|Anyone have any new updates on the industry. Who is joining forces? Who is shuttn'er down? Who is scaled back? Who is ramp'in it up?|
|I am told that Capital Water Sports, the Tige/Sanger/Misc. dealer in Rancho Cordova filed chapter 11 yesterday.|
|i got a chance to see specs on boat sales over the past few years today. its pretty scary to see how few boats are being sold. MC, CC and BU had less than less than 30 boats sold in '08 if i remember correctly.|
|less than 30 boats between MC, CC, and BU - you are joking right? Or, are you serious? |
|Thats gotta be a typing error. 30 boats between 3 manufacturers in a whole year in all the USA? |
I heard our local 'bu dealer had an OK boat show. But they sold way more Cobalts than anything else. Just not a lot of Malibu purchases here lately I guess.
(Message edited by bill_airjunky on February 13, 2009)
|NO F'ING WAY EVEN ONE OF THEM HAD LESS THAN 30 NEW BOATS SOLD LAST YEAR!!! Gotta be a joke.|
|i meant each and should have been more thorough in my statement. it was around 30 each in california. nationally in the 100's|
|I bet more than 30 were bought by people on this forum (evidently I bought one of the 30). |
edit ^^ didn't see the last post
(Message edited by 1boarder_kevin on February 13, 2009)
|Guesstimating.. with the fall of Copes and the 08 market, Malibu went from 650 boats in 06 into the state of CA to 100 in 08 and I bet fewer in 09. Those are guesses but the brunt of the bad economy, is hitting boat and RV dealers the hardest. |
Your Joe Wakeboarder has no idea how bad it is out there. I think we will see many many more dealers close if not manufacturers. at least on the west coast we will.
Anyone have more solid numbers?
|meathead, where did you hear that info on CWS??? thanks.... |
|Okay, I got off the phone with the owner of CWS and they have not filed chapter 11 nor do they plan to at this time.|
|Just got off the phone with the person who told me...they mistook California Water Sports for Capital Water Sports. |
I was wrong to post information without verifying it myself...can a mod please modify or delete my post above?
|Good job Meathead! I thouggt you was a proffessional!! Well, at least it's been clarified that Capital Water Sports is ok.|
|Its sad to read all this stuff. When the economy recovers theres gonna be some huge holes in alot of industries. The time to fully recover for all the big car, rv and boat mfgs is just being prolonged as dealers go out of business across the country.|
|Thanks meathead. The owner wasn't happy when I asked but he was honest with me. I guess because I have bought two boats from him |
|Callen, I know for a fact that SJ Ultimate sold a bit over 30 Bu's for 08'...so whatever you read was very incorrect. |
Granted, most were 07' closeouts, but still....
|I don't think dealer sales count, and certainly not holdover or foreclosures obtains from bankrupt dealers. It's my impression that the industry figures are calculated by how many a manufacturer sells to dealers, current models in the same current model year only. I could be wrong but if not then there are too many ways to screw with the figures. |
(Message edited by Razzman on February 13, 2009)
|I heard Crown Line was done last week. Can anyone confirm?|
|I heard that was a rumor that Chapparel started - any confirmations?|
|seabass-im not talking dealer sales, i mean manufacture sales. like i said before. my statement wasnt 100% accurate. i am going from memory alone from what i saw on the spreadsheets but i am not that far off.|
|Crownline is up for sale |
|"my statement wasnt 100% accurate" |
30 boats didn't sound right
(Message edited by joe_crawley on February 15, 2009)
|30 boats each in California and 100's nationally??? |
Where does this stuff come from?
I guarantee MC did more than in the 100's nationally.
|yeah, i think MC does around 3,000 boats a year. i doubt even in a down economy the number has dropped in the hundreds...|
|I bet that number will be in the high hundreds for 2009.|
|Looks like we could have a flip/flop on #1 but too soon to tell. They are all good companies and we want them around. Competition is good |
3rd Q YTD registered US
|From the link above: |
|It looks like 2008 was a tough year and 2009 will be even more difficult. For some reason, MC appears to be hit the least.|
|The main thing is most builders of boats and RVs closed most of the 4th qtr. I will bet that most only produced 1/3 of the 3rd qtr in the 4th qtr.|
|Since MC pre builds their boats, they must of released a bunch of boats to stack the numbers up...|
|The numbers from Trade Only posted above are based on RETAIL SOLD BOATS, to consumers, in 47 States. Those states represent 99 percent of all retail registrations nationwide.|
|The ski boat sales numbers is interesting info. |
Thanks for posting that.
|By Mark (mvl) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 3:18 pm:
|I love it when rumors are spread. I heard that the economy was slow! |
Not that things are great...because they're not...but for crying out loud folks, lets start to look up vs. down. What's the national unemployment figure, 7-8 or higher? That means 92-93 people out of 100 are still WORKING! There are folks with money and yes there are some out of jobs, but when all we do is focus on the bad, it compounds on the problem. There are still folks with lots of money and they're just sitting on it.
Not is a GREAT time to buy anything if you have the means...so get out and do it so we all can keep our jobs, insurance, incomes, businesses, account balances, etc. Not to say we need to spend to get out of it...like the pres., we all need to be fiscally responsible for our own personal economies (at home) but dang!
Not seeing breadlines, but restaurants are f-ing packed every weekend and mall parking lots are buzzing with cars.
Unlike the great majority who choose to get their outlook from the mainstream media, you are one of the few that actually gets it. If we don't all sign off on the impending meltdown, when the economy turns around we won't be able to thank the New Messiah for his rescue.
I agree....buy now. Big Ticket item prices are at unheard of lows....as is the Stock Market. Some wisely invested money in stocks today should yield some handsome returns within 2-5 years.
|MC is probablly hit the least because most people that buy from them have probablly been the ones least hit by the economy.|
|I'm not talking of the down market but what is real we produce parts for the RV industry luckly only a small percent of our business. But some competitors that where heavy into have closed their doors and may not reopen. The market and credit will slowly return and those who survive and make the correct moves in the market will see a great return. Currently we have upgraded 2 of our machines and looking to retro fit another|
|Its like they always say....spend your money when it cant make you anything anywhere else...Why spend money when it could be invested and making you a boatload...|
|"Not seeing breadlines, but restaurants are f-ing packed every weekend and mall parking lots are buzzing with cars." |
You should come down to SoCal. You can walk into restaurants on a Sat night. Two hour waits from the past, are gone. Also, stroll through a mall on a Sat afternoon. You would be shocked.
Agreed about 90% of people still having jobs however luxury items such as boats, were purchased from home equity. That equity is gone.
|Here is a good little read http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123457303244386495.html|
|I work for the largest restaurant supply company in the US.... over $8 billion last year. While things are slow, their not down. People where your at might not be eating out, but they are eating out in most places. In my area December was the only month that was actually negative. |
$5 Footlongs are a big help these days.
Stop spreading the doom & gloom. The rumors some of you are throwing out there are insane.
(Message edited by bill_airjunky on February 16, 2009)
|Who do you work for Bill? I own 7 Subways in IL. The five dollar footlong is definetly doing the trick. Subway is one of the few chains actually seeing growth these days in the fast food category. Times are tough, but I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully late this year. There are great deals to be had. We moved into a lakefront house this winter which we couldnt have afforded a year ago. We didn't even get kiled on the sale of our old home.|
|NorCal Master Craft just opened another shop in Sacramento to go along with their Pleasanton location. I was in the Pleasanton shop last week. They were delivering a new X30 when I walked in. |
I can tell you that it IS the time to buy. The deals you can get on leftover '08 Master Crafts are amazing. You can get a new X-star for nearly what I paid for my X1 a few years back.
Like was said before.... Master Craft is at the top of the market. The people buying MC's are less likely to be pulling equity from their homes to buy a boat. They're typically older and more established. They're the ones likely to be taking advantage of the deals out there right now.
This is going to be a nasty year, but the reality is that people were living a bit too high on the economy over the last 5 years. I was celebrating every time I re-fied and saw what my equity was. Yee-haa, $200k in two years on equity alone. Yeah.... Fortunately I didn't believe the numbers. There was just no way for things to keep going at the rate they were. Now we're just seeing the market correct itself. The downturn in the economy is a knee jerk reaction that will eventually turn around. Hopefully sooner than later. I truly feel for the people losing their jobs.
|NorCal MC also just closed the Isleton shop last November....|
|And good ridence.... That shop was an anchor around NCMC's ankle. Nice people working out there, but why?? I'd imagine the Sac shop will be much more successful.|
|This is a fun thread, so I'll play. If the big 3 sold only a hundred each last year, how many are we going to guess Epic sold?|