|I need some help. Here's what I'm dealing with 03 Supra Launch SSV. This thing has been running flawless this season. I just got back from a week trip where we used the boat all week without any probs. I go to drop in the water today, friends came from 1.5 hours away to ride, and it doesn't run right. Here's what happened. I put it in the water, and my cousin drives it back from the trailer and ties it to the dock and leaves it running for appx 10 min before he shuts it down. Starts fine, idles fine, all seems normal. I get back to the dock, fire it up...starts fine, idles fine, I put it in gear and it sounds fine as we pull away from the dock. As I go to give it just a little gas it kinda bogs down and won't go. Put it back to neutral and everything looks and sounds fine, so I try it again...same thing. We tried this in neutral and in gear and at about 1500 RPMs it would bog down, my cousin described it more like a "miss", but I think it more a bog. Sorry no technical terms here. I notice temp is around 200, it normally rides around 170ish. Lastly, we gear it back to the dock and turn it off. Then fire it up one more time, still starts and idles fine, but neutral 1500 RPMS it cuts out again and then it started making a chirping noise so we just shut it down and pulled it out. This was a really sucky day. any idea?|
|Mine has done the same thing on an '06 Supra 21v. If you're idling for any length of time, turn on the blower. I always turn mine on now when idling. It cools the fuel pump. If you forget and it does that, throw some water on the fuel pump. Got that info straight from the dealer which they said came from Skiers Choice and Indmar.|
|I would say all is correct, about what Hawk said but to me the chirping noise sounded more like a slight squeal, Hawk?? The boat actually did feel more like it was bogging down than missing |
|temp at 200???? |
I'm guessing you have already checked the impeller?
|Bogging at low rpm sounds like fuel filter.|
|Does it have a limp mode where if the engine overheats the electronics will only let the motor idle? My brothers Mastercraft acted crazy like that one time and it was because the motor was overheating.|
|fuel filter/ impeller. $50 and hopefully your on your way.|
|It's not the fuel filter, that wouldn't explain the high temp, also the vapor lock issue that was being discussed wasn't an issue on the ssv. |
It is going into limp mode because of the high temp.
Here's how to fix it,
The trans cooler is clogged, it's a black tube on the drivers side of the motor down by the floor. It has a metal screen on the front side of it that keeps junk from getting sucked into the motor. When it gets clogged it will starve the motor for water and cause it to run hot. Just unhook the hose from the intake side and dig the grass or whatever you got in there out. Since this will be the first time you cleaned it out it's not a bad idea to take it all the way out and back flush it with water to get everything out of it. No big deal, five minute fix and next time you won't miss a day riding because of it.
Check the impeller while you're at it, it may have burned up from running dry, possibly the chirping sound you heard the last time.
(Message edited by ridininmd on July 19, 2009)
|i think its water in the fuel. pull a spark plug and see if there is rust or water drops on it.|
|thanks all for the input. Keep any input coming. I don't think it was blower cuz it was on the whole time. I just always leave it on now after reading a few post on here. I immediately thought impeller when I saw the temp gauge, but haven't checked it yet. We were heading out for an evening set so it was gettin pretty dark. I was curious about this "limp mode" because I didn't know it has a limp mode, but it I almost felt like the bogging was possibly a preventative shut down feature to do not do more damage. I really hope so. |
I think you maybe onto something Limo cuz my last week of vacation was in the Columbia at Chelan falls and there was a lot of milfoil type stuff that we were wading through to get to shore. I wouldn't run my prop through it, but the boat was still running while passing through. I'll check that for sure. A five minute fix would be nice. Wish I would've had that knowledge yesterday, that's something we could've possibly checked while we were on the boat and been ridin. Sorry Todd. You owned a boat for years...why didn't you know about this?
Then lastly, sorry to ask dumb questions, but I may be the least mechanically inclined person you'll meet...where is the fuel filter and impeller located? It sounds like all suggestions are simple fixes so maybe its time I get my hands dirty. Okay, one more question...is a fuel filter something you can check to see if its bad, and if so what am I looking for? Or is it just something you replace to rule out fuel filter?
|I agree with limo tinted. The impeller will squel when it isn't getting water. |
Like he said pull that hose off the trans cooler and make sure there is nothing in it. Then follow the line up to the water pump and check the impeller. I would almost garuntee that is what is wrong. If the impeller is in pieces pull the hoses areound the water pump and try and find all the pieces.
Don't run the boat till you get these items done.
|From what you're saying it's the trans cooler for sure. You may get lucky on the impeller. If not it's a $20 part, still no big deal, it's a pain to change if you have big hands, but it's not too bad. There was a lot of grass around my old ramp so I ran into the same problem a few times. The first time we freaked out and pulled the boat. Once we had fixed it once we could do it while we were still on the water. |
Once you get the trans cooler cleaned out just follow the hoses like Brett said up to the impeller. It's in a black housing on the back of the motor. There are three or four screws to take the cover off it. If all the fins are there you're probably good to go. But if it hasn't been replaced for a while it wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and do it now.
With the temp where it was you were in limp mode for sure. It keeps you from running high rpms when the motor is hot. Basically lets you "limp" back to the dock.
Don't worry about the fuel filter for now, it's not the problem. But yeah, you do just replace it to rule it out. A clogged fuel filter would cause issues similar to the engine's limp mode because it will starve it for fuel. But the high engine temp rules that out for now.
|so I got into a little this morning. I think I found the trans cooler. I can't seem to locate a screen that I can remove, but I reached inside and pulled out some cardboard type stuff. I really hope this was gunk on a not some sort of gasket that was supposed to be there... I thought I better stop since I'm not even certain it is the trans cooler I'm messing with. Here are some pics of what I am thinking you described as the trans cooler and the stuff I pulled out of it. Also, a pic shows what i think is the impeller cover? I removed it so I hope that is it, how do I remove the impeller itself? I can't see it at all is hidden and I have no idea what I'm doing. Thanks for your help. Also, please confirm any of my doubts please, is that black tube the trans cooler, and is that cover the impeller cover that I removed? thanks. |
|are impellers a universal item or is it a specific impeller for my boat year, make, and model? Do I need a new gasket for the cover? And lastly are these available at most marine stores or dealers only or online stores? My nearest dealer is about 2 hours away...|
|Yup that's the trans cooler, there isn't a gasket in there so whatever is in there is causing your problem. The screen isn't removable, if there is a lot of stuff in there go ahead and take it all the way out and spray a hose through it from the back side to flush everything out. Just make sure to keep the ends of the trans lines up when you unhook them or they'll leak a little trans fluid out on your carpet. |
You've got the impeller too, maybe grab a small mirror so you can take a look at it. To get it out I've used a couple small screwdrivers and just worked it out little by little.
|The impeller will come with the new gasket. Most marine store will have them, otherwise you can order it from skidim.|
|I take it the impeller isn't supposed to look like this? What if I can't find all the pieces cuz there appears to be a lot missing... |
|i've also heard of a yellow impeller that is better?|
|You need a new impeller for sure. The yellow ones people talk about are for ballast pumps. Here's the one you need. A local marine shop may carry it also. |
You need to try and find all the pieces before you run the boat again. They can block your cooling passages and lead to trouble. Most of them will probably be in the back of the impeller housing, I think there is a screen there, but I don't remember for sure. Follow you cooling hoses from the impeller housing and disconnect them to check for pieces.
|so I'm pulling off some hoses and finding a lot of impeller pieces. I will keep pulling off whatever hoses seem to be connected and in line with the water pump. Another question comes up...if I don't get all the pieces what happens? will they just get sucked up and out the exhaust? Should I take any drastic measures to flush the the engine..if thats even possilbe?|
|here's what I've pulled out so far. Lots of pieces. I've cleaned out all the hoses up to where it meets then engine, I'm guessing that's the intake? If its in there, probably can't do much about it. |
|I guess at this point, should I just put it back together and install a new impeller? good to go?|
|Looks like you have done a good job of pulling the pieces out. I would throw a new impeller in and give it a try.|
|Isn't the pump before the t-stat. If so then worse case is the pieces got that far. Might want to check that far so you have flow through the t-stat or youll still overheat. When my Sanger had the trans cooler plug up I had to run a clothes hanger down the tubes to punch a few of them clear.|
|I would put it back together and run it. The crap cant get pass the thermostat, and the stuff that can won't do any harm and will just be spit out. I would definitely start it up and get it up to temp and make sure it's not plugged up anywhere else and I would pull the thermostat out and give it a good look over.|
|again, the ignorance, but where is the thermostat located? I removed all hoses up to the intake, is it after? |
So I purchased a new impeller. It's a Jabsco K series which says on the package Johnson 812 (which is the one that burned up). It appears to be a match, but it doesn't come with a new gasket. The old gasket seems to be fine, can it be reused? Or do I need to find a place to get a new gasket? I would just order from skidim, but that's gonna keep me down for over a week as I am all the way across the country from them.
|I have reused the gasket numerous times, some rtv would not hurt anything except that next time it will almost guarentee that you will need a new gasket. |
On the transmission oil cooler take the hose off the other end and run some water backwards through it to clean out any debris.
|The t-stat is at the top of the hosing where the two bolts are in the last pic I believe if Im looking at it right. Youll need a new gasket if youve never taken it out and then you might as well just change it out if your going to that much trouble.|
|Hawk- I seem to recall mententioning the impeller as the culprit when we were on the boat, and we were have problems, and I know it didn't take 5 min to take the impeller out and get all the crap out of those hoses. |
Maybe you should grab a second impeller and keep it in the boat
And Rich it right, the t-stat is right where those 2 hoses come together and those 2 maybe 3 bolts are.
|impeller was obvious with overheating, but Limo nailed it with the clogged trans cooler. We may have not even had the impeller prob if we had realized the trans cooler was clogged. So far that seems to be the case, but time will tell when I get it all put back together. I'm really curious if there is anything before the transcooler that could be missing a gasket because it's dried out now and it really looks like a gasket material... |
So I guess the same question for T-stat, is just universal or specific for my boat and can I pick one up locally or do I have to orderj online. If there relatively inexpensive I wouldn't mind just replacing it to make sure and check for more impeller pieces.
|Call gonnasons and see what it is, maybe they have it. You saved a crap load of money fixin it yourself. Thank goodnees its nothin major.|
|It wont be too expensive. Its just like a car one except you obviously need to get the right temp range. Its worth it. Unless you want to miss another day on the water and hear Todd say I told you so.|
|I don't really think you're going to need to replace the t-stat. It wouldn't be a bad idea to pull it and check for any more debris though. Otherwise throw it on the fake a lake let it get up to temp and make sure it's cooling. You should be good to go at this point. There isn't a gasket before the trans cooler, that line runs straight to your raw water pickup. So it must have been something in the water. |
I agree with you on the blockage in the cooler causing the impeller damage. That stuff in there doesn't look like it was letting any water through at all. And it doesn't take long at all for an impeller to break up if you run it dry.
If for some reason you do need a T-stat you can pick it up at any parts store, it's not marine specific.
|There is a gasket there also right? can I just reuse that as well?|
|My thermostat was marine specific and I purchased a new one from the dealer and it come with a gasket. Your thermostat is probably fine but it is a cheap replacement ($10). I am thankful that my SAN has a strainer before the trans cooler so these sorts of things never end up creating that much of a clog in the cooling system.|
|No need to buy a new a thermostat is it is not damaged. |
Want to test it, Take it out, boil some water, throw it in the water and see if it opens. If it opens, take it out and watch it close as it cools down. If it does those 2 things then it is working as intended and no need for a new one.
I wouldn't even do that if it looks good. Just look for debris and stick it back together.
You can buy a gasket or just get some gasket making material and make your own, I have even just used red silicone with no gasket at all. Contrary to what most people say, it will work fine and seal forever.
Make sure you get the thermostat in the correct way and that it is in it's groove when you put the cap back on or you could split the casing or bend the thermostat. The casing is just cast iron and will crack very easily.
(Message edited by lilsumo on July 21, 2009)
|I'm probably being over cautious,but being my first real boat I don't think I can be too cautious. I figured I would pull off and clean out the hoses before the transcooler in case any of the debris it picked up was still in the hoses, but tracking the hoses it it looks like the water from the lake travels up to this big block (sorry no clue, vdrive maybe?), thru it, then out to the hose which leads to the transcooler. so if it was indeed picked up from the lake, it had to pass through this block, could there still be some bits in there and can I clean it out|
|Yes that would be the v-drive. If you have an air compressor you could remove the hoses and blow air through it or a shop vac and try to suck it out.|
|I just had to pull my trans cooler on my '06 Supra 21V due to clogging which caused the hose to blow! But the way mine is routed the impeller can't run dry due to a clogged trans cooler because it is upstream. Now if the impeller comes apart it can clog the trans cooler.|
|Thanks everyone. I got it all put back together today. Put it on the lake and even went for a quick set. Runnin good. |
Limo thanks man. You were really helpful.
One last question just so I understand my temp gauge. This last pic shows where my temp usually holds and held all day today during my lake test after I got it all put back together. The gauge goes from 135, then a notch, then 180. I've been guessing that it is around 170ish. It's below 180 so I'm guessing its fine, but just curious why there is such a big gap in numbers and at its current location, would you guess that is closer to 160?
|Awesome-I'll be up today|
|Just a guess, but it might be the range the temp jumps between the thermostat being open and closed. Mine has a fairly big jump once I put a load on it, vs just sitting there idling.|
|I just did 135+180/2=158 so yeah pretty much 160. Cool to hear you are learning to do all the stuff on your boat man, it's great to not need anyone for the little stuff.|
|Glad you got it going, you saved yourself a bunch of money there.|