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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through November 17, 2003 » X10 ballast schematic « Previous Next »
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 5:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Anyone have schematic for '02 X10 ballast system? I'm going to try to piggyback off center ballast pump to add 2 sidesacks under the bow cushions. Intake is on bottom and discharges out the sides. Any help is appreciated.
 
By William (sonicr1) on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 5:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have been thinking about this myself. I was thinking of putting a y adapter before the locker bag (and shut off valves that are easily accessable so that you can turn one side off and the other on), then running the line into the locker, long enough to get to the front of the boat... Then you would have to fill up the center bag, switch the valves, hook it up separately to the sidesacks and fill them. This way will take more time, though. I think this would be the easiest solution. I'd like to hear more suggestions too.
 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 5:07 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
William, I investigated some last night. I think I can just tap into center bag supply/drain line and put valves before center locker/bag and route hose forward through vent compartments and directly into the sacs up front. The supply/drain line for the front 2 bags would follow existing vent lines for the center bag. In picture, notice vent hose lines looping forward. Unless I'm missing something, this could be very easy. No separate hook up required. It'd act just like center ballast does.
BTW - I'll put valves to each individual front bag so I can close one off for wakesurfing.


 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 5:13 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Looking towards bow of boat (passenger side)...here's a pic of where one of the center ballast vent hoses comes through floor and out the side of the boat. Front side sac supply/drain line would come through floor similarly and route forward to sac under front bow cushion. Setup would be similar on driver's side.

 
By William (sonicr1) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 7:04 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
it's definately a better idea to hard line them in if you can!
 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 7:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
In order to avoid drilling holes in the floor, I will simply bring the supply line up through the air duct hose. I'll cut a hole in the duct hose and run the supply line out and to the front. I'll probably give it a try this weekend. I'll keep you posted on what I use and how I did it.
 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 5:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Here's the first layout. Some minor revisions (90deg elbows and such), but it works as is. Center valve will go to center ballast sack. Will post more pics and materials after install.


 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 5:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Valve system pics


 
By William (sonicr1) on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 6:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
do the sacks actually fit under the seats???
 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Friday, September 05, 2003 - 4:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sacks do fit under the seats. Can't fully fill, but you can fill them enough to get what you need. I'm on revision 2 to decrease over valve system size. I'll install tonight or tomorrow and post pics.
 
By Bruce Thomas (sprucie) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 7:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul I have done the same thing with my '02 x10 although my ballast system was from an '01. I put the 250 lbs sacs uder the front seats similar to what you are doing. The result was a much cleaner wake with a better lip.

Then I replaced the hard tanks in the back with 600lbs fatsacs. The resulting wake made me feel like I had to learn everything all over again because of the increased wake size, air time etc. It's great!

The point of my rambling is if you keep adding ballst just be prepared to change props to a lower pitch. I estimate I have 2000lbs of water ballst combined with a full tank and four people you end up with sluggish (for an inboard) holeshot.

Good luck with your system you'll love the end result.

 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 9:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bruce,
Thanks for the comments. Glad I'm on the right track. I had initial run this weekend. Went fine, but my center ballast pump is on the frit. Has been since I bought the boat.
I've already been eyeing the rear ballast. That modification will take place this winter.
Thanks for the pointers.

 
By William (sonicr1) on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 12:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yeah, my center pump is dead... waiting to see what the dealer will do... will I have to pay, ot will they warrantee it!!!
 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 5:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
William,
I found that the hose coming off the manifold and going to the rear pump has a severe bend causing severe water flow restrictions. I'm going to put a couple 90deg elbows in it, but only after I document it with the dealer. Don't know if this restriction causes the pump to work harder and cut out, but it can't be good. Mine work lame, but intermittanly.
On a different note...here's round 1 installed.
Already thinking of round 2 refinements.


 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Monday, September 08, 2003 - 5:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
And a couple more


 
By Fredrik Broen (fbroen) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 10:24 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Looks very neat. What are you going to do for vent/overflow? Or are you just going to let whatever air be in there and shut off when bags are full?
 
By Geforce (grantmi1) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 10:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Damn, us wakeboarders are crazy. Were is this sport going how much weight will we put in our boats in the future. How much horsepower are we gonnna need? I love wakeboarding and am doing basically the same things, but I laugh. I used to be a slalom skier only and I guess I just find it funny. People see us filling our emptying our boats and I think they laugh, heck I do. I mean picture it we pull up to the dock and we have water coming out of every hoel as our boat rises. Also what about storage were are we gonna put stuff. Basically we want a boat full of water, lol. That is funny as all get out. It is wierd not being able to cuss on here. Maybe it is good for me.
 
By Tom Adrian (tommyadrian5) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 11:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I second that, i was reading an article on wakeboarding in general, and it had an interesting piece, in which they talked about how for 25-30 years ski boat manufacturers had been perfecting the smallest wake, and then wakeboarders came along and starting adding water to the boats in order to make the wakes bigger.
 
By Geforce (grantmi1) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 11:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Were is the article?
 
By Jeff Royal (jroyal) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 11:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul, that's a nice looking setup.

BTW, I get all kinds of questions concerning my boat. My favorite is "you pump water INTO your boat?" I just laugh to myself.


 
By Geforce (grantmi1) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 12:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Lol , its nice to know you guys can relate. Definately a nice setup.
 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 1:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Fredrik...whatever air is in there stays in there, but it's very minimal. This winter, I may tap into existing center sack vent lines (it's the black hose in the 2nd to last picture posted.

Yeah...the looks from people standing on the docks who aren't "in the know" are classic when I come in shooting water 3 feet out the sides of the boat! It's like "he must me sinking or something!"

 
By Geforce (grantmi1) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 1:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul that is so funny, I am just picturing that and busting up. He's sinking!!
 
By Scott (oshensurfer) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 2:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul,
I'm not sure what they call them but there is a valve you can put on to the sac that will let air out but not water...I can't remember where I saw it. Anybody???

 
By Bobo (baja) on Tuesday, September 09, 2003 - 4:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul, what is the fill/drain time for all three bags?
BTW, Good work.

 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Wednesday, September 10, 2003 - 4:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bobo...can't answer your question right now. My center ballast pump has been acting up on me (even before addition). Right now, the fill time is maybe around 10 +/- 2mins. Drainage I'm still working out. There's some procedure I'm trying to determine.
BTW - I'm on revision 2 of the valve system. Current MC center ballast fill/drain line loops over gas tank. I'm going to try to run it under so pump doesn't have to pull "up hill" so much. I'll keep you all posted.

 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 8:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Here's rev 2 on valve system. Added red handled ball valve to drain excess water out thru hull. Re-routed fill/drain hose around gas tank rather than over it. Found out center ballast pump has 3 consecutive vanes missing (out of six). Probably having small effect () on the fill and drain of the system. Pics follow...


 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Friday, September 12, 2003 - 8:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Installed pics...


 
By TY-one-on (typhoon) on Wednesday, September 24, 2003 - 10:36 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
funny,
I am doing the same thing with the cross. i did find a poly cross threaded though to make it smaller. did you put the 3/4" tube down in the sac with a hose barb before you hose clamped it? I did that and was a little worried about the metal hose clamp and the sharp edges on the sac. i am thinking about wrapping in black duct tape but what do you think?

btw- nice work on the ballast system.

 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:03 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
What's in the opening of the fatsac is a PVC schedule 40 P-bend tube (reduce chance of sac getting sucked in the tube before the sac was empty). I simply used a hose clamp around the sac threaded opening to close it off. I'm not too worried about the sharp edges, but I suppose putting in a buffer wouldn't hurt. Maybe I'll do the same after the season is over.
 
By TY-one-on (typhoon) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 11:16 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
are you thinking about putting the duct tape in under and over the top of the clamp?
 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Thursday, September 25, 2003 - 5:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Under only. The hose clamp will do the rest.
 
By TY-one-on (typhoon) on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 6:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
i am actually thinking about a different route. i am going to use the plastic quick clic hose clamps they use on the aerator pumps and marine uses.
 
By derek boyer (toyotafreak) on Thursday, October 16, 2003 - 10:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Could we maybe get an update on how the sacks worked under the bow? I've heard the same "you can't get them full" deal from several people, but just wonder how much you think you're getting in there.

What sacks are they? Do you still feel like the air bleed is unimportant?

Last but not least, don't you wish there was a way to use that space higher up inside the forward hull? In my Epic, there's a good 6-8" by 18" by four feet of unused space in the gunnel between hull and bow-seatback.

Normal bags wouldn't do so hot in there cus the space is tall and narrow instead of flat, but there are other things I've been looking at like replacement chambers for special waterbeds - six inch square tubes the length of a bed, each with their own fitting. If somehow these could be stacked, you could easily get six hundred pounds up in the bow without even losing your under-seat storage.

The question remains, how do you stack bags in a tight space? What if each bag rested in a sort of bungee webbing that was strong enough to hold them in place when they're empty? Then, as long as you filled from the bottom-up and emptied from the top-down, you'd be cool. After you fill the bottom one, it will rise to meet the bottom of the second bag. Fill the second and it rises to the level of the third, while its own weight is being supported by the first.

I know, probably smoking crack, but I really don't want to put a sack in the walkway and don't thing the under-seat bags will be enough.

The right answer would be hard tanks in there, but the only way to do that right would be to have it done during construction.

 
By steve (ssjrmk) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 6:27 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
To answer your one question derek, I put 250# sacs under my bow seats the same as paul in my malibu vlx and i measured it out and between the two bags i can add about 300#.
 
By William (sonicr1) on Friday, October 17, 2003 - 6:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Paul, I wanted to mention that I took my boat in and after my mechanic argued with MC regarding the center pumps inlet hose, they finally warranteed the pump. They took out the stock hose and used hard wall tubing... you may want to do the same, if you haven't already. Oh, and they swapped out the battery and put in a 1000cca battery, saying this will solve the pump/amp draw problem.
 
By Guy Dekok (sherminator) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 5:40 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
just a quick question, prolly a silly one, but putting a Y splitter to my existing through hull inlet wont hinder anything will it?!?
 
By Paul Brothers (phat_in_cincy) on Tuesday, October 21, 2003 - 9:49 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Derek...Sacks don't get completey full. I can get about 80% full. Air (or not filling 100%) is not a big deal right now because I don't need the full amount of weight up front. My next project is to rip out hard tanks in rear and add 600lbs sacks. This should even things out a little better. Then I may have to "fine tune" the bow sacks.
Steve...thanks for providing the info.
William...thanks for the update. I was waiting for winter to start my "discussions" with dealer on warranty items.
Guy...I don't know your setup (or your plans) but I'd assume it could if you didn't use check valves.

 
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