Mailbu so much better then the old vride/vlx ,NO not for me is it nice sure but progression ,no. <BR> <BR>Now if i had to stick picking between the two id say the boards/bindings are better,slightly,at least they dont cost much more and have some smoother landing ,bigger popping asnd softer feel to them so they have progressed the sport for amatuer level riders giving them a better chance to progress .. <BR> <BR>anyway im rambling and giving myself a haedache ;) <BR> <BR>Without us there would be no pro tour or new awesome equipment..Thats my oppinion and im sticking to it....!! <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <BR> <BR>

very interesting points bill

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>Please dont argue the the new hulls on the new boats are advancements because that NEW MC Xstar wake isnt much to write home about<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Wake is arguable and it matters on referents but from what the little info I gathered from the pros on this site is that X-Star or similar to the X-Star wake is what the pros prefer.(Longer and rampier transitions) <BR> <BR> <BR>I completely agree tho it is us that push the sport the most.

It's the binding lube.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" border=0>

Bill is 100% right.

So if we didn't want better stuff they wouldn't make it, right?

Have you ridden the new X-Star Bill?

Kevin <BR> <BR>yes i have but not on a daily basis and not always weighed the same..However i have ridden it five times and the wake was way too rampy and wide for my taste..you also had to wait longer before leaving the wake,a lot longer then a normal boat to find the pop of you would bne casing the wake real hard..the wake looked clean and big but it was soo different the traditional great wakes that it would take a long time of riding on a regular basis to learn and enjoy the wake,90 k makes it not worth the wait IMO.. <BR> <BR>not saying its a bad boat just for 90k the wake hull wasnt revolutionary.. <BR> <BR>i had the same oppinion of the 23ft lsv malibu although with 4k of weight in it the wake was a tad better then the X but id rather have the VLX or X2 now X1.... <BR> <BR>why do you ask?

I was just seeing why you didn't like it. I hear the same thing a lot. Yea that old X-Star/X2/X1 wake sure still kicks ass, im getting used to that new X-Star though.

I say, if anything besides the riders, the boards somewhat push the sport. Also, isn't the X1 old X Star hull something like ten years old anyway???

The good hulls of 95 (SAN210, X-1, V-ride) are all still amongst the best hulls of today. The good boards of today are IMO better than the best boards of 95. <BR> <BR>As an aside more and more I think that the better a riders technique the more they prefer rampier wakes. Steep wakes tend to hide crappy technique and sloppy progressive edge. I like steep, booty wakes, which by the above reasoning means I have a lot of work to do. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Ralph on February 05, 2006)

i think everything pushes every thing. boats come out that are better which leads to new and better boards which leads to newer boats which leads to new boards and so on. the riders fit in all of this by kickin a** with whatever they got