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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through July 28, 2009 » Faster ballast fill? '08 Supra « Previous Next »
By Travis (fman) on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 1:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have an '08 SUPRA Sunsport 22V, (gravity III ballast system) I have nothing but great things to say about this boat so far. I have put 73 hours on it this year and it has been nothing but fun for my family. What a great all around wakeboard/family boat...

There is one complaint I have about this boat, I added the larger 750 rear sacs (for surfing purposes) for a 1900 lb ballast system. They are taking quite awhile to fill up, driving the boat while filling definitely speeds up the process but I am trying to find out if anyone has done anything to modify the fill system to increase the fill speed.

I figured with 1900 lbs of ballast it is roughly about 228 gallons of water to completely fill up all three system (water weighs 8.33 pounds per gallon / 1900 lbs = 228 gallons). I believe the Supra pump is rated at 20 GPM, which works out to be about a 11 minute fill for everything. We are not skilled enough wakeboarders to require a complete fill of all bags yet, I am just looking for a way to decrease the fill time no matter what areas are filled.

I know the '09s have gone to an impeller driven fill system with three seperate pumps, which is supposed to be about 300% faster. I wanted to know if its possible to replace the current pump with a larger GPM pump? Talked to Skiers Choice, they said it would be a major project to convert it to the '09 system.

Any input appreciated.

Thanks....

 
By Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu) on Thursday, July 09, 2009 - 2:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
easeist way IMO, is to just add a seperate fill pump ( rule 2500) for the rear bags. Right now (I think) you have one large fill for all three bags. Some have started playign witht he valves, but I still think adding another pump is much easier.
 
By Spencer Welch (spencerwm) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 8:55 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
http://moomba.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=7373
 
By Aquaholic (zacharoo) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 5:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Call and talk with Jason at Makemakers.com I have an XLV and I am changing out my sprinkle system with 3 tsumini 800 gph pumps. If my math is right thats 200 gallons in 15 minutes and thats just one pump. I'll shoot some pic's when i install everything. I have to wait on a shipment from them on the adaptors that let me directly attach to the gray manifold. They were great to me.
 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 6:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
fman I found the thread that I created about this that had really good information, but it's in the archives and won't open.
 
By Travis (fman) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 7:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
JB,

Found some info on wakemakers.com they offer two types of upgrades to the system:

1. Replace the stock single fill pump and valve manifold system with three individual fill pumps, one for each bag. In addition to increasing the theoretical fill capacity from 2000GPH to 2400GPH (or higher), the big speed up will be removing the restrictive sprinkler valves.

2. Replace the three restrictive sprinkler valves with quarter-turn solenoid valves. These work the same way, but donít limit flow at all when open. They are expensive though, at around $60 each.

Apparently, option 1 is what they recommend for less cost and better results. The sprinkler valves reduce flow by 50%, which is huge. I am going to give them a call on Monday to find out more information. I will keep this thread updated....

 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 7:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
There was a group buy going on through there, so when you talk to them mention being a member of supraboats.com
 
By Mark Manzo (tazz3069) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 9:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have already finished my upgrade from Jason's suggestions. I will test it this coming week. Here are a few pictures. I also had the sprinkler valve setup. CRAP in my opinion. I install 3 1200 gph Tsunami pumps, three scuppers, three vented loops. Here are a few pictures. By the way I own a 07' Moomba LSV
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2689.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2700.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2701.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2702.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2705.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x13/tazz3069/CIMG2706.jpg[/IMG]

(Message edited by tazz3069 on July 10, 2009)

 
By Travis (fman) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 9:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mark,

Let us know how it works... looks like you did a great job on the conversion.

I am contacting wakemakers next week to see what my options are. How much $ did it end up costing you to do the complete conversion? Did you contact wakemakers or put it together yourself? Looks like with 3 1200's you should be pushing around 20 GPM per line, that should be much quicker.

One other question for you, do the Tsunami pumps self prime?

(Message edited by fman on July 10, 2009)

(Message edited by fman on July 10, 2009)

 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 10:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I use one of those for an external bag and they do a really good job priming.
 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Friday, July 10, 2009 - 10:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Empties a 600# bag in less than a minute.
 
By Mark Manzo (tazz3069) on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 5:00 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Jason from www.wakemakers.com helped me with the vented loops idea. I wanted to upgrade my one 500gph to 3 1200gph pumps. I have tried it a couple of ways. All which did not work. I really hope this works. Even though I live in Vegas, I will be going to Northern Calif. on a family trip plus the test. Jason had told me that with the vented loops, this will be plumbed just like the Malibu boats. I hope so. I will post results after the test. I just hope I can get internet access up there! I also had to order 20' of ballast hose to complete the job.

(Message edited by tazz3069 on July 11, 2009)

 
By Travis (fman) on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Have not looked (at work today), but I believe the Supra uses a seperate pump to empty on each bag. Does anyone know the GPM flow on these? When I do this, I might look into speeding up the empty time as well. When surfing it would be nice to also be able to empty quicker to change sides of the boat.

And when you installed the tsunamis how does water not fill the bags when driving the boat??? I know the s-valves are there to aleviate this problem.

 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 6:06 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The dump pump on the center of my boat was an 800gph I think. I just had to replace it because carpet strands somehow got into it and keep locking it up.
 
By Travis (fman) on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 6:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Could you replace the dump pump with a 1200 GPH tsunami?
 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 6:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Probably. The center one on mine is real easy to get to. I haven't dug around for the rear pumps yet.
 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Saturday, July 11, 2009 - 7:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Don't see why not.
 
By d powers (brainrinse) on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 5:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mark, did you go with reversible pumps or did you keep your drain pumps as is?
 
By Travis (fman) on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 11:03 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Got in contact with Jason at wakemakers. There are three options to changing the system.

First is JABSCO reversible impeller driven pumps, they also act as a check valve so the bags wont fill up when driving the boat. $240/each x 3 pumps is a little pricey. Jason said fill times will be cut in half with these because of removing the sprinkler valves. You can use this pump to drain and fill, its reversible and has a 10 foot draft capability from 100% priming all the time. Although, little confused on how a 9 GPM pump (540 GPH) can pump 90 gallons of water in 5.5 minutes? This is the easiest conversion, by removing sprinkler valves and replacing with JABSCO pumps, but also the most expensive ($800 with all parts needed). Downfall to these pumps if you run themn dry they will burn up and damage the impeller. He did say you can just use them to fill the bags and leave the current drain pumps on the sacs (aerator style, wont damage running dry). These are the pumps Mastercraft, and the new Supra '09s are using.

Next is the Tsunami 800's (aerator style), replacing the sprinkler valves. Need to grind or replace the current scupper so water will not be forced into the system. Also need the J tube vents to help eliviate bags from filling when driving. Cost is around $300 to do this. They pump 13 GPM, which again still does not add up to a 5.5 min fill time on a 90 gallon bag. Nice thing is on all these systems you will have a seperate pump for each bag.

Last is the Tsunami 1200's, similiar to the 800 setup but a little more involved making them adapt to the 3/4" line/manifold system. Jason said you only increase fill times by about 30 seconds on a 90 gallon bag.

I am getting in contact with him again today to find out about the GPM flow not adding up to the fill times he sent me. Unless these pumps are heavily under-rated.

I will keep you posted....

(Message edited by fman on July 15, 2009)

 
By packrat (packrat) on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 5:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
As far as the Tsunami 1200's go if you like those but want to stay with the 3/4" line then buy an 800 tsunami aerator (cheap online) then buy just the Tsunami 1200 replacement cartridge. The 1200 will fit in the 800 Tsunami housing and that way you can keep the 3/4" fittings. Attwood also sells a mounting bracket that fits the pump too for only a couple of bucks.
 
By Travis (fman) on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 7:30 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
packrat,

Thats good to know... thanks for the info. I just ordered the 800's today to start my project. Ending up going with the tsunamis because of GPM flow and price. The JABSCO's are very expensive and put out less GPMs. Jason at wakeworld says they had good results with the tsunami's holding up to the elements in the vdrive compartment.

I will shoot some pics over of the project once I get started, hopefully next week.

 
By DC Bateman (dcb) on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 12:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I got rid of the sprinkler valves and use the stock pump to fill the gg front bag, two tsunami 800s fill the back 750s. Took out the scupper and put in three seperate mushroom tru-hulls. Stock on the drain side. Fills fast and no problems with self filling while driving.
 
By Jason (loonytik) on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 1:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Take out the springs in the valve....you will get much better flow.
 
By Mark Manzo (tazz3069) on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 9:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I kept the drain pumps as is. I did run into a few problems with my system. The bags filled with I was going. The scuppers are not a good idea. Jason from wakemakers.com is sending me some thru-hull fittings. He said this should fix the problem. I will let you know when they get here, installed and tested. I do need to get the gel coat fixed. Oh Well.
 
By John Bauer (jonyb) on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 9:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I sent Jason a message on wm.com a few days ago, but still haven't gotten a response
 
By Travis (fman) on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 10:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you have a scupper (intake grate with scoop)you need to remove it from the boat and grind off the scoop and grate. Its very soft and easy to work with. Or you can order thru-hull fittings for $30. I am going to use my existing intake grate and grind off the scoop, saves a little cash and end result will be the same, also the 4 screw holes can still be utilized. With a thru-hull fitting you will have to patch or have some gelcoat work done to fill the screw holes.
 
By packrat (packrat) on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 6:14 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just for reference even though the Tsunami 1200 cartridge fits in the Tsunami 800 housing they do not work as the impeller is bigger. I found out the hard way.
 
By Mark Manzo (tazz3069) on Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 5:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
did not think about grinding off the bottom part of the scupper. I should of thought of that before ordering the new fittings. Oh well. I wanted to take the boat in to fit a few things anyways.
 
By Travis (fman) on Sunday, July 19, 2009 - 12:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mark,

I just pulled the grate this morning and grinded the scupper and grate off. Its back on the boat awaiting my parts to arrive monday to finish the connection of the pumps. Hardest part about the entire project was cleaning off all the left over silicone. Its a little tight working conditions down by the grate inside the boat, took about 3 hours to complete this part of the project. I have everything from the old system stripped and off the boat.

I am taking pictures as I go, when I am finished I am going to post them all up.

 

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