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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through March 18, 2009 » dual battery searching making me more confused...h « Previous Next »
By Ryan (liquiddiet) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 1:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok i have been searching dual battery setups for a week now, and there is so much stuff out there and everything wire up is different. I made this diagram to outline what i think everyone is telling me. Let me know if i am close or way off please.

Upload

Also i have heard people talk about stingers and hellroaring and about voltage drop and diode based isolators hurting batteries. My question is i dont want to spend tons of cash, but i do want to do it right. If i use a Borg Warner R3098, is that the same as the higher priced one per Diesel @ MC thread (http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=3557) or does it have a voltage drop? and if so can it degrade my batteries?

 
By WakeMikey (wakemikey) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 1:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
http://bluesea.com/products/7650

This is what I am going with. Sometime soon.

 
By Ken W (kenteck) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 1:51 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
well you have the idea down, it sounds like its coming down to what product to use, they all wire up the same, everyone has their choice on what product is the best, they all work the same, until you get into Separators and Isolators, basically Isolators have a small volt a drop and separators donít, no matter what, you will spend around 100.00 for one of them, question is do you buy something cheap, then it goes out in a year or so, then trying to find out that company is no longer around or do you pay good money for something that will last and that company will be around in 10 15 years. I would go with the sure power battery separator, but that my opinion, this company invented these products and will be around for sometime..
good luck, Nice Drawing......

ask brett he will hook you up!!!!

 
By Ken W (kenteck) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 1:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
here is some info that might help:
http://www.ase-supply.com/Sure_Power_Isolators_kits_s/20.htm

 
By Adam Curtis (acurtis_ttu) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 2:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^ Go with the sure power one and lose the connection going to your ignition.

The sure power will combine/seperate based on batt voltage, not a switch ( in the case above, your ignition)

 
By Ryan (liquiddiet) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 2:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
How do i determine what sure power kit i need there are a bunch of thinks on that site? Who is Brett, how can i contact him?
 
By Rod McInnis (rodmcinnis) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 3:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
That system will work well. It will have one weak area, however.

With that setup the two batteries will be connected whenever the ignition is on. Ignition on does not necessarily mean that battery charging is taking place.

When the engine is idling the alternator output will be very low. Under this condition the alternator will not keep up with the demand and you could end up draining both batteries even though the engine is running. It would take quite a while though, so as long as you don't idle for long periods of time you should be fine.

If you replaced that Borg Warner relay with a "battery combiner" (not the diode type, the voltage sensing relay type) then the batteries will only connect if there is sufficient output from the alternator to charge. This will assure that your starting battery is never drained and has priority on getting charged back up.

The system you show above will be a little cheaper, however, and it will be trivial to make the change later if you decide to.

Rod

 
By Razzman (razzman) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 3:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I've been running the Blue Seas 7650 for a year now without any issues.
 
By Ryan (liquiddiet) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 3:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
anyone have links or part numbers of "combiners" that i could swap into my plans

also i dont understand how the blue sea gets wired into my boat, do you splice into the hot starter wire?

 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 3:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
that bluesea looks good

i'd message brett yates (polarbill) from this board. he sold me a SurePower 1314 for my boat. it works great. i've been using it since last year without issues.

the 1314 is voltage sensing and gives priority to the starting battery. it will parallel the batteries after the start bat reaches 13.2-13.5 volts and then seperates them when the start bat drops to 12.4-12.9 volts. it can also be wired to have the auxilary battery aid in starting (aux battery must have at least 10V).

i've used the Yandina C100 combiner before with good luck as well.

 
By talltigeguy (talltigeguy) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 6:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I may need correction here, but it looks like according to the diagram, the alternator wire goes to the first battery and then to the isolator. Is that right? I thought the alternator wire went to the isolator and then the isolator decides which battery gets charged first. In your diagram, the battery on the right always gets a charge because it is in line before the isolator.
 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 7:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
In the diagram above, his isolator is nothing more then an old Ford style starter solenoid. With the 2 batteries combined through the relay, when the ignition is on, the alt will charge both batteries. Or drain both if the load is greater then the alt output.
 
By Ash (stuntmonkey) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 9:30 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I prefer to use the perko. Keep it on 1 when running and then just switch to 2 when sitting. In the rare case, you drain the bat, you switch back to 1 and start the boat. You can then switch back to 2 and get it charged up.

I do not like solenoid type systems as I have found they are not as reliable. It is also an cheaper solution than an isolator.

I would keep one batt for the starter and do 2 for the stereo if you plan on adding some power. I have found that a single battery with a decent sized system will drain very quickly. So even if you are looking for an hour or two. A couple batts is the way to go. I use the Kinetik batts.

(Message edited by stuntmonkey on February 18, 2009)

 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 11:58 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
This is what I run:
http://www.skingcompany.com/Power_Inverter_Accessories-C150_Two_Bank_Battery_Combiner,_150A-P135.aspx

 
By talltigeguy (talltigeguy) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 4:49 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mikeski,
With the Yandina, do you have a way to shut the batteries off? I can't tell if those are switches on the face of the unit or what they do exactly.

I just feel there has to be a way to turn the batteries off when taking the boat home...it seems something is always left on.

 
By Ryan (liquiddiet) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 5:00 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mikeski, can i run with the Yandina C100 if i dont plan on upgrading my alternator on my 01 SAN? and does it wire into my diagram the same as about without a ignition wire?

(Message edited by liquiddiet on February 19, 2009)

 
By jay (ironj32) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 5:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I do what Ash does, just use a Perko switch. I use my cranking battery as the primary one, and the deep cell is there for back-up.
 
By Ryan (liquiddiet) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 11:26 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok i contacted Brett, and i am going to go with the Sure Power 1314, the flexibility and ease of installation is just to hard to beat. Updated diagram, because its more fun to do diagrams for my boat in visio than network architecture ones for work

Upload



(Message edited by liquiddiet on February 19, 2009)

 
By Bruce Mac (brucemac) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 11:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
looks good to me. couple suggestions.

you could run the optional start assit and gain a quick boost from the auxilary battery if the 1314 senses your cranking battery is low. it won't "combine" them for start asist unless the aux battery has at least 11V so you don't have to really worry about it equalizing the batteries and it won't do it unless the starting battery is less than like 12.2 or so. you can also put a switch and a dummy light to turn the feature on or off and. dummy light just tells you when it's be utilized. you could also put in a manual switch like mikeski suggested just to be sure that nothing's pulling off the batteries in storage like your stereo, ecm, etc.

 
By Mikeski (mikeski) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 7:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I ran the yandina C100 on my boat with 100A alternator for two summers. When I changed my golf cart batteries out to Kenetics I switched the Yandina to the C150. The C100 should work, don't be fooled by it's dimunitive size.

I never disconnect my batteries, my boat systems work well and do not draw on the batteries when things are turned off. After sitting for 3 months my boat fired right up with no jump start. I do have a Perko switch but I really just use it as a terminal block for wire connections. It never gets switched.

Those are terminals on the face of the C150. No switches needed they are fully automatic.

(Message edited by mikeski on February 19, 2009)

 

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