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WakeWorld Discussion Board » >> Boats, Accessories & Tow Vehicles Archive » Archive through March 18, 2009 » Chaparral Xtremes vs. Inboard Tow Boats « Previous Next »
By Jack Robinson (dwatson12) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 8:33 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just found a thread on youtube about that new Chaparral Xtremes vs. the inboard tow boats. I do not know how to copy and paste the info. Just type in Chaparral Xtremes. They do a good job of comparing there boat up directly against a Malibu. Let me know what you guys think. I am pretty interested now in looking at this boat the L.A. Boat Show.
 
By Jon Allen (jon_a) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 8:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
No comparison. You can put antlers on a dog but in the end it's still a dog. Inboards are the only way to go for wake sports, especially when buying new.
 
By Kyle L (skier12) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 8:42 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I can't believe they show someone surfing behind their boat. That's incredibly dangerous.

The boat has it's place but a true tow boat it is NOT.

 
By Joe B (sailing216) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 8:45 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
They did the comparison in Boating mag. Chaparral, Malibu, and SeaDoo Jet.

Malibu won every category by far. Chaparral and SeaDoo were close on everything for second place. Chaparral is made much better than SeaDoo, but cheaper is cheaper in price too.

I see no benefit of the I/O. A SeaDoo can at least go in very shallow water and safety for kids. Bu is for tow sports. you can do a search for Boating mags comparison in the spring of 08'

 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 8:57 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I've always thought those were cool looking boats with some cool features and an I/O does have one advantage in backing up but ultimately for what we all do V drive all day.

Funny they show a chick coming out of the bathroom with a magazine, love it!

 
By J Wilson (illkid) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 9:16 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Links -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmeuLTqHa7k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0Y4QNN3pfY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqUUT1lTB80

 
By Kevin R Baugh (krbaugh) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 9:18 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
"I am pretty interested now in looking at this boat the L.A. Boat Show."

I guess you are Derek



Username: Dwatson12
Full Name: Jack Robinson
E-mail Address: derekw@suncountrymarine.com
Last Logged In: January 25, 2009
Registered: January 25, 2009
Total Posts: 1

http://www.suncountrymarine.com/staff.asp

 
By Brett Yates (polarbill) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 9:19 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Owned, get lost.
 
By Sean (slax303) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 9:24 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I will say that I came away pretty impressed from those videos. I still wouldnt get one over an inboard, but its a pretty nice boat. They push that it has better top end speed. Cool. Most people who are in it to wakeboard could care less about top end, and want something that will get out of the hole and onto plane quickly, even if its loaded up. I'd like to see how that 4300lb boat with a 300HP motor does when it has 6-8 people, gear, and ballast in there. I dont care what those people say, the Extreme is not the perfect wake out of the box. Ballast is always needed.

The Wake surfing was a pretty pathetic wake. It was just straight wash over, not to mention, isnt it illegal on an I/O?

Obviously some of it were some pretty pathetic marketing plugs. "Keep in mind that MOST of inboards are equipped with an 8.1 liter which makes the Chaparrals efficiency even more pronounced". I dont know about you, but we only sell a few 8.1s a year, yet sell countless 325-340s.

I didnt watch the 3rd video, but I doubt it went into resale value, because inboards win easily in that one too.

Lastly, we know you work at a Chaparral dealership. It's cool if you want to show this new boat. Its not a bad deal, and I'm sure there's more than a few people who end up buying these, but dont try and hide that you sell these by saying "I am pretty interested now in looking at this boat the L.A. Boat Show." People will immediately discredit you around here if you do. Go ask the wakecraft dealer in his thread.

Nice boats, not better than a Malibu (or most inboards for that matter)

 
By pete c (saceone) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 9:27 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
a big LOL @ the ''wakeboarders'' on that show... um I like the boat because I can back it up easily when I'm docking?? what kind of shredder is that!
 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 9:45 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you want to promote a product throw David Williams some money and ADVERTISE. You would get a much more positive response if you were up front with people. Just look at the recent wakecraft threads.
 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 9:52 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I love how the first video makes you think you're going to miss the top 5 mph. No I/O can handle like an inboard period.
 
By Brit Rider (brit_rider) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 9:55 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
What is it with fricken trolls on here these days? Seems like they're everywhere...
 
By parker james frost (waketowake) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:13 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Not a fan. it illegal to wakesurf behind an inboard/outboard in FL. But the 5 miles faster is really impressive
 
By Torrey Cazalas (tcaz) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:27 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dan Dulong?!
 
By Dennis (denwbaseball) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:34 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Looks like a nice boat but they go for 65-80k.....you can buy a real sick wakeboat for that.
 
By Gerald B. (ncboarderboy) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:35 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
wow wakesurfing behind an I/O. The only thing i have ever found that I/O have on inboards are thier backing ability. but seriosly who tries to do the slalom course backwards.
 
By J. Brenner (bjeremi) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 10:52 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
OWNED
 
By Bill K (bill_airjunky) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:03 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
You guys who think that I/Os like this Chaparral are unsafe are fooling yourself. It would be interesting to see how much different the placement of the prop is on these boats & any of our v-drives..... their not a lot different.
Upload

Other I/Os, yes, I'll give you that one. But these guys aren't making this boat & selling it to the surfers because it sucks. Go check one out & see for yourself. The duo-prop setup is badass. Very efficient & very powerful. The end result could very well be easier throttle control at surf speeds, better fuel economy, and the ability to raise your prop up if depth is a problem.

I haven't driven the Chaparral, and the first thing I notice is the rear seat look pretty cool for ballast & offering people a great view of the rider. I would imagine these boats would also handle rough water better than most v-drives. It would be interesting to see how well they respond to adding ballast.

All that said, I prefer my Vride better than most I/Os too. But I have an open enough mind that I'd check out a well designed I/O given the opportunity.

 
By Aaron Ware (99_slaunch) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:15 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^Is that a joke? The prop on my Supra is 1ft from the back of the hull and has the ruder in front of it for some protection. With the platform on the prop is 3 1/2 ft under the boat. That I/O is in the middle of the platform.
 
By MOX (uofamox) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:26 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
LMAO!

No comparsion about the wakes and expecially in the wakesurfing.

WHO NEEDS A LADDER ON THE BACK OF THE SWIM PLATFORM????

BTW I dont want my friends to be able to take a crap on my boat. What about the maintenance for that at the end of the day!

Dont get me wrong this boat has a place in the market but not the supreme wakeboard boat!

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:42 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok, here we go.
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload
Upload

To sit there and say that an I/O is more safe than an inboard is by for theeeee most absurd thing I have ever come across.

 
By Andy G. (ottog1979) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 11:58 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Another issue with the fixed/built-in swim step is it's part of the overall length of the boat. Taking the swim step off is a 2 minute snap & allows me to store the boat in my garage.

I'm with MOX - if you need a ladder to get up on board, maybe you shouldn't be trying to jump the wake 75' back (and I'm an old guy!).

 
By Aaron Ware (99_slaunch) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 12:03 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Andy
You look like your about 15 in your profile!

 
By Torrey Cazalas (tcaz) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 12:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hahaha. Thank you for the good laugh, Nick.

(Message edited by tcaz on January 25, 2009)

 
By nu bu (05mobiuslsv) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 12:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I would not call that chaperall safe at all, it's got nothing on an inboard.
 
By Rob (robandrus) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 1:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Most boats take some time to get figured out. If you've ever owned an I/O you know how nice the trim adujstment is on them. Malibu did just add a power wedge though. Same concept.

I've owned an I/O and my last 4 have been inboards. I go through a lot of boats and I'm getting frustrated by my inboards just cause I'm up to around 2k ballast in my maristar and I have yet to figure out the wake....That being said I haven't owned a nautique or a really highly recommended wake machine other than a MC 205....I had 1500 lbs in that and I was never really impressd with the wake and there was no more space left in the boat. So all I can say is I'm torn. I've ridden behind some nice boats...rode behind a brand new x star this last year and it was pretty nice. Last summer the X2 but was not impressed. I've owned a sunsetter, tristar, prostar and maristar and I haven't been impressed. My boat budget stays under 20k. So am I screwed for an inboard?

 
By Brett Yates (polarbill) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 1:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Rob, You need to get into a vdrive. If you are willing to travel to the bay area there are Sanger V210's all the time that are 15-25k. From what I have heard 1500-2000 pounds and you are set. A vdrive is really nice compared to a direct drive because you can hide most if not all the ballast in storage compartments.

What Maristar do you have currently?

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 1:32 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Under 20k and V-drive i would look for

MC 205V
Nautique Supersport
Sanger V215/V210
Moomba Mobius LSV/Outback V
Tige 21v/22v
Malibu Sunsetter VLX

 
By Rob (robandrus) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I just updated my profile pic of the boats I've owned. I have family in the Sacramento...I live in Utah but bought the 205 at Tahoe and the Malibu from Freemont. I need to sell the maristar first.....Its a 225vrs. Just a big wide boat with a rounded bottom.
Upload

 
By Jeff Chu (fossilfuelburner) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:14 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Gotta give Chaparral credit for doing a remarkable job in marketing. Targets first-time, inexperienced boat buyers and makes them feel the Xtreme is superior to inboards in every possible way. Simply not true.

The comparison when they reversed through a slalom course was hilarious. And the claim that inboards can only take 3 passengers with ballasts full was funny too.

(Message edited by fossilfuelburner on January 25, 2009)

 
By MOX (uofamox) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The only thing is the got right for a solid wakeboard boat is Wetsounds on the tower.
 
By Brett Yates (polarbill) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Rob, I wouldn't base your inboard wake opinion on an older 225 maristar. I have heard they do not throw a very good wake no matter what you do to them.
 
By Chqwakeboarder (chqwakeboarder) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Is it just me or is anyone else disgusted that Chaparral is marketing this boat to wakesurfers? I can't really imagine anything more irresponsible. I have personally seen loved-ones take bad falls while wakesurfing that would have killed them had we been behind an I/O. It seems to me that these guys are truly taking advantage of people that are uninformed in the sport (lets be honest, Chaparral will not attract any core riders). I can't see how I could sleep at night knowing that I put a young family in a position to hurt themselves while on the water.
 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:31 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
The only "innovative thing they did is take all the cool whistles and bells like the spinner board racks and a decent tower. I/O's track like garbage. I don't care about acceleration. I don't know any boarders who care how quickly the boat can get to 40+mph. I would never surf behind an I/O. The marketing is misleading at best.
 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:39 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Chapparral should be ashamed to have produced such an irresponsible video and released it. I can't imagine how wakesurfing behind this boat is in any way safe. You do not have to worry about moving people around plus you will have plenty of storage in the center locker for the missing body parts you gonna have to collect. Bonus. Not cool.
 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 2:42 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
My bad, yes I am disgusted Chqwakeboarder. You are right on homie.
 
By John Deacy (jaybee) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 3:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I seriously have been sitting here in the airport looking at this thread for 15 mins now debating on what I wanna say. My first thought was ahhahahaha another D-BAG dealer called out trying to be sneaky and then i got to the part where it was stated they are marketing to wakesurfers and now it's kinda CHAPARRAL NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN. SERIOUSLY. I really hope it does not take someone losing a leg much less there life for Chaparral to wisen up and realize their HUUUUUUUUGE mistake.
 
By TigeMike (chpthril) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 3:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
"I am pretty interested now in looking at this boat the L.A. Boat Show."

Why wait til the boat show, just look up from your computer and look at the one in your showroom as it looks like you are a Chaparral salesman for Sun Country Marine.

Now, for your question, Chap makes a great boat, but they are taking the wrong approach to this market by telling potential buyers that it is safe to surf behind, quite irresponsible if you ask me. Since you've been boating since you were 3, you should know this. Good luck at the LA boat show with your Chaparrals.

 
By bill montanye (bill) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 3:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nick those illustrations almost made me spit out my drink,funny stuff bro.the fact that you took all the time to research and then shop all that together is also funny stuff :-)

all true and good points though..

 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 4:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I did find the head funny. I am not a big fan of heads on wakeboats. I always have my friends help clean up the boat when we are done using it, could you imagine the fights over who was gonna clean out the crapper? The ladder on those boats are a must. Unlike wakeboats the swim decks sit up out of the water, it is obvious to us that we don't need ladders because our decks sit even or in many cases under water.
 
By malibu (malibuboats4) on Sunday, January 25, 2009 - 4:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
that was one uggggggly dash. i bet its a smooth ride though
 
By daniel (cowwboy) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 5:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I had A fun debate with the chapp dealer at our boat show. He kept saying you would hit the swim deck before the prop. It was fun watching his face turn red and get mad when I even stated how if it's so safe does florida make it illegal to surf behind i/o's??? He must have hated me cause I kept pointing out the huge con's to his boat compared to the bu sitting across the walkway from him.
 
By pete c (saceone) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 6:02 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^hahah good job.
the Montreal boat show is in 5 days and you can be sure that I'm gonna raid that chapp booth

 
By daniel (cowwboy) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 6:05 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I will say the funniest I saw was one of the toon companies had A tower with speakers on it and all. It looked clean for a toon but was funny how everyone is doing towers and nearly everyone is doing the wide front / pickle fork.
 
By donaldrhill (dh03r6) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 7:12 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Who wants to take one for the team and loose a hand so they can own chap?
 
By Todd (antoddio) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 7:19 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The Xtreme is a 70K MSRP boat, of course it is going to be really nice. The head and the wet bar really are the best feature, and make it worth looking at.
 
By J. Brenner (bjeremi) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 7:34 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
You can't put lipstick on a pig.
 
By pete c (saceone) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 8:00 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^ I disagree....you can put lipstick on a pig, but at the end of the day, you're still kissin' a pig.
as long as the buyer knows what he's getting into, it's allright...but telling people it's safe to surf 30'' from a crippling device...not cool.

 
By Mike Parker (roughrivermike) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 8:01 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'll bet "Derek" or "Jack" or "whatever his real name is" wishes he had not started this thread.
 
By Nacho (denverd1) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 9:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Upload
"Uhh... yea, I found this vid on youtube. But I can't copy and paste...."

 
By OnlyInboards.com (wakereviews) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 9:23 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
i couldn't even watch 3 minutes of that video. did he really say that technology hasn't changed in the inboard market since 1957? Please tell me he didn't say that.. did he? really?
 
By eric ivey (ericlee) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 9:48 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Well i just wasted 20 minutes of my employers time by reading this AWESOME thread. Thanks for the laughs on this cold Monday morning.
 
By mark (marknjenn) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 10:07 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Wasn't the guy in the vid selling Shamwows?
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 10:13 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
all the pro's in that video....career suicide
 
By David Curtis (davez71) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 11:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I wonder how much they paid all those pros to do that? The wake isn't even that big. I would take that Malibu any day of the week over Chaparral!!! The wakesurfing part is a complete joke along with the rest of the video.
 
By eric ivey (ericlee) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 11:21 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
All Chap needs now is Billy Mayes to be the spokesman. Billy Mayes here with a new revolution in wake sports. The all new Chap blah blah blah..3 easy payments of 20k and it too can be yours...Blah
 
By Scotty D (jinxton) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 12:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I didn't know Justin Timberlake made the jump to product endorsement. I was waiting for the rest of the back street boys to jump in the boat and start signing the new chaparral theme song!

What a waste of 8 minutes of my life.

 
By A-dub (behindtheboat) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 12:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
has no one emailed this guy asking for more info?
 
By Duffy Mahoney (duffymahoney) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 1:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I think the wakeboard wake looks great, but wakesufing sounds like a terrible idea. It might be safer than a normal IO, but still very very scary. Also the sun pad on V-drives is a great feature, mine gets used more than any other area. I can hold onto my swim deck and my feet can't touch my V-drive prop. Someone going to be stupid and surf behind this boat, and they are going to loose an arm or something and they are going to get sued!
 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 1:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Is that a Soven in the 2nd vid?
 
By Greg Taylor (gregtay) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 1:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
For anyone who states "you will hit the swim platform before you hit the prop" on a v-drive... go ride behind one. When the boat is moving you will see the prop just under the surface of the water... and there is nothing but air under that swim platform and the bottom of the deep-v hull. IF you fall you are going under the swim platform and into the transom... if you hit the transom... well... you have already passed the twin spinning props (I had a 25' Crownline with a Bravo III drive... very similar to the Chap... there is NO WAY i would surf behind it... i wanted to surf... wanted to convince myself it was safe, but it didn't take much thinking to see that it would be a very very dumb thing to do.)
 
By cosmocat (treycleaton) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
fail
 
By lowend (lowend) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
hahahahaha
This stuff cracks me up.

 
By Ken W (kenteck) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:22 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just sounds like someone else trying to cash in on the wakeboard thing, put a tower on it and now itís a remarkable wakeboard boat. I owned a I/O boat and I will never go back after owning a V-drive, as far as the salesman that works there and posting something like that and didnít think anyone would find out, has to be one stupid idiot.
 
By Greg Taylor (gregtay) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
opps.. in my previous post i mis-typed.. meant "For anyone who states "you will hit the swim platform before you hit the prop" on a STERNDRIVE or I/O

Obviously on a v-drive you hit the swimplatform or the transom.. but no prop.

(Message edited by gregtay on January 26, 2009)

 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I love how they claim to be innovators and are what... 6 years behind MC and the pickleforks. idiots.
 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I see the future: The Chaparral Pro Wakeboard Tour. I don't know how much weight they run on the other tours, but in the PWT they are running like 4K lbs in that monster. I wonder how well the Chap would handle or accelerate with even half that on board. I noticed they bashed the HP ratings compared to the weights of the boats...they failed to mention that the inboard tow boat motors are engineered to provide more torque.

Would it change everyone's mind if Chap did end up sponsoring the WWC or PWT? I can see it happening one day. It is obvious that they are willing to spend lots of money to get into this market. This is witnessed by hiring pro athletes and developing a marketing strategy.

I have heard that the inboard market is something like 10K boats a year, and I would guess that these numbers are down in our current economy. To me that seems like a pretty small number to have a pleasure boat company trying to jump into and call all the top dogs in that market segment outdated.

 
By Ridersdad (ridersdad) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Anybody in New England that wants to look at the Chaparral compared to an inboard, stop by the Mastercraft Booth at the New England Boat Show. Chaparral is across the aisle from us.
 
By freshtracks (freshtracks) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 3:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
a friend of mine has a chapparal and it is a great boat for cruising, partying, and lounging on. a premier wakeboarding boat it is NOT.

looks like im gonna have to punk derek at the LA boat show........

 
By Chris H. (04gravitygames) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 3:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
70k hell no. there is a dealer near me and i was in with a friend looking at a fishing boat. sharp boat but for 70k. noooo way
 
By Keith (tversetti) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 5:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Upload

made for an old thread about this :-)

 
By Tyler Lindsay (tx03gt) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 5:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Come on guys. You cant tell me when you test drove your inboard you didn't drive the slalom course in reverse.
 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 6:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
That inboard WAS COMPLETELY OFF COURSE!!! I wonder what the world slalom record is in reverse? As a side note anyone that poos on my boat is banned forever.
 
By Art (rallyart) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 6:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I can drive mine through a slalom in reverse. It's a lot of work and I do admit that my I/O was better at it. I can parallel park my inboard at the floating store easier than with my I/O and that's something I do more often.
I don't have a problem with Chaparral advertising to a wake crowd. I do have a problem with some of the dissembling of information that goes with there promotions.

I like your comment Ridersdad.

 
By Dennis (denwbaseball) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 7:13 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I did the slalom course in reverse in my Supra this in in 10.45sec! Its a world record! Seriously

And its way cooler to back your boat onto the trailer!

 
By Luker (xbones) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 6:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nothing else to say:
Upload

 
By daniel (cowwboy) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 7:08 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hey luker if they made it just a tad larger it could be used as a "stabin cabin" lol Just take out porta john put in some mood lights a condom dispenser and there ya go.
 
By Dennis (denwbaseball) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 7:18 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Man that thing has to be a gas chamber! I couldn't imagine my buddies going in there and doing work!
 
By prostar205v (prostar205v) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 7:28 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Donnie Covington is a past MC Rep.

I can't believe that they are endorsing multiple times wakesurfing. I haved owned inboards and now have a Cobalt. I would NEVER consider letting our son attempt wakesurfing.

I have owned both Inboards and I/O's, they both have their advantages. To ski or board...inboard.
Boat in rough water....I/O.

Anyone get the idea that one of these days this video is going to make some attorney's VERY happy?

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 7:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
yeah, it sure will ^^

I may get a suit of armor and give it a whirl...

 
By Michael Hunter (mhunter) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 8:30 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
If you swivel the seat to face the rear do you get locked in the head? Anyone seen Suzie?
 
By Brock Landers (formfunction) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 8:44 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
They have a disclaimer at the begining that say's surfing and boarding are dangerous and should not take place behind the boat.That pretty much resolves them of any wrong doing.
So what there saying is that they know its wrong but do it anyway with no regard for the safety of the ignorant people there advertising too.
Criminal if you ask me.

PS(crack is bad for you but its safe to smoke it and it taste good)

 
By Brit Rider (brit_rider) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 9:38 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
No one gotten in tuch with chaparral direct yet to give them a heads up? seems like its only fair for them to come on here and give their point of view.

At the end of the say, they may learn something, so may we, and it would clear up any confusion going down here.

 
By daniel (cowwboy) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 10:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
What all states make it illegal to surf behind an i/o? To be honest I haven't seen any laws directed at the sport of surfering specific.
 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 11:06 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I know in Utah you are technically breaking the law because when you are within a specific distance of someone in the water you have to be at wakeless. I don't think they enforce it though.
 
By Ron Zapisocki (zap) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 11:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
All I know is last summer I accelerated down the wake and back up to try an air, when I fell off of the surfboard, my foot went under the platform and I kicked the back of the transom.
People seem to think that you canít hit the back of the boat unless it stalls, it is not the case

 
By AtTheLake (bmartin) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 11:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Hitting a big land gap or grinding a dock or a rail in 18 inches of water without a helmet is Bad A, but surfing behind this is too dangerous???? A person that knows how to surf well would have a very low probability of mixing up their appendages with the prop, probably lower probability of getting jacked up than some of the crazy stuff done on solid objects posted here. I think both are too dangerous for me or my kids, but see a bit of irony on what is considered 'stupid' risky.

(Message edited by bmartin on January 27, 2009)

 
By Paul (psudy) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Do you really think people that know how to surf well will be in the market for an IO?

See the post above yours. You crash a WB in 8 in of water, there is not a sharp metal thing spinning around under you that could take your leg or life. Thats a bad comparison.

 
By AtTheLake (bmartin) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I din't compare it to wake riding in 8' of water which I do think is safer.

No I do not think core wakesurfers are considering this boat, just pointing a bit of irony on how risks are viewed.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:15 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
That is the problem, the people who would buy this are Warriors... that means there is a lot higher chance of them getting into a bad situation and getting chopped up.
 
By Andy G. (ottog1979) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Having had a very close call experience with this, I'm not willing to work off of just a "low probability" when it comes to mixing appendages with propellers.
 
By Nacho (denverd1) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:28 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
"They have a disclaimer at the begining that say's surfing and boarding are dangerous and should not take place behind the boat.That pretty much resolves them of any wrong doing.
So what there saying is that they know its wrong but do it anyway with no regard for the safety of the ignorant people there advertising too.
Criminal if you ask me.

PS(crack is bad for you but its safe to smoke it and it taste good)"


That disclaimer wouldn't hold up if it came down to it.

And Brit Rider, they know that the boat isn't safe, hence the disclaimer. Poor marketing of a poor product. and I'm sure they're reading this...

 
By rzap (zap) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
You nailed it Andy, for the longest time in the back of my mind I always thought I/O's were a "low probability" unless the boat stalled .... until I touched the transom on my inboard. It scared me so bad that I was going to stop any surfing behind my inboard. It wasn't until I hung from the platform and tried to get past the rudder and touch the prop with my foot before I would surf again.

We need to remember that as you progress from just cruising to trying tricks you need to accelerate towards the boat... and anything can happen.

 
By Rob.B (rbeckei) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:35 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
someone last year posted a picture of a persons arm that got caught up in the prop while they were wakesurfing. If YOU have the picture, posted it and I think it would explain everything.
 
By Torrey Cazalas (tcaz) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 12:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
If I remember correctly, I believe that photo is an accident from working with heavy machinery, not wakesurfing. Although, if the prop doesn't take off your hand, I imagine the damage done would resemble that of the picture's or worse. That photo is more disgusting than the one recently posted in "Non-wakeboarding Discussion" of a guy's bloody shin popping out his skin.
 
By Andy G. (ottog1979) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 1:08 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
When it comes down to it, I really don't know. But, I'm pretty sure the propeller did this:
Upload

And the i/o drive unit did this:
Upload

I got as lucky as you're ever going to get. You couldn't even tell by looking at me today but I was within a nat's hair of loosing an appendage or worse. That's as closer than I ever want to get again.

I consider it a "mulligan" on at least one of my 9 lives. Got a few left and planning on keeping them.

 
By GThomas (socalsurf) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 1:40 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Remember guys, Chaparral's Marketing Department and R&D are two different depts.
I agree 100% that the video is ridiculous in showing wakesurfing, but to call it a poor product is ignorant. I bought my current boat, a 08 Sanger V-215 after trading in my 2002 Chaparral. My dealer is both a Sanger and a Chaparral dealer, so when I bought my Sanger, I did test drive the Xtreme also, and honestly....it was SICK, but I too have kids that are more into wakesurfing, and the Sanger was a better choice for us. (although when driving across Lake Powell this summer, I did miss it!) As far as quality though, you really won't find a better built boat than a Chaparral. My $.02!
}

 
By VLX Envy (cavlxenvy) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 1:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
"By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Monday, January 26, 2009 - 2:35 pm: Edit Post Delete Post
I love how they claim to be innovators and are what... 6 years behind MC and the pickleforks. idiots."


No offense but was this quote serious? I could not detect sarcasm here. MC did not start pickleforks. They just made them cool. pretty sure Chaparral was one of the first to put a pickle on more conventional boats and pickleforks have been popular on jet boats for years.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 2:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
99% sure VLX is right on that....

Socalsurf, agreed... I don't think the company intended years ago for people to be surfing behind them... As far as I can dell they are the "mastercraft" of I/o's..... top notch quality, and great at what they do.

The marketing guys are foolish

 
By Michael Hunter (mhunter) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 2:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I used to have a 78 Invader tri hull I think it was the first pickle fork boat. I did check out the Xtreme st the boat show (Gthomas)is right the
quality is outstanding. Cobalt also makes a simalar boat. The bottom line is they are great runabouts but for pulling DD or Vdrive is the only way to go .

 
By VLX Envy (cavlxenvy) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 3:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ Cobalt. Maybe that was the one I was thinking of. Thanks Mike. Well I know it was one of those two.
 
By lifetimewarranty (lifetimewarranty) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 3:20 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sanger has had V-drive and pickle fork boats since the early 70's - at least.

Of course, the forked front end was for stability, not to seat 6 comfortably...

 
By Jos (jtnz) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 3:48 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Most inboards have an 8.1 in them? Haha what a joke.

That logo looks familiar too, kinda like they ripped off Malibu and slapped a dirty red X on top.

(Message edited by jtnz on January 27, 2009)

 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 3:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have at least 20 friends that own their own boats and none of them have a 8.1L in them.
 
By GThomas (socalsurf) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 4:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
According to their website, they only offer the 8.1 in the 26' and 28'. The 22' and 24' come with a 5.7 320hp. I drove the 24 and it ran great.....but the wake for surfing was no bueno.
 
By chris (rio_sanger) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 4:50 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Here you go lifetime,
1977 Sanger V-Drive picklefork.
Upload
Upload
}

 
By daniel (cowwboy) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 4:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Chris thats a beautiful boat. What river in ok was that? I know it's not anywhere near okc thats for sure.
 
By lifetimewarranty (lifetimewarranty) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 5:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
badd ass.
 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Tuesday, January 27, 2009 - 5:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I was referring to how MC showed the merits of the tri-hull/picklefork was good for tow sports. In the video they made it sound like Chaparral had invented the bow ladder.
 
By Dom W. Forte (fic) on Wednesday, January 28, 2009 - 3:52 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
On that same note MC acts like they invented the pickle fork which in reality was out in the 60s long before MC exsisted , and then was reintroduced by Cobalt before MC. Kind of like the chicken and the egg, which came first?
 
By Bubba Faceplant (planting_faces) on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 2:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have been lurking for a long time but I registered just to post to this thread.

The guy that started this thread using an alias and a lie is a real piece of work. He has the audacity to come on here pretending to be a potential boat buyer when in fact he is a boat salesman trying to promote some imitation wakeboard boat.

Hey buddy, why don't you pay for advertising like any other reputable business. If you look at the top of the page you will see advertising from businesses that advertise the right way.

I don't know Dave Williams but I am sure that this site costs money and time to run. For you to abuse this site by sneaky advertising is like stealing. The owner of this site should be compensated for advertising. Losers like this Derek Watson obviously lack any form of integrity. I hope he never sells another boat.

Sorry for the rant but I am just sick and tired of seeing other people take advantage and trying to get something for free.

So Derek, did you get what you didn't pay for?

 
By Andy G. (ottog1979) on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 2:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I'd venture to say that this thread worked the opposite than intended.
 
By gangstar (joe_crawley) on Thursday, January 29, 2009 - 6:58 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
one of the best threads in a while, owned. At least it's freaking xtreme, that should sell a bunch of them
 
By pete c (saceone) on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 12:28 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
8 hrs 'till I storm the chapp booth...
 
By Dennis (denwbaseball) on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 6:07 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
RED TEAM GO! RED TEAM GO!
 
By Michael Hunter (mhunter) on Friday, January 30, 2009 - 6:28 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
After reading this thread it has been very entertaining. Especially the posts about the on board head. If the purpose of the thread was to attract attention it succeeded. Unfortunately
it has spotlighted the dangers and shortcomings
of the boat. Same thread on a IO forum mite have been more successful. Still the wakesurfing is illresponsible. People that own inboards don't buy IOs why go backwards?

(Message edited by mhunter on January 30, 2009)

 
By Kyle L (skier12) on Sunday, February 01, 2009 - 8:09 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I really believe Chapparal will have a law suit on it's hands the moment someone is hurt surfing behind this boat and rightfully so.

Does anyone have a link or reference to the claim that surfing behind an I/O is illegal in FL or any other state?

 
By David "Pootie Tang" (colombiansurfer) on Sunday, February 01, 2009 - 11:59 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
OMG! Those vids are soooo full of crap! Wakesurfing??? Right! If you want to end up like hamburger. The kicker was the chick coming from the head with a mag. I busted out laughing when I saw that! I would never surf or let my friends surf behind that thing! And if someone catches me trying beat my @$$ for being stupid!
 
By Bob Holloway (kid_yacht) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 2:21 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I feel the need to chime in here.
I want to make perfectly clear that I sell Chaparral boats.
I also have been fairly well recieved as a sales person for Malibu, MasterCraft, Nautique, and (most recently) Supra and Moomba. Over the past 15 years, I have sold thousands of tow boats.
I have been impressed with the Sunesta Xtreme. It has a pretty darn good wake for what it is.
And to be honest, the majority of users on this website are not the target market for this boat.
What Chaparral has done over the past 5 years is to be innovative. They have introduced new and exciting style and technology to an industry that has become increasingly redundant.
Is the pickle fork new, of course not. But adding a pickle fork to the bow of a v bottom runabout,breaking said sponson off and back into the hull prior to the sponson reaching the running surface...that is innovative.
Anyone can add a wakeboard tower to a boat...that in itself doesn't make said boat a wakeboard boat.
I think Chaparral deserves some credit for taking the next step. By adding the style, perfect pass, ballast, and trim tabs (to help shape the wake and overcome the reverse chine that runabouts employ for better lift and ride) and give some pop to the wake.
As for the video, it does have an slight air of propoganda....but it also has some truths.
For the most part, storage is lacking in wake boats. There are a good number of wakeboard boats that have little to no ability to store a wakeboard with bindings, let alone securely.
In my opinion, the target market for this boat is the buyer who sped out and bought a true wake boat mostly becuase it wake boarded well.
Folks rushed out and boat a boat that didn't offer the stroage that they really wanted....a boat that didn't ride particularly well...that doesn't have the features that a family may actually require.
To be sure, a hardcore wakeboarder is highly unlikely to buy a Chaparral Xtreme.
A guy who bought a wakeboat only to find that it doesn't do many of the things that he wants or needs his boat to do is.
I have to tell you, I have owned a bunch of tow boats. My kids are mostly to the age where they do their own deal. Having a great riding, and great performing boat is more important to me now.
Its a great bonus that when the kids stop by, they can get a pretty good pull behind the boat that my wife and I love to own!
Isn't that really what is important? Regardless of what boat you like or own?

(Message edited by kid_yacht on February 10, 2009)

 
By David B. (dabell) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 2:26 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^ Yes, but saying that you can wakesurf behind that boat is just wrong! Sorry, but the company is asking for lawsuit after lawsuit with that one.
 
By Bob Holloway (kid_yacht) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 2:41 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I have wakesurfed behind the boat...so I myself can say that you can wakesurf behind a 244 Xtreme.
There is inherent danger in any type of outdoor sports. It is possible to burn your lips on hot coffee.
I think that if you actually measured the furthest most point on the rear platform to the highest prop surface, there is a VERY small difference between the 244 and a comparable tow boat.
Showing a picture of a Stingray boat (a boat who's design puts the drive very far outboard) with no platform is generalizing sterndrive boats.
Also showing a picture of the drive up and props at their highest point is misleading.
Chaparral employs an extended V Plane hull, which puts the actual power plant forward of the rear transom significantly over other sterndrive boats.
I think we all have to admit that any object going forward in the water is difficult. (unless it has a motor bolted to it) And the closer to the propulsion, the more difficult it becomes.
Wakesurfing as a whole has its dangers, but to make it sound like suicide to attempt wakesurfing is irresponsible as well.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 2:52 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^ saying what you are saying is just irresponsible. Selling a boat to someone by "tricking" them of what it can do commpared to what it should do is terrible... but then again I wouldn't expect much more from someone who has surfed behind an I/O.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the boat is a great boat, but it should NOT be used to surf with.

Upload

 
By train (ttrigo) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 3:11 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I just found this thread. my good friend is the GM at Sun Country. I CAN NOT WAIT to talk to him about this. poor bastard has no idea the pain I am going to bring him because of this. this totally made my week.
 
By Bob Holloway (kid_yacht) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 3:17 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ignoring the grammar, and the weak stab at my character....I am curious where your measurements come from.
And which inboard has a cage?
I will give you style points for the excellent illustration though!

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 3:18 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
and i know my picture has poor grammar.

(Message edited by sidekicknicholas on February 10, 2009)

 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 3:46 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bob,

If you sell this boat to be wakesurfed behind, I hope you sleep well at night. I wouldn't be able to.

 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 3:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Inboard cage = Rudder + fiberglass + Teak -- if you can manage to get through all those and hit the prop, bravo... you're unlucky

I/O = maybe part of a swim platform -- if you can get to the prop, good, you're not completely retarded and have eyes.

Surfing an I/O is an instant darwin award

 
By Josh B (joshugan) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 5:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^^Agreed!
 
By J. Brenner (bjeremi) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 5:38 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bob your failing. You talk about misleading images and the Sunsetta adds are nothing but misleading. Look at the platform they show for the inboard in the image in Keith's post. Go check out a platform on today's wake boats and see if they are that cramped. Then you talk about generalizing I/O's, is not that exactly what chaparral did with towboats? You gotta just stick to exactly what the chaperral is better for and that is taking the mother-inlaw out on. That is it though. In pretty much every other way it fails.
 
By Fro-Z (froese) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 6:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
wow. bob.

so you really don't get that an inboard prop is in FRONT of the RUDDER which is in FRONT of the TRANSOM which means it's placement is UNDERNEATH the HULL????

do you really not understand that a surf board can slip forward while riding at 10mph and hit the BACK OF THE DAMNED TRANSOM??? If it happens on my boat, who cares - i didn't come close to the prop. If it happens on yours, you just rode the board OVER A SPINNING PROP.

I don't care one bit about marketing a runabout to the so-called 'extreme' market. go for it. they won't be on the water when I am at sunrise.

but to think that you are safe surfing behind an I/O is stupid. so be it. to each his own stupid self. however, to market and sell that boat to the person who doesn't have a clue is sick. i hope selling these boats comforts you when the first family accident happens.

 
By RJ (wakedv) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 6:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bob, Bob, come on man, are really drinking the purple koolaid, I/O's ARE NOT FOR SURFING. To say otherwise is bordering on ........ well I don't want to take a stab at your character!
 
By Trevor Gleadhill (trevorg7) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 6:58 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Let me say first that it would be very irresponsible to surf behind an I/O. I also know it is a leap that I believe people should be responsible and accountable for their actions therefore I don't have a problem if a promo says surf behind it. E.G. would you jump off a bridge if someone told you to? Again responsibility and common sense go a long way.

That said I've looked at this boat and for what it is it is a great set up for the non-hardcore wakeboard. Personally - family of 4 - I usually spend 4 hours boarding in the morning, couple hours tubing, and hours anchored in the cover swimming and relaxing. So for 'water sports' this boat is a great set up; size, storage, swim deck, etc. Price aside, I'd buy one. Again, I am not the hardcore wakeboarder as we have to much baseball, soccer, golf, skiing, snowboarding, motocross, volleyball, and oh yeah work to really focus on.

I appreciate that many on this board have the passion to defend the 'classic/hardcore' nature of wakeboarding (read to include wakesurf too) and wakeboard only crowd but I am astonished at how indignant some are toward a boat and change.

T

 
By Nick Warhol (nwarhol1105) on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 - 7:10 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nick, your picture is priceless.

Bob said, "I also have been fairly well recieved as a sales person for Malibu, MasterCraft, Nautique, and (most recently) Supra and Moomba. Over the past 15 years, I have sold thousands of tow boats."

Bob- Not being able to put two and two together with a simple illustration ABOUT BOATS YOU HAVE SOLD, makes me wonder how you have been selling boats successfully for over 15 years. I thought this whole discussion was common sense...I guess not.

 
By Bob Holloway (kid_yacht) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 8:07 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ok, Ok....I give.

I agree that wake surfing behind a sterndrive is not as safe as an inboard.

I think that you are missing the message on the platform illustration. The Sunesta utilizes a rear facing seat, making better use of the swim platform. Its' lower proximity to the platform makes for a more user friendly use of space.

Like I said, this boat isn't specific for hard core riders. It is, however, much more than a runabout with a tower.

As for the price, there are numerous reasons why a Chaparral is priced the way it is. And they do bring a level of quality that most other manufacturers' do not.

 
By Shaun Brinkle (highrock) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 8:17 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I checked out an extreme at the boat show this past weekend. If you really are buying that to wakeboard you are an idiot. Crusing around trying to look cool maybe, but thats not a good boat for wakeboarding and especially for surfing.

You have to be an idiot to think a I/O is safer, surfing behind that you are just asking for something to be chopped off.

 
By Fro-Z (froese) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 8:23 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bob says: "I agree that wake surfing behind a sterndrive is not as safe as an inboard."

No, you don't get it. Wakesurfing behind an I/O is stupid. Other than that, I don't think any of us care how the boat is marketed and what it is/does.

 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 8:31 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Its made of Kevlar and ...its got bits of real panther in it; so you know its good...
 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 8:43 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
HAHA, Dave that made me laugh!

The Xtreme throws a big wake 60% of the time; everytime.

 
By Craig Cox (wakedoctor) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 8:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
"Also showing a picture of the drive up and props at their highest point is misleading."

Say I was one of the many customers looking for a wakeboat/surfboat and was mislead by the advertisements that over state what this boat really is. I would probably also try trimming up the motor a couple of degrees to produce a bigger wave. Anyone who has driven an inboard knows that this makes the wake bigger.

 
By Jay T. (wakebrdjay) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:15 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
For those with FreshAirExhaust,you also have it blocking you from the prop.
 
By Steve Bates (steve_b) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:23 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I don't know how I would pass the winter months without threads like this.

Thank you Dave Williams.

 
By Elizabeth (lizzyb) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I agree, I just killed a ton of time on this thread. Thanks!
 
By Bob Holloway (kid_yacht) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:51 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Can someone explain to me how looking at a boat at a boat show is the ultimate approval for a boats wake boarding ability?
Just curious.

 
By rG (canecorso) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 10:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
How much do one of these chaparral xxtremes cost? Why doesnt chapstick just make an inboard & trash the I/O?

Bob since your a die hard chap guy, but know alot about inboards you should update your chap ceo's on all your experience with inboards, maybe they'd get it!

 
By anthonyv911 (tonyv420) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:11 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
No I/O handles like a inboard, IMO. But please do not surf behind any I/0 thats just plain stupid. Nice that they want to target wakeboarders, but I am sure the cost is comparable to an entry level V-Drive. Most everyone I know would rather buy a tow boat if their finances permit it. I am sure it is a nice boat, but not for the same price as a V-Drive.
 
By Bob Holloway (kid_yacht) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:32 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Honestly, Chaparral relied very heavily on advice and suggestions from many people in their dealer and manufacturing population to form this new series of boats. People who have a very long history of success in tow boats.
224 Xtremes can be bought in the mid to low 60's. That isn't at all out of line for 20' wakeboats of high quality.
And as a sales person for many years, the question has come up a lot about why wakeboard boats don't have a head. Most are equipped with a pump out porta potti or a vacu-flush head, so cleanup is done at a marina with a pump out.
Guys, I understand as well as any the dedication to this sport and its hardware. Because someone has a new idea or someone else considers buying it...that alone doesn't constitute these folks being "idiots".

 
By Art (rallyart) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 11:56 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Bob, I've commented on Chaparral being good boats. My wife would be really happy if our boat had a head but I don't know if we'd give up storage to get it. Maybe.
The part that irks me is the specific way that this particular campaign is misdirecting information. It's philosophy doesn't speak well of the company. To claim that your boat has great features is one thing. To claim that inboard marketing is a sham is something quite different.

And, since no one has done it yet... Welcome to WakeWorld. We actually are glad you're here.

 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 12:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I think Chapparal's are good cruisers, they aren't core wakeboard/surf boats. There are several items that are misleading. I wouldn't want a head, and the headaches that those involve. Handling is inferior (except in reverse) wake is inferior, this is just a theory and it may not be true but doesn't the fact that gases are added to the wake make it bigger but softer, (like a jet-puffed marshmallow)
 
By Shaun Brinkle (highrock) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 4:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Idiots might be too much. Just mislead from all the false information in the ad and im sure the false info the dealers are throwing out there.

For 60 Thousand you can a Nautique or Malibu

Is Bob Soven riding for them????

 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 - 5:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
no Bob Soven got 6K to hang out during that commercial for 1 hr. He rides for Nautique. Phillip his older brother just saw the ad at the dallas boat show and called his brother to give him grief about it.
 
By Dom W. Forte (fic) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 3:50 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I dont care what Chaparral promises , there is just on comparison to an inboard for ease of coming out of the water for a rider to maintaining that speed, even without PP, the fuel usage of an IO is not even close, by comparison, and the maintenance is lot higher .
I will wait to see the results of a wake test , because Im willing to bet that will be no comparison either,and Im not talking about how big the wake is, Im talking about shape. There has yet to be an IO that comes close to the performance of the lowest price entry level Inboard , so why pay that amount of money for a Chapararral.

 
By Ken Toby (towboat_222) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 8:25 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Im a Sea Ray and Centurion dealer. Iv got both sides of the debate. Sea Ray builds a Fussion boat wake tower smart tow everything a wake board boat has set back drive under platform. Anyone that sells or even hints a outdrive boat as a surf boat should be shot on the spot. I surf alot Iv smacked the back of the boat before. Thank God for Vdrive. The trouble I see is missed informed customers. Alot of people are just now seeing surfing and have no ideal the danger involved. It is the job of manufactures and salesman to keep are sport safe. MY .02
 
By John Deacy (jaybee) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 8:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Can't be mad at Bob Soven for making 6k in a hour!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
By Fro-Z (froese) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 8:49 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Ken - THANK YOU for showing us that there is reason out there. We all have our beef with certain things, but I really don't think this group cares too much about who buys what. Chapparal has done a great job marketing - good job, power to 'em. I could care less who buys what and how good the wake is or if it is a jet ski or tuber. So be it, we all share the same lake (oh, and fisher peoples )

But don't market this boat as a surf boat. Thankfully there are reasonable dealers out there that aren't solely caught up in making a buck. Educate your buyers, tell them they could lose a hand or a face if they so much as think about surfing behind this boat and then tell them to go have fun wakeboarding and doing whatever with their purchase.

 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 9:12 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I made a mistake and transposed those numbers. 1K for 6 hours. Stupid dyslexia.
I would tell you I prefer a head to regular plumbing for that kind of money!!!

 
By rick (justcoz5) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 10:11 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The only problem I have with that whole promotion video is the wakesurfing. Those videos totally reminds me of a late night infomercial, where there is no unbiased research in regards to testing the two boats, but heck that is the way they choose to market it and it is their choice to do so. Personally I would never buy that boat but to each his own.

I would say this though, I can tell you that I will never buy a Chapparal, not that I ever would, but I would go so far as to say that I will tell everyone that I know never to even think about buying a Chapparal or any Chapparal product. The reason being that they would promote that as wakesurfing boat. What they should have said, if they wanted that infomercial to look more credible, is that the one area that inboard boats beat the Chap is in the area of wakesurfing. They should then have warned that nobody should ever surf behind and I/O even though this particular boat has a swim step that looks like it covers the prop. A company that markets a dangerous activity like that as if it were safe is totally unethical. It reminds me of when cigarette companies used to fight that smoking isn't bad for you and doesn't lead to cancer.

Something tells me the Chap will end up getting sued. Someone will get hurt or killed wakesurfing behind that boat, and all a lawyer is going to need to do is show that nice infomercial in court. And that message before that the whole thing will not hold up. It kind of sounds like a bait and switch.

A 20 minute video promoting all this cool/fun stuff you can do behind this boat preceded by a 10 second flash on the screen saying that you shouldn't do these things because they are dangerous. Hey look at all this fun stuff you can do behind this $60k boat, come buy our boat but you shouldn't do any of this fun stuff we just showed you.

 
By bc canuck (abc33660) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 12:59 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Chapparal can advertising what ever they want but my big fear here is that someone will get hurt wakesurfing behind an I/O and it will then be outlawed by the government.

We have already come close to having it outlawed due to carbon monoxide issues. What if someone die or is seriously injured by hitting the prop.

Most legislators will not spend the time to differentiate between an I/O and an inboard, they will just ban it period.

I disagree with Bob's assessment that "Because someone has a new idea or someone else considers buying it...that alone doesn't constitute these folks being "idiots"." If you are going to wakesurf behind an I/O you are an idiot. For you to misrepresent this to potential boaters who may not know any different is just plan wrong as you know better.

I have owned both an I/O and now a direct drive. I know that my kids and their friends do not use one tenth of the capability of the direct drive. We would do just fine by putting a tower on my old I/O.

I have no problems with Chapparal going after the wakeboard segment its about time. I believe that increased competition will improve everyone.

I am just against the implication that one can safely wakesurf behind an I/O. I am afraid that this will cause the sport to be banned for everyone.

 
By Matt Reed (wackbag) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 2:47 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
"Can't be mad at Bob Soven for making 6k in a hour!!!!!!!!!!!!"


No but I bet Correct Craft is...

 
By Tim (the_duke) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 4:58 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Problem solved, Wakesurfing options for IO's

Upload
Upload
Upload

Just for the record, I've seen Wakeboard Magazine and Alliance Magazine publish pictures of both amateurs and pro wakeboarders doing thing ALLOT more dangerous and irresponsible than wake surfing behind an IO. Whereís all the public outrage towards them? Beside I thought wake sports were considered EXTREME sports.

This has nothing to do with if I personally believe people should be wake surfing behind IOís. I just find it funny that most of you have double standards when it come to companies or brands. Just my two cents.

OH and by the way, I do work for an inboard boat company.

 
By Mike (ponyh8r) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 5:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tim,

Problem not solved, it is still illegal in many states. Regardless if you have some chicken wire around the prop or not.

 
By Dave (davomaddo) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 5:23 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just for the record - I have surfed behind I/O and straight up Out Boards. It pretty much sucks - but I have the skills to not hit the prop.

Some times you don't have an inboard boatand you want to surf.

It is sort of 3rd world style - like riding a motorcross bike in Mexico with no helmet during busy traffic, riding in the back of a pickup truck with 10 other dudes on a dirt road in Coasta Rica, eating hot dogs from a street vendor in Tijuana, etc.

Selling an I/O as a surf boat is stupid/not right.

An excellent wake surfer riding behind an I/O - is sketchy - but not stupid. IMO

 
By Craig Cox (wakedoctor) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 6:07 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
"Just for the record, I've seen Wakeboard Magazine and Alliance Magazine publish pictures of both amateurs and pro wakeboarders doing thing A LOT more dangerous and irresponsible than wake surfing behind an IO. Whereís all the public outrage towards them? Beside I thought wake sports were considered EXTREME sports."

We are not talking about what the Pros do. We are talking about what this company is advertising it ok to do, and arms and legs do not grow back. Try and keep up next time.

 
By DeltaGlassSeeker (bftskir) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 7:57 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
its got bits of real panther in it




hilarious!

 
By Don Kiserow (trdon) on Thursday, February 12, 2009 - 9:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Dave, if you think an accident cant happen to you because you are just too good, you have got another thing coming. That is about the most foolish thing I have read so far in this thread.
 
By Tim (the_duke) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 10:37 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
(Problem not solved, it is still illegal in many states. Regardless if you have some chicken wire around the prop or not.)

Mike, I wasnít away that any state laws made a distinction between IOís and inboards. If so, that would certainly make a difference. Can you supply us with which states and where we can find a copy of the laws. The inboard boat companies could sure use that information in there marketing.


(We are not talking about what the Pros do. We are talking about what this company is advertising it ok to do, and arms and legs do not grow back. Try and keep up next time.)

Craig, I didnít just refer to Proís doing things that are dangerous and irresponsible. Go back and read it again. My point was, where are all the Wakeworld ethics police when itís a more popular company or a magazine showing someone doing something stupid behind or in a boat? Those individuals who publish those pictures are advocating that itís ok and part of the sport. And then some stupid 20-year-old kid that doesnít have the skills like Dave (davomaddo) will go out and crack his skull trying it.
Try and keep up next time! (Just funning with you!)

The big issue is, whereís the personal responsibility. Donít blame me just because I build a boat and someone riding behind it thinks its ok to fly off a damn or jump over a bolder thatís protruding from the water and then breaks his neck doing it.

Upload
Upload
Pictures courtesy of Alliance Magazine

Iíve been surfing and wake surfing longer than most of you have been alive. (Doesnít mean Iím good) but I do believe that if I donít have the skills to keep myself out of danger, I shouldnít be surfing waves or boats that can kill or maim me. But thatís my decision; you can make your own decisions.

Here is one of Centurion's first boat that they marketed for Wake surfing! Not a bad wake! HOLD ON...WHAT THE HAY...THAT'S AN IO! Those stupid SOB's
http://waterskimag.com/article/Reviews/Ski-Centurion-Tsunami
Upload
Upload

Go out and have some fun!!

 
By rick (justcoz5) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:02 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tim,

I think that sequence of photos was done with a winch... not a boat...but I can't be positive.

If you want to talk about how a magazine takes photos of Pros doing "stupid" stuff and puts it in their magazine and therefore endorses it... that is one thing, fair enough. You might as well add TV shows like Jackass and movies like Thrillbillies into that conversation. All of those shows also have a warning message at the start telling viewers not to attempt anything they see.

Here is the difference, the wakeboarding magazines and the shows and movies are trying to entertain you, not trying to get you to mimic their behavior. They don't have the warning message at the start saying don't try these activities, and then proceed to go out and tell you to attempt everything that you see in the movie or show and tell you that it is safe.

Cigarette companies aren't allowed to say that tobacco causes cancer, and then tell you all the ways that cigarettes are good for your health.

Alcohol companies aren't allowed to say don't drink and drive, and then run commercials about how fun it is to drive 100 MPH after consumed 10 beers.

At the start of their ad, Chap says don't try these things, they are dangerous, and then they proceed to say that you can wakesurf behind that boat without even mentioning the dangers of hitting the prop. Can you see a parallel between the examples of the alcohol and tobacco example I used and the way Chap is marketing this boat?

 
By C. R. (crushing76) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 11:28 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Thrillbillies!!!! lol!!

Is that actually a show!?

 
By Trentj6930 (trentj6930) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:08 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
It is a show with Travis Pastrana and a bunch of other pro MX and bike guys. They are completely out of their minds. Check out this website.

www.nitrocircus.com

 
By Tim (the_duke) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 12:09 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
rick (justcoz5)
Personal Quote: If you have drawn blood, you know it has been a good day

I was told by the Magazines that their job was to market our product and what they can do. I read magazines for the instructional and motivating value. Like reading Guitar Player magazine and wanting to play like Eddie VanHallen or Dirt Bike magazine to find out how Chad Read handles his bike in the whoops or over the triples.

I do have to admitted it, when I try to play like Eddie, I do end up with some real serious hand cramps.

And as you stated, they do have a disclaimer at the begging of their video.

Itís all about personal responsibility, unless you voted for Obama and you feel someone else should be responsible because youíre a dump ass.

NOW go out and have fun, I am!!

 
By rick (justcoz5) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:01 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Tim,

I am glad you like my personal quote. Notice it doesn't say "never surf behind an I/O because it is super dangerous but because I want to sell a boat and make some money I think you should go ahead and try it...it sure is fun...oh and safe too."

I love how you only got that they put a disclaimer at the start of the video from my post. I believe it is a persons job to protect themselves and make wise decisions, but I don't believe it gives companies the right to market something that is potentially fatal as if it is totally safe.

I guess you think it would be alright for cigarette companies to market cigarettes as a healthy way to lose 10 pounds. Or firework manufacturers to make commercials to air during Saturday morning cartoons that tell 8 year old kids that fireworks are fun and safe and that they should go buy them and play with them in your backyard unsupervised. Gosh I guess the fact that I believe that companies have a responsibility to make a safe product for the things they promote them for means I voted for Obama... which I didn't.

Your an idiot dude.

 
By Tim (the_duke) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:12 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
OUCH!!
 
By DeltaGlassSeeker (bftskir) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:33 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Time out!

It's dumb ass not "dump ass".

And it's You're an idiot dude. Not "your".

OK, continue play.

 
By rG (canecorso) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 7:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Sounds like Tim is a hard core chap salesman... Its all good we got it Tim we will go buy a chap and chap our head, arm or leg off while wakesurfing. This is completely redicilious go have FUN while having a 80+% of looseing a limb or worse yet your life. Man I just couldnt imagine having some of my unskilled friends waking surfing that close to the prop especially when I think how we sometimes get right to the back of the boats corner edge (we have an inboard)

(Message edited by canecorso on February 13, 2009)

 
By Tim (the_duke) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:06 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Double Ouch!! Delta that was absolutely perfect! I guess it only make sense, Barefooters ski fast so they must think even faster! You got my respect.
 
By Show (bigshow) on Friday, February 13, 2009 - 8:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Correct me if Iím wrong, but I think that Tim used to be the marketing manager at Centurion and the originator of the World Wakesurfing Championship.
 
By Ken Toby (towboat_222) on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 7:10 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
Show I think your right
 
By Dan (dppaneig) on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 8:42 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
I thought it was funny when Chap used the advertising slogan in WBM last year saying "We didn't invent the wakeboard boat, we just perfected it"

Now they have definitely committed marketing suicide.

I watched the first video and had to turn it off because it is just plain lame.

I wonder how many pros are holding there tongues right now?

Classic thread and well worth the read.

 
By Kenneth (longhornfan) on Saturday, February 14, 2009 - 10:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Just wanted to add to Delta Glass's list. Loose or looser would be tennis shoes without laces. Lose or losing is what you can do with a limb in a prop or money in a bet.

Also, we need more people on youtube putting that jackass AusieMaid in his place about those Crapparalls.

 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 7:53 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
The boarish grammar on this website always makes me cringe but I usually bite my tongue.
 
By DeltaGlassSeeker (bftskir) on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 4:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
peoples need to be learned
 
By Kenneth (longhornfan) on Sunday, February 15, 2009 - 5:44 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I spend most of my time on orangebloods.com or hornfans.com. A large portion of the posters there are UT grads so you tend to see better grammar there. They actually go a bit overboard sometimes but it makes it damn near unbearable reading some of the threads here.
 
By rick (justcoz5) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:35 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
wow...can I submit my posts to you guys and have you correct my grammar? It really hurts my feelings when people make fun of my grammatical mistakes...jeez
 
By DeltaGlassSeeker (bftskir) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:47 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
rick we'll do our best

from your profile:
ummm, my board is strait garbage, anyone have a hand me down

straight not "strait"

not trying to hurt your feelings.

 
By meathead (meathead65) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 11:49 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^^^^^Hate N Pain....

um.....well, ....I think you meant "boorish".

Unless you meant folks who speak like wild pigs. Which I suppose could very well apply here.

 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:02 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Yes I did mean boorish. : ) You're are right though I think both can be applicable here on WW.
 
By meathead (meathead65) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:06 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I know....I felt some regret posting that...never want to second guess a fellow member of the "Spelling and Grammar Police".
 
By Andy Lyskowski (onthewatermo) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 12:49 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Punctuation Police here...Meathead, the proper form of an ellipsis is "..." not "...." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis)

That being said, while there is a certain assumption of risk in all watersports (and copious disclaimers), any company that holds its product out/encourages consumers to engage in an inherently dangerous activity is unnecessarily exposing themselves to excessive liability. We've tried to tell the Chap guys, "its not the product, its that isolated irresponsible marketing" but if they don't want to hear it now, I'm sure "Lefty" and "Stumpy" will be more than willing to tell them whilst sitting in the witness stand.

 
By salty87 (salty87) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:29 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
if we're being particular....it's x 2

(Message edited by salty87 on February 16, 2009)

 
By meathead (meathead65) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:43 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^^Andy,

Good catch. When one stops learning, one stops living.

Nice use of "whilst" as well.

By the way, my Badge only reads Spelling and Grammar Police, so I shall defer to your authority in regards to punctuation.

 
By Art (rallyart) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:45 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
190 posts into a discussion posted by a troll trying to sell boats and we are discussing punctuation and word use so our readers can perceive our insightful posts with alacrity.
I have always been fascinated with the evolution of on-line chat. Should I mention something about Sanger's use of wood or picklefork designs?

 
By meathead (meathead65) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:51 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Nah...the Sanger/Wood issue is too easy...let's debate how many regular posters can define 'alacrity" and use it in a sentence.
 
By Art (rallyart) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 1:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Six, I think. We could also start a poll on who is still reading this thread and how many are wondering why it is still active.
 
By David B. (dabell) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:00 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^

This thread and the Energizer Bunny have something in common.

Keeps going and going and going....

 
By Brian Kaufman (madison_boarder) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:04 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Without checking the dictionary, I believe it means "a cheerful willingness" (at least one of the definitions, I learned the word from a David Brin novel). Now, let's see if I recall correctly. 'Brian set forth on the task of defining the word with alacrity.'
 
By Hate N Pain (hatepain) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 2:05 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
I had to look it up...but I'm a better man for it.
 
By DeltaGlassSeeker (bftskir) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 4:54 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
amazing what one can learn on Wakeworld...it's always somethin'

expanding my vocabulary with words from alacrity to mooseknuckle

 
By Trentj6930 (trentj6930) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 5:25 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
^^^^^^That made me laugh out loud!! I'll bet that you never thought you would hear those words in the same sentence hey Meathead?
 
By Dave Broderick (nosebleed) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 5:34 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Best thread ever... got to laugh at some lousy marketing... and now a grammar lesson. What's next an in depth discussion of the meaning of life!!???
 
By Nick Tomsyck (sidekicknicholas) on Monday, February 16, 2009 - 5:37 pm:    Edit Post Delete Post
Chap. made this video to cause a fit.... they win!

maybe they'll get the JD power too.

 
By Ken Toby (towboat_222) on Tuesday, February 17, 2009 - 6:16 am:    Edit Post Delete Post
BOOMthe thread is dead
 

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