|By AMO (amo) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 2:10 pm:
|I have always used regular gas powered engines to pull my boats, but everyone on this site has peaked my interest about at least looking into a diesel tow vehicle. I'd like to know, what is the best engine on the market knowing I am not loyal to any brand. Which has the least amount of problems, best gas milage, towing capacity, etc. Thanks|
|Just engine or total truck?|
|Pass the popcorn, please..... |
My Ultimate Truck:
Cummins 5.9, Allison/GMC trans, in a 08-09 Ford Super Duty body.
|24 valve cummins 5.9L prior to the mid model year 6.7L change in 2007. |
Great mileage and power without the added emissions added in late 07.
IMO of course.
X2 on meatheads dream truck
(Message edited by bstroop on February 19, 2009)
|By AMO (amo) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 2:41 pm:
|Ok, I guess I have to do it this way......good call Hate. |
Overall best diesel truck tow rig, gas milage, tow capacity, seat capacity, maintenance. The whole nine yards.
|7.3 Powerstroke ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! |
OK OK OK I know the 5.9 is awesome, hey I'm a Ford guy.
|X3 for meathead. Although the old 7.3's in the Fords are gold also.|
|By AMO (amo) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 2:44 pm:
|Something new '08 or '09 model year.|
|Is it true that the new diesels have some sort of emission laws that make the newest diesels just as bad on fuel economy as similar gas powered trucks. Soemthing about a cannister that uses exhaust heat to burn off something? |
I had a friend that just bought a new Dodge and the dodge and ford dealers both told him that it isn't worth getting the diesel anymore unless you tow a lot.
Are you just asking our opinion on the engine, or do you want to know which truck we think is better overall?
|By RJ (wakedv) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 2:58 pm:
|I had my Duramax reprogrammed, 75HP more and improved my mileage 30%, California emission standards kill the pony's. The cannister is in the Ford's I think? |
I wouldn't run a diesel if I didn't pull a holiday trailer, love the power though! Had the truck for 21/2 years, no problems yet
|By AMO (amo) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 3:02 pm:
|Mike, which truck out of all the diesel trucks out there is the best overall, that is what i am asking. Thanks. I'm new to the diesel thing and there are a lot of people on this site with what seems to be great knowledge about diesel trucks. Just want to tap into that a bit.|
The 6.7L cummins has a DPF diesel particulate filter. It uses some of the trucks fuel injected onto some sort of catylist to burn off all the soot. A couple of my buds have them and they do not get any better mileage than a gasser. Maybe a little better towing but not enough to justify the cost of the engine. If you only care about the pulling power then they're great.
|Are you thinking of a catalytic converter? I know they are making bus companys put catalytic converters in to reduce emissions. I didn't think those affected gas mileage though. |
We tow our boat with a 2004 Excursion with a Powerstroke Diesel V8. It tows like a dream and has average mileage (19-20 mpg i think). Has a huge tank too, and runs from central Illinois to Arkansas on one tank.
|Hmm, I think I'm gonna go with the Ford on this one. Not biased at all I honestly do believe it is the best and nicest of them all as well as the most capable. Their all nice though|
|My Ford Gripe: My 08 F250, 6.4 PSD, filtered exhaust, stock powertrain, lifted with 37's...gets crap mileage. My 06 Dodge 3500 dually would get me 14-16 around town, this Ford is barely breaking into the 12's. |
Will it get better as it breaks in? My Cummins took a big (2-3) mpg jump after the motor got about 20K under it's belt.
Also, for you truck guys: Can I run a programmer on this Ford without screwing the exhaust scrubber feature, voiding the warranty, etc?
|By AMO (amo) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 3:49 pm:
|I don't know. I just built 2 diesel trucks on the websites, a GMC, and a Ford, seems like a high price to pay for nothing but torque. Need to check out Dodge, but I think they're all competitive.|
I would have to go with Ford as well. For one, they are in the best shape of the big 3. So, that 100K mile warranty might still be around to use. Also, Fords tend to have the best resale value with Chevy then Dodge following in that order. Engine wise, the new ford international motor has had some issues, but I think they have gotten them figured out. Fords also in my opinion look the best, because it is the only truck that doesn't look like its half ton counterparts. An F-150 and an F-250/350 are easily distinguished from one another. The new ford interiors are awesome also.
So, all around I say Ford. If you're just looking for the best motor, then Dodge. Chevy has the best tranny and fuel mileage. But, overall Superduty.
|Thats what we're seeing from guys that are getting above the 20k mark. We have a used one on the lot with 45k and and average if 15 MPG. You're not that bad with a lift and 37's though. |
Programmers will possible void the warranty if they can detect it (there are some that leave no foot print) and if they can trace back any problems to it.
On my 06' 6.0 that sucker was stuck at like 12 to 13 MPG combined driving until after 30K miles. Then it jumped pretty good to 15 combined driving and I can get about 18-19 highway if I am not towing.
|I get 21 out of my 02 duramax--had a 7.3 ford before, after 20K miles and 6K in repairs--got the duramax, my friend has a 6.0 for, died and ford would not warrenty at 10k miles, bought a gasser, other friend has a 6.0 ford--in the shop--no idea on dodges so I have no opinion--love the duramas and the mileage and very low maintainance just my $.02 (none of the abouve trucks are chipped either--when my 7.3 did run, I got about 19 mpg)|
|7.3!!!!! POWERSTROKE new truck get a new 6.4 ford|
|Any of you math whiz types that can tell me what percentage my speedo is off running 37's vs. the stock 275/70R18's?|
Ask the guys who drive them
I tow the Condo & Boat so I need the power, I have an 07 GMC w/ 35,000 06 Chev w/ 89,000 03 GMC w/ 162,000, 03 Chev w/ 146,000 not one issue (GM replaced the injectors in the 03s) unloaded 18 towing 14. Plus I run 100% Bio in everything.
|Forgot the Pic |
|I've had 3 7.3 liter Ford's and no major problems at all. One had 225K, one had 165K, and the one I drive now has 144K. With stock tires I always got around 22-23 MPG, the truck I have now has 38's and 4.56 gears and I still get about 16MPG towing. |
|6.6 duramax hands down!|
|By AMO (amo) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 5:17 pm:
|Man, if I could be guaranteed 16 towing, I would buy one tomorrow!|
|that one is for sale|
|I took my time and hunted a 7.3 powerstroke two wheel drive instead of four.Its curb weight is over a thousand less and theres no transfer case or front axle to screwup. |
Also the best for mileage.
|16 towing i get 18.5 towing my 08 23lsv doing 70 Find A 7.3!!|
|i drive a 06 chevy duramax 2500 and love it. |
chevys have more power and have the best transmissions ever built. it gets decent mileage but the dodge trucks do get better mileage. most hot shot company (people who hall heavy loads) usaully have dodge truck due to getting better mileage even if it is 1-3 mpg. fords have the beefiest frame and the biggest brakes but the motor and tranny problems are endless. at work we had both chevy and ford diesels and the fords were always in the shop and had to fight for the warranty to cover the issues. the chevys were always dependable. i get 16 hwy 12 towing a 15000 ibs with a lifted truck. chevy's have more power, the allison transmission and a smoother ride. i also believe the interior is alot nicer than any other truck.
|There is a particulate filter eliminater kit , includes a pipe to get rid of the filter and a computer upgrade to work around the filter,we installed kit on 08 Ford and picked up 5 miles per gallon! What happens is when you have a performance computer chip it makes more particulate so the filter plugs then the truck goes into regeneration mode which pumps more fuel to burn it out, your mileage goes down the tubes. This kit made by SCT keeps the truck from regenerating because no filter to plug and viola 5 to 7 miles per gal better.The filter was a knee jerk fix when the feds said lower particulate, so it fixed that prob but guess who pays the cost with poor mileage, us!|
|I vote duramax, especially if you are getting a newer truck. The new ones with the emissions. The duramax has seemed to take to the emissions standards better then the other two. Just my opinion. I do love the look of the 08 f250's tho.|
|6.6 LBZ Duramax. The last good Duramax before all the emissions crap. It is almost impossible to upgrade a new diesel engine with a PDF without voiding your warranty yea sure you could by pass the DPF and chip it but your dealer will find out and than your sol. |
Iím happy I filled up yesterday for less than $50 diesel is only $2.29 here.
|My company runs about 15 Ford's and about 15 GMC's and our maintenance records indicate that our Duramax's have very few issues compared to our Powerstrokes. My fleet operates under what is considered severe conditions by the owners manual at almost a full time basis. Both are strong, dependable powertrains, however, with my experiences I would recommend the Duramax. It is what I have in my personal vehicle and I love it. I have very little experience with Cummins engines other than in some of my construction equipment which is such a different platform that it would not make a fair comparison. Modern diesel engines are much more advanced than 10 years ago. They are quieter, cleaner, and have better cold weather start-ups than their predecessors. Their towing capabilities are unmatched by gasoline engines in my opinion.|
|I love my diesel. I bought a Ford because I love the interior space. 6 People is totally comfortable with the bench seats and the rear passengers have plenty of leg room. The bed is also about 5" wider than the dodge or chevy. |
Everyone gripes about the 6.0 PSD, but I've yet to have a single hiccup. I run a programmer with a moderage 60hp gain. It picked up a few MPG's, too. My all over average is 17.0 MPG. Which is better than any truck I've ever owned. That includes around town, freeway, trips to the mountains and towing. Fuel for a trip to the mountains costs 1/2 of what I used to get in my Chevy Tahoe. It's also better than my V6 Toyota 4-runner.
All in all, my truck is total overkill for what I do with it. It's the battle wagon, though. I'll take it anywhere and I'm completely comfortable taking it out in the mountains under the worst conditions. Not to mention the fact that it'll climb at 70mph up the steepest grades without even shifting out of O/D. 1700rpm's all day long. When it does come time to tow it'll haul our X-star with a couple grand of lead in it like it's nothing. They're just such cool trucks.
If there is a downer to my truck it's the poor ride. The Chevy's are definitely smoother with the independent suspension. Also the turning radius sucks.
That said.... I love standing on the throttle. For such a big truck it's amazing the way it pulls.
|I have an 08 F250 4x4 powerstroke ext cab, not crew. As far as mileage is concerned, I get exactly 14.5 mpg whether completely dry or towing 10k. The mileage is a bit of a let down, but I was a little late to the game. I also bought when diesel was 5 bucks a gallon here and they practically gave it to me so it made more sense to buy new versus used. If you do buy an 08/09, no matter which brand, be prepared to take it in for all the recalls. I've got 10k on mine and have gone through 3 recalls. They're obviously still working out some kinks. |
Great truck though, I love it, but its my first diesel.
Edit: Frank, what about your warranty? Do you just not care?
(Message edited by Stanfield on February 20, 2009)
(Message edited by Stanfield on February 20, 2009)
|All diesel pickups since January of 2007 have had dpf's on them as mandated by the epa. |
It's an after treatment system and sucks.
Dodge included the NOX catalyst as well to meet 2010 emissions. It was a deal that Cummins did to get some breaks on some of their larger engines in other platforms.
Ford and Chevy do not meet the 2010 emmissions but still have the dpf. They also have egr as well which is the worst part of it all.
My 08 Ram 2500 4x4 Quad Cab get's 15-16 in town and 17-18 on the highway and is all stock.
It does have the egr unplugged which helped a little.
But it's only got 5k miles on it so it is not nearly broken in.
I personally prefer Ford trucks but got such a good deal on the Dodge I couldn't pass it up. Got 40% off msrp at a time when Ford and Chevy would not go that low. So far it's been a great truck. Excellent power, it's quiet and seems to be pretty tough.
With the factory tow/haul mode and the exhaust brake it tows the boat great and will hold speed going down a steep grade without using the brakes.
|for your question about how far off you are on tire size. The formula for distance for one revolution is pi times tire diameter. the metric tire comes in at 33 inches or 103 inches. The 37s travel 115 inches per revolution. You are roughly 12 % slower in speed and milage than what you are calibrated. at 60 on your speedometer you are driving 72. your tack is also lower by the same.|
|Going by the durability. Definitely the cummins}. They also get the best gas mileage. |
Ford has the most power out right now, but worst gas mileage. AS well as they are the most expensive.
Only reason i would go with a chevy is the transmission. Can't beat it.
|I follow you on the tire revolution/speed, but wouldn't the tach still be accurate? The motor doesn't know how big the tires are, so it seems the tach would be accurate?|
|I would not doubt the Ford Torqueshift trans, That trans has been pretty flawless since it came out in 03'. Unfortunatly bad word spreads faster than good and people are still under the impression Ford's have crappy trannies because of te previous e4od/4r100 trans and all it's issues. The 5r110w has been great.|
|^^^^ Dead on right the problems per 1000 related to the Torgueshift vs the Allison are on par.|
|The tach is un-affected by tire size change. |
I love the Ford Tranny... Incidenty, when are you guys servicing your tranny's for the Torqueshift? I've got 35k on mine with some towing, but nothing too heavy. The fluid still looks brand new. I've always changed when the fluid starts changing color, but it just isn't happening.
|All 3 are great trucks... I would seriously look into FORD since they are financially the most stable at this time. |
I have an '05 Dodge 2500 4x4 cummins 5.9
100K miles... zero problems
18 mpg average
21 mpg highway (at 65 mph)
15 mpg towing approx 6k lbs (at 55-60 mph)
I love my truck, but if you can, build the MeatHead dream truck... cummins/allison/F250
|Service interval on the t-shifts is 30k , Chnage the external filter, pull the drain plug and add 9 1/2 qts of mercon sp.|
|Dodge 5.9 L Cummins Turbo Diesel- get an 06 or 07 with lower miles, IMO.|
|vote for the 7.3 liter psd ,my f250 is great. |
im about to put a programmer on it to get better mpgs for sure..
|My friend was not concerned with warranty issues his mileage was his primary need, but nothing was damaged and could be put back to stock|
|08 Chevy Crew bone stock w/ 10K miles. I looked @ and drove them all. Dodge: Love the Cummins and jake brake, don't like the truck and small back seat. Ford: Hate the 6.4 (took a while to wind up) and extra 1000lbs, but love the truck. Chevy was the best all around and has the most power (by the numbers). I'd rather row my own gears, but with the Allison it seems like it is one step ahead of me. 6.6 has enough power that it didn't kick down with the cruise on 70 on any hill in TN last summer. Average 16-17 mpg all around. Best: 13 towing; 20 hwy light. I wouldn't worry about the warranty situation; they'll all honor it if you don't modify. I'd be more concern with the Navistar/Ford fiasco. On a side note, I am in a much better mood when we get to the ramp; so much less stress towing. |
(Message edited by siuski on February 24, 2009)
|I have an 07 5.9L dodge and on my last trip with the boat I was getting 16 on the freeway and with out the boat I get 18-20. My only complaint is not with the drive train but some minor stuff with fit and trim.|
|V10 VW Tourag, not really a truck I guess.....|
|DURAMAX/ALLISON!!! you cant beat it! I have an early 07 classic body style crew cab 4x4 Chevy. For a 3/4 ton it rides great and has a ton of room. Dodge has a small back seat for a crew cab. Like all have said GM seems to be most dependable as well...I know I dont like to be stranded especially with the boat. My dad had a Ford and it ran like a bat out of !@#$ when it wasnt in the shop, which was a couple times a year. My uncle has a king ranch ford with twin turbos and it is a really nice truck I like it a lot. We will see if he has any problems. All in all best all around truck in my opinion is the Chevy with the Duramax/Allison combo. And if I were you I would find a super clean used one pre mid 07 for smog reasons.|
|meathead and CIE |
sorry, I didn't mean to say tackometer. I meant to say the odometer.