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-   -   Backroll help for an old guy. (http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=499821)

whitlecj 09-11-2007 4:52 PM

Hey guys. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me on backrolls. I basically gave up wakeboarding a few years ago for wakeskating and recently got the itch for the big air again. Here is a link to a couple of attempts. Any pointers you can give me to help me pull this off would be great. I tried probably 15 over the last few days and get close but no cigar. My body is feeling the affects so I figured I better get some tips before trying anymore. Thanks. <BR> <BR><a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8239952747043014257&amp;hl=en" target="_blank">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8239952747043014257&amp;hl=en</a>

kingskrew 09-11-2007 6:23 PM

You're backing off your edge coming int the wake. It's very important that you stay on edge through the top of the wake. If you maintain a good edge and proper body position you can cut out 1/2 as far as you are in the video and have no problem with the rotation or clearing the wake. <BR> <BR>Next time out, really concentrate on keeping that handle in, and taking a nice easy progressive edge to the top of the wake. Pop off of the top of the wake and look over your lead shoulder to spot the landing. Good luck! <BR> <BR>-Steve

whitlecj 09-11-2007 6:29 PM

Thanks Steve. Does the rotation look okay. It looks a little off to me like I am getting a little on the wrong plane by looking up and back or something. Not sure though

jpboarder 09-11-2007 6:34 PM

I got a few pointers for you. It looks like you are letting off your edge a little bit at the wake, when in fact the strongest part of your edge should be when you hit the wake. Another thing you seem to not be doing is extending your legs at the peak of the wake. You need to take a mellow edge into the wake, and then when you are close to the wake really start to build that edge. Hold that strong edge all the way though the wake, and then combine that edge with extended legs at the peak of the wake, and then of course wait for the pop and look over your lead shoulder. Another thing I noticed was that you kept the handle in when you were edging toward the wake, but when you started your rotation you let it out a little from your body. Try to make sure that handle stays in, because it will make you roll faster, rather than if you let it out it will actually slow down the roll. Just give those things a try and see how you do. Hope this helps.

g_anders 09-11-2007 9:17 PM

What is your speed

whitlecj 09-12-2007 8:55 AM

21.5. I was actually riding at 65 ft back on those attemps but I usually run 21.5 at 70 ft.

jdwake1 09-12-2007 10:46 AM

When approching the wake most of your weight on your front foot and as you are riding up you switch the weight to your back foot which molds your board to the wake and scoops <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> hope that helps!!!

jdwake1 09-12-2007 10:46 AM

When approaching the wake most of your weight on your front foot and as you are riding up you switch the weight to your back foot which molds your board to the wake and scoops <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> hope that helps!!!

g_anders 09-12-2007 9:05 PM

what is the census on what speed is the best? My buddy likes the speed at 17 mph

wake_pirate 09-12-2007 10:38 PM

From one old guy to another, looks pretty good. I'm trying them this weekend. I tried front rolls &amp; cant seem to get my launch / flip timing down. But it did get me over my fear of fliping. I'm gonna try backrolls cause they look more natural. Keep it up, keep us posted on your progess.

whitlecj 09-13-2007 7:51 AM

Thanks for all the comments guys. Its amazing how much you can see when you video yourself on these tricks. I kept telling myself the whole time I was trying them to make sure I edged through the wake and thought I was doing that. But as the video shows, I am definately coming off edge it looks like. <BR> <BR>I also feel like I am over-exagerating the looking up over my lead shoulder. Should I keep my eyes focused a little more towards the boat? It looks like in the videos I have watched that the riders are looking more towards the boats rather than up over their shoulder and are just moving their head to their rear shoulder. <BR> <BR>I am pretty beat up from all the attempts last weekend so I am going to take it easy this weekend and gear up for next. Like Marc, I am finally over my fear of going upside down. I have tried a couple of tantrums (before I started the backroll) but could not keep my eyes open (out of fear I guess). I may give them ago next weekend too as it seems to be a much more natural flip. What do you guys think? Thanks again for all the help.

rourker 09-13-2007 1:29 PM

Haven't tried the tantrum, but I'm thinking that will be my next invert. The only hesitation I have is that it appears that you have to throw the trick more as opposed to the backroll where I feel like the wake is throwing me. Am I wrong? I guess I don't know what the pop is supposed to feel like in a tantrum. <BR> <BR>Any thoughts out there?

rourker 09-13-2007 1:31 PM

Just watched the video. Keep the handle pinnned to your waist on the rotation until you get a feel fore overrotating vs. underrotating.

rourker 09-13-2007 1:47 PM

ok, I watched the video a few more times. You are definitely looking over your back shoulder. This is causing your board to swing over and around you on a different axis as opposed to the boarding traveling over head on a vertical axis. The good news is that you are there. You are letting off your edge a little, but you'll still make it around and across with your approach. <BR> <BR>All you need to do is look up and throw your head back a little vs. looking over your lead shoulder. Good luck. I'd guess you are 3 attempts from being money on your backroll!

holycow 09-13-2007 3:12 PM

A backroll is as simple as doing a heelside wake to wake jump. The only thing you do is you carve up and away. What I mean is you carve a "J" with your board and hang on for the ride. Keep the handle on your lead hip. If you don't you will naturally want to land revert. Spot your landing. You want to have a strong edge when approaching the wake. No raley cuts. <BR>Yes, I throw a back roll and I am a girl. = )Hope you take a chick's advice. Take care.

wake_pirate 09-13-2007 11:21 PM

Sweet info, esp from a girl. I'm riding 2marrow &amp; will report back w/ progress &amp; pics.

whitlecj 09-14-2007 6:52 AM

Thanks Seth and Maria. Seth, I thought my rotation was a little wierd and thanks for looking at it and helping me. Maria, I can definately take a chicks advice if it will help me stomp this thing down. I tweaked my back a little on the last attempt last weekend and it is still hurting pretty good, so I will probably get working on them again next weekend. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks so much for all your help

wake_pirate 09-15-2007 12:02 PM

Well I tried it 3 times before my head started throbing. heres the video link <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Es0t__zRgc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Es0t__zRgc</a>

rourker 09-16-2007 7:09 AM

You've got the rotation taken care and you are rolling on axis. Just need a little more speed remember to edge up through the wake by stand tall w/ your legs to resist the wake. You are trying to throw it too early so remember to take the trick up, first. Based on the video, I'd recommend bringing the line in 5 feet or so to help you get wake to wake on few, then you can concentrate on taking them bigger once you have the muscle memory.

rmack 09-16-2007 3:58 PM

I'm not an expert, but it looks like you start your rotation with your hips instead of your head and shoulders. I have tried a few (unable to land them still), but we have a few guys who can land them (k9fxr) and they start their rotation with the head and shoulders. The board will follow. You've got the hardest part done though, TRYING THE TRICK. GOOD LUCK!

wake_pirate 09-16-2007 10:08 PM

Not trying to hijack, but is Seth &amp; Tuna addressing me or Chris or both??

rourker 09-17-2007 7:55 AM

Marc- My last post addressing your vid. I was commenting earlier on Chris's video. You've got the roll down, just need to take it further up the wake and stand tall into the pop another split second. If you do, you'll find that you'll get thrown into the roll instead of trying to throw it. Plus, you'll have more time to spot the landing. Just tell yourself, I'm taking this one huge, and go for it!!!

wake_pirate 09-17-2007 9:34 AM

Seth, thanks for the input. I went out on sunday &amp; rode behind a Natique that had a bigger wake than the Sanger from Friday &amp; I phyced myself out so bad I only attempted it twice. I know I need more speed, more pop. I'll try it some more when i'm back on the my buds Sanger. Thanks for the input.

rmack 09-18-2007 8:51 AM

Marc, talking more to chris, yours looks pretty good, just need more speed and wait a little bit longer for pop.

wake_pirate 09-18-2007 12:05 PM


livigno 09-19-2007 3:05 AM

Some advice from another old guy (I was born in 1971): <BR> <BR>Marc, you don't need more speed. Cut out, then drift back in slowly. Increase your edge on your approach and cut all the way through the wake. Use a mellow edge for this trick, just edge progressively. In the video, you jump way too early initiating your rotation much too early. Also, no sccoping and hucking needed here! <BR> <BR>Here are the steps in the right order: cut out no further than 15 feet. Keep your handle in tight and close to your lead hip (think about rotating around the handle). Cut in mellow, but strictly progressively. Cut all the way through the wake. Stand very tall at the very top of the wake by really extending your legs all the way (think: straight up pop). AFTER your take off (never during your take off) initiate your rotation by looking over your lead shoulder. Try to use this "recipe" and you'll land them consistently in no time. Oh yeah, all this should have a relaxed, mellow feel to it. No hectic, just smooth, controlled, enjoyable and safe riding. This is key to get the right pop and the right rotation for clean and soft landings. Good luck!

livigno 09-19-2007 3:11 AM

I forgot one thing: It really helps to let go with your rear hand just before your landing (not before you've finished at least two thirds of the rotation). This will lead your board into the right direction and prevent you from getting pulled to revert or smacking your face. But please don't get me wrong here, you really can land this trick easily with two hands on the handle. It's more about personal preference.

wake_pirate 09-21-2007 4:56 PM

Thanks I'll try that nest time I'm out. I was watching Chris's video &amp; the flip part is after he leaves the wake, which makes me think I need more speed. I do see the "stand tall" part of it. It looks like the trick is split into 2 parts, the HS jump, then the flip. am I right?

rourker 09-23-2007 7:48 AM

Not sure I'd think of it that way until you have the trick nailed. As you progress you can wait a little more on the rotation and take the trick a lot bigger, but for now focus on the load and release off the wake and into the rotation. Don't think of this like a 360's pause before the rotation. The pop into the rotation should feel more seamless.

wake_pirate 09-24-2007 8:55 AM

GO IT, try not to over-think it.

rourker 09-25-2007 10:37 AM

Marc- I see your profile says you ride a Player. How do you like the board? Have your ridden the Natural? Just curious of the contrast if you have.

whitlecj 09-25-2007 11:10 AM

Wow. Lots of post here now. I have not got back on the backroll yet as I bought a new boat last week and I am trying to get used to the wake. I will probably get back on it this weekend. Thanks for all the additional tips.

wake_pirate 09-26-2007 5:51 AM

I love the Player, I ride the 143 w/o fins. Its loose &amp; forgiving. Its really made me progress alot faster. I've only ridden the Natural 1 time. I have a couple buddys the ride em &amp; swear by it. Since the Natural is a thinner board, it needs a little more speed to keep it out of the water. I would have to ride the Natural more to see if I'd change. I'm riding pretty good so far, so I might just leave things alone for now.

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