|Quick question: Would cash rewards entice you to buy a boat or not? The reason I am asking, is because we are considering offering it with my X Star, to maybe help it down the road. The economy here in IL isn't all that bad, so my dealer suggested that we offer rewards on the boat. I am just trying to get a feel for whether or not it would help.|
It has gotten quite a bit of interest at the boat show this week. If its not too much, I think it would help.
|By coz (coz) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:27 pm:
|It's a bait & switch program. I'm still waiting for someone to come forward and say it worked. Go ask this question on Team Talk and see what you get.|
|I asked the MC dealer at the boat show how many |
people get the money after three years. He said
13% then I asked why would you want to pi$$ off
87% of your buyers with the chance of big cash that will most likely never come.
There are so many new 07,08 MCs out there not to mention used boats I think they need a real sale
not a lottery ticket.
|It's not a lottery ticket. It's hinged on your responsibility....and very few have it. |
I have two friends who bought MC's and their rewards came due last year. They both got it.
|I got mine...it was a great day because it allowed me to pay off the boat before the economy went to crap. It works if you follow the rules that are spelled out and you are responsible.|
|Keep in mind the small print says the amount of |
payout is based on the number of contracts successfully completed. As more become aware of the perfection needed in all the paperwork this
may cause the payout to go down even if its done
|"why would you want to pi$$ off 87% of your buyers...?" |
This is the part that I don't get. Whether or not Cash Rewards Inc. is a reputable company is not what concerns me. What baffles me is that Mastercraft would endorse any sort of program that has the potential to leave a bad taste in their own customers' mouths. Even if missing out on the money is their own fault, upon learning this most folks will feel angry and possibly even cheated. They won't associate that bad feeling with Cash Rewards (an unknown company). They will associate it with Mastercraft and/or their local dealer.
It's obvious why they do this... allows the dealer to throw this at folks when they are looking for help on pricing. That way dealer doesn't have to drop price at all. He just says, "What if I told you that you could get $25k back in 3 years." Suddenly a $70k X-2 doesn't seem so expensive anymore.
I've had two dealers run this at me. It's a HUGE turn off and makes me wonder about Mastercraft as a whole.
P.S. It's a good thing this thread is not on Team Talk... Big Brother would shut it down (no joke).
|By coz (coz) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 6:24 am:
|[QUOTE]P.S. It's a good thing this thread is not on Team Talk... Big Brother would shut it down (no joke).[QUOTE] |
I don't think anyone could count how many times this has come up on Team Talk and every time as sure as sheet the mods shut down the thread because of the bad rap it has.
|Keep in mind this program is not offered as a closer the buyer has to buy into it. I was quoted 750.00 per 5000.00 in rewards 25000.00 |
will cost 3750.00 up front with no guarantee of any return. I think MC is hurting their base with such a risky promotion. After looking at
the cost of a MC without the rewards they are not competitive in today's market I went with CC.
(Message edited by mhunter on January 27, 2009)
|I look at it this way: It is mathematically impossible for this company to keep operating this way. They cannot give out the people's rewards that are promised so they have to count on consumers who forget to send it in, or do it incorrectly. Or, they will do what seems to be happening, and nitpick and deny as many as they can. Since the cash rewards is so big, most of us are not going to forget about 25K...so this company will not be around in 3 years, I guarantee it. |
BTW, the small print also says they can payout less if they have too many successful rewards applications.
There are people who have gotten their rewards, and even had to post copies of their posted checks on TMCowners to prove it works. But this ponzi scheme is mathematically impossible, so it will eventually fail.
I think you are better off talking about how good your boat is, instead of making a guy wonder if cashrewards is a scam or not.
|Well first and foremost, glad to see the die hard Malibu fans have managed to twist this around and blow it out of proportion. Reminds me of their "Boat of the Year" awards from POWERBOAT MAGAZINE. Gee, how difficult can it be to be awarded "Boat of the Year" in the Ski Boat division, when you are the ONLY COMPANY THAT ENTERS? If you have not had the opportunity to, pick up a copy of Powerboat Magazine. Or just go to your local magazine rack and flip through it. You will not see a single article, picture, advertisement or anything else that even remotely comes close to pertaining to our sport, with the exception of course being Malibu's ad. I pose this question to all you Malibu dealers: If Cash Rewards is such a "scam" or whatever you have come up with to tarnish it, then why has Malibu, along with other stern drive and inboard manufacturers contacted Cash Rewards inquiring about offering the program? |
In today's economy, the boat sales game is different than it was even a year ago. Dealers and manufacturers are turning to new and different strategies and marketing plans in order to sell boats. Customers are demanding more "steak", and foregoing the "sizzle". If you have access to the latest market share reports, you'll see that Malibu, a company that bragged for years and years about their #1 market share position has now slipped into second. Could it be that consumers are finally seeing through the smoke and mirrors that the Malibu Marketing Department has been so successful in overusing, and instead seeing the boats for the illegitimate excuse for a tournament ski boat that they have become?
To address some individual comments:
Coz - You have a 1997 Pro Star. Do you have any first hand experience with this program? Or are you simply one of the ignorant that sits in anonymity behind your computer and jumps on the bandwagon? Just wondering.
Wake (buguru) - Congratulations, you can cut and paste links. What you fail to recognize, or acknowledge, is the fact that all but one of the complaints on the complaint board apply to REAL ESTATE. The success (receiving your check) of this program is directly related to the amount of detail and explanation the consumer receives from the party offering the reward. All the complaints really say is that some crummy real estate agent wanted to flip some old houses and offered the CR program without giving the consumer all the details, thus leaving a bad experience behind. The ONE person that did post in regards to boating had not even had first hand experience with the program, but instead walked away from the program due to bad publicity.
Getting Older and Elle Duke - Thank you for your honesty, and thanks for helping to set the record straight. Congratulations Elle on receiving your reward and for paying off your boat!
Michael Hunter - No one that has received their reward on a MasterCraft purchase has received less than 100% of the payout. As to your comment about MC not being competitive in today's market, and instead going with a CC, wow. What did you buy? Apples to apples, I would put MC up against anything out there. As of September, 2008 MasterCraft has the number 1 market share in the inboard industry and has had this standing for over a year. Yep, they sure are going backwards! Very rarely in America do you have a company producing products on the very high end of it's industry AND enjoying the #1 market share. Go MasterCraft! At least the Malibu guys at the boat show are finally pricing their boats with FUEL INJECTED motors, rather than the carburetor equipped engines they did in years past, so as to show a more substantial savings. Oh you clever and witty Malibu Marketers! Sure, CC prices have stabilized a bit more over the past 5 to 10 years, but that's due in large part to lack of innovation. When you don't do anything new, and instead sit back on your haunches and offer the same old hull options for 10 plus years, it's a lot easier to save a few bucks. Case in point is the Byerly Boat. For once CC did things half slow, instead of halffast. (Take that as a compliment.) However, note the sticker price on the Byerly Boat.
TallTigeGuy - Cash Rewards, Inc. has been around for about 7 or 8 years, but other businesses with the same operating procedures have been around here in the states and over in the UK for over 20 years. I understand your skepticism, but at the same time, you should really become more informed before you start to "guarantee" anything. Regardless of if Cash Rewards Inc. is around in three years, their role is hand's off starting a week after the purchase. From that point forward, the money is in the escrow account assigned to all the certificates issued during that time period. It's up to the independent third party administrator to approve or deny claims, as well as handling the payout.
Alright, now that we've got that out of the way, let's clarify a few things. Obviously I have some affiliation with a MasterCraft dealer. However, instead of choosing to do as buguru has done, and simply bash "the other guy", I wanted to use this opportunity to set the record straight. Is Cash Rewards for everyone? No. But, according to the above responses, the only person that has had first hand experience with this program was paid the full amount. If your dealer takes the time to go through everything with you, leaving nothing to chance, why wouldn't this be a great program? Because some half-brained real estate agents used it as a quick solve for clearing some of the market? I'd venture an assumption that said agent(s) did not due their diligence in explaining the program.
We can all sit back behind the safety and anonymity of our computers and throw stones. Just like we can all stand around the water cooler come monday morning and talk about how (insert favorite sports team) should have done this, or if only (Insert 2nd place finisher in Sunday's Daytona 500) had done that... Until first hand experience is obtained, it's nothing more than speculation.
|My god what flavor is that kool-aid?|
|Question, Ronix1. Why do you immediately turn this into a Malibu vs. MC debate? Who gives a Flying F about Malibu in this scenario? The original poster asked about his Mastercraft, and the Cash rewards program. Start another thread if you want to throw your ill-idvised figures about MC Vs. Malibu|
|Larzon - Easy answer. Wake (buguru) decided to weigh in on something and try to provide an answer. Unfortunately, said user did not have their facts straight, and instead made this an "us" vs. "them" debate. I simply wanted to provide some accurate information. |
Also, what is "ill-idvised"? I would assume you meant "ill-advised", in which case, I'm curious as to what you are getting at? Please clarify, and I would be happy to as well.
|I really don't want to get into this, your numbers are boats built, not sold to actual registered boaters|
|I disagree. Said statements are based on facts by the same independent company that ALL inboard boat manufacturers use to gauge market share. I've got my facts straight. Do you?|
|^ he has a point, actually, quite a few of them|
|I do CC won the JD power award again. Just thought I would throw that out.|
|I don't really care who has market share. From a buyer's point of view it is a pretty crappy way to try and sell a boat IMO and it would never entice me to buy a boat. Give me the discount you can afford to give up front and let that be it. Don't make me jump through hoops for three years to get a cash back reward. |
To MasterCraft's credit it is an option to potential buyers. It is not like you have participate in this program to buy one of their boats. I do think MC are priced a little too high and taking 25K off that total helps out with that.
|JD power is a joke.... surprised they didn't give it to multiple companies again so they can make more money... you do know thats how it works correct?... a company cannot use the "JD POWER" name unless then pay them like 2.? million bucks or so....so if like 3 companies win, they make 6 million. They are brilliant.|
|Winning the JD Power carries no weight. Similar to the Nobel ever since Al Gore won it.|
|To get into the JD power awards you pay to play...you don't pay to win. There are naming rights after but it is based on consumer response. Basically like any experiment you would do a sample size instead of poll the entire population. Every consumer had equal opportunity to respond.|
|I am glad the Nobel Piece prize carries no weight. I would take one.|
Well thought out response. I appreciate that at least someone presents the other side of the story. But as it is obvious to see, you are outnumbered by a huge margin. Not that makes anyone more correct, but it certainly should make perspective buyers question it.
I still want to know how I turn $750 into $5,000 over 3 years' time. It is impossible and going to be more difficult as the economy is now slumping. The company cannot survive if even 1/2 of people submit their paperwork correctly.
Would you care to give the name of any similar company that you state have made this work for 20 years or so?
|If its BS then why is Malibu, SeaRay and CC, not to mention a few others begging Cash Rewards for the same program?|
|By Mark (mvl) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 9:25 am:
|Lets use the $10,000 cash reward as an example...the numbers are easier. Premium entry fee is 15%, $1,500. Lets assume only 100 people are entered into the potential pool whereby Cash Rewards collects $150,000. Based on actuarial tables using statistical probabilities lets assume 13% are expected to get paid. That amount $10,000 cash reward times 13 (which would be 13% of overall pool of 100) so $130,000 is placed in an escrow account and the balance is working capital for the company...income. |
Assuming that the large sum of cash is not invested in anything at all and is not earning interest, 3 years later there is $130,000 in the account. Using the same statistical probabilities the 13 people would receive $10K each. however, if more than 13 do everything correctly, 20, then the amount per person goes down. The cash reward is for "up to" $10,000.
So if say, only 10 people are eligible...then there is more of a profit. I do not work there, just understand the program. I do not even have the exact details, but it is safe to assume that the escrow account is invested in treasury securities or something, FDIC back money market accounts or something where it is pretty safe and secure earning a couple %, not a ton of money, but still income.
I may be wrong.
|Yes and if 25 people decide to try and collect then they start making excuses of why that can't pay those people. Same pyramid scheme that has been going on for years. Ronix One may not like it being called that, and I am not knocking the system because there are several companies that run similar schemes (i.e. prepaid legal service, prepaid college tuitions). But call it what it is,"Hey we can't give it to everyone so take your chances you might get 25K back."|
|Wow.. I REALLY hate MC owners. And its not because I own a malibu either.|
|Mark, if 100 people pay $1500, why would only 13% of them expect to get paid? |
I don't understand this... is it like a puzzle? Fill out all the paperwork correctly and you get paid, but don't fill out everything correctly and you don't get paid? Am I reading this correctly?
I mean, why don't they just call it a raffle? pay $1000 bucks and 95% of that money will go into a pool where winners will be chosen and their boat loans will be paid off.
And why should Cash Rewards get to keep the $20k in your example? Is this the casino business where they just get to take a portion off the top? This all seems a little complicated to be super successful with the consumer.
|Erik - The only time claims are denied are when the applicant does not follow all the steps correctly. As has been stated above, all rewards are worded "up to $xx,xxx". If more than the statistical probability redeem full and complete "applications" for lack of a better term, then everyone is paid a percentage of their total certificate. What you are insinuating is that if more than the predicted number of claims are submitted, the independent third party administrator begins to "arbitrarily" deny claims, until an acceptable redemption number is achieved |
Again, we are talking about tens of thousands of dollars. I've been denied $10 and $15 rebates for not following all the steps correctly. Just because it is more money, why should it be easier to redeem? If anything, it should be more difficult. I won't get mad if I'm denied my $15 on my new Oral B electric toothbrush, because I was going to purchase it anyway. I will be the first to say this program is not for everyone. I even stated that above in my first response. As this is boat show season, most dealers offer more than one program as a "boat show incentive", let's call it "Promotion B". The point I'm getting at is that if a customer would rather pass on the cash rewards certificate, that is their business between themselves and their dealer.
To put myself in Joe Customer's shoes, I would be more than happy to receive 80, 70, or even 50% of a $25,000 cash reward, rather than substitute "Promotion B" up front.
Jonny - Wow man. Just Wow. You are truly a great ambassador to our sport. Great example for the kids.
Rick - Since apparently no one else out there has taken the time to research Cash Rewards, I guess the burden falls on me to attempt to shovel the BS out of the way that the naysayers have thrown out. To make this as simple as can be, just like any other rebate system, you have to follow all the directions in order to qualify. 100% of monies paid in are deposited into a date range specific fund. CR does not keep the $20K speculated above, or any remnants for that matter. As it clearly explains in the Cash Rewards FAQ section of their website, all monies remaining in the fund after the final redemption date are then donated to charity.
(Message edited by ronix_one on February 13, 2009)
You obviously have an agenda here. Everytime someone brings up even the SLIGHTEST comment about MC, EVERY MC owner always pipes in regardless of the situation. EVERY freaking time.
|Jonny - You're right. I do have an agenda here. All I want to do is put true facts out regarding this program. Period. I have no say whatsoever in what anyone else on this forum posts. And really, the same could be said about any brand out there. It's called brand loyalty. You yourself are guilty of it. You're disclaimer does nothing.|
Personally I am not going to go out and research this cash reward thing. The thread was started to see if it is something that would induce people to buy boats.
I am trying to grasp this idea and I am going off of what you say now. So, technically if everyone who joins the program fills out the paperwork correctly, and jumps through the proper hoops, they will get the exact amount they paid into the program. If that is the case, than to me this promotion is a sham. It is very different from a rebate where they say if you fill out the paperwork correctly you get your money, it isn't contingent about whether everyone else sends in their rebate or not. This sounds like a program that could frustrate many of your clients. Maybe you will benefit in the short run, but it doesn't sound like a long term plan on how to keep customers happy.
|By Mark (mvl) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:40 am:
|For the record, I just tried to answer the question asked by talltigeguy, to the best of my knowledge. so to answer the question asked of me, from what I've learned, the historical statistical payout % is 13%. Meaning 13% of people actually leave thier dealership, remember to register themselves online, send in the right stuff in the time period, yada yada yada. It doesn't mean that more can't, that is just the average of how many do. |
Again, assuming that more do, the total payout could go down, however, from what I've heard and was posted above, the payout has been 100% of the cash reward so, say if you were due $10,000, did everything right, you got the full amount.
I'm not the guy with all the answers, just responded to a question with what I thought was a fairly clear response.
Rick, you don't have to do it. I don't think the promotion will sell boats, but I think it's supposed to be used as a tool to say, well, thank you! Thanks for buying an MC and here's a great opportunity for you. That or don't do it and maybe get a couple bucks off the boat deal. Whatever.
Anyway, find the right boat for you and your family. If you buy the boat you want I'm pumped for you. I hope that answers the question asked of me. If not, I can further clarify. Thanks.
|Lets say you only get 15k in 3 years, thats still 15k you didnt have. Right? It doesnt cost the consumer anything, MC pays for the enrollment . I can tell you this. You have a better chance of getting money in 3 years, (no matter what the amount) when you buy a MC vs. anything else, because NOBODY else has the program. |
Hell in this day and time I would love to find 20 bucks in my pocket that I didnt know I had.
Home Depot added some huge amount of profit to their bottom line just from unclaimed gift cards.
Is that a gimmick? No ! Its people being lazy and not claiming their money. 13% is above the average of people nationwide claiming their prize with any promotion.
People forget and are lazy. Thats what Cash Rewards is banking on.
(Message edited by woreout on February 13, 2009)
|By Mark (mvl) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:56 am:
|fyi...a ponzi scheme... |
collect money from people, promise to pay high returns to everyone. Create an elaborate software program showing increasing account balances. When some want their money out you give it to them using the money that you got from other people because the original investment was already spent. I know because my wife gave some to some stupid program...she still refuses to believe it. It is a scam because the promise to pay EVERYONE far exceeds what has been received. ie...madoff.
this is very different. not robbing peter to pay paul.
|Ronix the only problem is that a plan like this does not take into account that at a recession time people will pay more attention and file properly, then what? So if a 100% of the people apply properly there is no way Cash Rewards can make the payout, therefore some NEED to be denied. Again I can care less one way are another people have the right to promote what they want and buy into what they want I am not knocking anyone. I am just letting you know my perspective of the program. Those facts that you throw out do not change my opinion of how the program works in fact they confirm it.|
|*NOISE FILTER ACTIVATED!* |
Quick answer: I wouldn't if I were the seller.
Longer answer: But I have a heart. I won't "make the sale at any cost" and potentially be associated with a system with a bad rap.
|Since there are so many dealers going bankrupt... I was going to open one up and do something similar. |
Sale Price of Boat - $85,000
Boat Show Rebate - $10,000
Boat Show Price - $75,000
With the exclusive 5 year SPIN Rebate.
On the 5th Anniversary of your boat... we go out and ride in it... and if you land a clean 1800 spin... we will give you $50,000 cash back.
Small print, only the driver, dealer representative, and the owner (rider) can be out in the boat. Must occur within 30 seconds after the boat has been taken out of neutral. Only factory ballast is allowed. No other wake building device or aparatus can be used. Maximum speed is 25mph and maximum rope length is 80ft. Boat must be driven in a straight line. This will be documented through HD Video and GPS tracking to ensure the trick was performed properly with the proper requirements being met... and there is about 6 more pages of small print.
|Also, Do you or do you not pay interest on the potential $25k for those 3 years? Its still a lose situation even if you get the full $25k back in the end. And I would also say that the majority of boat owners dont hang onto there boats for more then 2 or 3 years. I am sure that is a requirement too is it not? |
(Message edited by wakeboardlasvegas on February 13, 2009)
|Rick - You are forgetting to take into consideration the interest earned on the account, but aside from that, your synopsis is pretty straightforward. It is not a "rebate" per say, but that is the easiest way to explain the promotion. Is there risk involved? Yes. Is there risk involved with walking out your front door everyday? Yes. As has been stated numerous times now, if Joe Customer is skeptical, there are other avenues to explore, i.e. "Promotion B". However, if Joe Customer is buying a new boat anyway, this is just icing on the cake. |
Erik - Again, here is where the "up to $xx,xxx" terminology comes into play. Every certificate that is issued to the consumer is paid for. 100% of monies paid in for certificates are put into an account for a specific time period. If 100% of the certificates issued are in fact redeemed correctly, each certificate holder will then receive their portion of the payout.
Scott - Not sure how much clearer I can make this. This is not a "make the sale at any cost" type of "gimmick" as you are implying. If you can't afford the boat without it, or feel that it is too expensive, then pass on it. It's that simple. Again, if you are buying a new MasterCraft anyway, what's the harm in being able to offer it?
|Ronix One has an agenda alright, he gets on a thread were a boat owner ask about the cash rewards program and then go's on to bash several inboard manufacturers for NO REASON, nice post, real classy!!|
|By Mark (mvl) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 2:56 pm:
|you do not have to own the boat anymore to get it. I doubt that cash rewards is the reason for buying a boat...you buy a boat because it is what you want. Being given cash rewards is icing on the cake, you get it. Might it cause someone to make a purchase sooner knowing that it isn't available later...maybe. If they're buying a boat anyway, why not. |
Regardless if you get cash rewards or not...if you fill out your paperwork or not, you bought a boat...smile and have fun with your family. worrying about what cash rewards is and how it works is not the reason a person buys the boat.
Honesely jonny and others, be seriuos with yourselves...you're not just chillin' on your couch taking in a movie eating a frozen pizza going, "holy S#$%! according to this commercial I can get a $25K cash reward when I buy a new MC...Damn...I better get off my A$$ and go buy one to get that money! Nevermind I don't like water!"
It's about you buying a boat, spending time with family and friends, lifelong memories and relationships..am I wrong. I think everyone on this little thread is missing the point...
|Jeff - Really now? If you re-read this thread, you will see that I did not initiate the movement of this thread to the direction of where it currently is. Some people got on here, voiced their OPINIONS, and hijacked this thread. I simply wanted to post FACTS, rather than speculation as was originally tossed out there. In re-reading, also note that I complimented the new Byerly boat. Relax. I'm not the one on here saying I hate every owner of "brand x". Funny how you choose to bash me and no one else. Throw stones all you want, all I'm here for is to try to shovel through all the BS that is being tossed out.|
|Why not just make the dealer do all the work and let them collect the money? They could hire someone to do the paperwork on time and then discount the sale price by say $15,000. See, win win for everyone as I get to spend my time riding while some flunky with an eighth grade education fills out forms all day.|
|Didn't say you initiated the movement, but I also didn't see any reason for you to bash other Inboard manufactures either. |
If you call that a complement WRT the Byerly boat, then enough said.
|Is it a marketing tool? |
Is it misleading?
Will there be tools in place to keep the sales guys from lying about this promotion or keep people from following through?
Is there the possibility of it not going through?
Will people likely keep making payments on it if it falls through? (great for the lending problem we have right now)
I skipped out on this site for about a year but when did every thread turn into some hyper-confrontational giant e-pen!s contest? I will commend ronixone on his efforts of changing people's minds on this promotional treating it like a wordathon and typing as much as he can. Keep those fingers flying brother I'm sure you've not only reassured yourself that this is a 100% honest thing to do but changed at least one other person's mind about the whole thing. Will that one person come forward and explain how he changed their mind?
|Sure Scott, |
I will explain...I am trying to figure out what the cash rewards thing is all about. I thought that the buyer of the boat would have to pay a little bit more to get entered in this thing, then fill out the proper paperwork, like a rebate, in order to claim the the reward. But it sounds like the dealer takes care of the fee into the rewards program, and so no more expense is passed on to the boat buyer. If that is the case than I am all for it, if at no time there is a cost to the purchaser. I don't know that it will help a dealership sell more boats, but if it is something they want to do as a perk for their clients, than I would say go right ahead.
|Fact its a scam and if you fall for it you deserved to get taken.|
|( Ronix One) - Nice Malibu in your profile pic....... By the Way.. I worked at a dealer a few years back the offered cash rewards, and I personlly filled out the paper work for 7 different customers. Only one received their cash reward... They posted on the net, that they did not receive it, and got a phone call from cash rewards letting them know that if they took the posts down they would get their money.... Not everyone gets their dough with this program, enough said... NICE BU|
|Shoot Bret, you got me there. I mean, WHAT was I thinking posting up a picture of me riding behind a MALIBU of all things? Wow. This one time, at a wakeboard comp... I rode behind a Malibu! AND a few of my friends have Malibus that I ride behind too! Craziness! |
Now when you say you worked at a dealer, I would assume you meant a MC dealer. So to get this straight, you filled out the paperwork for the customer? Man, you got some cojones! If I were one of those customers, I would be coming after you, blaming YOU for not getting me my money!
Kevin - Come on, is that the best thing you could come up with?
And Scott - You got me too! I mean, wow, I'm way out of line posting on a forum and using correct grammar and big words! You want me to slow things down for you in my future posts?
(Message edited by ronix_one on February 14, 2009)
|Ronix- Your a real freakin peace of work.... How in the heck can they come after me, when the rewards company is the one who did not fulfill their promises... NOTICE TO EVERYONE>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stop posting because RONIX is the only person who is correct and he knows everything about everyone, and you are lucky that you are not dealing with him because he would come after you. I would love for you to come after me......|
|Larzon - Easy answer. Wake (buguru) decided to weigh in on something and try to provide an answer. Unfortunately, said user did not have their facts straight, and instead made this an "us" vs. "them" debate. I simply wanted to provide some accurate information. |
So (Ronix if You know soooo much about all this, by all means tell the whole world the facts. B/C Obviously the BBB, does not know the facts and I am sure they want to hear from some snot nosed kid)}
|Thanks Bret. I take that as a compliment. I'm not saying, in any of my posts, that I have all the answers or that I'm the only one that is right. But when others choose to post lies and misleading and incorrect information, I take offense to that, and I post a rebuttal. At which time, the other person either responds with an intelligent answer, or something along the lines of your above post. No one is grabbing your hands and forcing you to type your aggressive, anger filled responses to my posts. If you don't want to respond, then don't! |
I find it very interesting and downright sad that when I post an intelligent rebuttal to many of these loose accusations, the accuser resorts to either making fun of my grammar and vocabulary, expressing their hate for MasterCraft owners, or just typing something along the lines of what you just did to make you feel better. In all reality, I honestly hope it helps. This was never meant to be a pissing match. My intention was only to post fair and accurate responses to questions and statements made.
|Be fair and accurate. Lets post about the people who did not get their dough... When I was involved with the program I thought it was the next best thing... " CASH REWARDS".. However, now that I know what the real deal is, I would avoid it... PERIOD|
|Buguru - Have you ever met me? I think it's a little uncalled for to start slinging personal insults. I bet your customers, not to mention management at your marina, would be very proud of the level you've brought this discussion to. |
Bret - I have been fair and accurate. Never have I even remotely hinted that I thought this program would have a 100% payout. We all have seen the posts from the individuals that did not get their money. All I've done is posted some truths and accuracies that no one else, yourself included even though you were aware of them, had taken the time to.
I'm done with this for the weekend guys. And for the record, I never wanted this to become an argument. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
|I have no problems with the way that Ronix has posted his opinion of the program. |
I still emphasize the math behind it - that dictates decreasing cash rewards amounts as the percentage of successful applications goes up.
I also would emphasize that people who believe that they have submitted everything perfectly get denied. Hence the BBB removing them and such. That is my biggest concern...that I submit everything and then somehow still get denied.
|Here is my question...Does the boat buyer pay for the entry, or is the dealership saying they will pay for the entry? |
If the dealership is going to pay...that is a nice bonus, not enough to get me to buy a boat, but a nice bonus.
If the consumer has to pay the entry than it sounds like a bad deal to me.
|Customer pays or they bury it in the deal and make you think they paid. Either way, customer pays.|
|When I was looking at a MC at the boat show the dealer said the cost to get into the $25k program is $3,750 and MC expects the dealer to pay for it. He said that if I didn't feel comfortable with the program that he would discount the boat by $4k.|
|Scott, well it sounds like that is the answer I was looking for. If that were the case, than I would be pissed, and would never consider buying a boat from a dealership that does that.|
|I have tried to stay out of this but I have decided to take the bait. |
Ronix says that Malibu, CC, etc have been trying to get the cash rewards deal for a while. I am pretty sure (or was the case) that is up to a dealer to sign up with CR. There are also territorial selling rights allocated by Cash Rewards.
I sold Malibu's for a few years and a competing dealer about an hour north signed up for cash rewards. Said dealer is now out of business but sold most everything but CC's. They were a Malibu dealer and offered this program so let's not make this out to be something that only MC has offered and that EVERYONE else wants it. It is up to Cash Rewards as to who gets it. They would not give us information on the program because the competing dealership bought selling rights in our area (shady).
The one thing I am curious about is that this program has been out for a while now and we wakeworlders have yet to hear about anybody getting money back... Have yet to hear from anyone as to how much they received and have yet to see an actual check to a boat owner. You can look at their website and see all these small pics of people holding their checks but you cannot see how much its actually for on boats. You cannot even click on the pics to enlarge them.
It all just seems too good to be true right now.
|WOW... I've avoided this thread based on the title but had to check it out. So I've learned the following after reading this thread. |
1. Ronix hates all but MC.
2. Cash rewards is legit no matter what experience other people have with it.
3. Cash rewards is a pretty tacky way of advertising and trying to get boat sales.
Did I miss anything?
|By ixfe (ixfe) on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 11:06 pm:
|Ronix.... you claim to be oh so honest. Here is where you are telling lies: |
1) You claim that entry into the program is free to the consumer. Really?? Is that so?? I have been offered this program by two different MC dealers in two different markets over three years apart. When I told them I was skeptical, they immediately offered to sell me the boat for $3,750 less (the entry free). How is that free to me??
2) You claim this isn't anything MC is doing to sell more boats, it's just a nice way to say "thank you." You know what's sad about that claim? That you probably really believe it. If that was true, why does MC go to such efforts to advertise it? If it's truly a "thank you" the buyer wouldn't see it until after he bought the boat. Instead, it's plastered everywhere at the dealer, the boat show, in the magazines, etc.
Wake up, Ronix!
|My local MC dealer had the 25K subtracted from the sale price of the boats they were displaying at the boat show like that was what the boat would cost a potential buyer. Very suspect and stupid thing to do IMO. |
Might I add, their display was awful, hard to find, and only had left over 2008 boats that were way over priced. The 2008 X2 they had was priced more than a 08 230 for example. This isn't a knock on MC but more on the dealer. The local CC and Malibu dealers had booths that made MC look terrible for a buyer shopping the big three.
(Message edited by aarond0083 on February 16, 2009)
|"My local MC dealer had the 25K subtracted from the sale price of the boats they were displaying at the boat show like that was what the boat would cost a potential buyer." |
Amazing! This says it all... What a scam!!
|By Ronix One (ronix_one) on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 12:49 pm: |
And Scott - You got me too! I mean, wow, I'm way out of line posting on a forum and using correct grammar and big words! You want me to slow things down for you in my future posts?
I hope your condescending tone helps you sell more boats get a life bro (aside from blowing your english teachers). It's the internet. You're right man I don't know you, you don't know me. One day if you're in Az I will buy you a beer, we can sit and laugh @ this little disagreement.
In the end, I still won't use this program and not one person here has even started to sway me from feeling that way. Type more words, you won't change my mind.
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 9:27 pm:
Did I miss anything?
I'm apparently a mouth breathing inbred cretin sitting in my hovel barely living with an IQ in the single digits.
p.s. no offense to anyone who might be a mouth breathing inbred cretin sitting in a hovel barely living with an IQ in the single digits or any derivative thereof.
edit: for more properer inglush
(Message edited by w00taz on February 16, 2009)
|^^^You're a wierd mofo. |
(Message edited by 05mobiuslsv on February 16, 2009)
|thank you. thank you very much :D |
I am just a dude trying to have a good time. We're all brothers with a common hobby. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to be honest and share their opinion w/o all the emotionally charged or personal attacks. This board has gotten pretty weird in a two year span.
I think this kind speaks for itself.
|all that is is a way to make people think an mc can be reasonibly priced and some people fall for it.|
|I dont wear socks when I wear sandals|
|Ronix, I don't understand how you can even humor all the ignorant post about cash rewards. The dealer in most cases is paying the application fee so it can only benefit any new buyers. Even if more than the 13% qualify for the refund. The New MasterCraft owner can only benefit from this. You sure have a lot of patience sitting and answering all the misinformed posters.|
|I wouldn't use a program like this funded by a company going out of business!|
|Todd I agree this program would be a benefit to the buyer if the dealer paid the application fee. |
I have never seen any dealer willing to do that.
They told me it will cost $1500 per $10000 reward. That's a $3750 cost to the buyer up front to maybe get a $25000 return in three years.
|Nothing out of our pocket for the reward, and it has been paid for already, so no worries about dealer or manufacturer status from here on out. We also got an outstanding deal on the boat, so this was just gravy. Just sent in the registration package yesterday. |
Called CRI 4 times with specific questions about the process, and was able to speak to a human each time - and they were very helpful.
It's a gamble, but since we didn't have to cover the chips, why not. It did influence our decision to buy. Really got the wife on board.
You covered the chips. The dealer could have given you more discount had he not paid his portion of the CRI. If the dealer paid for it, he could have just given that money to you instead.
You saw this today on Team talk: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=28790
I am not sure that the guy can be verified, but I have no idea why anyone would want to randomly bash the program, unless it were true.
|I saw it, and until i see his bill of sale, it is meaningless. There have been multiple people who pop on teamtalk and whine that the ITPA rejected them. When asked for something more than their whining....they go poof. Gone. Goodbye. Crickets. |
You are right, I did cover the chips. I could have pushed them for another 2K off the price of the boat. I was already at the 27% off MSRP mark. I grabbed a loaded to the gills X2 to my specs with more options for what some dealers wanted for leftover promo 2008's. MC had just handed me ten 100 dollar bills because I agreed to buy a boat at that price. I was more than happy to make my little woman happy and roll the dice on the reward.
In that sense, I'll pass on the discount to the 29% level, and go to the casino with the CRI gamble.
We all have our motivations, but in most of the CRI discussion - the ones complaining and talking about it - are in no position to buy a boat because they don't want to or they can't afford it.
The very few who have had issues - take the time for some reason to find their way to the internet and troll. Why take the time to type a post on a forum, with something really questionable? No details, just some general statement. Then they run back to the hills and let all the folks who have no horse in the race speculate and throw all kinds of garbage around based on not one shred of hands on knowledge. Then it feeds for pages and pages.
It is kinda like going on a forum asking about how good a SAN 210 is. Then have 200 people tell you what garbage it is, and how it falls apart, bla bla bla. Then you find out that 2 of them have SAN 210's. The other 198 have bayliners and stingrays, but 'heard' that the SAN 210 is junk. And these are the people that are giving the advice?
|^^^ By the same token, Jerry. I'm not sure you are the most qualified to be defending the program. YOU HAVEN'T BEEN PAID YET! |
In fact, now that I think about it, the biggest honk for the program over on Team Talk is another guy who hasn't been paid yet.
I see why you are defending it, though. You have no choice but to believe at this point. You have faith. To think that it might not work for you is too hard to swallow. So you defend so as not to jinx it.
I mean this when I say it... I hope you get paid. I really do. I would love to believe that the program is legit. It just defies logic. This is why average Joes like me, who don't have a dog in the fight, feel compelled to speak out. It simply defies logic.
You gotta acknowledge that, right?
So you have not gotten the money back from CR
only applied for the reward? When you said "nothing out of pocket" that wasn't true.
You bashed the posts for not proving their comments with a bill of sale. Yet we are supposed to accept your words are true.
The fact is you don't know if your paper work is done correctly you only think it is just like [seth1776] thought his was. What I know of the CR program is first hand I almost bought a X15.
If the dealer would have included it in instead of trying to get a extra $3750 for CR maybe I would own a MC now. I'm glad you got a deal on your new boat as for CR Ill wait for your post in three years.
PS I bought a 08 210 SANTE and I to got a great deal without taking a chance on a program with a 13% chance of success if you need proof look me up on Planet Nautique [Nautiquehunter]
|Got crickets on the BBB report, everyone confident they'll get their money (return) back on this?|
|Clearly by Jerry's comments he's a content and happy buyer confident he will get his money, you can tell about how highly he talks of his wake enthusiast peers. |
I would venture a guess he walked in the showroom, signed, walked, then researched the program he signed up for, and found this post of people not spinning him some BS sales pitch.
By your reference of "chips" you willingly admit that it is a gamble to sign up for a program like this. Why gamble with thousands of dollars when in this economy the dealer would jump for joy for a sale @ .1% above invoice?
Take your condescending "can't afford, must own an I/O, MC elitist" garbage attitude and pound sand.
The moderator shut the thread down before the guy could have posted his receipt. He did not have a chance. The guy is still screaming on the other side of the door, I am sure. We just hear crickets only because MC shut the door on him.
|I would like to beat this dead horse some more. I think I can put this in laymen’s terms. |
FACT 1- The consumer pays for the Cash Rewards program. Sounds like some consumers and dealers deny this (it may not be listed on your sales invoice), but you are stupid if you think you are getting it for free. Many dealers will reduce the sales price if you do not want to participate. Cash Rewards will cost about $1500 per $10000 reward.
FACT 2- Some people get paid and some do not. Cash Rewards Inc had its BBB accreditation revoked because enough participants did not receive a “cash reward” when they felt they were entitled. When researching this program, I had difficulty finding any first hand reports from people who were paid. I did locate one or two posts from people who were paid, but an overwhelming amount of post were from people who were angry and felt cheated.
FACT 3- Cash Rewards says just because you are paid does not mean you will get the full amount. I have not read the fine print, but the payment is based on the amount of participants and payouts.
Conclusion- It’s a gamble. Some of us like to gamble and more power to you! If you think you are getting an MC X-Star for ($75,000-$25,000=$50,000) you are plain stupid!
So to answer the real question: In Vegas terms, what is Cash Rewards' house edge?
* House Edge as the ration of the average loss to initial bet.
Cash Rewards % ?
Blackjack % 0.51
Craps % 11.11
Quarter slots % 10.20
Roulette % 2.70
With the current economy and the chances of Cash Rewards filing bankruptcy, I rather spend my money in Vegas.
|The dealer told me up front you only have a 13-14% chance of receiving the reward. I cant imagine why any company would want to risk the relationship of previous customers on such a misleading program. At the boat show other manufactures had incentives and deep deals on leftover models. The same boat I almost bought in August was still available in January at the same price. The only incentive that was offered was the CR program. MC has a great product but their marketing stinks. I saved 10k plus just by not buying the MC now that is a Customer reward.|