Okay so I dont actually hate wakesurfing, in fact its crazy fun. But I am offically retiring from surfing, not going to let anyone surf on my boat ever again. As everone knows wakesurfing is the biggest rage on the lakes right now (at least in MN), every one and their mom is doing it. Which is great, I love promoting any wakesports. <BR> <BR>BUTTTTTTTT - Here's my issue, WTF are they out there surfing for on BUTTER afternoons destroying the whole lake. Its is worse than TUBERS, at least tubers get a whiplash a few times and quit. I went riding last friday morning early 6am, by 10 there were 5 people on 5 different boats surfing, just destroying the butter. This was a butter day where the whole lake was just perfect, just a mirror, but it became roller central because of the stupid surfers. I am getting pissed all over again just typing this. So I guess where I am going with this rant is that wakesurfer at worse than tubers, hell I am starting to think that wakesurfing is the new tubing. Damn, I am pissed. Hope no one else has to deal with this. <BR> <BR>Sorry for the Rant...Need to get that out. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by andy_nintzel on July 01, 2009)

dont worry buddy...you're not alone...a 2 mile long slough of delta mirror can quickly become a rolled out unrideable body of water with one boat surfing. on a windy day when we're huntin for water there will be 2-3 boats surfing in the only rideable water on the entire delta...WTF...

EXACTLY! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! YES I AM YELLING!

It's like back in the day when everyone was slolom skiing, and those "Damn Wakeboarders" started to show up with their big wakes. It's something that we all have to put up with. I'm a Wake Surfer myself, but try to be considerate of the boarders around me. I know its frustrating at times but.....?

I hear you on the anger, but you can't rag on them for being out in the afternoon no matter what the water conditions are. The way I look at it, 7-9 i better not come across any yahoos on the water or I get annoyed, 9-12 is sort of hit or miss depending on the part of the week etc., but past 12 I consider the water fair game for anyone to surf, tube, destroy or whatever.

andy, im with you. i wont allow surfing behind my boat anymore, i think its a really fun thing to do and have friends that surf. but they have respect. surfing is a windy day choppy water thing. thats the only time it should be done. for us on the delta its so bad and could be so easy. just go surf down twins or old river. leave vics to the riders. if the surfers had any respect they would go down the windy twisty slues, not vics witch is one of the most perfect spots in the world to ride WAKEBOARDS. i agree its worse than tubing with the rollers they send. if you come down let say a slue that about a mile long and a surfer is half way down it. that entire slue is f-d for a mile. or if its dived by tullies and there coming down the other side. your side will be rolled out all the way down because of the f-ing bow rollers. im with yah on this buddy. love the sport just think the true avid surfers need to show some respect. and if you have never surfed than you dont understand that its always perfect glass behind the boat.

ANDY, JR I AGREE!!!!!! <BR>surfin at Vics on the delta - I mean seriously!!!! WTF!!!!!!Are you kidding me??? <BR>NO - they must not - cause i got no one in front of me for a mile down at vics, but im still bouncin up and down from the surfer I just passed way back. <BR>you dont need good water at all to surf so GET OUT! <BR>Maybe you should post this in the wakesurfing area.

One day last week we were out trying to find a good spot on a windy day. The only glass patch we could find, of course, had 2 surf boats doing power-turns back and forth hogging it all to themselves. I mean they probably didn't know any better but it was SO frustrating. So as we vacated the area my husband drove our fully weighted down boat at 10 miles an hour beside them both and watched as their riders fell down <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> <IMG SRC="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":-)" BORDER=0> hehehe. <BR> <BR>I'm not big into wakesurfing either, but it's easier on my knee, so I'm gonna give it a shot over the next few weeks so I can atleast get in the water.My biggest issue with it is trying to find a place that won't piss anyone off.

YES! Agree NO SURFING ON VICS- PLEASE! <BR> <BR>Those rollers creep around for miles and never go away. It sucks!

waste of gas, tears up the boat and the water, anyone can do it with little effort, and it gets boring to watch. <BR> <BR>I retired it as well, mainly because it's dumb, but I've also seen it trash at least 3 transmissions.

As far as the Delta goes, We stay out of Vics, Railroad, and Twin sloughs. You will only see our ShredStixx boat in Old River,or out behind Bull Frog where it's pretty much fair game anyway.

NO SURFING ON GRANTLINE!!!!! hahaha...take that <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> old river

Im old, beatup and cant really board anymore but my kids still do. I dont care what the conditions are im surfing. Heck surfing is the only reason I bought a V-drive. So just because someone wants to cry about it messing up THERE water what I should quit having fun doing what I bought the boat for?

That's why you have to have a "secret Spot" where only you and your crew ride!

Amen, surfing behind a boat, really. Kills the water for everyone, even other wakesurfers.

Really? Another "FREAKING ___(insert group of water lovers here)___ ARE RUINING MY WATER" thread? How many more posts until we establish that none of us own the water, that everyone should be considerate, and move on?

Friends Don't Let Friends Wakesurf.

^^^^^hahaha i love it.

JrR i totaly agree with the wakesurfing on the delta total <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font> went out on monday afternooon when you guys were just pulling into the island and we come around the corner and what do you know everyone was wakesurfing and powerturning out there i took a couple hits and quit riding it was rediculous!

Don't sugar coat it Andy, tell us how you really feel <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0>

You may not EVER wakesurf behind one of our boats unless you are injured. That's all I have to say about that.

^^^ditto, or you're a hot chick. <BR> <BR>Pretty much my biggest pet peeve right now. You're not alone Andy.

"I love promoting any wakesports." <BR>Well Andy, be careful what you ask for. As for me I wish the sport would go away so I could so whatever I want whenever I want. I don't need 'advances' so it works for me. The next new sport will be tsunami creation. Your boat wake is so big everyone surfs it to the shore which then gets washed away along with the lake front homes occupied by people who don't like loud music. Kowabunga dude!

Hmmm personally I love surfing! Yes you can wakesurf in rough water, BUT you can also Wakeboard in rough water....Obivously its not as fun and is harder to land tricks. Same can be said for surfing, its much better surfing butter than blown out chop. Personally I dont surf where there is someone trying to wakeboard in great conditions. However I will NEVER get pissed at someone surfing when I'm trying to board. Thats part of the sport if you ask me. Sharing water, sometimes going out and never finding ridable water etc etc I'm just happy to be out on the boat with friends having a great day! Everyone has just as much right to the butter as I do as long as they are being safe I have zero complaints. That goes for tubers, jetskiers, water skiers etc.. Just seems like it comes off that wakeboarders think they own the water sometimes, I think we all need to think about whats really going on.

It's definitely a rough water sport for us. If the water is moderately good we'll be riding. <BR> <BR>I figure on the weekends where everyone is tubing anyway (small lake) it isn't doing any harm.

I'm not a big wakesurfer myself, but I also think it's pretty hypocritical to be telling people when they are allowed to wakesurf and that they can only do it when the water it bad. If it's one of those butter-all-day days, do they just have to come back tomorrow and hope the wind picks up? <BR> <BR>The shoe can so easily be put on the other foot where waterskiers, fisherman, bird watchers or whatever are saying the same thing about wakeboarders. We need to be extremely careful that we don't start sounding like the whiny waterskiers that had a cow when wakeboarding first came onto the scene. <BR> <BR>The water is for everyone's use; wakeboarders, wakeskaters, waterskiers, tubers, wakesurfers, paragliders, fisherman, swimmers, boaters and even the idiots that don't know why they're out there going fast and making waves. Unfortunately, if youre spot is overcrowded with any of the above (yes, even wakeboarders), it might be time to find another spot.

Riley, <BR> <BR>I have lots of secret spots, but I also have the privledge of living on a lake with my boat sitting on my dock. Doesnt get any easier to ride then just jumping in from the dock. I only ride on my lake in the early morning. I dont expect good water after noon ever. If I wanna ride in the afternoons I pull it and trailer to the secret spots. <BR> <BR>LET THE WAKEBOARDERS HAVE THE BUTTER!! Like Zach De La Rocha from Rage Against the Machine says, "We gotta take the Power Back." My crew is saying, "WE GOTTA TAKE THE BUTTER BACK!" <BR> <BR>Byron - <BR> <BR>Surf all you want, I mean no disrespect, gald you got a v-drive, like I said wakesurfing is fun, just let the Die hard early morning riders get the butter first. You can have it after noon! I honeslty structure my life around wakeboarding at crack or Dawn, it takes some serious dedication to go to bed at 9pm so I can preform on the wakestick at 6am. I honestly get up at 430am, go for a run to warm my body up, strech, then get the boat ready and ride by 6am. <BR> <BR> <BR>By Adam Van Dyke (lfadam) on Wednesday, July 01, 2009 - 10:11 am: <BR> <BR>My Guess would be like 991,312,654,856 more threads until we are done with these as you put it, "WE OWN THE WATER THREADS." <BR> <BR>You know I hate these threads too, they suck. Just a Biatchfest. But Man I was heated when I typed this. In the past when I had respect for wakesurfing I would stop surfing the second I saw some one trying to wakeboard, especially if it was in a butter spot.

I hope no one really takes this out of context. It's not like I go beat people who surf up, or any other water lovers for the matter. I dont even go yell at people who Poach my line. Lakes dont have lanes like roads, so we cannot act like. I just wanted to state that surfing destroys water. <BR> <BR> <BR>Sorry I didnt want people to start throwing mud at eachother, that was not my intent, I always regret when I stat threads like these. My bad.- <BR> <BR>(Message edited by andy_nintzel on July 01, 2009)

I don't surf until the idiots in tubes get there, or the cruisers trying to pull wakeboarders. Then it's game over for them.

dey tuuuk arrrrrr jaaaaahhhhhbs... i mean buuuhtrrr.

Etiquette!!!!! This is not taught to anyone that doesn't understand this thread. All sports have some form of it (golf, you don't stand directly behind someone or walk in their putting line. If someone does this you let them know not to do it again.) why is it not correct for us to explain etiquette in watersports. You can not ruin someone elses day just so you can have yours. If you display the proper etiquette you and everyone else has fun. Respect others!!! If you tube or surf and it ruins anyones elses opportunity to ride and you can perform your sport of choice somewhere else then you have broken etiquette and it should be fixed.

I'm thinking about upgrading surfboards. PM me with any deals on your boards that you no longer allow on your boat. Already got a slow LF skimskate and a Trickboardz and wouldn't mind getting a big fast board capable of getting air. I promise to only use them at night or after 11A. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>Peace.

Andy – I hate it when wakeboarders ruin my good surfing water. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>Seriously though, wakesurfing is soooooo much better in smooth water. Whomever thinks it is just a rough water sport is not a very good wakesurfer, in my opinion, so they just don’t know the difference. Would you want to board in chop? Neither do I. <BR> <BR>I experience this all the time on my home lake, which I live on. I get up at 6 in the morning to get the smooth water too: to wakesurf. As you, I sometimes structure my day around it. Many times at my end of the lake it’s nice and smooth, but there is a slalom course near there as well, so we always go away from that area. People still give us looks like we are ruining their water after we just took the time to get far away from the slalom course. Thankfully I’m not a small dude so I stare right back. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>As people are saying etiquette is etiquette, and in my opinion driving in a straight line while wakesurfing doesn’t screw the water any worse than driving in a straight line while wakeboarding. If anything it’s less as the wave is moving so much slower so it doesn’t travel as far. I think the problem is you see more novices jumping behind the boat to wakesurf because it is easier. If that same novice were to wakeboard and fall all of the time it would make the water even worse. <BR> <BR>Anyway, tubing absolutely screws the water by design. Wakesurfing itself does not.

I grew up riding Lake Havasu on weekends, needless to say it can get a little crowded. Butter sets have to start at first light, literally 5am. Last time I was out there a guy was surfing at first light. We asked if he could go to a better spot to not ruin everyone's water, he told me to F myself, then I rode past and filled his boat with water. Listing heavy to one side really prevents a good high speed chase. <BR> <BR>Wakesurfing is to wakeboarding what rollerblading is to skateboarding, GAY!!!

gotta love calling other sports gay <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/lol.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>We used to surf a bunch when we first got our inboard, but then the novelty kind of wore off. Haven't surfed much at all the last 2 years. I could see where people who aren't dedicated to progressing on a wakeboard have fun surfing though, its sort of like tubing- doesn't take much effort unless you're doing tricks which 90% I see surfing aren't...

So what do you guys do when the water is rough? <BR> <BR>I usually prefer to wakeboard but there are plenty of days when the water is trashed. Rather than bitch about the water or sit in the boat doing nothing I would rather surf. <BR> <BR>Im curious, if you plan a day on the lake and the water is not good enough to wakeboard, what is your next option? Pack up and go home? LOL.

Pretty soon we'll all need Sky Skis with 10' pylons under them.

special olympics of water sports

Etiquette? Really? Because you want to wakeboard someone should just hand the water over to you and go ride in rough water? WOW... <BR> <BR>This sentence is down right laughable. <BR> <BR><blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1><b>quote:</b></font><p>If you tube or surf and it ruins anyones elses opportunity to ride and you can perform your sport of choice somewhere else then you have broken etiquette and it should be fixed.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> <BR> <BR>Why not wakeboard where you think they should tube or surf? Cutting you off of doing powerturns all day... Now that is an "Etiquette" issue. <BR> <BR>Wakesurfing is "gay"? Not sure I understand that comment but hey if thats how you really feel<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

Billthom, you are grossly mistaken if you think that Wakesurfing is no different than wakeboarding in creating chop. Wakesurfing sends nice big rollers down an entire line of water at a slow rate even if you are simply going straight (no power turns etc.) Case in point: at a local slough that is several miles long if someone is wakesurfing on one side it will send rollers completely down the line making it FAR worse than a simple wind ripple/chop. At that point you cannot ride behind (or in front, if they have stopped at one point) of the wakesurfing boat for much much farther of a distance (commonly 100's and 100's of yards sometimes even the entire distance if they have been there long enough). I would MUCH rather ride with a small consistent chop than deal with rollers. I would almost dare say powerturning is better in that scenario as it only sends a 3-4 set of rollers down the line rather than tons of those surf rollers. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by liquidmx on July 01, 2009)

If the water is crap I would rather not be out there getting thrown around, so we either find a cove to hang in or go back to camp and play a lot of cornhole!!!

hey andy, <BR> <BR>I hear your frustration, and know where you are coming from. <BR>We have to respect other water users.

By MattG (pierce_bronkite) on Wednesday, July 01, 2009 - 1:02 pm: <BR> <BR> <BR>Hit Double UPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No kidding... <BR> <BR>Andy...Bald Eagle is Huge bro...Just ride elsewhere

Andy Double ups are fun but like wakeboarding they still require relatively calm water. I do agree that it's wrong to surf in butter. I hate it when I roll up in cove and someone is surfing. <BR> <BR>My guess is that most of you all who just want to wakeboard don't have kids on board. Case in point, I went out last night to my local lake with the wife and my daughter expecting to get some good sets in, instead it was windy and there were tubers and surfers. This was on a Tuesday at 6:00. Water was totally trashed. Instead of bitching about it I hoped on the tube with my 3yr old daughter and afterwards wakeboarded with my 3yr old daughter (she stands in middle of the board and holds on my legs). She laughed so hard that she couldn't breathe. That right there was better than me being upset that I couldn't wakeboard because the water was trashed. <BR> <BR>My point is, it's what you make of it. You have to make the best of water conditions regardless if someone is surfing or tubing. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by Pierce Bronkite on July 01, 2009)

Richard, did you miss the word "and"?

MattG, great post <BR> <BR>I'm in the same boat (pun intended) I love to ride and get depressed when the water is trashy. But instead of pissing and moaning about people who have just as much right as I do to do whatever they want on the water that we all pay to maintain, its time to pull out the tube and go riding with the kids. I get more joy out of getting outside the wakes with my kids on the tube and seeing their joy than I do from wakeboarding anyways. Well, maybe its a tie. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/biggrin.gif" border=0> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by drknute3 on July 01, 2009)

So if I show up with my slalom ski will you guys head out of the cove and into the water that has a slight chop? <BR> <BR>You guys are entertaining with you perceived right of ownership. <BR> <BR>Slalom, wakeboard, surf, tube, bass boat, airchair, parasail, jet ski,cabin cruiser, sea kayak, whatever... first come first served. If you don't want to share the water head for a cable park.

^^ DING DING DING ^^ <BR> <BR>Well said.. <BR> <BR>No I didnt miss the word and. According to most on this tread it appears surfing ruins quite a few people days.

my friend once said; <BR> <BR>"those that quit wakeboarding to wakesurf either: <BR> <BR>a. suck at wakeboarding <BR>b. has gone as far as they could on a wakeboard."

My PP still tweaks out to this day due to hitting a big surf roller at the Delta. Once my boat was damaged my tolerance level has gone way down. Surfing does ruin the water more than wakeboarding, the rollers are bigger and there are 10X more wally's at the lake wakesurfing these days. Id rather share a cove with a tuber. tubing is way cooler IMO. <BR> <BR>and I nominate Big Heavy for Post of the Year!

I tend to agree with the etiquette comments and think the comparison to other sports is right on. At the same time, can't argue with "everyone has a right to the water". Still, it definitely irritates if I'm already riding in a cove and someone comes in and starts surfing. Now if the surfer is there first, what can you do? <BR> <BR>My real question has to do with some one's comment above about surfing ruining transmissions. I don't see how it's any harder on the tranny than riding with the boat weighted. I usually have more weight in the boat for riding than I do surfing.

It's frightening how similar the various above arguments are to the ones wakeboarders used to laugh at and make fun of when they were coming out of the mouths of waterskiers. Put your gloves on kiddies, you're now them.

Im not sure if it just hasnt caught on up here or what but I barely ever see anyone surfing. Infact if it is rough and we start surfing most people ask us what the hell were doing cause they have never seen it. <BR> <BR>The main reason I even got into surfing was because I was burnt out on getting up at 6am to get great water. I've gotten to the point if its not flat I usually pass on my wake set. <BR> <BR>Yeah I'd agree Dave. Or go hang out on a hotboat forum! Its crazy how much they HATE wakeboarders... I've tried to reason with them lol usually end up getting attacked by the 30 people or banned completely lol

Dtb, <BR> <BR>I was specifically referring to direct-drive inboards, I'm sure it doesn't do as much damage to a V-drive. Forcing the boat to constantly try and plane out is not good, and the boats I refer to had way too much weight put to one back corner. Add to that the odd stopping, and slamming it in reverse to avoid getting swamped, and it destroyed the trannys. <BR> <BR>The thing is I can surf behind my little old ski boat with only a few people in it, yet you see all these surfers looking for the biggest wave. Why? It's not like you're really benefiting from a bigger wave that much. More room to move around sometimes, but that's about it. <BR> <BR>I hope to not buy a boat that has been used greatly for surfing. It is, IMO, the one of the worst things to do to a boat.

A-dub, the bigger longer wave opens up the wave to do tricks. With a big board you can cruise behind anything but to do tricks you need the surface area of a bigger, longer wave.

You guys are right, I'm not one to use the term "gay" flippantly. It was a poor word selection. I should have used "LAME", my bad. <BR> <BR>More than anything I was trying to get a rise out of the "core" wakesurf guys, you people crack me up! Everyone has a right to use the water how they please, I reserve the right to get faded and take the occasional nakeboarding set. <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>

MAN the force is STRONG with the keyboard Jedi here....

The sheep have all come to this topic to hate on wakesurfing. I hate when the water is ruined by surfers, tubers, powerturners, and other wakeboarders. However, I can either ride through it, find better water, or call it a day and chill on the boat. I guess my sense of entitlement is not as great as others.

I love doing the wakesurfing.... with that said I only do it on weekends when the lake is too busy to get a good wakeboard set in..... also, there is only one other person who wakeboards on our lake, and thats only weekends too...... <BR> <BR>but I could see how others would hate it.

By Joe Umali (dakid) man you always have the best posts. Next time I am in Cali i am going to find you and give you a high five.

oh boy and I thought my 'I hate comp vests' was controversial hahah! Always flat water on the river.

wakesurfing makes our sport look stupid. <BR> <BR>go surf at the beach. wakeboard in the butter.

wakeboarding makes our sport look stupid. <BR> <BR>go wakeboard in a cable park. wakeskate in the butter.

The thing I like about my lake is that it is so big, and has enough turns, that you can almost always find a line devoid of people. However, it sometimes seems as though there are two groups that are dedicates to messing up the water, Jetskiers and tubers. <BR> <BR>The only tubers that I have have a problem with are on one boat. They live almost at the end of the lake but will zig zag down an entire 5-10 mile stretch of lake, destroying every single line that I live by. <BR> <BR>Once or twice though, I've had a fisherman zig zag around, going back and forth past us to screw up the water. It should be noted that I'm always riding behind an old outboard deckboat... <BR> <BR>As for wakesurfers, I've only had a problem with them a few times, and that's because for a while, I only had my jetski to ride behind. Because of that, I'd stick to my cove, but there was a couple of people who'd wakesurf (water was probably 60 degrees at the time too), and they just kept driving back and forth past my cove, despite the fact that there is a three mile stretch of lake there that they have all to themselves...

Its funny how its not okay to hate on people here yet its an acceptable form in other sports (such as surfing). Almost anyone who surfs knows full well that paddling into a locals line up isnt the smartest thing to do...yet its not cool for the guys who live on the delta to yell at the wally's that are in their neck of the woods?

Ok this aint gonna go well. <BR>C'mon people, This is America! You are not truly serious, are you? Last time I checked it was a free freaken country, at least until Obama was elected. Nobody owns the public water ways, not me, not you, not wakeborders, skiers, surfers, fishermen, or tubers etc etc. It is a shared resource. If you don't like the water sport someone is participating in, at the area you want to use, or "think that you own", that's just too dam bad, doesn't matter what dang time it is. Some of you people need to grow the hell up! The world does not revolve around you or our sport, learn to share the water or move on is all I can tell you. Whining about surfers messing up "OUR" water is pretty dam childish. <BR>The whole notion that a wakeboarder or anyone for that matter should dictate or suggest where somebody else should go to enjoy their sport, so that they can have "the best" water for themselves is ridiculous. I like to ride on flat water as much as the next person, but it aint my water and it aint yours either. If I can't find butter water I ride anyway or do something else, that's just the way it is, so get over it, it aint all about you! The childish way of thinking that I see in some of these threads gives wakeboarding a bad name and a bad rep, it just hurts the sport for everyone. Its this kind of reasoning that can destroy a great sport like wakebording. All the same crap that the water skiers used to say about us is coming full circle, in what I hear more and more wakeboarders saying about other water sports messing with "our water". I think its time I tried wake surfing, and when I do, you come try to tell me to move somewhere else and then lets see what happens. Do I sound a little upset,.. you're damned right I do. Freedom aint frickn free, it is paid for in blood. Freedom to live, freedom to ride. The freedom to enjoy the fruits of this country have been paid for in blood. You, know, the fourth of July thingy and Memorial and Veterans day etc. Some of you may not give a rip about that either, probably just another day off to ride and that's just fine. Wake surfers have the same freedoms to use the water as we do. Its that simple. If you don't want to live in a free country, then go somewhere else.

I'd just rather wakesurf in all YOUR butter.

Also every other boardsport in existence can trace it's origins to people who wanted to surf where they couldn't- including wakeboarding. <BR> <BR>Like David said I can remember the days before towers, poles &amp; ballasts when this whole argument came from skiers about the "skurfers". The argument is still weak, the only thing that's changed is the people making it.

I grew up slalom skiing then transitioned into wake boarding (I remember getting an HO Pro when they were first released). Now, I wake surf. When my friends and I started wake boarding, we got a ton of flack from slalom skiers because we had extra weight in our boat and the wake was messing up their slalom water. They told us to go wake board when the water was too rough to ski. <BR> <BR>Hmm, sounds pretty familiar. Hell, if they had their way, to this day no one would be WAKE BOARDING on calm water. The slalom guys would get all the good water. Well, that didn't happen because everyone had to learn to share. Is it perfect? No. That's the definition of a compromise, no one's happy. <BR> <BR>So, as Bill points out, wake surfers like good water too. Just like wake boarding, when you are working on difficult tricks, you want a smooth take off and consistent wake. And, believe it or not, wake board boat wakes mess with wake surfers too. If I'm about to do spin or launch and air, and a set of rollers are coming at me, I wait for the boat to get though them before I proceed. That's just the way it goes on a public lake. Sometimes we can't find any decent water anywhere. It's our choice to ride anyway or wait for another time. <BR> <BR>The truth is, all water sports are better with calm water (even the tubers seem to like it) and no one group has more of a right to it than another. You can either choose to hate or accept. <BR> <BR>Ok, flame away...

I think some of you have even more time on your hands than me...scary!

Wait, you mean you guys don't like wave-boarding when there are big waves on the lake? <img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/proud.gif" border=0>

Agreed mark sher. Everybody loves the butter. First come first serve. I love to ski, board and surf, but I'm not going to bitch because someone else is taking advantage of the butter, no matter what they are doing, because if they don't I will! <BR>Tubes are another story.

"it gets boring to watch." Wakeboarding gets boring to watch when only beginners are doing it.. apparently you haven't seen a good wakesurfer.. Butter is butter, whomever is up early enough to get it gets it. We get on the water early to practice because, just like for wakeboarding, rough water isn't good for wakesurfing. Water is water, unless it is your own private lake you should be enjoying it and stop complaining because of having to share it.

i think joe u. said above people that wake surf cant wakeboard, TRUE. and the cant really surf either. surfing is my sport and has been my entire life. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712334.jpg" alt="Upload">

heres a couple more of what surfing really is. <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712338.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712339.jpg" alt="Upload">

^^ Good man, surfing behind the boat does look fun (I don't wakesurf) but the ocean serves it up way bigger and gnarlier. Haven't seen anyone get into a barrel behind the boat yet. <BR> <BR>I don't really get how surfing in butter is better, if you're riding your wakeboard in the chop and you get inside the wake the chop goes away. How is surfing behind the boat different? You're still riding water that just got run over by the boat... <BR> <BR>(Message edited by jtnz on July 01, 2009)

heres a pic of my local "wake" lets see anyone get enough weight in their "Surf Enzo" to match that. and if anyone wants to play well i cant tell you where that is. wakesurfing = no risk no reward, surfing big waves = the most scared you wil ever be in your life and the reward well words cant described it. ill take a triple over head day at ---- vrs eating CO. and pumping a baby wake all day. <BR> <BR>and if you think this is bad the way wakeboarders and surfers cant get along. come try and paddle out to a couple of my local spots and see what the boyz have to say. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR><img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/65919/712342.jpg" alt="Upload"> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by westsiderippa on July 01, 2009)

Lol...comparing surfing to wakesurfing. This thread is comical now.

"Why can't we all just get along.." Rodney King