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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through November 17, 2003 » Whats better 4x100w speakers or 2x200w speakers « Previous Next »
By Peter Devine (frickenchicken) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 4:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hi all. Whats better? 4x100w speakers or 2x200w speakers what ever the brand. Which will project the best clearest sound.
 
By sydwayz (sydwayz) on Sunday, October 26, 2003 - 6:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
More speakers=more surface area=more sound. Very simple.
 
By Duane (nvsairwarrior) on Monday, October 27, 2003 - 8:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I agree with sydwayz. I would however, compare some of the other characteristics of the speakers of choice. Firstly, the power handling capability of a speaker doesn't necessarily relate directly to how loud it is or can be. Among other things, one major limiting factor when a speaker manufacture states a Max Cap, it's because of the wire diameter used in the coil. Smaller wire = lower Max Cap. There are tradeoffs for going small, or large diameter wire.
Personally, I like to look at the sensitivity ratings of speakers. This is an area where you can maximize the power that you are running. The higher the sensitivity = the lower the power required for the same output, i.e. volume.
So, for me, I like Hi Sensitivity, and Hi Max Cap. This means; Doesn't Need a lot of power, but can handle it. Which translates to durable/reliable at higher volume/power levels.
Just for reference, how much volume are you looking for?
A) In the boat
B) Swim Deck + A
C) At the beach + A,B
D) While riding +A,B,C
E) or?
Good luck

 
By Peter Devine (frickenchicken) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 4:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thanks for your explainations. So you guys reakon I should stick with the 4x100w. The only thing I need to know now is if the sensitivity difference between the clarions I have and a new set of speakers are only 1 or two ie 89 v 92, will I gain anything substantive.
Looking at specs, there dos'nt seem to be a max cap. Is there another name for max cap.
At the moment I have my gain set at 75% . With a new set of speakers with a higher sensitivity, should I beable to turn up the gain 100%.
Thaks again for your input

 
By Duane (nvsairwarrior) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 6:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Peter,
Sorry for adding some confusion regarding the "max Cap" thing.
Different manufacturers will call it slightly different but the long version is the "Maximum power handling capability" for a given speaker. Some call it Peak Power.
As far as the sensitivity goes, if all else is equal, then yes you will notice a difference in performance output between speakers of 89 db vs. 92. The Sensitivity measurment values are exponential and at the 90 db part of the scale, 3 db is near equivalent to a doubling of power.
Now the Gain comment: Although I'm sure that some people do, I NEVER turn my gain all the way up. I've been close in some systems but I would equate it to driving your car at maximum speed. It will be ok for a while but, the life shortens quickly. Also, depending on the amp in question, distortion from the amp will often become audible in this area.
So, if using a speaker with a higher sensitivity rating, you could turn you amp Down, to get the same output. But, since this is never really an option for us that like loud music, you just have to be certain that the speaker is capable of handling the power you are supplying and leave the gain up, say 80-85%(depends on the amp). Different rules of thumb for determining the best amp output for a speaker but I always try to use what the speaker manufacture recommends.
Sorry for the long one but I'm hopful you will respond to my survey type question (A-E).

 
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 7:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Technically, a double in power will give yopu a 3 db increase in volume. Double the speaker surface at the same power will give you the same 3 db increase in volume. IMO, the 4 speakers would be better because it is unlikely that you will find a speaker (except Boston Pros that come to mind) that will handle 200 watts continuous power. Also, you would likely need a good solid 250 X 2 or 300 watt per channel amp to safely drive 2 speakers at 200 continuous watts without clipping, distortion or over heating issues.

You could use a relatively inexpensive PPI 4125 4 X 125 to attain a nice 100 watt continous power rating and will have a broad range of speakers from which to choose that will be able to handle that wattage.

 
By Peter Devine (frickenchicken) on Tuesday, October 28, 2003 - 9:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Duane, my aim is to hear music while boarding. The speakers are in a box on the tower. So to answer your survey I would have to say d. Again thanks everyone. I will be looking for high peak and sensitivity, and I will stick with the 4x100w.
Looking forward to a great season in Oz.

 
By Duane (nvsairwarrior) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 8:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Peter,
Thanks for the answer.
Doug makes some good points about doubling the speaker area and I'm sure he meant to add that "at the same power" was for each of the speakers, not a total combined wattage.
As far as getting decent sound to the rider goes, I have listened to numerous systems while riding that would include 4 6.5's, 6 6.5's, 4 6x9's, 6 6x9's, 4 8's. The only set up that I can enjoy decent sound while riding are the last 2 that I mention.
This is in keeping with the idea that volume is somewhat proportional to speaker Area. After listening to the vaious set ups, I've come to the opinion that to start with, have 200 sq. inches of speaker area and the appropriate power for the speakers chosen and you will be fine. If you do that, you will find that interrior speakers will only be necessary to balance the mid and hi range within the boat which doesn't require much in terms of number of speakers or power.
Good luck

 
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 8:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The bigger speakers are the key. I am an SQ freak and could not convince myself to use 6X9s due to SQ issues, but the at 70 + feet back, the 6 X 9s may be the way to go. Only other suggestions are expensive long throw drivers such as Dynaudio that will not fit in Boss cannisters. I have two sets of B60s and a set of B50s. Put a pair of Boston Pro drivers in one set of the B 60s and CDTs in the other two sets powered by 300 watts per channel off McIntosh Amps. These are the most efficient and loudest drivers that will fit in those cannisters and they still could use another 3 to 5 dbs to make it perfect.

I was building a box to hold two Dynaudio sets with 7 inch drivers and a ID Max sub in the center. The Dynaudios are very loud and have huge voice coils (like 3 inches). I got the box designed and cut out, bought the drivers, but I never finished the box. That would have definitely sounded good 70 feet back.

 
By Duane (nvsairwarrior) on Wednesday, October 29, 2003 - 11:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Doug,
WOW, that must be some box!
I've seen the specs on the ID Max and it is very impressive. Could you save me the trouble of looking up the specs on the 7 inch drivers you mention?
I too wanted something more than what was offered and went with 2 pair of 8's and a 1" throat HLCDriver per pair. The 8's are rated at 97 db, the HLCDrivers are at 107 but, I had to build my own enclosures. But I got the results I was after.

 
By Rod Rinnert (deltahoosier) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I would not get too caught up in effeciency. That is measurement only at a set frequency. A lesser manufacturer can make the speaker to be effecient at the test frequency and then have a horrible response through the rest of the spectrum. I would say go with a known sound quality speaker. You should be after a speaker that has the ability to couple all the frequencies in a smooth manner. That way you will not have a bright horrible sounding speaker that destorts easy. You get whay you pay for.

Also, I have ran the Theille and Small (sp?) parameters, in the past, from my Boss B60's with the MB Quart's making a slight assumption for the cross-overs in the enclosure. Basically, it has a +6 db spike at 120 Hz. That will affect the distortion as well. The bottom line is be careful when adding these large drivers to your small enclosures. You may be able to put 6 x 9's in a sick looking little enclosure, but, you will not be able to use the power due to distortion in the lower frequencies. Then someone with a good set of 5.25's may roll up and blow you out of the water. Being louder and sounding better.

 
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:11 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Efficiency numbers mean a great deal more when using high end drivers that have a very flat response. I have heard very efficient drivers 100 + dbs powered by an old tube amp that was only 20 watts per channel sound as loud as my 300 watt per channel Krell through Martin Logans.

Back when I was working on my boat system, I went as far as micing about 5 or 6 different brand drivers on my towers to see which were the loudest. At same volume levels, the CDTs were loudest by about 3dbs, the Boston Pros were next, Focal Kevlars and Diamonds were about 1 or 2 less than the Boston Pros, MB Quart Qs about 1 less and etc. Cannot recall all specifics, but if one wanted to do a seach on this board, they probably could find the post. I really haven't dabbled with lesser speakers, but did test Cerwin Vegas and the MB Reference both os which used to come in the Boss enclosures and Boston Ralleys.

The Digital Designs 6.5 is an incredible driver and is also very loud, probably second only to Dynaudio I am told. You can pick those for only $ 129.00 each at www.ddaudio.com.

 
By Duane (nvsairwarrior) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 10:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Rod,
Good point on the effeciency. I do however only consider speakers that show the response accross the entire frequency range. It may be that the single number stated will be the highest on the graph, but that's the same with all manufactures.
Doug,
I've looked at the Focal Kevlars and would love to have some but at $225 ea. I can't justify them for throwing some volume to a rider at 75 feet.
Personally, I don't think more then a handfull of riders would be able to appreciate fine audiophile speakers outside of a listening room let alone at 75 feet and 22 mph.

 
By Doug Hanson (xtigeman) on Thursday, October 30, 2003 - 11:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Focals are not good for towers. They will fry quicker than the other high end stuff.
 
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