For about the same price, I can get a brand new, just released 2009 Epic 23v or a used 2005 or 2006 Mastercraft X-Star (fully loaded, 120-180 hours). <BR> <BR>What are the pros and cons of buying one over the other? I would think that the used X-Star is less risky. Because the price already reflects depreciation, it will probably hold its value more. The 2009 Epic 23v has great new innovative features and great wakes, but the long term quality is unknown. The 2008 23v's are already in the $45-50k range. <BR> <BR>Which would you buy as primarily a wakeboarding boat?

YOu are right about the depreciated value and also the long term longevity of the X-star. <BR> <BR>I am sure the epic will be a good boat for years to come also. Engine is fully backed .... that is the most important

There are a ton of non current and used Xstars out there. I'm not so sure on the resale value. <BR>IMO I would go with the new epic I have never read or heard anything bad about Epic full warranty and a brand new boat that's my pic.

what kind of wake do you like is the question?

I see this question here all the time on different brands. I will pick the new boat with a new warranty and up to date technology every time givin that both boats have great wakes.

+1 I like new stuff myself.

I would probably go with the X-star...MC has been around for a long time.

Epic wake is the best you can get... no need to add stereo, ballast, anything... <BR> <BR>Xstar needs those things to be great

the wakes on those 2 machines are completely on opposite sides of the spectrum. <BR> <BR>one is wide and rampy, the other narrow and steep. <BR> <BR>If you do not know what wake you like, go demo... if you don't care about the wake characteristics, then go with the Epic. Its brand new, 4k lbs of ballast, and has a big block.

Thats a pretty hard decision to make. I love our X-star, but then again I love our friends Epic. I think if it came down to it, I think I'd go new boat.

<a href="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/696442.html?1242688551" target="_blank">http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/8/696442.html?1242688551</a> <BR> <BR>^^^ id buy that boat right there in a minute.^^^^

Buy new - Epic. <BR> <BR>Feels funny saying that when I ride the majority of the time behind a 31 year old boat.

Epic, all the way. But I'm biased.

Can I assume there is an Epic dealer to do the warranty work in your area? If so I would probably lean new as well. Not to mention I like having stuff no one else has. Even though I am a MC owner I think these smaller boat companies have the ability to make changes and updates quicker. One of my favorite boats is MB just no dealer in our state.

Epic, don't even think about it, just get a Epic.

These are my two favorite wakes I've ever ridden. I agree with john, I think it should come down to what kind of wake you like more. They are both INCREDIBLE, but one is much bigger without any extra time or money spent on ballast (Epic). The X-Star can have a legendary wake but you will have to have it slammed to get there. Epic's wake is almost strangely thin for a boat of that size but there's an easy fix for that (ride longer line). Until I had ridden behind a 23V i would've said X-Star all the way but I would actually go with the 23V now.

IMO go x-star it has got boat of the year for a reason for the last 5 years

+1 for the Epic...The X-Star is a nice boat and has much more 'bling' &amp; nicer fit and finish (imo), but as far as wake (both surf and wakeboarding), functionality, convenience, ease of cleaning, and no sacrificing of storage...Epic, HANDS DOWN...

MC/EPIC... which of the two will be out of business in two years?

GD <BR>Why dont you tell us.....

i would say go with an x-star. purely for the resale value

I think this is the funniest thread I've seen here, Epic vs MC? Hello! anyone home!

I would go with the X-star. Mastercraft is well established and will be here for years to come. It is still too early to tell with Epic. Hopefully, they will continue to grow, but the economy is brutal right now.

Here is a brand new 2007 MC X-star for 52K. I would get that. <BR> <BR><a href="http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2007-MASTERCRAFT-X-STAR-90429042" target="_blank">http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2007-MASTERCRAFT-X-STAR-90429042</a> <BR> <BR>If you are in the same price range for 05 X-stars and new Epics, then the price on your X-star is way high, or the Epic is a killer deal. Check Boattrader.com. There are at least a dozen 06 and newer stars for less than 50K. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by talltigeguy on May 23, 2009)

thanks. we're going with the MC if we can get it for the price thast we want.

Comparing an X-Star to an Epic is like apples to oranges....completely different. <BR> <BR>If you have any concerns about Epic sticking around in this economy, don't worry. They have excellent backing, no carry overs and there are a boat load(pun intended) of 23E orders.

I like both boats. But am I the only one that hates that squared off nose on the Epic. It is so ugly.

tuneman, how many 23E orders do you have in? I really doubt they have that many sold orders for that model. Come on.....$120k plus!! Unless they are going to Dubai. Do the math, there isn't that much benefit to spend anothe $60K for it. If you ran it 150 hours a year, you're only talking about $12-1300 in gas so who in their right mind is going to spend the additional money unless they just want to be different and throw it away. Replace those batteries in a few years and see what they cost. Just being real, that is all. <BR> <BR>Jack, you aren't alone on the squared nose. Sit in the front with ballast and when the driver slows the boat to pick up a downed rider, you will get SOAKED!! Like a tidal wave coming over the bow, and that is from going 25 down to idle, just like you would with any other boat.

TKO, They have many orders. Several in the states and many more overseas. Particularily in Germany, where electric boats can run for free on certain lakes. But if you have a gas boat, they charge you almost $100k a year to put in. I'm not making this up. <BR> <BR>We've had three people up front, full ballast, and never once dipped the nose. <BR> <BR>So, TKO, stop trying to bash Epic all of the time. I'm a mechanical engineer and am picky about how people design things. All wakeboard boats have faults and Epic has it's faults too. But I'm not going to post something negative about a boat unless it's a real problem and it's not seen on other boats. I OWN an Epic and I don't have anything negative to post about it yet. I've seen the nose dip on virtually every wakeboard boat out there when there are people up front.

dude you totally have to get the epic because it is so damn cool, its eco friendly (not that im a hippy or something), the speakers in the back, its quit, you spend half the price you would going out for the year than the gas boats, and it throws a damn good wake

The Hybrid Epic is 150k dollars, he is not talking about that one and there is nothing eco friendly about a regular epic.<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/crazy.gif" border=0>

I really like the nose. It looks mean...and it is unique.

EPIC....