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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through March 18, 2009 » Correct Craft wins JD Powers Award again... « Previous Next »
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 8:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
What happened to Mastercraft this year?? Last year they tied with Correct Craft for first place.

JD Powers

 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 8:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The overall score...

Upload

 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 9:45 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Wow really impressive, JD powers what an honor
 
By rG (canecorso) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:02 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
i think nauti pays JD to be on the top, their is no way they beat MC
 
By daniel (cowwboy) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I wannt to know if jd powers buys the boats off the lot or do they get "special boats" delivered by the manufacturer?
 
By Rich (dohboy) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:16 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
This is an online or phone survey of actual customers. Its not JDs opinion. I was contacted online for the last car I bought by them.
 
By Dave (davomaddo) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:29 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Good stuff.
It is interesting that only 2, MC and Natique, are above average. Everyone else is below average.

To set the average that high, JD Powers must have had a lot more people with MC and Natiques surveyed.

I guess that would make sense when you factor in market share.

Does this info make a difference to anyone??

IE - will anyone change their purchasing decision based on this info??
IE - Was going to buy Malibu, but decided to buy MC or Natique based on the JD Power survey??

 
By tampawake (tampawake) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
No and I don't believe these things are apples to apples. Much like the boat buying guide in wakeboarding magazine. I own an MC. Thats not to say CC is crap by any stretch. Just not sure that the JD power thing is truly objective. Either way good for CC
 
By Tank (socalwakepunk) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I really don't think much of these surveys.

"their is no way they beat MC"

Really? Please explain...

 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
When you buy a new boat JD Powers sends you the form to fill out. I got one when I bought my CC and when my father-in-law bought us the Malibu. It's up to you to mail it back in. They send the same form to every new boat owner so it is "Apples to Apples".

It think it is very funny that everyone says JD Powers is rigged, but when Mastercraft tied CC last year it was a big deal. When they come in second for the umpteenth time it's a scam and can't be fair...

 
By Twitch swagga (themxercr85) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yeah seriously.... If this is based on customer support it may not be but I am a little confused, than MC should be last, copes blew abosuly you know what and MC just didnt give a shiet about all the problems we had.
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 10:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The Rating Factors
Upload

Upload

(Message edited by wakeboardsam on February 16, 2009)

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:00 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
those all look pretty accurate except I'll give MC a better helm/instrument panel.

malibu sure sucked it up.

 
By Michael Hunter (mhunter) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I spent the last 1 1/2 years looking for a new wake boat. I have probably been the biggest pain in the A$$ for the dealers in my area. But when you are talking 50 to 80k I do my homework. All the top boats are well built but when you take time to really look and test its no surprise to me Nautique won again.
They are virtually flawless in design and workmanship. MC is very close in quality but I think they are overpriced and only a 3 year warranty. As for me I had my choice of any brand and I went with Nautique.

 
By meathead (meathead65) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:16 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^^^
Twitch...you are correct in a way. What the results don't show directly is actually implied thru the numbers....overall, quality and reliability, and engine are influenced by both the builder and the dealer.

I may get flamed for this, but after almost 20 years in the business, I truly believe it:

Correct Craft tends to have an overall better dealer network, in terms of quality, than the other builders. This is further supported by regional distributers who can assist local dealers with problem boats and customers. This creates the feeling that the boat itself is of higher quality, because CC's will typically be better prepped and any initial issues will be better resolved by these quality dealers.

Granted, this is a broad based statement, and I know there are exceptions to every rule. But you rarely hear of a large volume CC dealer who routinely pisses off their customer base, as both MC and Malibu have experienced, particularly in the West Coast market. And since the West Coast market represents a pretty sizeable chunk of the total volume for these builders, 1 bad "mega dealer" can skew the survey numbers pretty drastically.

 
By lifetimewarranty (lifetimewarranty) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:28 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
SO, how do they choose the list

IOW - why isn't MB or Sanger, or Chapparelle (sorry, couldn't resist) on the list?

(i am going to shoot myself for putting Chapparelle in the same sentence as mb and sanger now)

 
By meathead (meathead65) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:34 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
They send out surveys to those buyers who bought from companies that have the capability of returning a large enough number of questionares.....If memory serves me, they need a minimum of 400 returns to run the numbers. (based on info that I had from at least 3 years ago)MB, Sanger, etc just don't retail enough units to fit into their model. Chap is not an inboard builder, but I believe you will find them rated in the I/O catagory.
 
By Tim Krutz (timmy) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
It is a bought award for marketing. woohoo.

I never got a JD power survey for my 'bu.

 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ You MF'er how could you? I'm guessing they pay to be included in the surveys.
 
By VLX Envy (cavlxenvy) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:46 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I never received a JD Power survey from the two Malibu's I have purchased.
 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
They need to send em out a year or two after one purchases the boat otherwise it's more of a how was your buying experience type survey.
 
By VLX Envy (cavlxenvy) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
This award shouldn't have anything to do with the boat dealers (i.e. Copes).


Malibu 3 stars at watersports.... no way.

Malibu 2 stars for engine? Indmar is a very good engine and other MFGers use Indmar. Pretty sure Moomba uses Indmar and they got three stars. This whole award seems strange.

 
By Amanda (roxy_chick79) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
It is all about ad spend....Just like Car and Driver
 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
MC, BU, Moomba, and Supra all use Indmar so why is the engine category all over the place? It's because it's all B.S.

Tige and CC use PCM so why are they spread so far.

(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on February 16, 2009)

 
By Mark (mvl) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
as mentioned above, it is based on customer feelings. lots use Indmar, so logically they should all have the same, but becuase of bad experiences with dealers the perceived value/performance is dropped. who really knows, who cares. All in all congrats to CC. Regardless of affiliation (I'm a MC guy) I think it speaks volumes for the overall quality of your product if you are continually winning/ranking high on the list.
 
By Mark Qualkinbush (zigzag_55k) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
This is part of an e-mail I sent to JD Powers.

"Thank you for the quick response but I question the results without data available. Your site states Wakeboard / Waterski

("The 2009 Boat Competitive Information Study is based on responses from 9,790 owners who registered a new boat between June 2007 and May 2008. The study was fielded from September to November 2008". )

This does not tell me how many responses Mastercraft had relative to Correct Craft. Common sense tells you the most disgruntled customers will be the ones to respond in larger numbers vs very happy customers. Consumers want to know the ratios and by only making them available for the marine market segment makes me believe you are hiding something from consumers or you just had not thought of that aspect.

I encourage you to publish these numbers for credibility on JD Powers part.")

Dealers are the key for the builders. The dealers hide a lot of problems by doing their job and going through the boat before the consumer takes delivery.

I do not understand why these ratios and builder numbers are so private but IMO it's just another award because someone said so.

Mark

 
By meathead (meathead65) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
"Dealers are the key for the builders. The dealers hide a lot of problems by doing their job and going through the boat before the consumer takes delivery."

I agree, with the exception of the word "hide".
Good dealers "correct" issues before delivery, and good builders pay them to do so.

 
By E.J. (deuce) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Same argument every year.... Go back and do a search....

"they pay to get the award"

"I didn't get a survey"

"same power plants, different scores"

bla...bla...bla....

JD Power is a self report by owners, nothing more and nothing less. Maybe Correct Craft owners have the thickest ownership glasses. Or Correct Craft makes sure owners that do get a JD Power survey are tracked down and informed that whatever we need to do to make sure you get us a 5 star rating, let us know and we will do it.

I don't know and I don't care....Christ people are petty.... I don't need a phuckin survey from JD Power that says I am #1 to make me feel good about my purchase or the boat I won....nor do I need to knock the survey or the company that wins.....

Anyway, congratulations to Correct Craft for winning the award again.

P.S. For full disclosure, I own a 2003 SAN....

 
By Chris Walker (redsupralaunch) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mark Q - Welcome to this board what you asked JD interesting.
 
By Aaron D (aarond0083) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I've bought two new Correct Crafts and haven't filled out a JD Power survey yet. I think I just might fill it out on my 2009 210 I have on order. I've had nothing but great experiences with my CC boats and my dealer is top notch.

I've had very few issues but when I needed something replaced on warranty it happens so fast it is unbelievable. For example, with my 2007 210. I had the gel coat on my platform crack a little. CC sent me a brand new one no questions asked. I had a slight seam tear on one of my swing up rear seats. CC sent me brand new complete seats for both sides just in case the other one had the same issue.

The customer service with my local dealer for a customer is second to none.

Congrats to CC for another win. They sure deserve it.

 
By BadBoyRipper (bbr) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I find it VERY hard to believe that Supra is that low. When you look at those ratings......there is no way that they could have really scored that low. They are a great boat, that are top notch in every way.

JD Power's is bogus, its all a scam.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I sell wakecraft boats and wished that someday, someone, some how will actually do an independent review of all boats. Epic, MB, Axis,Wakecraft ect.. are not fairly represented on this site, Wakeboarding Magazine,or JD powers. I have been at the NE boatshow and have gone through everyboat there. I rank as follows.
1 Wakecraft
2 Mastercraft
3 Malibu
4 CC
5 axis
6 Seadoo
I ranked according to quality vs, price.

 
By Aaron D (aarond0083) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
C'mon Dan, you are a joke dude.

I know you sell WakeCraft so you are going to be hyped on the product but no way is a WakeCraft better than MC, Malibu, or CC.

You're going to rank a Seadoo over a Supra, MB, Moomba, Tige, Sanger or any inboard boat for that matter as a wake boat.

Nobody is ever going to take you serious with all your loony posts. You are hurting your brand, not helping.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:51 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Have you been on one. True Tige and Moomba should be ahead of seadoo.
 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:53 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The other companies are not at the show.
 
By lifetimewarranty (lifetimewarranty) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan, you are finished here. You've been owned for the 100th time.
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 6:55 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
even as a wakecraft dealer putting it ahead of of Epic is foolish...they have the same market but c'mon


Wakecraft = wakeboard only boat, pretty nice
but
Epic = runs on gasoline and wakecrafts.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Epic wasn't at the NE boat show either. I love epic and have been approached to be a dealer for them in this area.
 
By Michael ImObersteg (kickflip_mj) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:08 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
i think malibu got alittle f'd in this. their dash got 3 stars but has anyone ever looked at the malivue... its sick... personally i think the dash on the MC looks like S#$T. but its cool i love the hell out of my bu...
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
...and seadoo being ahead of most inboards... fat chance.
 
By Shaun Brinkle (highrock) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan, you are making me hate the whole idea of wakecraft
 
By Joe Sergi (99_air_warrior) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
What happen to Centurion ?
 
By Cal (phenom_1819) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
It's incredibly unfortunate for Wakecraft that Dan Dulong has become synonymous with the brand on this site. For Wakecraft's sake, I really wish somebody would ban him from posting... whether it be David Williams, or... wakecraft.

Back to the topic, agree... something about JD Power smells fishy.

 
By Larzon (xsmini) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:34 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
it costs money for a company to be fully tested. if the company doesn't pay, a few surveys are sent out to make it look as if there was some competition. so one sour grape can go a long way. Malibu hasn't payed jd power in two years.
NMMA csi awards are more thourough, there isn't a winner, but a group of them. and money doesnt dictate it.

 
By chuck j (wiz) (wake_eater) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
it's just propaganda.
 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan,

I will give you a fair shot here. Please tell all of us in what areas you believe a Wakecraft is superior to MC, CC or BU. I for one have owned both a CC and MC and I can tell you that they are top notch in many areas. I have not owned a BU but many of my friends have them. I will be honest and say that I have only been in a Wakecraft and have not ridden behind one, so I can not speak to the Wakecraft wake.

You continually boast about the quality and superiority of these boats, so if you could, please tell us specifically in what areas you believe they are better.

 
By craig fowler (craig_f) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 8:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I just think it's funny that moomba is ranked ahead of supra in quality and reliability when they are THE SAME DAMN THING!
 
By AMO (amo) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 8:24 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Cuz Moomba is cheaper, so they get the value vote.

On the engine thing. Indmar makes the engines, not the trannies if I am not mistaken. So the difference in performance could be as simple as a different tranny. Supra uses a walters tranny (not so good)with it's indmars. MC uses a ZF Hurth which is heavy as hell and very durable. Don't know what Bu uses. PCM is the only marine engine manufacturer that I know of that makes it's own tranny. I think that's why Nautie's are so money. It's built to work specifically with that engine. I love my X-star indmar, but I think PCM builds a better mousetrap for the Nautie.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 8:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I am not here to advertise. I was merely stating that there needs to be somebody that will independently review all boats. Sure I am biased towards wakecraft, if I didn't love them I wouldn't have bought one, which is the same for any boat owner. I think all of the major boat companies make a great boat. If I didn't own a wakecraft and was at the NE boatshow I would have bought a Mastercraft, Then Malibu, then an air nautique. That is just my opinion. Everyone on here is welcomed to theirs. I would only ask anyone before they knock something please check them out. Get on one and if possible ride behind one.
 
By MikeS (mikes) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 9:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I did not look at Dan's Wakecraft at the NE show because I ran out of time.The Bu's were nice,the MC's were as well(seemed to be the priciest).I own a 210,so I obviously like the CC quality also.
What I can't understand, Dan,is how you could consider yourself a wake boat "rep" but rank the SeaDoo above the Tige and the Supra. For the $55K they were asking for the SeaDoo,I can only assume you never even looked at the Supra or the Tiges that were on display to arrive at that conclusion. i'd be wiling to bet 90% of New England riders have never even seen a Wakecraft. I've never seen one on the water up here. Most owners have their "boat goggles" on ,that's why those brands you mentioned aren't well represented on this site. They have a very small ownership percentage among members.

If you want to promote your product,maybe you should arrange some on the water demos,etc in your area. Talk is cheap.You gotta be able to put people in and behind that boat and show them what it's all about. I don't know if that is your first Wakecraft or not,but I do know the boat you had at the show is new and has not been run yet. Is there an Authorized Wakecraft dealer/service department in N.E. or do you have to take the boat 6 hours away for warranty work? Those types of things also factor into,as you say 'quality for the price".I would certainly hope that you have more experience with those boats than what appears on the surface if your going to tout them as being a better rig than the big three.

 
By Kevin (deltaboy) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 9:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan I can appreciate the loyalty to the Wakecraft brand and I wish you the best of luck with your new endeavor. However most of what you are saying here on WW is irresponsible in both the tone and intent of you comments. Your intent from your first couple of choice posts and actions solidified your credibility as negative and seemingly deceptive. Coming from a fellow Wakecraft owner I respectfully wish you would make more thoughtful choices when representing the brand I like as well and give a little more thought into your actions on this site as well as reevaluate your goals here. Dan in due time and as more Wakecrafts get out there for others to have an informed opinion the information you solicit here will rise to the top and you will get your answers without feeling the need to be deceptive. So be more patient and thoughtful of other Wakecraft owners as well as Telling and his loyal crew who make his boats with him.
 
By Kevin (deltaboy) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 9:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sorry Dan but the Seadoo part of your post pushed me over the edge :-)
 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 9:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Mike if you had stopped by you would have seen that we were taking e-mail addresses from people so that we could notify them of demo days. We are even going to offer free tow days to any rider. I will send an e-mail stating where I will be on a given day and whoever wants a ride is welcomed to meet me. New England correct craft is the premier PMC service dealer and has agreed to do any work that is needed. I have owned a ford, chevy, ect.. and I always bring them to the same shop. If you live six hours away and need warranty work and want to go to your local repair shop then I and wakecraft will pay the tab for warranty work. Send me your e-mail and I will let you know when they will be.

Kevin sorry for any mistakes I have made. I just wanted to know what people thought and I felt that there needs to be an independent review system.

 
By pete c (saceone) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
hahaha wakeworld...typical fanboy site.
I own a 210 and I would be happy for MC if they had won the award...whats wrong with you guys?

 
By Dom W. Forte (fic) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 3:54 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Why doesnt jd powers do a survey at one year of ownership , that would be a true indication of product quality and dealer servce.
 
By Tom (laptom) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 5:25 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Perhaps it's better to do a survey after 50 years... Then there is a true indication of product quality... Although there maybe not that many manufactures left...

People please, last year when MC was first you didn't hear any MC guys and now it's crap and scam... Every review of a product will be dependend and with a taste. Expeccially with cars and boats. So the whole JD-Powers will be a biased award, but every manufature get as much biased opinions as others.... It's is just an opinion of several owners and formed together to a sheet. Let it be. For me it reflects pretty accurate the truth, but I know that I'm biased and that my taste is personal...

Yes, I own a Nautique (also owned other brands).

 
By Michael Hunter (mhunter) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 6:11 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Larson[xsmini] said NMMA awards are more thorough.
Nautique won that one too.

 
By Whiskey Tango (210san) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 6:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Did anyone read how Mastercraft was started????

MasterCraft was founded when the owners decided to start making their own boats. The owners took a Ski Nautique manufactured by Correct Craft and hung it from a tree and cut the back of the hull off in order to modify the hull to their preferences. The company's first ski boat was built in 1968 in a two-horse barn on a farm in Maryville, Tennessee.


I guess that's why they are number 2 behind Nautique....

 
By pete c (saceone) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 7:01 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^ ARE YOU KIDDIN' ME?

man! for the longest time I thought MC's were handcrafted by the hands of god with the assistance of the Rolling stones, princess Diana and Céline Dion!!!!! now I'm sad.

 
By tampawake (tampawake) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 7:13 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I love it lets bash MC. Usually its Tige. Guys seriously from the top to the bottom there is only a 58 pt difference out of 950 which is not even a one percent difference. What I find funny is the engine. They are all chevy with different marinization. The opinion on engine could be the buyer cheaped out and bought an under powered boat and thinks the engine sucks. So is this biased probably not but does not really mean its a true apples to apples type of thing. I think the JD power thing is a joke in general cars boats etc. Would looking at that ranking really change anyones mind doubt it. If my CC dealer sucked and was useless I would rather have a blinged out loaded up Moomba with a GREAT dealer.
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 7:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post

quote:

By Dom W. Forte (fic) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 3:54 am:

Why doesnt jd powers do a survey at one year of ownership , that would be a true indication of product quality and dealer servce.




Actually they do! I received a survey at about the 6 month mark and another one a year later.


quote:

By Larzon (xsmini) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:34 pm:

it costs money for a company to be fully tested. if the company doesn't pay, a few surveys are sent out to make it look as if there was some competition. so one sour grape can go a long way. Malibu hasn't payed jd power in two years.
NMMA csi awards are more thourough, there isn't a winner, but a group of them. and money doesnt dictate it.




JD Powers DOES NOT TEST BOATS, they survey owners.

From the JD Powers site:

Power Circle Ratings are your guide to finding which vehicles ranked highest in J.D. Power and Associates consumer surveys. All Power Circle Ratings are based on the opinions of a sample of consumers who have used or owned the product or service being rated and are therefore indicative of a typical buying experience.

Since 1968, J.D. Power and Associates has been conducting quality and customer satisfaction research based on survey responses from millions of consumers worldwide. We represent the voice of the customer by translating survey responses from consumers and businesses into studies and reports that companies worldwide use to improve their business. In fact, J.D. Power and Associates has developed and maintains one of the largest, most comprehensive historical customer satisfaction databases in existence, which includes feedback on the shopping, buying, and ownership experiences for a variety of products and services.

No payoffs or any other form of advertising or bribes are done.

JD Powers basically ranks customer satisfaction. CC goes way out of their way to make sure that the customer is satisfied, while the manufacturers obviously have had a problem somewhere along the line. Also, according to Zan Schwenk, CC owners are nerds, so they fill out the survey form when they get them. Mastercraft and other boat owners are too cool to fill out the survey and send it back in.

Also, who do you think tells JD powers that you bought a boat?? It has to be either the dealer or the manufacturer, if you didn't get a survey, I wonder why.

 
By AMO (amo) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 7:52 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
It's all about your price point, first, then the dealer. Good call, tampawake. I get my boat worked on at Midwest MC and those guys are awesome. But, the Nautique dealer here in AZ where I live in the winter has historically done a better job with service than the MC dealer in AZ has. Different factors for everyone. So many variables.
 
By MikeS (mikes) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 9:18 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan, that's cool. I would be interested in taking a ride behind the Wakecraft and checking it out. I'll tell you right now though so you know,I'm not a buyer. Happy w/my 210. Sounds like you're on the right track w/the demos etc.
I will email you if I don't make it back to the show.I may head back down Sat or Sun. The guys at NECC will take care of you. They treat me very well!FWIW, Craig has been in the industry his whole life and probably the first thing he'd tell you as a dealer is to stay out of the internet chat rooms hahaha

 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 9:23 am:    Edit Post Delete Post

quote:

By AMO (amo) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 7:52 am:

It's all about your price point, first, then the dealer. Good call, tampawake. I get my boat worked on at Midwest MC and those guys are awesome. But, the Nautique dealer here in AZ where I live in the winter has historically done a better job with service than the MC dealer in AZ has. Different factors for everyone. So many variables.




The Nautique dealer in AZ is probably one of the best dealers in the country as far as customer service goes.

 
By chris (rio_sanger) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 9:40 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
By Tom (laptom) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 5:25 am:

"Perhaps it's better to do a survey after 50 years... Then there is a true indication of product quality... Although there maybe not that many manufactures left... "

I like the 50 year idea! There would be only two brands on the survey list today... Correct Craft and Sanger.

 
By Mark Qualkinbush (zigzag_55k) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 9:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sam,are you talking about Century Marine? They are a top notch dealer. I would say Silver Spray Sports and Century Marine set standards that all dealers aspire to achieve. Nautique is lucky to have those dealers.
 
By Billy (woreout) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 10:23 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Next year will be the true test. The new owners of CC will have had control for a full year. I think they were still riding on Meloons quality of building boats the first year. I have a feeling with the way they are cutting corners they wont be winners next year.
Kinda like John Gruden winning the Super Bowl his first year after Tony Dungy left.
I'm glad to see the awards actually, it makes Mfgs tighten up a little. There is always room for improvement.

 
By andy (michridr69) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 10:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
hahahahahahaha i wonder what kind of boats the JD guys have lol..... Thats is such bs
 
By bu (mc4life) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 10:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
i think it should go by dealer, my molcal malibu dealer is a joke!!!!!!!!!! Never going to buy form them again... My last CC was a joke also!! I think all boats should rank on dealers!! Just got a Mastercraft and its looking better than the others so far
 
By OnlyInboards.com (wakereviews) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 10:43 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
bu = andy
 
By AMO (amo) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 1:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Billy, where is Nautique cutting corners? Are the '09 boats part of that cost cutting measure from the new ownership? And who the hell is the new ownership?
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 2:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Towers are cheap as hell in 09'
 
By Moe (nauti4life) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 2:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
What has everyone else done? It is good to see them stepping up. We will have this talk again next year when it is 8 in a row. GO NAUTIQUE!!!!!
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 3:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post

quote:

By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 2:09 pm:

Towers are cheap as hell in 09'




Please explain... As far as I know and from what I have seen the towers are made from the same exact material as before. They added the Rosewell tower and it's anything but cheap.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 3:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
They started getting them from China... they get to the states and must be fixed or they would be a huge hazard.... props for nautique to step up and pay to have them fixed once they are here, but -2 because it costs more in the long run and they outsourced jobs.
*I'm only talking about the swervy new style ones.... the new anything but cheap one** since you said it is Rosewell maybe it is their fault, not nautique and nautique is just honoring the contract but either way.... no good.

Do you remember the thread where someone saw one at a boat show and was shocked because the new "fixer" welds were covered with like spray paint or something....

thats what I want on my 75k boat, a re-welded, spray paint tower.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 3:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
and all this is coming from a devout CC fan.


the new stuff they have is great looking, but no where near as functional as the old 210's.

they deserve the award too, but unless they step up they will NOT win next year

 
By AMO (amo) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 3:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I remember that thread and the pics!

I know they don't look good, BUT, when done correctly the weld should be the strongest part in the assembly.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 4:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
My point is they had to do the welds twice, because the first time was so worthless.

Pay a welder for 2 hrs of work or 4, which costs less?
How much bead can you lay before it looks like a 10 year old hucked mud at the tower?
Pay to paint the tower once or another time, spray paint or not?

-- and if you've seen that other thread how can you stand up for that tower, you clearly had knowledge it was cheap... but then went on to say, and I quote, "it's anything but cheap."

 
By Aaron D (aarond0083) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 8:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nick, I don't think all Roswell towers are like the one that was in the thread.

My local dealer has the Roswell on all their 2009s and I didn't see a single one that looked bad. The finish and welds were as good as any tower I've seen on any Nautique. I hate the look of the new tower so I had to order my 09 to get the Titan.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 10:34 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
... and as for as the strong part of the tower I doubt the weld it is. I've had two towers crack, right on the welds, stock welds non-the-less.

6061 Aluminum Tensile strength is around 45,000lbs
Aluminum Electrode for welding tensile strength is about ~34,000lbs

My guess is the weld is breaking first either way... and more-so if it has been done over and over burning the metal thin around it

 
By Billy (woreout) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 5:33 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The S shaped tower is the one from China. The moment the tower hits the U.S. it goes directly to Ramlin to be looked over and fixed.
 
By Jeff (innov8) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 11:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
"The moment the tower hits the U.S. it goes directly to Ramlin to be looked over and fixed."

See that's how Nautique operates, if there is a problem then they fix it before it goes out to the dealers, unlike some companies that design a bad tower, let it go to dealers and then send out Brackets/Braces TO CUSTOMERS to fix a problem that never should have made it out to the dealerships in the first place, not to mention they look like crap.

 
By Mark Qualkinbush (zigzag_55k) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 11:40 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have to give JD Powers props, they did respond back to my request. The difference in number of votes between MC & CC was two votes. Congrats to Nautique on the award. The big winner appears to be PCM, keep in mind Tige's did not have PCM motors through this testing period.


This is part of an e-mail I sent to JD Powers.

"Thank you for the quick response but I question the results without data available. Your site states Wakeboard / Waterski

("The 2009 Boat Competitive Information Study is based on responses from 9,790 owners who registered a new boat between June 2007 and May 2008. The study was fielded from September to November 2008". )

This does not tell me how many responses Mastercraft had relative to Correct Craft. Common sense tells you the most disgruntled customers will be the ones to respond in larger numbers vs very happy customers. Consumers want to know the ratios and by only making them available for the marine market segment makes me believe you are hiding something from consumers or you just had not thought of that aspect.

I encourage you to publish these numbers for credibility on JD Powers part.")

Dealers are the key for the builders. The dealers hide a lot of problems by doing their job and going through the boat before the consumer takes delivery.

I do not understand why these ratios and builder numbers are so private but IMO it's just another award because someone said so.

Mark

 
By Aaron D (aarond0083) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 12:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
PCM definitely makes the best motor. I don't think anyone could argue that. They are so smooth and reliable.

Not to say the others don't make a great motor but PCM is just a notch ahead of the rest.

FWIW, My local mechanic is a one man shop and isn't biased towards any brand because he works on them all. I don't even think he owns a boat any more. He has worked on inboards for nearly 30 years and he sees the fewest issues with PCM engines.

 
By lowend (lowend) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 2:16 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 7:00 pm:

Epic wasn't at the NE boat show either. I love epic and have been approached to be a dealer for them in this area.


I sure hope Epic never approaches you again to be a dealer for them.
You will do the brand more harm than good just like you have for wakecraft. I dont even put a capital W at the start of wakecraft anymore because of you. hahaha

 
By lifetimewarranty (lifetimewarranty) on Wednesday, February 18, 2009 - 2:56 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I second that lowend.


"I dont even put a capital W at the start of wakecraft anymore because of you. hahaha"

LMAO.

Dan's list:
1 Wakecraft
2 Mastercraft
3 Malibu
4 CC
5 axis
6 Seadoo

Nuff said - he didn't even put Epic on his list.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 6:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I love you guys. I would have thought anyone with an IQ over 80 would have got the joke. The point was to prove how stupid these lists are. JD powers, wakeboarding magazine, and wakeworld all review and survey boats that pay them. It costs $30,000 for JD to include you and if you win, you have to pay them another $100,000 to use them in your advertisements. I will tell you what send me fifty dollars and I will put whatever boat you want first. What I think should happen is that "we" meaning boat owners, riders, dealers, and manufacturers should all donate money to a test club. This club should be made up of two owners of each brand that wishes to be reviewed. Then they meet up with a dealer and or rep at a lake and go through a day of boating. The key is that if the malibu owners participate they review all boats except malibu, this goes for everyone. If someone on here knows how to go about starting a trust that can oversee this, I would be happy to donate.
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 5:40 am:    Edit Post Delete Post

quote:

By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 6:23 pm:

I love you guys. I would have thought anyone with an IQ over 80 would have got the joke. The point was to prove how stupid these lists are. JD powers, wakeboarding magazine, and wakeworld all review and survey boats that pay them. It costs $30,000 for JD to include you and if you win, you have to pay them another $100,000 to use them in your advertisements. I will tell you what send me fifty dollars and I will put whatever boat you want first. What I think should happen is that "we" meaning boat owners, riders, dealers, and manufacturers should all donate money to a test club. This club should be made up of two owners of each brand that wishes to be reviewed. Then they meet up with a dealer and or rep at a lake and go through a day of boating. The key is that if the malibu owners participate they review all boats except malibu, this goes for everyone. If someone on here knows how to go about starting a trust that can oversee this, I would be happy to donate.




I love you too Dan. JD Powers doesn't review or survey boats, they survey boat owners... big difference! Your dollar figures are way, way off too. I guess I should have one of those IQ tests that you talk so highly of.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 7:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I got my numbers directly from a CC dealer who is a direct descendant of CC's original owner. I would just think everyone would be happy with a fair and unbiased review system. I am not saying JD powers is biased. I do feel that their requirements to be included are unfair and too costly for smaller companies.
 
By OnlyInboards.com (wakereviews) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 7:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have put a lot of thought into creating a website that does reviews on boats based on measurable items only. Time to plane with multiple weights, wake pics at all line length with stock and added ballast, etc etc etc

But, how would something like this make money? If you keep it "un-biased" then you can't charge the manufacturers to have their boat included and god forbid you charge for advertising...

so you'd have to charge the consumer to view it. Would you pay 99 bucks or so to access information like this? Maybe but would 1000 other people? Yeah, it'd be nice but it's just not

 
By Billy (woreout) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 7:22 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
He said ^^^...

"a direct descendant of CC's original owner."

BAHHHHHHAAAAAAAHHHHAAAAA thats funny ^^^ Its like we are talking about scripture or something.
The owners, first cousins, grandmas yardman.

sorry just struck me funny

(Message edited by woreout on February 20, 2009)

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 7:29 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I think you are on the right track. I am not sure a 1000 people will pay 99 bucks, but I think 5000 would pay ten. To get started you would need donations. Manufactures can donate, but they must understand that the review may not be favorable. I agree that it should be based on measurable requirements, but I think there should be a bonus for overall enjoyment. Like I said I would be the first to donate.
 
By OnlyInboards.com (wakereviews) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 7:43 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
disagree completely, what manufacturer is going to donate money in these times to some guy who wants to start a website (it's not like they are going to get a piece of ownership) and also who may HURT their marketing? And i think 5000 people is a HUGE stretch.. I'd be shocked if you could get 500 people to pay 10 bucks honestly.
 
By andy (michridr69) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 7:58 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
iI think onlyInBoards is dumb as a rock, i agree 100%}
 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 8:03 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Then let them advertise on the site. The key is that the reviews are unbiased. If you called me and said ""we are reviewing wakeboard boats and would like to use one of our boats for the day". I would say sure. Grant it your advertisers will probably revolve with the rankings.
 
By corey king (snowboardcorey) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 8:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Gotta agree with onlyinboards here, there is just no way to make it financially viable.

Aside from that what about personal preference. I know what I like and I wakeboard so I can ride how I like, behind what I like and hang with people I like, I don't need a magazine or website to tell me what I like.

 
By OnlyInboards.com (wakereviews) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 8:12 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
haha, love it. let's start the donations then. PM me for my paypal address and I'll start taking donations. Once I hit the 20k budget it would take to pay for this I'll get it going. I'm waiting for YOUR donation first Andy.
 
By MikeS (mikes) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 9:04 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
IMHO ,there is no real way to conduct a review that isn't biased in some way or another.Either by advertising,paying to play,ownership,previous experiences,etc. Everyones view would be their own personal opinion,and you know what they say about those.......

The only way is for the potential buyer to demo boats and form his own opinion on what is best for him. Just like boards,bindings,handles,lines.etc.

This reminds me of the "good deal on a boat" thread. Whatever price you're happy with is a good deal,just like any boat you're happy with is a great boat.

 
By tj (tj_in_kc) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 9:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
andy(michridr69), your opinion is your own and you are free to it of course….

with that said. calling out a guy like onlyinboards isn't helping your perceived IQ or giving you any credibility around here.

onlyinboards is a consistent poster on this board, and nearly always has something good and intelligent to add to the conversation.

btw - i don't know what you do for a living, but i doubt you have the kind of knowledge he does about what works and doesn't work in the web space.

as someone that has experience running HUGE commercial websites i agree that a wakeboat reviews website alone is not an enticing endeavor financially. There are so many more opportunities out there.

 
By MikeS (mikes) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 9:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Oh, and Dan, the word you were looking for is Great Grandson. His mother was a Meloon. Don't believe everything he tells you.....he likes to have fun w/ people
 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 10:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
What the heck is up with IQ and this forum, everyone knows if you are riding hard enough you lose IQ points every time you crash! And I have crashed a ton!
 
By Andy G. (ottog1979) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 11:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'm a bit miffed here. You guys actually put that much creed into boat reviews when actually buying one? As if, some objective performance data written in a magazine will sway your decision. I'll bet less than 5% of buyers analyze like this. Me, I'll be demo testing the available ones in my price and geographic range and make up my own mind.

Don't get me wrong - I love reading about boats, seeing new ones & innovations down at the boat show, my dealer, at the ramp, etc. Not only is it interesting, it helps me form general opinions about brands, engines, handling, innovations, etc. But, to think that I would line up my top 3 potential boat buys based on data in a magazine, and then be swayed to one based on that... I don't think so.

You guys are putting way too much credibility into the "objectivity" of reviews. It's just publicity & marketing. And in general you have to work it hard or pay to play for that. That's how sales works.

My 2 cents.

 
By andy (michridr69) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 11:41 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
good one. i do not know anything about web pages or internet, seriously i dont care, y would i want to know that stuff?? wont make near as much money, my opinion of course tj
 
By Tyler T (val_venus) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 12:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Normally I just skim through and read these threads for pure entertainment or some helpful tips… but after reading some of this thread I decided to register and post for once. I don’t understand why everyone is so bent out of shape about CC winning this award. My family owns a CC, but we did not buy the boat because it has won JD Power award. We bought the boat because we liked the style and it fit our needs. It ultimately was the right choice for us. I could care less if some one else thinks the dash is better in a Malibu, or a MC, more power to them. Maybe that’s why they decided to go with that particular brand. It doesn’t matter which brand you go with… Once you eclipse the 50k mark for an inboard you are going to get a quality boat (even the Wakecraft seems to be a nice boat). Not my first choice, but I could see why someone could think it’s great. If you like the wake, and you like the boat then JUST BUY IT, and ENJOY IT. I know we didn’t buy our CC worrying about what others might think, or if the resale is going to be good. We got it because we loved it after the first test drive. A boat doesn’t need an award to be the best, if you like it, then it is the best for you.
 
By Jeff (innov8) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 1:19 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
That is a great first post Tyler, I couldn't agree more, enjoy your CC.
 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 6:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yep, I give up on an unbiased rating system. I only ask that if you are thinking of buying a boat, please try every one. Epic, Tige, Moomba, ect. Please do not be fooled that the top 2 or 3 or 4 are your only options. I agree that buying a boat is a unique experience. My booth at the show is next to a yacht, a sea doo, and a triuph. None of those people would ever buy a crossover boat. I will give anyone who wants a ride, and I am sure any dealer would do the same.

Mike thanks for the info. If you come to the the show, let me know, so I can get you in for free.

 
By MikeS (mikes) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 6:30 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^^Lol! ^^^^ Did that last statement come from the man himself? I got a vendor pass from Craig last weekend(and a ride to the show ,and free parking...I'm such a freeloader....Hahaha),but it doesn't look like I'm going to make it back down before the show ends. Tell Craig to let me know when your boat hits his shop and I'll swing by there and check it out.I'm only 15 min. from there. I'd be interested in taking a pull behind your Wakecraft sometime,but my opinion won't mean much cause I suck at wakeboarding.

BTW, watch out for Fred,he's quite a weapon.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 6:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
LOL did you go to york high? If you suck at wakeboarding then why buy that boat. Just curious.
 
By Rich (dohboy) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 6:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
It looks like everyone agrees. Their boat is the best brand! I would take a pull on any brand.
 
By OnlyInboards.com (wakereviews) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 7:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nooo, Dan you were doing so good.
 
By MikeS (mikes) on Friday, February 20, 2009 - 7:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you suck at wakeboarding then why buy that boat


The local dealer was all out of Sea-Doos.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 6:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
LOL
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 7:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan D. = total joke and my guess would go to a frat party if he was invited, even at his current age.

Andy from Mich - wow buddy, not only may you be semi-retarded but you somehow also manage to make me not like you. Usually is someone is really stupid I just feel bad for them and compassionate but not you.


Sea-Doo blows for wakeboarding... unless someone can show pictures of a GOOD sea-doo wake.

When it comes to wakeboard boats being good there is no best.... it is just a platform of all great boats, then everything below.

-- MC, CC, Bu, Moomba, Supra, Tige, Sanger, Supreme, EPIC, Wakecraft (happy), Centurion, Etc etc etc.... Most all inboard boats created today specifically to wakeboard are all very good.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 7:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
... and Onlyinboards, you're the man... you've created one of the best/ easiest sites to find, sell, or just look for boats out there.
Thank you.

 
By andy (michridr69) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 7:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nick are u some kind a gay?
 
By Dave (deltadave) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 8:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan you really don't want there to be unbiased reviews, what you really want is to have your shot at a customer and putting them in a Wakecraft. You're upset with the "system" that the big three have the lion's share of the market and there's not much you can do about it except complain about how it's so unfair. So, let me get this right: you want people to pay you or someone to "unbiasedly" test boats? That just makes no sense at all. What's your hope, that people will find out that WC is a truly wonderful, kick ass boat? People buy for many, many other reasons besides a "review" and a test drive: a boat's image; dealer's reputation; what their friends think; resale value; warranty; perceived quality; after-the-sale support; proven reliability and so on. These are reasons you're not likely to make many WC sales and why WC as a company will not build up their market for many years. It's not because there are no "unbiased" reviews. BTW, good to know the local Correct Craft Dealer will warranty those "PMC" engines for you if you sell a WC. And who does the warranty on the boat itself? Oh. You farm it out to a local service shop and WC pays. Nice. That's the kind of support I want when I spend $60k on a towboat.
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 8:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
yes, but not nearly gay enough to rock a monster hyperlite sticker on my truck.
 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 8:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Now thats funny!
 
By andy (michridr69) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 8:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
y not?
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 9:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
there isn't room next to my Sea-Doo one
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 9:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
okay... I cannot believe I'm getting into this, wow.

Everyone....argue away!

 
By andy (michridr69) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 9:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha lol iight ill giv it to ya
 
By Ron Mexico (ron_mexico) on Saturday, February 21, 2009 - 11:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
NE boat show review - I was in town for the wife's work, might as well check it out while she was busy.
Mastercraft - best booth. makes sense cause they are a mastercraft only dealership. (X2 was nice) looked good.
Malibu- stack em deep! your share a booth with cobalt so it should work out fine. i never even had a chance to see one in its entirety cuase they were side by side. but none the less boats looked good.
Nautique - HUGE LETDOWN!!!!! 2 boats? gray carpet that looked like concrete? selling the maloon family? this is your market right? i thought so, but I guess not.
Wakecraft - wakecraft was there? dang I missed it. but if i had seen it, i would have said to self "really, that tower? hmmm, well you are good at other things." also why only one model?
Tige - nice lime green boat (i think it was a 21). head turner and star of the show! boats looked good but floor layout was a little dead.

i don't remember the others, but i only had and hour at the show. i would take a yacht though.

i know this was a JD discussion but there was plenty of NE dialogue so i felt the need to interject!

 
By pete c (saceone) on Sunday, February 22, 2009 - 1:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
here in cold cold cold Canada, we slap shot to death trash talkers.
WHATWHAT!

 
By Dave (deltadave) on Sunday, February 22, 2009 - 5:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Where the hell was Wakecraft and Diamond Dan?
 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Sunday, February 22, 2009 - 8:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I was there. Pictures are comming.
 
By J. (jaysus) on Sunday, February 22, 2009 - 9:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
MC @ NE Boat Show - (thanks for the compliment Ron) Show was a blast. Thanks everyone.



Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload

 
By OnlyInboards.com (wakereviews) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 5:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
thanks for the props guys. Andy's just mad b/c I called him out for using 2 screen names to post.

The MC booth looks great! Hope the show went well for you....

Funny talk about a thread going WAY off course!!!

 
By andy (michridr69) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 9:44 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
im pretty sure i dont have 2 names sry bro
 
By JDpowerinsider (jdpowerinsider) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 11:55 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sorry for being late to the game on the JDPA discussion but had to chime in. I work on the boat study for JDPA and like to see how boat owners react to our study results (I also own a ski boat so feel I am qualified to be on this page). I am amazed that for as long as JDPA has been around, there is still so much misinformation about how we conduct our studies. We are certainly not like any magazine review in that the ratings are not our opinions, they are actual owners opinions. I would like to thank wakeboardsam for trying to clear up a lot of the misinformation. Let me try to address a few of the biggest misconceptions:
1) Manufacturers don't pay to be in the study. If you make roughly 500 or more boats in the segment we are surveying, you are in. OEMs like Sanger and others are not in only due to small sales volumes. Not all OEMs buy our study results but they are still included in study.

2) Owner names are purchased from an independent company that compiles owner names from state registrations (OEMS can not pick and chose which owners we survey).

3) Ownership length at time of survey is anywhere from 3 months to 1 year depending on when you purchased your boat.

4) Of the 7 segments we survey, Ski/Wake has by far the best boats top to bottom. If you look on our website, there is an overall industry rating for each boat. A boat like Malibu may be a 3 star relative to MC and CC but relative to all other boats, it is a 4.5 star. My point is that all boats in the ski segment are extremely well made relative to your typical boat.
5. Although sales and service satisfaction is not directly included in the index score we post, our data clearly shows that your sales and service experience have a tremendous influence on your overall satisfaction with the boat. Therefore, you can't just look at a boat in isolation...our ratings are strongly influenced by the customer's total ownership experience.
6)How does JDPA make money - we fund the total cost of the study including purchasing the names, sending out 50k surveys, etc. We then create reports for each segment and we sell the reports and a database that includes all the OEM's results and all their competitors results. The key for OEMs is the competitive data. Many companies do their own research or participate in the NMMA but those types of studies don't provide detail ratings on competitors. Our study does provide that. It is a real simple value proposition to OEMs - use the data to understand the competitive strengths and weaknesses of your boats. If you have a weakness such as seats, use the data to find out who scores well on seats and look at what they doing to rate high and use that insight to build better seats (could be as easy as using the same supplier). The end result is you get a better boat that is available to you to purchase. Since we have been measuring the industry since 2001, the industry has made great strides in terms of product quality, sales and service given no brand wants to see their poor scores posted in our press releases or on our site (JDpower.com). The best way to solve this issue is to build better boats and improve the dealership experience.

Be happy to answer any general questions but can't really comment on specific brands.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 1:58 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
are you actually a JD power person or just someone from this thread who started a new account?

Also, did you rank Sea-doo?

 
By JDpowerinsider (jdpowerinsider) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 2:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nick,

Was not aware people are that devious on this board....Yes, I work for JD power and I work on the marine study.

This is the first year Sea Doo and Yamaha jet boats were included in the study. Sea Doo is in the small runabout rankings and Yamaha is in the large Runabout rankings. They were kept out for years but we determined that the current jetboats are simply runabouts with alternative propulsion systems so we included them.

 
By Cal (phenom_1819) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 2:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
LOL, yes... there are a few that devious on here. But I didn't doubt your identity... your post was more professionally written than those in question are capable of...

(Message edited by phenom_1819 on February 23, 2009)

 
By Aaron D (aarond0083) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 7:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
"5. Although sales and service satisfaction is not directly included in the index score we post, our data clearly shows that your sales and service experience have a tremendous influence on your overall satisfaction with the boat. Therefore, you can't just look at a boat in isolation...our ratings are strongly influenced by the customer's total ownership experience."

This is why Correct Craft has had such an impressive run winning this award. Not only do they build one of the best boats but their dealer network is top notch. I haven't seen or heard of too many people upset with their dealer post buying a new Nautique.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 10:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
JD what to you charge companies to see the reports and if they win what do you charge them to use the award for their advertising campaigns?
 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 11:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Delta dave. I have owned a ford, chevy, mitsubishi, hyundai, jeep, pontiac,toyota and a volvo. I never once took them to a dealer for repairs. I took them to my local mechanic that I trusted. I have only been to a dealer if there was a recall. What if you wanted to buy a Sea Ray, but the closest dealer was four hours away and the mandated that you had to go to them. I assume you live in the delta region so you can boat year round. We have a very short season in NE. I have heard horror stories of people having a small problem and having to tow their boat four hours away, only to let it sit at the dealer for over a month, then having to tow it back. Their season is over, when if the manufacturer would have agreed to have their local marina fix the job that day, those people would have had a worth while season. I had a problem with my old IO's prop. My local marina did not only fix it that day, they came to my lakehouse on a barge and did it. I then sent the prop back to the manufacturer and they reimbursed me. This happened on a Saturday of a holiday weekend. I had a house full of guests. What if i had to tow my boat to the dealer to have it fixed? Mine and all my guests' weekend would have been lost. I ask what would you rather do?
 
By JDpowerinsider (jdpowerinsider) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 6:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan,

That is a slightly sensitive question and it certainly varies by client. A basic report which includes over 100 pages of charts and text and the database of information for only 1 segment can run between 20-30k. That is actually a bargain when you consider how much it would cost a manufacturer to go out on their own and gather results from a 8-page questionnaire for their brand and all the main competitors in the segment. For ad cost, that is not my area but let's just say some of the numbers that have been mentioned on this board are in the ballpark (but on the high side). Only award winners can have an ad claim, you can't be second and claim you are best in quality or something else. Also, ad claims are only good until the next study publishes, then you have to pull all your ads, display boards, etc. that mention the award/JD power.

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 8:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey Sam,how is that IQ thing going for you.
 
By Moe (nauti4life) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 8:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
JD-
Just wondering how you get your average standard?

 
By Dave (deltadave) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 9:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan, you never had a warranty issue on your new vehicles? No recalls? Maybe you got your boat fixed in a day on that one issue. That is not the norm at all. If I were your potential customer, I don't think I would take that risk. Major issues can come up on new boats. I'm sure you've read on WW about how many guys have had transmissions go out in the first ten hours. The local "repair" shop or Correct Craft dealer has no incentive to warranty your customer's boat, especially in the middle of the summer in NE. Your customer could easily go without their boat for four weeks in your short season with any significant warranty issue. They could go without their boat for several weeks for a 20 hour service because the shop has a booked schedule and no time or incentive to get your customer's boat out ahead of the others.

What if the tranny goes out or the engine stops because of a factory defect or assembly problem? How long do you really think it takes for another shop to get authorization, get the part, put it in the schedule, get the work done and get it back to you? And what if the local shop is worried about getting paid and won't release it until the $3,400 bill is paid by the factory and the factory takes four weeks to pay them? Are you going to pay the bill so they get their boat back and take the chance that the factory is going to "redline" the claim and not pay all the charges? That happens.

What if the shop damages the upholstery or scratch the gelcoat? You could end up eating it out of your pocket if they deny they did the damage or refuse to fix it. That does happen. What if the customer's tower speakers are all stolen and the shop had no insurance and will not pay it? Are you going to pay $1,500 out of your pocket to keep your customer happy? What if the customer swears they had $900 in boards or three amps in the boat and they're missing? That happens too. Are you going to eat it?

I don't think you can plan that the local dealer or shop will get your warranty work (or even basic service) done quickly, correctly and without occasional incidence. So why would a customer spend 60k on a boat with you when you farm it out and they have no control over when it is fixed, over you and no control of an outside shop? Dan, I'm sure you're a good guy with the best intentions. What would I rather do? I would go with a Maxum or Moomba or Correct Craft or a brand that has a good, reputable local dealer where I know could warranty my boat quickly and correctly if there is a problem.

 
By Sam Ingram (wakeboardsam) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 9:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post

quote:

By Cal (phenom_1819) on Monday, February 23, 2009 - 2:37 pm:

LOL, yes... there are a few that devious on here. But I didn't doubt your identity... your post was more professionally written than those in question are capable of...

(Message edited by phenom_1819 on February 23, 2009)



Ha, ha... That would be me. I've had more names on this forum than anyone, probably...

Let's see:
- Bocephus (That was my favorite)
- Red Sovine
- Robert Earle Keene
- Wakeboardsam

I think it's pretty funny that most of my threads go on forever and ever.... Look at the Arizona find a third threads....

I'm sure that I missed at least another name or two...


quote:

By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 8:09 am:

Hey Sam,how is that IQ thing going for you.



I'm sure I lost a few points this weekend trying to get the 360 nailed down... I land it every now and again..

 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Delta Dave I agree with you. In a perfect world I would go to my dealer for everything, but I have learned the hardway that once you buy you are just a guy. Some of these dealers carry five six and seven different lines and some even sub-out their service work, even though they are in the same building. If you are the dealer and you had the choice of fixing a 65000 dollar boat or the 600000 dollar boat, who goes first? I think we as a whole have gotten greedy. We want it all. All I can say that I am not in this for the money, it would be nice, but I do not want to take advantage of anyone. I had a young man willing to sign a contract for one of my boats, but then he told me he was going to use it on long Island sound. I pretty much talked him out of it. If a competitive skier said he wanted one of my boats I would tell him it is not for him. Now if a dad who still likes to ski and the kids are into tubing and wakeboarding then thats my market. All I can say is that I and Wakecraft would do whatever it takes to get our owners back on the water as soon as possible. I would give them my demo for the weekend if they needed it. People can be wowed by big buildings and lots of workers, but it is only the desire of the dealer and the manufacturer that will truly get you back on the water. I guess I would say If you own a Wakecraft you are not just a number. but a person. David Telling loves boats and wants families to enjoy what boating has to offer. I have that same compassion. Are you taking a risk? Sure. All I can say is if I didn't believe in the product or our ability to service it I wouldn't sell it.
p.s. I can not get my pics to upload. Any advice?

 
By JDpowerinsider (jdpowerinsider) on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 6:21 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Moe,

The segment average is simply a weighted average of all the brand's scores in that segment(and in other segments, it includes some brands you may not see given we don't publicly show any brand under 100 returns, but these brands count toward the segment average). The weights applied are the sales volumes for each brand. Just an FYI, weighting does affect a brand's score, it only affects the segment average.

 
By Erik (kinger) on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 6:58 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan,

That statement is totally false with regards to my dealership they are great and take care of me. I would be interested in how you arrive at such a generalized statement.

 
By Clint (ttuclint) on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 9:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I think there is a conspiracy keeping Gekko boats from winning this award.
 
By Dan DuLong (wakeitnofakeit) on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 7:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Clint it was because their check didn't clear
 

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