well i started working on this trick the last two times i have gone out and am having trouble getting it done correctly. I tried to 20 of them today and everyone one felt the exact same, all like scarecrows. i mean i am going for the mute grab but once i have the grab and throw the handle over my head it feels identical to a crow, And i would ask the people in the boat but no one i ride with knows the difference or if i am doing it correctly. it just feels as though i am going too inverted. not sure how to change this.

well im not an expert on ole 5's and to be honest i cant even do them but they basically are a crow without a handle pass, so im sure if your doing the whole thing without a handle pass and grabing you must be doing it correctly, watch some of the videos, they all look like scarecrow... out the back door a bit without the pass. it makes me wonder why i havnt tried it yet. well good luck, but it sounds like everything is going good.

ummm...first of all, there is no handle pass on a crow. maybe you were thinking crow mobe? <BR> <BR>anyway....ryan: i've had people tell me that my melan grabbed crow looks a lot like an ole 5 so i guess i'm having the exact opposite problem as you. i do know that i tend to open my shoulders to the boat a bit too much, which might be what you should do for the ole. also...and i might get flamed for this...but think whirly and try to whip the handle over your head like a lasso...make sense? <BR> <BR>good luck....

yea i see where you are coming from, I acually stopped trying doing it with the grab and just do a normal off 5 and just ole it around... When i started doing it that way, it felt like i was doing the off 5 correctly and throwing in the ole spin. so i figured that i will do it without the grab for a while until i feel comfortable enough with it to start throwing the grab back in there. but i can say that the sensation of throwing it over your head does feel similar to my whirly's

sorry about the mixed confusion i ment without switching from your leading hand to your back hand.