|Ok, most of you have seen my other thread and know that I'm getting a 2000 Super Air. |
As it seems to be the most universally loved boat on here I'm super stoked to try it out. My brother in law is picking it up next weekend. From there I have to either visit Sacramento from Utah, or arrange transport. So I have some time on my hands and I've tried to do some research into the boat. But I still have questions. So a guy buying my first Nautique, what advice do you have to get the most out of it.
Here's what I have on the list of repairs and upgrades right now.
1. Upholstery work. Back sun deck and various tears will be replaced.
2. Upgraded ballast, I'm thinking some side sacs on top of the hard tanks.
3. Needs speedo and tach....Advice on this?
4. Sandbags in the ski locker
5. A good bath and wax.
6. Already has a sweet stereo.... and a new secondary battery, but I'm told that the stock alternator isn't putting out enough juice...Special requirements for an upgrade, or just charge after use?
7. This one doesn't have the wrap around seating, is there a nice way to upgrade that without dropping thousands?
|Sand and oil that teak platform along with the good bath and wax. |
Why the sand bags if your adding fat sacs? This hull doesn't need much weight on top of the stock ballast for a pro class wake. In fact, stock is fine for most people. If this boat doesn't have the belly tank get some pop bags for the locker.
Add a jump seat rather than trying to create wrap around seating. Check Planet Nautiques classified. I see them for sale occasionally there and I believe a few guys have even made their own.
Replace the gauges with the Faria gauges used on the 2003 Nautiques.
Definitely replace any interior that is torn. Will only get worse over time.
Add some tower speakers and you'll be set.
Congrats and enjoy!
|There is a thread somewhere on Planetnautique.com where a guy did a wrap seat with an integrated cooler. It was pretty sweet and VERY functional. |
Integrated ballast in the bow......
Nice ride Rob.....
|By Rod (rvh3) on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 9:03 am:
I'll link you to some articles that I found when I discovered the ballast system in the 2000-01 SAN's were terrible. Also, do you need the speedo or tach if you install Perfect Pass?
|By Rod (rvh3) on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 9:18 am:
|By Rod (rvh3) on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 9:22 am:
|By Rod (rvh3) on Saturday, January 31, 2009 - 9:30 am:
|Try again, |
This is a copy and past from another thread. The Author is Dragon88 and it is as good of rundown as I have seen.
In 1995 Correct Craft released the Super Sport Nautique. It was a 21' V-drive family cruiser.
In 1999 Correct Craft released the "Super Air Nautique" using the same hull. It has rear flat ballast tanks (LCS) as well as a the first generation flight control tower. (FCT)
In 2000 Correct Craft released their new dash layout "Smart pod" with digital Teleflex gauges, that are extremely prone to burning out along with the second generation FCT. This was also the first year for colored decks. 2000 was also the 75th anniversary of the CC brand. Boats received a diamond sticker on the windshield that noted this. New reverse "N" gelcoat scheme, but the "classic" graphic/3 stripe was still an option.
2001- Correct Craft at some point does away with true wrap around seating for the "stadium seating." It is also the first year of the 3 piece rear hatch.
In 2002 The deck was redesigned to make more room, the sloped transom of the 01 and previous SS now had a more squared off look it. The boat received a new interior vinyl pattern, which disappeared in 2003. This is also the last year that the PCM GT-40 was offered. 2002 also marked the first of the "Team" edition boats, this package included Kicker audio speakers, wedge tanks, and an optional center ballast. 2002 Also brought a new gelcoat pattern. The buyer could now choose: deck, hull, primary, secondary, and third stripe colors.
In 2003, the SAN saw another dash and interior, these two elements would stay with the boat for the rest of it's run. The Super Air Nautique was also renamed the "210" a name which was reverted mid season back to "Super Air 210" due to consumer outcry. 2003 is widely regarded as a favorite year due to the fact that it contains the best of the new model (04-05) boats + a colored deck (2003 was the final year of production for this.) the actuated trunk covers. 2003 was also the final year of the Python 502 motor in the Super Air and the first year that the PCM Excalibur 330 became standard. This year the CD player was also re-located to the glovebox.
2004- brought us the 3rd generation of the FCT, this was the first year since 2000 that one could no longer order a colored deck. The 2004 boats also saw a new latching system on the back hatches to replace the actuated doors. These are referred to as the "knee busters." 2004 also did away with the 3rd stripe. The SAN from this point on only had Hull, Primary, and Secondary color options.
2005- Correct Craft reverts to the second generation FCT tower. The team edition boats are now outfitted with Polk Momo, and for the first time boats come from the factory with exposed speaker grills. In either 2004 or 2005 (or somewhere in-between those years.) CC added more reinforcement to the bow to make the boat less likely to porpoise.
2006- Correct Craft once again names the 210 the "210 Air" The '06 brought many changes, the most drastic being the new PCM- V-drive transfer case. This new V-drive replaced the Walters unit. The PCM V-drive was smaller, but also changed the prop rotation to a clockwise(right hand rotation.) Along with those changes the problematic "Helm control" system was replaced all together, they used Jabsco ballast puppies (auto reversible pumps.) so there is one pump per tank. The new ballast system drains the water under the hull and as a result the ballast overflow/and drain ports on the hull were eliminated. 2006 also brought a new fourth generation flight control tower. Which seemed to be a modified version of the new SAN220 tower. due to the differences in beam width, the new FCT4 for the SAN has additional bracing. They also elongated the windshield...
In 2007 CC killed off the SAN that we all loved and had loved for over a decade.
To answer your question, the hull has not changed from 1995 when the first Super Sport Nautique rolled off the floor. There were only changes to the deck, and various other trim and mechanical changes. Still one of my favorite hulls. My list of changes is not exactly comprehensive but to my knowledge it is fairly close.
Call your boat what you want, but I think SAN covers it all. Everything else is just dressing. In fact, I find it amusing when people say the SANTE has the best wake, like the SANSE or SANLE or SAN or SS have a different wake.....
Oh...I call my '03 "my boat" or "my dingy."
|Rob, not sure what the stock amp is putting out on that boat but I would guess somewhere in the 50-60 range. If you can get me some numbers off of it I can probably find a few different options tha work that can range from 50 amps up to 105. |
The only other problem may be that you may have just a single 1/2 inch belt to drive the alternator. Getting up over 100 amps may be pushing it on what the belt can handle.
Send me a PM or an email to the one in my profile and I can see what I can come up with.
|Seat skins: |
Talk to wakejunky about the seat
www.wakejunky.com, there are a few others on planetnautique that have done this or similar solutions. If you are in Sac maybe you just go check his out. Get yourself some gatorgrip to replace the padding on the rear transom while you are there.
Faria gauges, search planetnautique, it's very very common, lots of help available there.
I am guessing the boat has a GT-40? You can easily upgrade to a 100A alternator, search skidim, part number 111608 $267 for alternator and wiring harness.
If money is tight you might consider primal seat skins as a temporary fix (towell materials).
Get yourself an Acme 536/644/1150 (13.5 x 16) prop and keep that OJ as a spare if you are going to run extra ballast. With the GT-40 you should be good with one of these props.
Move those speakers to the front of the panels and add grills. They will look and sound much better.
Don't use sandbags in the locker, get yourself a nice sack instead if you tow the boat. Towing an additional 500lbs around is a bit tough on things, and 500lbs of sand can sink the boat to the bottom if it ever goes under. warning-controversial subject...
|the OEM ballast is just enough for us in my 02 sante |
welcome to the nautiques family! it's a happy one :p
|I have that same alternator in stock at work. I will see what our price is. What is weird is he uses 111608. There is a genuine Delco that we stock that is part number 19020608. This is the Delco 7si. Delco rates it at 70 amps but it puts out closer to 90. We have a newer one in stock that is an 11si. This is what Indmar is putting on their newer motors. It is rated at 95amps but I have yet to test and see what it really puts out. The 11si is a little big bigger frame so you need a little more clearance. |
I am just guessing but by the number skidim is using I would say their 111608 is the 70amp(closer to 90) Delco partno 19020608.
|1. Prop - Acme 856 |
2. Ballast - Take out hard tanks = put in 750's
ski locker = fly high fat seat bottom (fits perfectly -- no sandbags needed.
front (if it is playpen, one pig piece) - fly high bow sack (triangle one) -
more weight than you'll need but it is nice to have it.
To replace speedo/RPM I would get Star Gazer PP -- will do the work of both, but better.
For the non-wrap seating -- I have seen coolers (many colors) with padding on the top so you can use it as a seat.... you'll spend like $50 and have another cooler and seat(s)
|Someone mentioned nautiqueskins.com or christines enterprizes. I used them to replace my rear seat back and my rear deck. It was a perfect match and reasonably priced. |
As for ballast take it out and build a new system. My buddies 99 SAN same as yours is getting pulled and replaced. I have a thread on Planetnautique on installing a modern ballast system using ballast puppies and Fly High pro series bags. Go to planet Nautique and search for 1998 Super Sport Ballast. It will fill 1800lbs of hidden ballast in about 7 minutes.
I like the 644 Acme prop as a compromise. The 856 is a stronger prop out of the hole but less top end.
For the alternator you can buy a PCM factory 100amp upgrade with a new wiring harness. I think it will run you around $300 total.
You will love the boat and wake. In my opinion albeit a biased one the best wake ever produced.
|If it's your first Nautique you don't need extra ballast in the rear. The wake of this boat is stock already up to par compared with other boats with +2500lbs in it. |
But spend some money on a dedicated ski locker sack with a dedicated Jabsco pump. You're gonna love it!
The stock alt is indeed 55 or 65amps. Not much, but it handles a moderate stereo system.
Just enjoy your boat. Get the ski locker sack, new skins, Perfect Pass and run some hours on that boat!
|Thanks for all the great advice. |
What is the stock ballast system like? The valves are a new concept to me? I know it has two hard tanks that weight about 400lbs? What kind of pumps does it use?
-I've always used simer pumps in the past...not jabsco-for price--
-Oh, and I'm definately not afraid of big wakes, I've been ridding since 1993.
Last, I've got $1,000 budget for repair, upgrades etc. I figure $200 to my brother in law to get it out to Utah.
How would you spend the $800? (most important first and list your estimated cost)
|~$300 - prop - acme856** |
~400 - bow sac/ski locker sac/ bigger back bags and plumming supplies to do ballast**
~100 - new head unit
**those go hand in hand, if you don't get one, you don't need the other kinda thing... but they should be #1 and #2
|By Rod (rvh3) on Wednesday, February 04, 2009 - 6:13 pm:
|Skip the tach/speedo replacement and go straight to a 4 line perfect pass. The money spent on those guages is a waste once you get perfect pass.|
|you can pull the hard tanks and just replace with bags in the rear. probably not the ideal set up but works just fine on my friends 02 and it will save you money. definitely get a locker sac and bow sac, as well as the prop mentioned above. If you want to run a lot of weight the 856 is a no brainer. |
personally Id opt for ballast before PP but I guess it depends on the driving competency of your regular crew.
|I agree with Scott. Perfect Pass is nice, but that alone puts you over your budget unless you piece one together. Unless everyone you ride with just really sucks at driving, do what Nick says. Reprop and add ballast. You may find out that you don't care about perfect pass in the future. We bought our X2 with intentions to put PP on, but we can all drive well and $1000+ can be put to use in other places that are going to make a real difference. |
As a side note, one of the first upgrades after marriage will be PP. Keep that whole situation in mind.
|hey rob when is your brother bringing your boat your profile say your from utah im from rexburg i'm going to san jose next week i could bring your boat back if you dont want to wait for your brother its an offer|
|I'm pretty pissed right now. I just got this e-mail from the guy last night. |
Just want to let you know. We talked about it and we decided to refinance the house and keep this boat as well. Iím sorry for wasting your time.
I wish you the best in finding the right one. Also, please let me know if you want me to send your check back or destroy it.
Thank you and please except my apologies,"
Not only is it totally dishonest to back out now its also against the law. From my contract law classes we have a binding contract. I have a signed bill of sale. I have given him a $100 check. We have agreed on the price. I have a loan and was supposed to send the funds today. There is agreement and consideration.
I wrote him back and asked him to please go through with the transaction. I'm pissed. What should I do?
|By Rod (rvh3) on Thursday, February 05, 2009 - 5:22 pm:
|Keep it my a$$. He sold it too someone else at a higher price! I'm pissed also.......|
|Oh man that sux big time. I am not sure you could sue for performance on a boat deal. I think what the guy did was horrible but legally you are probably stuck.|
|Kharma will take care of that. Had it happen to me once, and I put it this way; If he would do that to you, he would lie his ass off about the boat. Best to move on, it's a buyers market. You'll find something if you are looking.|
|Rod, I'd bet money you're right, he had told me that he had two boat payments right now. He said he had purchased an 05 X-Star for $30k. So um yah I have my x-star but I need two boats.... |
I'm not gonna sue the guy. I just want to let him know that he's not fooling anyone if he decides to back out.
I asked him nicely and he said he needs a couple of days to think about it...Probably how much it will take for the other buyer to get him the cash.
If I hear anything I'll let you know.
|By Rod (rvh3) on Friday, February 06, 2009 - 6:58 pm:
As Troy stated, "Karma".
I once drove to Sacramento to buy a Centurion and on the way up, the seller called me and told me he sold it to someone else. I was pretty upset but diverted the family to "Oldtown Sac" and we had a great time. One week later I tripped across a 1992 Nautique Excel that kept us totally content for 4 years(Great boat)!
Moral: Some things are meant to be.
|Deal may be back on. Over the weekend he said that the boat is mine....then a few minutes later he said he would take $16.5.....I had offered an extra $500 to help make it happen, mostly just to see what his motivations were. |
My brother in law looked at the boat and said its solid. I'm torn on giving him the extra $500 as thats most of my rehab money. And the fact that I have a bill of sale signed by him for $16k. I realize these normally sell for 25-29ish. What do you guys think?
|In this market you should be able to replicate this deal fairly easily. If you need some local help with the logistics let me know (temporary storage, loaner tow vehicle, etc.). |
Close the deal at $16k or move on.
|that guys sounds like a flake. |
i had posted a wanted to buy add here and on planet nautique and had a guy email me. i called him up and he said, yeah i'd like $X amount. i said i'll be down next weekend to look at it. it was a sweet 03 SANTE all black, black deck, it was NICE (at least in pictures). then the guy calls me back and says he's not selling it. flake. i understand it's not like i had money down or anything, but i was a serious buyer and he contacted me!!! getting jerked around like that is the worst, especially on an emotional purchase like this. like someone else said if it doesn't work out, you'll find a better boat.
|someone just posted a SUpersport w/ tower etc etc etc in the for sale boats on here. 20k. |
check it out
|saw this today. 2003 sanger V10 for 19500. It needs PP, rear ballast and a few other things but it has low hours. |
|By Rod (rvh3) on Sunday, February 08, 2009 - 3:57 pm:
|That V210 is nice!|
|Ok, I'm doing the deal. I just got off the phone with him and I met him half way. We're doing $16,250... Sucks to have to pay extra but I think its worth it... I just don't feel as good about it. So now I only have $500 extra to play with and most of that will probably go to recovering the back deck. The whole thing has had me really stressed out. I guess I'm not relaxed yet. Maybe tomorrow I'll get excited about the boat again.|
|Rob ~~ Are you still in the Provo area or did you change homestead with your move back to UT? If you have questions on getting the ballast, David that I ride with put in his locker sack with pump in his 02 SANTE. Can't wait to see this project finished, you keeping this one or doing your usual method to owning a boat?|
|my advice... screw the back deck.,, just let it be|
|Was messing around with my profile. |
|Deal is done. |
Now I'm excited. My bro in law will be bringing it out to Utah at the end of the month. No need for it earlier as the lake is frozen solid.
I'm interested to see what needs to be done vs what I would love to do. It sounds like the stock ballast uses aerator pumps and the valves are on cables to switch between open and closed. Can these areators be switched out with better ones?
I'm probably just adding sacks on top of the hard tanks. Upholstery work, and any necessaries like an impeller or functional items.
I was looking at the new perfect pass stargazer and its only $1,200. I think I'll put that in when I sell my dirt bike. I'm seriously dying here waiting for winter to end....Anyone else?
|congrats! ditto on the weather. i'm really itchin' for spring. good luck with it and post up some pics when you finally her home.|
|Winter end? Last I heard you live by the lake and I bet we will be the first to session it. Your invited and plenty of dry suits to go around! It will at least give you a good taste of the SANTE with stock ballast!|
|ok u lost me,what boat did you buy this time,that sanger,the supersport??which one or is it another one..details are needed since all this drama went down already.. |
|Josh, I'm down. |
Bill. The original deal went through for the 2000 Super Air.
|cool glad to hear it|
|Rob-I would say just let it ride. Once it hits the water, you will find out really quick what to do next. I have a guy that can fix the upholstery. He repairs the cuts and air brushes it after. You cant even tell it was there. If you need any info or upgrades let me know. Congrats on the purchase. |
How come I was never invited?lol
|I HEAR YA!! |
210 owner waiting for the freaking winter to go away!!!
|Quick Question: |
Can you powerturn nautiques? Seems like my other inboards were dogs for turning.
|If I were you, I would have backed out on the deal on principal alone. The dude put you through the ringer, then turned the screws on you for an extra $250? Plus, he's got 2 boats, then all of a sudden he doesn't? |
Sounds to me like the kind of guy who wouldn't be up front about the history of the boat and any issues. I wouldn't trust him at all.
But that's just me...and my $.02
|I was very tempted to back out on principle alone and tell him to go to hell. Instead I didn't tell him off and just asked him to reconsider. The extra $250 pissed me off, but the next closest boat was a supersport 3-4 years older and 4k more....So pay 4k more or $250 more... The decision was financial, not emotional. (Except that I'm stoked about the boat.) That being said, I'm now nervous that when it shows up it will be thrashed, or siezed, or needing some major repair. My Bro checked it out and said it does in fact exist and looks pretty good. The guy is providing service records as well. His conciense can deal with the $250. I think it will be worth it in the long run.|
|The 2000 ballast is a bit strange, but on ours worked flawless... You have 2 tanks in the back. You have 2 aerator pumps at the port side of the engine in series... One is for filling the ballast tanks (through the other pump) and the othter is for emptying (through the other pump). The tanks are independtly vented by 2 knobs at driver side. This way you can control which tanks (or both) needs to be filled, emptied or left alone. |
In our setup this worked without a problem as long we had the boat...
Once again, if this is your first Super Sport/Air and you are on a tight budget, leave the ballast upgrade. You don't need it!! Put Perfect Pass in it, board racks, fix the upholstery, tower lights, stereo etc... You don't need ballast in the back (or at all). If you buy a fatsack, but it in front (or ski locker).
Congrats with the boat, enjoy it!
Just a bunch of random pics. Sorry if they're repetitive. He's delivering the boat today.
|het where did all those holes in the transom come from?looks like something was screwed in then taken back off?? or maybe its an illussion or angle of the pic..?|
|I've got some Nautique guide post covers. The vinyl needs some work. Custom Covers (Justin)does top notch work. That chip in the hull by the roller can be fixed by Ralphs boat repair. He is the best in town. If you have any questions, please let me know. Congrats and good luck.|
|By Rod (rvh3) on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 9:27 am:
|You'll probably be surprised what a complete washing/cleaning will do for the new ride. How can someone neglect such a nice boat? I'd say that it will look as good as new within a year. Those transom tie downs are as tacky as can be. For around $30 you can get rid of them and clean it up with these. |
|wow. now that i think of it, i belive that air nautiqe was the first boat manufacture that started the whole wake idea, sry lol i just was thinking of that. air nautiqe made sick boats 9 years ago to. dang|
|bill -> the screws/holes are from the plastic thingys, CC put them on the SAN's to lessen the amount of exhaust fumes coming up to the swim platform/back of boat. Seems common for them to be missing.|
|You can get the cups on whitelake marines website. They are a dealer with an online parts shop. www.whitelake.com|
|yeah you should get the black cups. the only thing that sucks is having to take them off when you need to tie the boat down...that's how I cracked mines a few times! 210 FTW:D|
|You can tie the back down to the platform brackets. No need to remove the cups|
|What are the cups? Does anyone have a picture of them? |
I asked this before, but can you powerturn in these boats? (not like to pick up a rider but messing around will these do the really sharp turns?) My other boats seemed like pigs in the turns.
|By Rod (rvh3) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 9:27 am:
|Did you get it delivered? |
In my experience, the 210's don't handle all that great. I've driven Sanger V230,215, Malibu VLX, and 01 X-Star, and they all turn better then mine. That is at slow speed, around the docks, turning around to get downed rider, ect.
|rod,thats because the prop turns backwards and makes it hard to adjust when you have been driving regualr prop rotated boats IMO|
|Ok I'm looking at props and I think I found a good deal on a 644. Below are some of the searh results I found, including a conversation with Bill Weeks over at ACME. He suggested the 1234 prop, but its out of my price range. So he followed up with the 644 or 536. From above I have two votes for the 644. What do you think? |
644-13.25X16.00VR4B 1.125 .105 Cup $279 (used)
536-13.50X16.00VR4B 1.125 .105 cup ?
1234-14.50X14.25VR4B 1.125 .105 cup for blade nibral propeller. The 1234 sells for $619.00.
Acme 1236-13.50X14.25VR4B 1.125 .150 cup $509
1464-13.50X14.25VR4B 1.125 .105 $509
Oh, and the boat just got dropped off at my brother in laws house in Brentwood, CA. To Utah on the 27th.
|I'm no help on the prop, but I wanted to say congrats on the boat. After following this thread for a while, it's good to know it is finally in family hands and is definitely yours. I'm sure you will love it.|
|Screw it, I just bought the 644 it was on ebay for $229 + shipping. Didn't want to lose it. Ben, Thanks Man and thanks to everyone for your advice. Thats why I love this place. The tension about this deal has been killing my productivity at work as I keep obsessing about the boat. |
So did I make the right call on the prop? I'll probably sell the stock prop on ebay and the exchange will cost me around $100.
|I haven't seen it in person, but boy, that trailer looks purpleish...If its that bad when I see it it may become a black trailer. The gelcoat should clean right up with a good wax, back to....Maroon/redish.|
|By Rod (rvh3) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:58 pm:
|Great news Rob, |
Once again, if you need any help with anything let me know. I live in Brentwood.
|Yah Rod, you can let me come out and ride with you. Your profile looks sweet! Virtually an identical boat, except well taken care of. |
Out of curiosity do you know Paul Judd?
|Rob ~~ Keep the stock prop, you never know when you need one to get you through (Powell). Congrats on the boat and can't wait to see it when it's done! Let me know if I can lend a hand in any way. |
I have a ballast bag that Ryan S. gave me that I'm not using. I'm going to guess that it's 300 - 400 lbs, you can have it if you have a use for it. No holes and no attachments for pumps.
|By Rod (rvh3) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 4:27 pm:
|If you're ever out this way I'll definately take you on the Delta. |
I don't know Paul Judd.
|got a 644 on my 02 210. I like it. we use oem ballast only... |
and yeah keep the stock prop and a puller kit IN THE BOAT!!!!!!
|+ Acme 856|
|The 644 is a great all around prop. If you load your boat w/tons of people and weight you will notice that the 1234 would work better, but will over rev. down at LP (maybe). Good choice on the prop. If you need any help, I am just around the point.|
|I have an 856. We run a lot of weight and are at elevation. The 856 is the prop if you need the most hole shot available.|
|So the dealer may be mistaken but I stopped by today and they said you could send the gauges back and they would cover them under warranty. That would be sweet till I can save the cash for perfect pass. Speaking of marriage saver I usually have my wife drive and she gets stressed.|
|My brother in law was supposed to be coming to Utah today, but it looks like his wife is not feeling well. They were coming out as we're baptising out daughter on Saturday. Anyway, looks like he can't make it anymore. Anyone coming to Utah from Sacramento any time soon? If you happen to be coming I'll give $150 for gas. Thanks guys.|