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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through November 17, 2003 » Reversing the Simer « Previous Next »
By Tracie (mb_girl) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey all, I have a couple of questions on reversing a Simer BW 8512. I'm going off of this schematic that has been floating around:

reversing polarity to Simer

I'm using this switch:

DPDT switch

Wiring the relays themselves makes sense - I get that part, but two things are throwing me on this. The first is that the connections on the switch aren't numbered but obviously are on the schematic. I can't figure out what wire goes where on it. (Can I just go get another cheap switch that is numbered & follow the numbering on that to hook mine up?) Also, the guy at the electrical shop thought that I may need to jump each side of the switch to get the lights to work. Second, the blue & green wires going to the pump - which goes to the red lead & which to the ground?

Thanks for any and all help & to whoever originally drew up that schematic - the guy down at the electrical shop that I'm getting my supplies from was impressed. He took a copy of it!

 
By james mccallum (jmccallum) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 12:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
1/ That circuit uses three relays... there is a two relay circuit that also works.

2/ Need to see the back of the swith. Often there are letters beside the terminals such as NC, NO, etc that let you know what each is.

3/ On the pump it doesn't matter .. just trial and error. Worst outcome is fill=empty and empty=fill. Just have to reverse motor wires...

 
By james mccallum (jmccallum) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 1:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I Labeled the terminals on one of the relays for you.



 
By Jamie Close (yooper) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 1:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tracie,
Post a picture of the back of the switch... I'm working on the exact same system.

 
By John Strain (jmanjohn) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 4:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Now I am confused! I have three Simers, 3 of those Switches. I did not use a relay.

Should I have used a relay?

 
By Tracie (mb_girl) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 4:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
James,
Thanks, that looks a little more simplified.

Jamie,
Okay, let's hope this works:

switch backside

John,
If you didn't use relays, how did you reverse polarity to reverse the pump?

 
By John Strain (jmanjohn) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 6:03 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If You read the switch left to right 1 and 6, 2 and 5 went to the pump, 3 and 4 are + and -. this was proven by Ty (Typhoon) He set Me up with a diagram
 
By Jamie Close (yooper) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 6:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tracie,
If I understand the the first diagram correctly, you would use a single-pole, Double throw switch. It would only have 3 connections on the back. (or 5 if lighted) I believe your picture is of a double pole, double throw. If you use a DP/DT, you wouldn't necessarily need the relays. You could just put jumper wires crossed at the switch. But then you would want to use fairly thick wire for everything. That's the advantage of the original diagram. You can use thin wire from the switch all the way back to the pump.

Am I understanding this at all? Where is the guy that made that diagram? Dane, was it?

 
By Tracie (mb_girl) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 10:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Okay, so if that's true then maybe I can use a scenario like this one that I saw on another thread:

jumper schematic

If it is true, then that really simplifies things. Can anyone confirm that using a DPDT switch I can set up my wiring like this?

 
By Jamie Close (yooper) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 6:40 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
That's exactly what I was talking about, but I don't know if it's the best way or not. I showed both diagrams, and he thought the top one would be best. With no relays, you need heavy gauge wire and a heavy duty switch. (I think) I need to get to the bottom of this, cause I'm about ready to start wiring. I want to use the first diagram, so my only question is which switch? Does anyone have a link where I can order the one I will need?
 
By Jamie Close (yooper) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 7:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Any reason this switch wouldn't work with the first diagram?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=15505395&St=6918&St2=-85100029&St3=-50208440&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=1250&DID=7


 
By Tracie (mb_girl) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 8:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I don't see why not. The relays are going to take most of the load off of the switch, so a 16 amp rating ought to be fine.

I was thinking about this last night & the thing I wonder is if I can use the last diagram that I posted with one relay between the battery & switch to help with the amp load & to allow me to use smaller wire from the relay on down the line. I've already got that switch that I first posted & it matches my accessory panel switches perfectly, so I'd really like to use it if possible. Any thoughts?

 
By Tom (tcaton) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 8:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tracie why not use the switch panel that comes on the MB factory ballast they reverse the pumps at the switch and use no relays and it would then look like a factory install.
 
By Jamie Close (yooper) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 9:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
This is the most useful thread I have found so far.... Check it out if you haven't read it. Hopefully it's helpful.

http://www.wakeworld.com/MB/Discus/messages/3183/65547.html

 
By Tracie (mb_girl) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 1:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yeah, I read that one a while back, but didn't pay enough attention at the time to what they were talking about with the switches themselves. Oh well, I'm going to try wiring this up like you recommended & see what I get (did some searching this morning & looks like there are others that are using this method with success w/DPDT switches). Thanks for the help.
 
By Tracie (mb_girl) on Saturday, September 13, 2003 - 4:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
It works! Thanks so much Jamie. Can't wait to try this out on the lake!
 
By dane (greatdane) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 9:04 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The first schematic works but adds an unnecessary relay. Sorry, I made a classic mistake of thinking that the pumps needed to disconnected when "off". In reality, the pumps just need to have no voltage "delta" when "off". My schematic below, from another thread, puts "gnd" on all pump connections when off.

ballast_relay

 
By Jamie Close (yooper) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 1:51 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane,
While I have your attention.... What gauge wire do I use for "thick," and what gauge for "thin?"
Thanks, by the way. This has been extremely helpful.

 
By dane (greatdane) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 3:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jamie,

The diagram in my post above uses a simple non-reversing three position switch and two relays to "reverse" the connections to the pump. Something very similar would also work for a reversing three position switch.

The thick wires are carrying the current to support the pumps and the thin wires are carrying the current to support the relay controls. If your switches are reversing, high amp rated, and near the pumps, then you do not need the relays.

The following link has recommendations for sizing the wires to support pumps of this type.

http://www.jabsco.com/prodInfo/overview/43000-0755_ds.pdf

If you use a relay, the control connections from the switch to the relay can be much smaller. This is the purpose of a relay.

 
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