|I looking into buy a new Mastercraft X55. Was told list price with big block and the essential goodies is $110,000.00 What the Hell! This is almost stupid! Does anybody know the real deal? |
Lets face the truth, new boat sales are off by 70% from 2005 and 06. I was told that there is a 30% margin in list price, is this true? Is so, can I buy this boat 10% below list as a demo boat from a show? This puts the boat in the low 70's.....and is more realistic. A new 25' Cobalt with big block, SS tower and all the goodies list for $90K, so who gave MC the crown glory award? Cobalt is a far better boat anyways.
The bottom line.....I need a boat for Dad and Son. The X55SS looks like the right choice. I can take this boat out in the intercoastal or 10 miles off shore, as well as a day on the lake with my boys wakeboarding.
Any advice out there?
One last note....how does tige compare to MC?
|Butter melting......grab a cold Beer and a Tub O' Popcorn......|
|just keep in mind that most of the essential goodies can be had for a lot cheaper if you go after market.|
|IMHO you're probably spot on with the 30% margin. Keep in mind though that is a brand new boat, brand new year. They aren't going to be eager to drop their pants on it as much as say... an 07 or 08 CSX. You'll probably do much better for value for that. There is a 08 CSX 220 on ebay in Florida new (from a dealer CW in Ocala) for around 70K (a 103K list boat) |
(Message edited by bamboo on September 25, 2008)
(Message edited by bamboo on September 25, 2008)
|10% below $110k list price is $99k.....not low $70's|
|Your question: "...so who gave MC he crown glory award?" |
Answer: All those MC owners who overpaid.
|i can assure you that the X55 isn't being sold on a 30 percent margin. no one sells boats on that high of a margin right now, probably not even in the good years. if your also interested in the tiges go check them out. the new 09's are REALLY nice. There were many changes from 08 to 09 so the 08's really don't even give the 09's justice. i'm sure your local dealer in FL wont mind taking you on a demo. if you have any questions let me know. i can tell you anything you want to know hahahaha|
|Chrysler 300M is 80% the same parts as a benz... but cheaper, you know why?.... the name? |
Same deal... you're paying for the piece of mind of that name.... IMO go Moomba, tige, Supra, Epic... cheaper and 99% as good.
|who says cobalt is a far better boat? your comparing and i/o to a v-drive.|
|Nick, the 300C not M shares very little parts with the Benz if any some of it was modeled after the Benz parts i.e transmission but it is in no way shape or form close to a Benz. Your thinking of the Crossfire which was 78% Mercedes (mostly the motor) and a huge flop for Chrysler. When Daimler purchased Chrysler they did snag up some of their R&D but make no mistake their very very different. |
That said I own a Sanger because they make a great boat at a great price. Who is their pro rider? When do you see them advertising? They keep it simple. Piece of mind and MC do not exactly go hand in hand.
|If the cobalt is better and cheaper, then why dont you get it?|
|Ok...so I worked at a MC dealership before and know the markup. 30% is a rediculous markup. The dealership would be lucky to get 23%. I would say go for a demo boat or give the dealership hell. The dealership I worked at would be pumped with a 20% markup.|
|K guys here is the skinny on boat sales and margin markup on boats. |
Let me first say that I am not going to tell you what the mark up is but that there are measures in place to combat this.
If you are paying cash, the dealer can hose you in whatever way they want.
If you finance, banks will only finance a certain portion of the factory invoice.
Certain banks will grant anywhere from 110-130% of the invoice. This is to protect themselves from a defaulted loan vs the actual market value of the boat.
Say a boat invoice is 40k, this means a (at 120%), they will only lend you $48000. This means if the dealer is selling you the boat for 55k out the door, you have to come up with 7k as your down payment.
Some banks differ. They will grant 120% + sales tax. Others will grant 125-130% which includes tax, title, etc.
The more expensive the boat is, typically the lower the percentage the lender will allow.
The better the bank (US Bank, Bank of the West, Bank of America tend to the be best), the higher the percentage they will lend.
Of course, this also depends on your credit scores.
Let me just say that to make 30% profit margin on a boat is EXTREMELY HARD. I used to sell these suckers so I know a little.
(Message edited by cavlxenvy on September 25, 2008)
|Greg G, |
They are only going to make as many of those as will sell, being their first year. Looking for a smoking deal on those is not going to happen. The supply will be decreased to fit the demand, and prices on new boats will remain high.
Once you drive the Cobalt vs. the MC you will understand. V-drives are just...better.
|Never pay list. It is an absolute joke. Haggle them to death. Take 10-12% off of retail as a start. Nobody sells a boat at sticker price.|
|unfortunetly the boat market espically Mastercraft is not like you are walking into a "Big 3" or aka loss leaders and buying a truck. |
There is no factory $8000 cash back on a $40k truck......
You are buying a QUALITY boat, made from fine materials and meant to last a lifetime. All the care into the accents, cnc alum pieces all add to the price.
Mastercrafts are at par or not above Cobalt on quality.. just look deeper.
If you think the X55 is too expensive, obviously it's too much boat for you and move on. If you want a $110k boat for $70k wait 2 years for a used one or try buying something in your price range.
|New boat sales may be off in some areas, but not around here. It's simple supply and demand. MC's are in high demand. You obviously won't have to pay list for an X-55, but I wouldn't hold my breath on getting one at 70K either. I think that you could negotiate that boat down into high 80's low 90's pretty easily. Work with your dealer. |
As far as your comparison with Cobalt, they make fine stern drives, but if you go over each boat with a fine tooth comb, you will see that at the very least, they are equal.
|What is an X-55? I looked on MC's website and they list X-45, X-80 and X-star, etc. but no listing for an X-55. Is that an older model or next year's model?|
|If I were you I would go for the Cobalt, way nicer boat, then again I'm biased...|
|Never mind, saw it in the build up section for their '09 boats.|
|I hate to take a shot julliane but every MC post that comes up your on there somewhere blabbin out how dumb they are or how the owners over payed like stated above in this post. Why dont you actually get off your keyboard and ask some MC owners if they feel they overpayed. Id say pretty close to most of them are extremely happy with there purchase. I just sold an X45 and an extended warranty on it for close to 100k. It had the custom trailer w/ rims, every option, and when you consider sales tax in California, thats about what it came out to. You should meet these customers. They dumped 100k and claim it to be the best purchase and most fun theyve ever had. If your happy in a Tige fine and sorry for venting but jeez every MC post you gotta bash.|
|Dude buy the Cobalt if it's so much better and have a nice day|
|Your kids will think the MC is way cooler than the Cobalt.|
|I looked at all of the major players and the only one that I did not like was the tige. I am a weight lifter and I weigh 240 or so. The tige 22ft boat on the showroom floor looked good, but when I got in the floor flexed under my feet and my girl could feel the floor move when I walked. No way would I buy that. I looked around used for a while and saw that 30K was expected for something not too old or too ratty. I have a friend in the business that told me of a mastercraft used and at a good price at the dealership. It was the only brand I had not visited due to price. I am a science teacher and there was NO WAY I was going to buy a house for the water. Well, I got there and had known a sales guy from looking at centurions a couple of years ago, but never made a purchase. The boat that I went to look at was no where to be found, but people there knew my friend and I ended up buying a NEW boat. The boat was a previous year closeout that they wanted 70 something for, and when it was all said and done I ended up paying about 40K for it NEW, not a drop of oil in it NEW. Now the dealer invoice was 40K and they marked it up about 40%. The bank even priced it higher USED for more than I paid new. I also paid 2.3K for set up, so they could turn a buck, and financed ALL of it for a good rate. I guess I lucked out or something because these guys at the local mastercraft in Louisiana have been wonderful. They even offered to send a tech out to me for a ballast problem so I would not have to bring it in. I could not be happier, and I guess that is my point, buy what makes you happy. What? Buy what makes you happy. I spent years not being happy with my boats and I realize the importance of being happy with whatever you purchase. I have only been on this forum a little bit and I see lots of people have talked about mastercraft and all the stuff that comes with it. For me the stuff that came with it was being happy with a great boat at a (OK it was a really great price, and I probably should not mention it anymore)great price, with great customer service and a great resale value. BE Happy and buy what fits you and what you do. I also must say that to those of you that do not live in the traditional "SOUTH" the cost of living is awesome here and things typically cost a little less. Sorry.|
|I hope Julliane is reading your post. Those are the kinda experiences I tried expressing earlier. Glad your stoked off your purchase Wayne! That boat will last you forever.|
|Where do you live wayne Im moving!|
|Shreveport LA, and those guys at Bayou Outdoor are really great!|
|Also, let me clarify that I have the crossover 7, so perhaps that boat is not the most popular for everyone else BUT me. So perhaps them letting me slide out the door helped them out too. But the boat is SOLID! There is like an inch of fiberglass under the cup holders, I can put all of my weight on the cupholders and have no fear! (unlike the FLOOR of the tige) When its time to upgrade to a bigger boat, the first place that I will go is to mastercraft. Quality.|
|Thats awesome Wayne! Congratulations on the new purchase and good deal.|
|Mastercraft has gone WAY above and beyond for me AFTER the sale and AFTER the standard factory warranty expired. Thankfully I've never had anything major go wrong, but the dealer and the boats speak for themselves. |
Also, comparing a Cobalt and a Mastercraft is really silly. Especially when you claim that they're a far better boat. Sounds like you may want to get into an I/O instead of an inboard. If you were going to be primarily skiing on Seminole or Tarpon, I'd push you towards the MC, if you're primarily in the ocean AND you don't opt for the salt water engine, you're in for a lot more work.
BTW, if you're dealing with BAWS up in Land o lakes, they'll take very good care of you. They're great folks before and after the sale.
|When I say they "probably" have 30% markup I'm saying 30% markup from cost to msrp... not what they are selling it for.... |
You're not goign to get them to give away an X-55 considering afaik they aren't even in showrooms yet.
|Oh, I looked at Scott's post and was confused why he was claiming Bay area lakes. I saw the profile and you're in largo. |
Jim is not going to give away an X-55. Additionally, he doesn't have one there yet. He does have an 07 CSX 220 he's giving a good deal on.
|What a small world! It seems everybody knows everybody in this small world of wakebaord boats. |
Do I "have to" buy from my local dealer, or can I buy a new MC from any Tom, Dick or Harry in the US?
I'm NOT overly keen about selling my 250 Colbalt, but I've not taken it out once this year to fish or do anything other than wakeboard. So, what the hell.......I figure I could get the best of both worlds with an X55-SS. It has a potty (a must when you bring the itty bitty kids), it weights a good 5500lbs+ (won't get thrown out of the boat when a 34' Intrepid flys by in the intercoastal).....(or should I rephrase that and say 300 gallons of salt water won't fill my bow?), it will hold a small army (kids and adults, unlike all the other wakeboard boats), I could go off shore if I really wanted and feel somewhat secure, and I will have plenty of room for all our scuba we go to the Keys.
But I'll be damn if I pay more for a X55 than I would a new Cobalt 250. If a new Cobalt cost $92K with all the goodies, then thats all an X55 should cost.
For those that rave about stern drive, try to get your boat near the ramp on a windy day....without banging it up.
The part that gets me is when a dealer says "Hell, our business is going gang busters, where doing great this year". When in reality, new boat sales are off 32% across the board in good ole FLA. That was just the 1st, 2nd and 3rd quater...we haven't counted qtr #4. I'm in business too, and when things are rock bottom worse, would I dare say, "It's pretty rough out there, business has drop off the face of the earth". Of course not! I tell people what they want to hear (including myself)........I'M SWAMPED!
The other thing that kills me is what people want for their used boats. Give me a break!
A boat is a boat is a boat. Your going to start fixing stuff on "any" boat starting on the first day of the 12th month, regardles if you use it or not.
That's all.........I've now vented and feel so much better.
On another note......my son and I installed two 10" subwoofers with 500 watts. The kids couldn't have been more happy on Sunday.
The human race just "may" have evolved from primates, Sunday was living proof on Lake Seminole.
To all of you folks that responded to "my post" thank you, I've enjoyed reading your comments.
I still need to know what the dealer cost is on a MC. I figuring 30% margin on the boat and 50% on the options.
What do you say?
Oh yea.........one last word. When I do buy my new boat, I'm naming her "Domestic Violence".
|I would say after freight, prep and other various crap the dealer is probably making 25-30% Gross profit. If the boat is ordered from the factory with the options those should be at 25-30% GP as well. If it is an option added after the fact 50% is close. It is hard to compare the MC to a Cobalt. There are a ton of things on the MC that aren't on the cobalt. Custom tower, swivel board racks, built in ballast, perfectpass, better stereo, tower speakers, etc... I think a fair price on a custom ordered X55 should be 10% off of MSRP plus tax and license.|
|1) I'd go CSX instead of X-55 to save money and still get what you're trying to accomplish (although not the new CSX) You're not getting any dealer to come off a deal on that X-55 because none of them even have them on their floor. They want to move a boat, but you're not going to get them competing with each other on that. You may find Jim will be the only place you can go. Possibly Liquid Sports with all the stuff going on in Orlando. |
2)You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone here that a cobalt is remotely in the same stratosphere as Mastercraft or any legit inboard manufacturer.
3) Lake Seminole is too shallow, and makes me sick (even after they dredged it) - Lake Tarpon is too busy, but atleast it has enough room to let you breath and deep enough for decent wakes.
4) You can buy from other territories on close-outs; and lately with all the dealers struggling it seems like all bets are kind of off. Some will hold to the territory restrictions, and some won't depending how much financially dire things for that particular dealer is.
5) I've never really seen a Wakeboard boat owner name their boat. I guess that's just me though.
Your mileage may vary. This is just what I've experienced.
|What the hell is CSX? A railroad company or zeolites? |
They didn't dredge the lake, they cleaned up the cattail problem.
99% of US boat owners name their boat!
The side graphics on a MC makes the boat look ugly! Who am I trying to impress?
The boats for me, the wake is for the boys.
Lake depth will have little to do with a wake when it's 5' or more.
Bamboo....I sure hope your never on my boat.
Me and the 5 boys would leave your fanny in the alligator swamp.
|name it tool|
|just a question? |
I noticed in your first post you said that cobalt is a far better boat. Well, if it's a far better boat then why don't you just go get a cobalt then for cheaper? No one is making you get a mastercraft.
|Greg, it sounds like you should just keep your Cobalt seeing how it is a way better boat. |
I personally would take a Mastercraft every time over a cobalt. If you don't like the side graphics take them off. You can custom order a boat and color it almost identical to a cobalt since you love those so much.
|Keep your Cobalt.....Capt Greg, you'll impress so many more. |
No sense in buying a lesser quality boat with bad graphics
|Lets stick to the point, PLEASE. If we look at Wayne Johnson's post (which seems to be very "on topic"), we have a good 30% margin, then we seem to have an extra 10% margin for end-of-year / clearance allowance by the factory. With that said, a $115K boat should really only cost $80K, and by Nov/Dec/Jan (end of year)....It would cost 72K. |
There! Problem solved.
Sell the Colbalt 250 (get it over and cry like hell for a few weeks)...buy a 2008 X45 this winter, sell it in 12 months (too small), then go get a X55 the following winter.
Last but not least, send a picture to all you jealous posters and with a special invitation to Mr. Bamboo for a tour-de-lake-seminole.
I think maybe Big Tool
|Damn greg, |
Good luck with your search. Be it you seem to know so much about the market good luck moving that x 45 next year. You better be ready to take it on that one so you don't overprice your used boat like everyone else on here according to you. If you want the x 55 buy the x 55. If you buy something you didn't want in the first place you won't be happy and a boat that expensive is hard to move unless you lose in this economy. You would probably lose enough on the x-45 next year to have bought the 55 in the first place. my 2 cents no offense
|Damn Dave, |
Could you elaborate a little more, I'm not sure I understand. Market? Use boat? I can't figure out where your going here????
|I was just stating that in your post you say that people have their used boats priced too high. Some may but not all. You say the market is down and it is so it would make absolutely no sense to buy an x 45 when you don't want that boat in hopes of not taking a big loss on it next year. If you go new you will spend 75k on the 45. if you sell next year you may get 60k you lose 15k. You could probably get the x55 for 90. I was just saying that if you spend 75 on the x45 now and lose 15k in a year you could have spent 90 and got what you wanted in the first place understand what i mean? If you do go that route buy the used 45 to try and snag the best deal. I just said damn because everybody on here is getting all upset at you for liking your cobalt. The boats are too different animals not apples to apples at all. Good luck|
|I can tell you this...actual dealer Principles or folks who know the real margins we run on are looking at this thread and cracking up...there are so many "salesmen" out there who claim to know margin that it's scary.....not to mention the 5 or 6 different methods for calculating margin, be it gross or net.|
|When I was referring to Margin I was using the standard Gross Profit calculation. 30% GP is Cost/.70. This gives you a higher dollar margin than a 30% markup. When I was selling MC in Seattle this is how we calculated it. I think we would take invoice cost(not actual cost) add some crap called "the pack" then divide by .79, then added 1500 for freight and prep. Freight does cost something so that has to be added into cost. We may have done the GP calculation before adding the pack though. Either way it is at least 21% GP plus 2k which puts the GP % at around 23-24% on a boat that cost 50k. When I mentioned invoice cost I said it wasn't actual cost. I am not sure if there is a standard discount off invoice, but I would guess it has to do with the size of the dealer and how well the dealer negotiates. I would guess that most dealers get 3-7% off of invoice. |
This is just my best guess from me being way too worried about GP when I was selling boats.
By the way we also sold Centurions and our initial GP % used was closer to 15%. There was a lot less Margin on Centurions than MC. Thus the reason I didn't put as much effort into selling them.
Brett, I wasn't singling anyone out, nor implying that anyone was doing it wrong...it just needs to be said that there are waaaayyyy too many variables to put a margin figure out there to try and determine retail markup. As you mentioned, there is the ever popular "pack", and then different dealers figure in backside F and I, rebate, Co-op, etc.....
Dealer A and Dealer B can both sell the same boat at retail for say 65K and have the amount they put in the bank vary by as much as 4-5K, just depending on their dealer agreements and rebate structure.
|wow, off topic, Greg's posts are abbrasive and annoying, I am shocked that he got so many serious responses.|
|No sales person would ever tell you their margin or cost. I am in sales man and would never say that. I do have to think that its not as big as we may think it is. They are luxury items and do not move a ton so there has to be some decent margin unlike razor blades at the grocery. People don't get the shear cost of overhead in owning your own company and having someone on the other end that can answer a myriad of questions when I call asking details on a boat. Service etc and floor planning. We all have to keep roofs over our heads. Once again to me 50 - 100k for a ski boat is stupid but thats the price of these things and until no one is buying them and they have to drop it they will continue to sell them.|