I noticed in another thread talk of problems at Ski World.. <BR>I have dealt with these guys in past and thought they were great to deal with and service was great too.. <BR>I heard they were bought out by Copes a few months ago, is this true?

Hope not. Ski World has always been the class of local boat dealers, IMO.

i don't know, but I know that their service dept is now no longer part of the dealership. They moved to Livermore and they also service the local Malibu dealership...

copes bought ski world b/c they are in big debt

Copes is financially involved. <BR> <BR>The service department is part of it. The purchasing is part of it. <BR> <BR>The two companies are affiliated like several board companies are affiliated. They still operate as separate entities.

Cope has taken over management of Ski World, I am not liberty to confirm/deny other speculation by others or my own. <BR> <BR>Since Cope also owns Ultimate Water Sports in Livermore it kind of makes sense to centralize service between Pleasanton and Livermore since they are so close.

Too bad.. If Copes ends up owning all of the no. Ca. MC and Bu dealerships that would take away the competition that keeps boat pricing honest.. <BR>

What happened to Ski World in Santa Rosa? They are gone!

Well, I guess that means my next boat will not be a Mastercraft, or it's going to come from a dealer that's very far away. <BR> <BR>

Ski world in SR is gone. Extreme in SR has taken over mc.Iam currently dealing with extreme.I will keep all informed on service.I have asked about warranty issues and so far so good.I also contacted the factory about situation and they are aware of what is going on in nor cal. <BR> Question??? How much for a 100 service?

I try to do the service stuff myself now.

I worked at ski world in santa rosa and all I can say is that there are a lot of ppl looking for gary johnson he screwed a lot of ppl over in that deal. Dave is still helping everyone he can out that was screwed in that deal since dennis tells them he had nothing to do with that store... Haha yea well then why did he come take all the inventory before the state board of equalization shut the doors. As far as the copes deal with ski world... Marine Retail Management (MRM) is owned by frank and bob cope. Mrm runs all the ski worlds. Sad thing is all the prices are now pretty much fixed @ a higher point then they were before when there was competition... One day frank was furious cause his wifes friend called the pleasanton store for a price quote on a boat that frank had already quoted her on the ski world employee quoted her like 5 k lower, this was when mrm first took over the management of ski world. I used to hear that copes would have to drop prices 5-10k when ppl went there mentioning they had been to ski world, ...before the "deal" happened. <BR> <BR>Btw, why can't ultimate in rp get warranty work done faster on mastercrafts... Or get any work done on mastercrafts in a reasonable amount of time or price??? I've heard of a lot of bad things about the service dept that would keep me from buying a bu or mc. <BR> <BR>With the price increase in mc's (from what ski world would sell u one @) and the lack of a service dept. Mind as well just get a nautique, then u have a five yr warranty and a service dept that can get ur boat serviced the same day and doesn't tell u something got stuck in ur ballast pickup, go try it again... With out even looking at the boat. (06x2) outlet line on center ballast tank came from the factory pinched on the first models, they should get on the mc dealer link, it is meant to inform them of things like this so that they won't have to sidestep the issue making the customer come away with a salty taste in their mouth or maybe if there service manager had more experience in the marine industry that would help. Imo owning a transmission shop doesn't automatically qualify u to run a dealership service dept and a mc bu one at that. Wow I could go on and on about the horror stories with that service dept. But ill just stop now .... If ur interested in hearing more pm me.

Another vote for Ski World, they have been nothing but GREAT to me, ( Thx Tony &amp; crew ). <BR> <BR> <BR>I hope they are able to remain a seperate entity under the Cope's umbrella &amp; continue to provide the excellent customer service they are known for. <BR> <BR>Lzy

Thank Norm. I figure I bought my boat from Skiworld just in time. The last of the non-Copes prices.

Too bad.. <BR>Now we have a choice of Cope's, Ultimate Cope's or Cope world to buy a Mc or Bu<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/uhoh.gif" border=0>

Don't forget Boat Country in Escalon for Bu.

Is boat country owned by Copes too?

No, i meant you can still go to boat country without having to deal with Copes. <BR> <BR>Sorry, i should have made that clear. <BR>At least that's my understanding. <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by ldr on June 01, 2006)

Ok so a little disclaimer is needed for Norm he was a employee of ski world but now works for hammers marine, so his suggestion to get a Natuiqe should be taken with a grain of salt. The reason Ski world Santa Rosa closed is because no one paid their taxes. It is not the last owner’s fault he did not know it is Gary Johnson’s fault as Norm pointed out when he sold the company to Dave. As far as Dennis is concerned he did do everything he could to help out the customers but the Santa Rosa store was a separate corporation that shared the ski world name sort of like a franchise. So there was a certain amount of work done together but for the most part they and in the eyes of the law they were two separate companies. As far as the management is concerned there has been a change, but Dennis still owns the store and still has the same people working for him. Who on here has had a good experience at Ski world? Was it the management that caused this good experience or was the individual employee that you dealt with? I would wager a bet that is was that employee that made you’re experience a good one. So why would you stop going there because something changed behind the seines. Its is all the same people you have dealt with in the past and they all have the same attitudes and feelings on how things should be done. And consequently the same great customer service. So please don’t stop going there because of something you read or a preconceived notion you have give them a try if you don’t like it don’t go there fine but don’t just stop because of something you read. And just to let everyone know that I am not a hypocrite I was a employee of ski world and I now work for ultimate water sports and no where in this post have I told you where or what to buy My only intention is to voice my opinion.

Great post Erik

so much hate in the Nor-Cal wake community....can't we all just get along?? <BR> <BR>Oh, and yeah....great post Erik. <BR> <BR>I do find it kinda funny though, that the same people are on this same thread topic every time it comes up. The horse must still be twitching, I guess?

my suggesting to get a nautique has nothing to do with the employees at ski world erik, if you would please re read my post you will notice that i said, mind as well buy a nautique ... for the reason that ski world and copes now have the same HIGHER price and pricing will not be competitive along with the horror stories about the service dept. not getting the job done and charging waay too much. obviously ultimate is not doing an adequate job at servicing boats or ppl with malibus and mastercrafts wouldnt be coming to a nautique dealership to get their boats serviced. in the 5 months that i have worked at hammers 4 of our (mine and dave's) customers have come and either bought nautique's or centurion's... and there are more waiting to as soon as thier boats are sold, those ppl just dont want to deal with ultimate trying to warranty their boats. <BR> <BR>so erik let me ask you a couple questions, when dennis came to santa rosa and took all the inventory, including boards that had yet to be sent back for warranty should he not be responsible for those boards and all that inventory. if so why have i had my customers call me and tell me they talked to dennis and he said he never had anything to do with the santa rosa store, well then why would he have came up and took everything if he didnt have anything to do with the store? wasnt dennis an owner of that store also?

and yes employees can and do make youre purchase/visit to a boat shop enjoyful. but, management and the way they set pricing can make you a remorseful buyer. <BR> <BR>"oh that employee was sure nice, i want to come here and spend an extra 5k then pay double for an annual service when that time comes, yep i can hear it now." <BR> <BR>especially when you find out youre friend got the same boat with more options for 6k less just because he lived 2hrs west.

Sounds like a lose lose. MC Bu with copes or CC with their fugly new towers. No wonder supra is doing so well.

True Dennis did take the product, and we sent it back to help settle the debt that the store had encored. I know because I helped to send it back and as far as the warranty work goes Dennis is still giving boards to customers the problem was that there was no disenable record keeping for the warranty or the inventory on the whole. I do not want to fight with you via the Internet. So as far as price goes if you are interested in a boat whatever boat it may be just go look and inquire about the price let me know how much more expensive it is I honestly don’t know and would be interested in what the change has been in price. And there is a difference between being competitive and cutting price below operational margin just to beat out some one else. Again I have to say please do not write off a company because who you heard is managing it now. Fact is that its still the same great guys who are helping you out that they were before and just give them a try and if you don’t like the experience by all means go some place else. But give them a chance it might be the copes umbrella but it is still the same people with the same attitudes and feelings on customer service. I wont comment on service or sales because I do not have a un biased opinion so if any one has a first hand experience with the new service center most notably the one in Livermore I would welcome you’re opinion. <BR> <BR>

You have to understand that when some one says they wont go some where becuase of what they heard about the owners of a company it does not hurt the owners that much, but it does hurt the hard working guys at that individual shop. Who when it comes down to it are the people who make the every day decision about price and service.

Wow another post about the same BS year after year. Erik-well done and nice insight to the the behind the scenes. To Matt. I recenetly had a good friend price a boat at Boat Country and Ultimate-SJ and they were within $500 apples to apples. So if ultimate is price gouging, so is BC. I would speculate that they both pay similar prices and therefore sell them close to the same price. They have the option of cutting their profits to make a deal, but when boats are so scarce, why would you do that? Also Matt, did'nt Ski World GIVE/sell your brother a Xstar? So what does that do to his deal? Would'nt it make sense for you to support the new merger until they have proven to be a problem? I believe that your brother and father are in good relations with the Cope's, so why would this not be a benefit to him? And is'nt anything good for him - good for you? <BR> <BR>Finally I stand as I have always done. If you have a problem with one of the stores contact me personally and I will do my best to help. Frank and Bob Cope work in their stores every single day and are accessible, so if there is an issue that I can't handle, go to them. They have been in business over 57 years and there is a reason they continue to grow and prosper. There are always going to be unhappy customers along the road when you do the volume that they do, but they have people like me to try to help out.

Well what do you expect? I f you screw over enough people for long enough than it finally catches up too you!!!!

Ski World is a great shop. They've supported me and my purchases for a number of years now. My experiences of late have demonstrated that very little has changed. All the same faces you know and love. <BR> <BR>As for the merger... Be it what it is. Big business almost always seems to win out. The only problem I see is that the service situation needs a major overhaul. I've had a few problems on that end and am in no hurry to deal with them again. It's unfortunate, but I think its a boat industry deal, not a Cope's/Ski World deal. I had the same shoddy service with my Sanger. <BR> <BR>Anyway, yada, yada, yada... Carry on.

If it was catching up to them, would'nt sales be going down and they would be closing stores instead of buying stores out.... <BR> <BR>I agree with you Evan. As long as I have owned boats, I have had service issues, regardless of MFG. Lack of competition and shops, I suppose and ultimately such small numbers (compared to cars) sold that nothing happens quickly.

I initially tried to purchase my X2 from Copes, after they told me they could get me the boat for a certain price..... "All we need is a deposit to show the sales manager that you're serious, and we'll push the deal through." <BR> <BR>A $10,000 check and two days later, I finally get a call back from the salesman, informing me that the lowest they can go on the price is about $5,000 more than the price we initially agreed on. I had to waste another two hour round trip going back to Rocklin to get my check. I bought my X2 from Ski World that weekend for $4,000 less than Copes. I will never, <i>ever</i> purchase a boat from Cope and McPhetres. <BR> <BR>

I have to say that since the so called merger nothing has changed in our dealings with ski world. My family is picking up their 06 X star there today. Tony has been wonderful to work with and their service department always does everything they can to get us back on the water as soon as possible. <BR> <BR>When given a choice between Copes in Rocklin and Ski World i will always steer people towards ski world, not only because of what ski world has done for my family, but because i think they will be happier with the way they are treated. Maybe Copes is changing, and it would be great if they were. Not just for me but for the entire wakeboard community. It's good they have you (Jason) patrolling the boards and putting out fires. If i had any issue with Copes i'd be sure to let you know. <BR> <BR>By the way It is my FATHER who BOUGHT/is buying an X star from Ski World, and that is because of my families relationship with them, not just my brother. My family does a great job of promoting Mastercraft and Ski World to other families. The famliy aspect is why we got into this sport in the first place. <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>(Message edited by ldr on June 02, 2006)

I am sorry you had a bad experience Joe and I wish I could change you mind, but I understand. It is too bad you could'nt have gotten Bob Cope involved at the time, but what's done is done. I am sure there won't be an opportunity, but if you ever need help or want to deal with them, hit me up and I'll help.

I think I need to say something here.I, owner of a 04 xstar,purchased from Scott in plesenton,Started dealing with SR because my house is in Clearlake(Soda bay).The warranty work(interior) was pointed out day of pickup(aug).I had no problems with Scott.Liquid wrenches did what they had too...Loved the work.Stereo(subbed out) needed some minor fixes.The work was done onsite in liquid warehouse.Thanx! <BR> as far as dealings with SR.The employees were nice and curtious.They gave me deals,I buy alot of toys, but the service(Randy) was excellent.THANX Randy!!. I, like most were taking by surprise when this happened.Tonight I drive to my house and pickup my boat for a 100 HR service(too busy to do myself).I will report back on service and warranty issues.I have contacted The factory and are working with both dealer and factory.So far all is good.I do have to report that I purchased 2 blue top optima battery's.So far Denise has asked me to go find Dave and ask him.Denise has said he is not replacing the batteries.I will give both dealers and chance to fix my issues.I will report back to WW. w/how im treated and my new dealings with UW.If anybody has any questions please email me direct. <BR>

Update:Just got off the phone with factory.5:30 PM thier time on a friday.GREAT company to deal with! The person Iam talking with just made my weekend<img src="http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/clipart/rofl.gif" border=0>.Its easy to bash a company..but when warranty issues come up.You see how a company backs thier product.

Nice to hear the positive stuff to Billy!

Is Udi now at Liquid Wrenches? I won't do any Cope bashing (done with that..) but I am curious why Jerry O'Dell left so abruptly last year. A good answer to that question might just restore my faith in Cope's

udi is at the ultimate ski world service center not liquid wrenches, at least thats the last i heard.

If it was positive why did the customer have to call the factory himself

Thanks Norm. <BR> <BR>Jason B - Any response to my Jerry O'Dell question? <BR>

Does anyone know what billy was talking about? <BR>I've read both of his posts numerous times and i have absolutely no clue.

Udi currently the service manager for Livermore Utilmate/Ski World under Ultimate's management. Very weird seeing him in ultimate after all of these years that I have known him. <BR> <BR>Bare- Let me check into the Jerry situation. I think things were mutual, but don't know for sure.

Yhea Bare- Uide is working for Ultimate in Livermore now. I believe he is the service manager for that area for both Ultimate and Ski World. It is very strange seeing him in an Ultimate stores after all of these years that I have known him as a Ski World guy. Ultimate is lucky to have him. <BR> <BR>Let me check into Jerry's deal and hit you back.

Udi is no longer the service manager, Buff. <BR> <BR>

oh nooo, what happened to Udi? He was way nice

Cool, thanks. <BR>

It would be unfortunate if they lost Udi. I had my boat serivced there last Feb and have nothing bad to say about the service department there. It was my first time out at the livermore service center and Udi's customer service would have earned my repeat business. With as many boats that they had in for service at that time, it was nice to be able to call and have him know who you are and exactly what is going on with your boat. He didnt have to scramble around looking for paper work or call you back, he really seemed to be on top of things. <BR> <BR>I had a real problem with copes down in santa clara about 4 years ago and they will never see my boat down in that shop again. <BR> <BR>

Jason check you pms I sent you my phone number im looking forward to your call Joe

One more reason why everyone should own a Sanger...

Udi is still there, but he is no longer managing the facility.

Just talked to El Daddo <BR>An he told me that Udi is over at the new facility instead of being on site at Ski World. <BR>Apparently the new facility is somewhere near liquid wrench. Maybe JRod can clear things up a bit.

Udi handles the customer serivce for the new service center. Becuase there is no longer service done out of the store. It was just to small for it. The new facility is on vasco rd and is masive.

So I know that Udi is at the Ultimate/ski world site, He is just not managing it. They are on the opposite side of Vasko than Liquid Wrenchs. They are right across from the 7-11. Big 40000sq ft building same as Liquid Wrenchs.

Sorry,I had problems with my interior.I was working with ski world to replace defects. <BR>I did not have my boat serviced by UW.The mechanic fellout of a boat and ended up in the hospital.We rescheduled for next week.

If Udi is working for Copes/Ultimates, this will help improve their service alot.. <BR>Udi is a great guy to deal with and knows what he's doing. <BR>The biggest complaint with Copes in Sac and the bay area I see is getting work done, warranty or otherwise. <BR>Maybe once he gets it straightened out down there they can bring him to Sac.. <BR>

In the past, my family purchased a MC prostar 197 in 2004 from Ski World under Scott. At the time we were not informed about the factory recall on the trailer upon purchase. <BR> <BR>After a year with the boat (last summer), only about 10 hrs on it we encountered the issue when our rear tire on the trailer started to rub the under girth of the trailer fender severely. It happened that the axles needed to be replaced. <BR> <BR>Brought to the attention of Ski World at first there was a reluctance to remedy the situation under warranty. After a "conversation," Dennis was eventually notified and the situation was remedied. The axles were replaced and everyone was happy again. <BR> <BR>To the credit of Ski World especially Dennis there at the time was no better MC Service dealer in Nor. Cal. Also, to Ski World's credit back in the day at the Castro Valley shop there was the guy that sold me initially on wakeboarding, Scott Stalkweather. He sold me my first Full Tilt Weddington Pro 139 with SR bindings and after that was BS Patterson 139 and he even offered to teach me on the delta which i never did but now looking back it would have been a great experience! <BR> <BR>After recently visiting both the Ski World in Castro Valley and Pleasanton. It seems the CV shop is under stocked and the Pleasanton shop has grown. A lot more boats than before with an expanded board and binding selection. Just an observation though! <BR>

thats cause the castro valley store will eventually close, it isnt really needed.

ok guys somethings about my posts need to be cleared up, i have no hard feelings for anyone talked about in my posts, dennis, frank, bob, and all the crew at the ski worlds are great guys i never meant anything bad by this. i should have known a little more about what i was talking about before i wrote what i did. i was mainly just frustrated because ultimate watersports has the mc dealer in my area and their service dept has not helped out my old customers with warranty or service to say the least. i didnt mean to take it out on everybody, i apologize for that. <BR> <BR>-norm

good job norm....takes guts <BR> <BR>i dont know the whole story but thats what this FORUM is... is to discuss points of views and learn something...if i was 16 again i would know everything but i do not.. so if i "offended" anyone saying that copes was involved i am sorry but i do think that some needs to tell the correct story so no big rumors get started...my 2 cents

i agree with you ryan about someone telling the whole story. the only problem with that is that there is always a couple sides to a story and sometimes the ppl giving thier interpertation will leave things out, and exaggerate other things. why should we care at all if copes is involved with ski world anyway as long as you go there and leave with a good feeling thats all that matters. right?

Yes, Norm- that is a great sumation of a very long discussion board.