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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through November 17, 2003 » my ballast plans « Previous Next »
By dane (greatdane) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 11:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
For the v-drive lockers in my 2000 WakeSetter.

ballast_plans

 
By Cliff Griffin (seattle) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane,

Looks great!

Are you going to use your existing intake or drill another hole in your hull? Did you decide to go with the Simers'?

BTW
You don't need to have two vents and two drains . You can use one of each tied together, and port them out the starboard side so you can watch them.

 
By dane (greatdane) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am going with the Jabscos. Just because of the location of my pumps right near the engine. Call me crazy.

I could use one vent but I like the symmetry and the proximity of the pair.

I need two 3/4" drains or one larger drain for the water bandwidth. So, I chose to go with two 3/4" drains next to my 3/4" vents. Its a nice and symetric design.

JR and I cut and added fittings to 5 holes in my boat last weekend. One 1" in the bilge and two 3/4" on each side.

Its going to nice and clean.

 
By Cliff Griffin (seattle) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 1:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Clever rational. You'll have to post pics when done.
 
By dane (greatdane) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 1:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Another option, adding another check valve, makes the drains separate so that I can see when each bag is drained.

ballast_plans_2

 
By Jeff Altman (jeff_altman) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 1:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane, I ended up putting a PVC check valve on vents, I had a problem with the sack draining as we were pulling riders.
 
By John Richard (jrichard) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 2:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jeff,

Where were your vent locations relative to your sacks? I had a similar problem in an install on my Sport Nautique. I put the vent through-hulls at the back of the boat (to make them line up with the bilge pump through-hulls). Underway, the fittings were slightly below the highest point of the sack and a siphon was created. I assumed that if I'd run the vent lines forward it would have taken care of the problem. Sounds like check valves work, too.

 
By wake_fun (wake_fun) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 3:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane,
I don't get something.
As you pump the water from the intake it passes right by your drain. Couldn't some of the water flow into the drain system before the pump? Or is the pump pulling so hard that no water goes through the check valve into the drain.

 
By dane (greatdane) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 3:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
WF, the drains and vents are high on the sides of the boat. And, the pumps are lower and sucking. So, your concern should not be a problem.
 
By wake_fun (wake_fun) on Friday, August 29, 2003 - 3:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok, thanks.
 
By dane (greatdane) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 9:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
My relay plans.

relay

 
By William (sonicr1) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 10:52 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The way I read this, the "green" and the "blue" represent two wire strands each? (know what I mean?) If not where do the ground wires go?

I haven't been able to locate a relay that will "disconnect" the ground... the relays I have found, say to attach the ground wire (from the motor, pump in this case) to the engine block, which would not work-both wires from the pump would have to be grounded and powered.

Have you researched the relay part number yet... I am looking to put a relay set up in my boat, and have been looking into reversable polarity relays, but don't think they exist (well, I can't find them) for the current we need... but if your design is based on an actual part, I'll buy that instead!!! I don't mind putting together a circuit with two relays instead of searching for one reversable relay!!!

Did I make any sense... it makes sense in my mind, but we won't go there!!!

 
By dane (greatdane) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 11:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
All wires represented are single wires. Only "pumps" should say "pump" (one pump). The relays are switching pwr/gnd (red/blk) to the pwr/gnd of the pump (blu/grn).

Link to relay...

http://www.partsexpress.com//pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=12211401&St=8100&St2=58070299&St3=74139723&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=9682&DID=7

relay

Link to socket...

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Product_ID=9685&CATID=47

socket

Relay connections...

schematic

 
By dane (greatdane) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 11:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Other manifold options...

manifolds

 
By Rod Emerzian (gymboarder) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 11:43 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane,
The plans look great. I do have one question for you. Do you have to have a vent on your bags. I was thinking about a smilar ballast system without the vents. So I consider putting in vents or would it be ok not to.

 
By dane (greatdane) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 11:59 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ya, the bags have two sides to them. I think you could get away with not having a vent but you will loose three things.
1) visual queue of when the bags are full, 2) protection from over-filling bag and 3) escape route for air in system.

 
By LARRY LAW (larry_lover) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 1:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
BALLAST??? JUST FILL BAGS WITH PUMPS TO MUCH MARGIN FOR ERROR WITH DRILLING HOLES AND RUNNING PIPE AND ITS NOT GOING TO WORK ANYWAY YOUR GOING TO SINK YOUR BOAT.

 
By Tom Barnard (tlb) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 2:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
who is this guy?
 
By Rod Emerzian (gymboarder) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 4:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have no idea Tom.
 
By Phimple (phimple) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 6:36 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Larry, mate you need to take a look at your caps lock and get off those drugs because they sure aren't performance enhancing ones.....
 
By Wes (wes_the_gimp) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 7:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Looks great. Question, why the drainlines and check valves? Thanx.
 
By Wes (wes_the_gimp) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 7:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Is it so you can see when the bags are done draining?
 
By dane (greatdane) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 7:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I guess I could do without the vents - the bags would just have some air.

And, I guess I could do without the drain lines - assuming the pumps can pump the water back out the bottom of the boat.

Do people do it this way?

 
By Wes (wes_the_gimp) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 8:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I copied Ty and some other guys on here. My Simmer fills and drains the bow/locker sac through the existing through hull. I did install a vent, but no other drain line or check valve. The pump holds the H2O in when in the off position. When draining I pull the floor access panel to see when its close to empty. We finish pumping out on the trailer. Your schematic and relays are the same as mine. Works great!
 
By dane (greatdane) on Saturday, August 30, 2003 - 9:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ya, the only reason for the check valves is for the draining over the side.

I had never considered pumping the water back out the hole it came. This really works?

I had also never considered not having a vent.

I guess both drains and vents are nice features in that they provide visual cues about full/empty, yet they are a lot of extra work for this benefit.

 
By Cliff Griffin (seattle) on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 1:27 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane,

My system fills and drains through the intake under the boat. The drain time is two minutes longer than filling if the boat is setting. If the boat is moving there is little difference.

 
By Joe Hiestand (superairdawg) on Wednesday, September 03, 2003 - 5:42 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yeah, I run two Simers to fill 3 bags and I also fill/drain through the same hole in the hull. It definitely works. I don't have vents either, but I have to pay attention to my bags so I don't overfill. The main benefit and reason I went with this system was simplicity, however I don't have the convenience of hands-off filling since I have to monitor bag levels, plus I don't have a visual cue for when they're empty. A final consideration is that all those check valves will obstruct to some degree and slow down your fill/empty times.

I have to admit it looks rad when draining above the waterline, tho! Might have to incorporate that into my system eventually.

 
By Cliff Griffin (seattle) on Thursday, September 04, 2003 - 7:34 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dane,

I tied all three bags together and ran them to the bilge port for my venting. All I did was put an inline check valve below them to prevent overflow from running down into the pump.

 
By Danny Simon (wakerider42) on Saturday, September 06, 2003 - 2:39 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
i dont understand why you guys get all crazy and complicated with relays, checks, all kinds of complicated stuff. Isnt the simplest way generally the best? here we go....

rear v drive sacks: get ones that have a drain port in the bottom (i have launch pad ones). IF you have an available hole in the bilge area of your boat, thread a Rule pump into it, run it to a flap style check valve (to prevent back flow out of the bag while underway), T it off and run it to both bags. Next, on the other valve on top of the bag, run a vent to a through hull fitting. On each bag, run another rule pump or comparable directly in the bottom of the bag and Y that into the same through hull. One through hull for each bag's drain/vent. Works perfect. Overflows out the side of the boat when its done filling, drains out the same through hull. No relays or BS wiring. Come on, keep it simple.

 
By dane (greatdane) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 3:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
1) The relay is not needed if you have a reversing switch and the switch is close to the pump.

2) The drain connection and associated check valves are only needed if you want the visual cue of "drained".

3) The vent connection is only needed if you want the visual cue of "filled".

 
By dane (greatdane) on Sunday, September 14, 2003 - 4:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Also...

#2 (drain) helps save the pump from running dry.

#3 (vent) helps save the bag/boat from bursting.

 
By Barry Boes (barryb) on Tuesday, September 16, 2003 - 2:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Here's a schematic of a way to do the relays.
It's shown common supply (+12). If you want common ground, reverse pins 4 & 5 on the relays.

I'd strongly recommend relays close to the battery and heavy gauge wire to prevent voltage drops. Running wiring for a DPDT switch from the back of the boat to the front then back again requires very heavy gauge wires to run a couple of pumps.



relay schematic

 
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